Messages

Hi majortom!,

that was a great post thanks for sharing your insight.  I guess logically part of what you are saying is the more lucid/rational/clear-minded/less-dreamlike you are during an oobe then the less frequently you will encounter a "neg"? If so, i would say that it seems like that is a growing trend among people i have spoken to.

as food for thought though, there are quite  a few instances i can remember where i have had seemless oobes, there was no break in consciousness from the time i had begun trying to project to the time i had gotten out or gotten control of astral sight in which some "neg" was encountered and the "neg" seemingly came from nowhere as i had not suggested to myself there would be any "neg" there by projecting from a fearful place in mind. the seemless oobe are  the more clear oobes in which very little differences are seen in my surrounding environment from what is physically there and reality fluctuations dont occur too often it does feel like a near exact replica of my waking consciousness. It makes sense that the more clearheaded you are during an oobe the less frequently you will encounter a neg or even for that matter something dream-like, the waking state of consciousness that we live in normally isnt used to seeing dream like occurances so i can see how less dreamlike behaviour could carry over into some peoples oobes in which a similar state of awareness is reached.

on a side note, I have a whole book on the placebo effect which I still have to read. It's called: The Placebo Response By Howard Brody, MD

I have seen some skeptics claim that the placebo effect can account for almost all mystic practices.... while I do agree that this effect is something to watch out for I have to comment that some things just cannot be explained by this effect alone.

I agree somethings cant be explained away by the placebo effect, for example the mole removel technique in ppsd. what other examples of things were you thinking of?

go to google.com and type in failure, then hit im feeling lucky instead of search. do the same thing for weapons of mass destruction and take a close look at the page.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=570&ncid=753&e=3&u=/nm/20041123/sc_nm/life_newzealand_dolphins_dc

Scans of Monks' Brains
Show Meditation Alters
Structure, Functioning

All of the Dalai Lama's guests peered intently at the brain scan
projected onto screens at either end of the room, but what different
guests they were.

On one side sat five neuroscientists, united in their belief that
physical processes in the brain can explain all the wonders of the
mind, without appeal to anything spiritual or nonphysical.

Facing them sat dozens of Tibetan Buddhist monks in burgundy-and-
saffron robes, convinced that one round-faced young man in their
midst is the reincarnation of one of the Dalai Lama's late teachers,
that another is the reincarnation of a 12th-century monk, and that
the entity we call "mind" is not, as neuroscience says, just a
manifestation of the brain.

It was not, in other words, your typical science meeting.

But although the Buddhists and scientists who met for five days
last month in the Dalai Lama's home in Dharamsala, India, had
different views on the little matters of reincarnation and the
relationship of mind to brain, they set them aside in the interest
of a shared goal. They had come together in the shadows of the
Himalayas to discuss one of the hottest topics in brain science:
neuroplasticity.

The term refers to the brain's recently discovered ability to change
its structure and function, in particular by expanding or
strengthening circuits that are used and by shrinking or weakening
those that are rarely engaged. In its short history, the science of
neuroplasticity has mostly documented brain changes that reflect
physical experience and input from the outside world. In pianists
who play many arpeggios, for instance, brain regions that control
the index finger and middle finger become fused, apparently because
when one finger hits a key in one of these fast-tempo movements, the
other does so almost simultaneously, fooling the brain into thinking
the two fingers are one. As a result of the fused brain regions, the
pianist can no longer move those fingers independently of one
another.

Lately, however, scientists have begun to wonder whether the brain
can change in response to purely internal, mental signals. That's
where the Buddhists come in. Their centuries-old tradition of
meditation offers a real-life experiment in the power of those will-
o'-the-wisps, thoughts, to alter the physical matter of the brain.

"Of all the concepts in modern neuroscience, it is neuroplasticity
that has the greatest potential for meaningful interaction with
Buddhism," says neuroscientist Richard Davidson of the University of
Wisconsin, Madison. The Dalai Lama agreed, and he encouraged monks
to donate (temporarily) their brains to science.

The result was the scans that Prof. Davidson projected in
Dharamsala. They compared brain activity in volunteers who were
novice meditators to that of Buddhist monks who had spent more than
10,000 hours in meditation. The task was to practice "compassion"
meditation, generating a feeling of loving kindness toward all
beings.

"We tried to generate a mental state in which compassion permeates
the whole mind with no other thoughts," says Matthieu Ricard, a
Buddhist monk at Shechen Monastery in Katmandu, Nepal, who holds a
Ph.D. in genetics.

In a striking difference between novices and monks, the latter
showed a dramatic increase in high-frequency brain activity called
gamma waves during compassion meditation. Thought to be the
signature of neuronal activity that knits together far-flung brain
circuits, gamma waves underlie higher mental activity such as
consciousness. The novice meditators "showed a slight increase in
gamma activity, but most monks showed extremely large increases of a
sort that has never been reported before in the neuroscience
literature," says Prof. Davidson, suggesting that mental training
can bring the brain to a greater level of consciousness.

Using the brain scan called functional magnetic resonance imaging,
the scientists pinpointed regions that were active during compassion
meditation. In almost every case, the enhanced activity was greater
in the monks' brains than the novices'. Activity in the left
prefrontal cortex (the seat of positive emotions such as happiness)
swamped activity in the right prefrontal (site of negative emotions
and anxiety), something never before seen from purely mental
activity. A sprawling circuit that switches on at the sight of
suffering also showed greater activity in the monks. So did regions
responsible for planned movement, as if the monks' brains were
itching to go to the aid of those in distress.

"It feels like a total readiness to act, to help," recalled Mr.
Ricard.

The study will be published next week in Proceedings of the
National Academy of Sciences. "We can't rule out the possibility
that there was a pre-existing difference in brain function between
monks and novices," says Prof. Davidson, "but the fact that monks
with the most hours of meditation showed the greatest brain changes
gives us confidence that the changes are actually produced by mental
training."

That opens up the tantalizing possibility that the brain, like the
rest of the body, can be altered intentionally. Just as aerobics
sculpt the muscles, so mental training sculpts the gray matter in
ways scientists are only beginning to fathom.


See also: mindandlife.org

Hi Tristian!,

Congrats to you on the birth of your child and welcome to the forums.

I too had some serious problems with spontaneous oobe disrupting my normal sleep cycle around the same age you mentioned too. A couple of things i did to "treat" myself a little was to grab and hug a pillow upon going to sleep dont know why that helped but it did. sleeping on my stomach helped  in the begining but they  started occurring even then, my rtz/astral would roll over on its back within my physical and shoot out. Also eating right before going to bed helped sometimes, but then i would feel kind of gross from that when i woke up. What worked the best for me was to drop the topic of astral projection and everything i had associated with it, even then they still occured everynow and then but the rate at they were occuring was much less and tolerant.

A draw back from dropping the topic all together, and this may not happen to you, was that once i came back to it several of years later i would have trouble getting any results at all. This was partly due to the fact that i developed a flinch to the naturally occuring dropping sensations that would trigger the exit, and now that i am consciously trying to have oobe i still flinch, it can be frustrating. So, please, if you are interested in controlling your oobes, or decide to drop astral projection all together and come back to it later, dont  try to stop the spontaneous projections by force, mental or physical now. it doesnt really work that well as a way to stop them anyway, right?They just seem to happen wether you like it or not. you can save yourself some time and frustration in the future by avoiding developing a self conditioned flinch response. so please dont force them to stop try some of the things i wrote in first paragraph and see if it works. Im sure there are people here who can give you some good advice on this if what i said doesnt work.

im not surprised The US is not too interested. Our leader doesnt even know what sovereignty is let alone tribal sovereignty.

see this: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/sovereignty.mov

notice the laughing in the background.

http://www.kbcitv.com/x5154.xml?ParentPageID=x5157&ContentID=x59663&Layout=KBCI.xsl&AdGroupID=x5154

http://www.starofmysore.com/main.asp?type=sparklers&item=1967

Are you getting antsy, maybe the frustration is keeping you from reaching a level of mental/physical relaxation that will make it happen. Try to keep the desire/idea of projecting just on the surface of your mind or in the back of your mind. Doing this will allow you to relax into the state that oobe occur.

Up until recently i had not had too much success with rope, i figured out why  through this experience.

I had woken up to warm fluid sensations running through my body, i could move around my rtz arms and see through my eyelids but nothing else and couldnt pull myself up at will. At this point i decided to do rope and floated up very easily and freely, i was very surprised how the projection went so smoothly, no shooting out like a bullet, no drunken stooper, no spinning out and thumping on the floor no getting pulled and stretched out. For some reason i hadnt thought of doing rope from the point in which astral sight kicks in but it worked like a charm.

Up until the past few oobs ive had i had been concentrating on rope as being what will get me into the state of mind that will project me out, but it doesnt seem to work like that. I feel kind of dumb saying this because im sure its been said by those who have gone before me but getting the method to work isnt the hard part of oobe, instead it seems to be the easiest part. The "hard" (i speak for myself of course) part is getting into the state in which the exit method will work easily. when astral sight pops up its a good time to do rope anytime you can move around your rtz arms within your body doing rope is a good idea. i think most of our time when trying to project should be spent obtaining the state of mind most conductive to getting out probably through relaxing and deepening trance as much as possible.

sometime ago i had projected to dark empty space in front of a floating red christian cross surrounded in a blue circle in the background of the cross and within the circle was a very elaborate geometic pattern squares and triangles within themselves. Im not sure of the meaning of it but it was a very peacful experience. Im not religious at all so it was funny seeing the christian cross like that, i would think if i were going to see some kind of esoteric symbolisim it wouldnt have been the cross.

Hi all,
Have any of you seen any geometric designs or patterns during meditation?
If you have would you describe how they look, and if you have discovered their meanings?
Donna

I was most interested in what you said about having your OOBEs when you are "uneasy."  I'd like to hear more about that.  What kinds of uneasiness have you had OOBEs with?

what i meant by feeling uneasy was basically just feeling a little spooked. The kind of feeling you get when reading a creepy book or watching a creepy movie right before going to sleep. I think it keeps the waking part of my mind awake a little more than usual which is why i can get the projections to happen.

Maybe I'll read the exorcist and try the same thing you did?

sure if you dont mind being spooked

By the way, do you usually have OOBEs when you get to sleep late, or when you get to sleep earlier and getting a good night's sleep?

i project more often when im not tired, but there have been times when i was exhuasted when i was able to project. I project more often when well rested, at the onset of sleep and when tired, closer to around the times i normally wake up. The projections that occur when i am tired also tend to be more smooth and feel effortless, probably has to do with how physically relaxed i get when tired.

Hi EnderZ,

Something that has worked for me has been to read something inspiring about the topic right before going to sleep.

I had just watched the Exorcist with some friends, i was completely freaked out, the movie ends like a tragedy, not really one with closure. My friends didnt really help much they were even more freaked out than me. I walked by the bedroom door where they were sleeping to hear them let out a terrible shreek, they thought i was a ghost. Needless to say i started rolling on the floor with laughter, the one who was screaming the loudest is a die hard sceptic when it come to ghosts and paranormal, and i think we are supposed to be men by now, it was pretty funny to hear guys in the early twenties full of testosterone shout out so because i walked by thier door on the way to the bathroom.I started falling asleep in my firends living room but was still a bit uneasy because of the movie. Quite often i have projections when i go to sleep feeling uneasy, and expected to have a projection last night.

so, as i lay on the couch, my eyes darting left and right at the slightest movement of a shadow i started dozing off. because of the uneasiness i was able to be well aware of myself dozing off and eventually felt the deep projection like trance kick in. I feel very little projection symptoms other than the trance and a very heavy sluggish movement of my rtz body. I am now only slightly oob and was reaching out towards things in my surroundings in anattempt to get out fully. Everything i tried didnt work i was very sluggish and in a drunken stooper. As i looked around for something to grab a hold of so i could pull myself out i was approached by a heavy set woman who sat down by my side and put the weight of herself on top of me making it even more difficult. I told her i didnt appreciate what she was doing, not so nicely though, and she didnt budge she just sat there and stared blankly at me. nothing i was doing was working to get her off so i resorted to ' in the name of jesus christ leave me, get behind me and never come back" she was gone immediately. i still felt like there was something weird in my surrounding so i repeated something like that agiain this time focusing intent on clearing the room. For some reason i cant remember  what it was that i exactally said but i got immediately more lucid and was able to pull myself out very easily by imagining a rope coming down from the ceiling and pulling my way up it(a la RB).

Once out there was some candy on the table that i picked up and ate, it tasted very good, the flavour was tasted in my whole body. I slid around the living room playing with momentum, smacking through walls and trying my best to refine it so there is not so much momentum. I flet a tug and very slightly woke up to the sensation of me moving my thumb, something i do when i am in sleep paralysis to wake myself up.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20041029/D8618VP80.html

http://www.hfml.sci.kun.nl/levitation-movies.html

The objects are levitated using no energy input ie. a battery, and would levitate probably forever if left alone. This is done via diamagnetism, in which minute amounts of intrinsic magnetic properties(electrons) are expeled from the object and repeled by a magnet. more details about that at the link towards the bottom of the page.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/cda/article_print/0,1983,DRMN_36_3264139_ARTICLE-DETAIL-PRINT,00.html

this is from the kundalini support network yahoo group. i thought it was something well said about anger that yall might like reading:

I, likeyou, and like many other women, face a real dilemma when a spiritual path seems to indicate that releasing anger is necessary, especially when the spiritual work itself seems to be bringing the anger to the surface! I am wary of recommending to anyone that they let go of anger before they have really had a chance to have it and honor it. But i know. too. that i can get attached to anger precisely because it feels so good. In my closest relationships the question is always should i say something or let it go. Different answers every time. S lately ive been praying evert time i get angry aqnd this helps-- if i do choose to say something it comes from a less personally wounded place and sometimes my words are even constructive.

This is an ongoing, unfinished and extremely important project for me and I'm really glad you brought it up. ***

Dear ****, *, *** and the other private posters,

I agree. Setting up safety zones/boundaries/rules before beginning to dive into anger is paramount. I bet Angelique has some very cogent words to say about trust in potentially dangerous situations. There must be absolute trust between the facilitator and a person rediscovering their anger. I say rediscover because babes are natural at expressing raw anger. Adults, uncomfortable with anger teach children in many different ways to stifle it.

Some people will be able to begin walking the path alone. Most wont. In my own experience, my anger was trapped under something very calloused. After wearing away the callous, the anger underneath was pretty raw and I was like a kid with a new toy, cause yes, it does feel good when it is coming out.

I have had my own definite healing experiences from doing my own anger path. After one session, I walked by a mirror and stood transfixed as I stared at myself. My eyes had become very clear and bright. Since then, a lot of bodily aches and pains have left. I no longer have high blood pressure.

IMO, mastering the energy of energy is just like learning to ride a bike. It takes practice, People will fall down, have accidents, but they gotta keep gettin back up on the bike. Be circumspect in using anger as a tool of desturction ( a valid use IMO). i think this is because anger calls people into action. Anger in and of itself is not the problem. Its what people decide to do with it is.

Being irresponsible in _expression of anger is inexcusable. Such a powerful emotion can be a channel for good and for transformation. I have discovered I am never angry for the reason I think. And other people aren't angry at me for what I did. It's not my fault that they get mad. I can't make other people angry unless they hand me the power to do so. What triggers the anger is not the what appears on the surface. Normally, I feel angry when I feel afraid of loss. I feel small and helpless, or I feel less than. How dare they make me feel that way!!!!!!! Generally, anger arises out of a fear I have found. People who are angry are telling me they feel unloved in some core way. This includes me. Adults are just wounded children in that respect.

It's hard for me to get a good 'mad' going for longer than 10 minutes these days. I have to work really hard to make it last a half hour. I have become too adept at self examination and discover the core of  the anger very quickly now. THe anger is diffused almost  automatically.

THe anger burns away the old fears and reveals more of my true essence. THe anger remains until the fuel (the fears) are gone.. . until the next fear is discovered. Will I still have anger when there is nothing to fear? I think so cause this is a powerful emotion of creation.  

Don't beat yourself up for being angry. That doesn't help. If other people are offended by your emotion/energy... too bad. Don't apologize for how you feel. If they react to the energy its because they have a problem with that energy.

Again, act responsibly with this powerful energy. It's possible to be very angry and hurt no one including yourself in any way. I have seen some anger that was truly terrifying (particularly from men) and its awesome. We are powerful beings. These expressions of anger were done in a safe place with particular rules.

I learned to stand in the current of the anger and let the energy  flow around me. Its possible if I stand in nonresistance. I choose instead to become fascinated by this awesome creative/destructive power.

It feels like a hot, desert wind.

Yes, it does take practice to not be overwhelmed by the energy...like a runaway horse. Ride on top of it (surf it) and be one with and feel and respect its power until it dissipates. It does dissapte if allowed to express itself. As I have said before, it comes, its here, it goes.

In my experience, the problems and dangers come when I don't let it go. Stay on for the ride and get off when its over.
In beginning to express your anger, my first suggestions would be to discover your motivations for not getting angry in the first place.  It usually is to please someone or some credo. Ask yourself what really makes you mad. Decide what you are going to do about it. Journaling helps...screaming into the wind helps, talking with  trusted friends who love me helps. What comes up may suprise you. When I began to walk the anger path. . . the only thing I could think of that makes me mad was I didn't know how to be mad. And I couldn't say it out loud very convincingly either. I was really pathetic. So there is a lot of ground here. Put me in a room with a group of people and we could go lot further along the path than just read about it.

IMHO having awakened K is big advantage.

This path can feel very scary at first. Like riding a horse at a dead run with no reins and no saddle (been there, done that) Trust your body wisdom and your higher self to place you in an experience where there is only room for victory.

My favorite mantras for this kind of work when the Tidal waves begin to crash over me.... I *feel* afraid and I *am* safe... Remember to breathe. Holding your breath blocks the release of energy.

Hope this helps.

Susan

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=573561

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/news/nation/9949251.htm

thank you adrian for all your hard work and patience. The forums look and act great.

Thanks for the feedback Nita,

I can see what you mean when you say that core images dont have to be soley related to one specific incident. will i expect as i go deeper that related incidents will peel away towards what could be an original attachment? this original attachment could act like the heart, or source, of the connecting veins of thought. It seems it would work that way.

Yea that word biro confused me, i didnt remember seeing that it in psychic self defence. i used a circle with a cross in the middle as well.

heres and example of the kind of stuff they do at the tracker school:

a picture of one of the instructors
https://www.trackerschool.com/ASBilly.cfm

i fixed the link