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Hey Beedeekin, you must have been busy lately, huh? No doubt in my mind that these punks did this. I can only express my outrage and disgust at what they have done for so long. I see no gov plot in initiating the bombings, that's not paranoia, that's delusional. I do see the gov taking advantage of any situation to pass and enact legislation that they couldn't get done without these tragedies though. That might be paranoia as well but that doesn't mean it's not true. Actually, that's case history. Bushy Jr. used it to get his Patriot Act.

I saw on shot that had about fifteen Humvees rolling down the road. They are national guard and their primary role is to assist in natural disasters and damage control in peacetime but when used in conjunction with Blackhawks and armored vehicles, it certainly appears to me a military state. I'm sure drones were overhead the entire time though I have not heard that.

And you're right, the po-po sure looked like the army to me. Something is amiss and I'm not talking about the baddies either.

If they don't hurry up and read that chump his rights, we're goners. The precedence that this sets is scary as hell. I don't care if there is not another attack any where in the world, if we trade our freedom for security, they win.

Dramatic much? Yeah...True? I'm afraid so...

The available literature for this stuff has changed dramatically in the last 12 years or so. I think it has a lot to do with the internet, actually.

If you were looking for information on projection prior to 2000, it was always couched in a vehicle of mysticism, and for good reason. The most authoritative works on the subject have always been, until very recently, ancient Hindu and Buddhist texts. Small spurts of research have gone on intermittently, and are starting to gain enuogh rigor to replace these earlier sources, but still not entirely. Knowing terms like those, albeit outdated ones, helps to navigate the waters of available information.

Although admittedly we also now have a harvest of new-age terms which have little to no meaning thrown into the mix too  

That makes sense. In 2001, I was looking for a simple method that wasn't steeped in mysticism. I was at one of the largest university libraries in Texas and only found one out of about thirty texts that simplified the process enough. Everything else read like this in ways but not nearly as confusing. Admittedly, it's only confusing because I don't prescribe to the teachings enough to learn them but even if I did, man...that's one heck of a headache.

I wish I could remember who the author was. But if I remember correctly, it was still mystic in nature.

I have to ask. Are you serious about this?

A silver chord, not to mention that it can be cut
spiritual possession.
astral vehicle or body located in the solar plex then will your spritual self forward.
fifth ray of consciousness.
fourth ray of vibrations.
astral umbilical chord.
prana abridged electricity bond that intercedes between your astral crown chakra and the brain force-center
Ethereal aura-absorption, ethereal-aura melding and ethereal withdrawal....................................................................

What does this stuff mean? Where did you get it from? It reads like someone has melded all the beliefs and competing theories about AP and tried to make them all work together, which failed IMO.

This needlessly over complicates things. Way over, I mean this goes out of it's way to sound confusing. Nevermind the ridiculous arguments over possession.

So, again, you can never 'let go' of the physical, because phasing is passive, you need to be focused on something else all together.

Can you expand a little more when you say that we can never let go of the physical? I understand what you mean when you say that phasing is passive. We can't meditate and focus on phasing because that's neither, that's thinking (the arch-enemy of projecting). 

I can swallow, scratch an itch, hear an external noise, etc. but a thought about breathing screws me up. For some reason, I have to check if I'm still breathing, as silly as that sounds (that's why I know that water-boarding is indeed torture). I've even considered figuring this out during a projection but it always loses it's importance to me once I've projected.

Thanks.

I'm glad you pointed that out AS. Do you have to remain focused on your physical up until a certain point and then project or it it constant attention the whole way through?

Only you know what works for you but I'm inclined to think that you have noticed some subtle physical indicators that let you know your really close and then you are able to rapidly shift your attention away from the body. You would get this ability from paying good attention to detail and remembering the physical feelings that are different from failed attempts.

I know that some people like to focus on their breathing the whole time but that has never worked for me. I absolutely must turn my attention away from my body.

Whatever the case, you're a great example in proving that no one size fits all.

The Illuminati were a real group at one time but if they still exist, they surely call themselves something different nowadays. When world domination is the goal, holding on to a name for the sake of tradition that holds an immensely negative stigma, isn't considered prudent.

The original group wanted to fight against superstition, religion and plain old ignorance which they correctly believed were holding the world back. They believed that this could be done with science. Legend says that they became corrupted, as is always the case when rich guys form an elitist group. It's ironic that people think the rich and elite can start any group and not be corrupt from the start but that's a different story.

With such lofty goals, organized religion was bound to take notice and fight them. No one is more capable of "evil" than holy men as Dan Brown said.

There are no reliable records (that I know of) that suggest the group is any older than a couple of hundred years, give or take a decade or two. With so much legend and lore attached to the name though, fiction takes it back to the birth of Christ as some plot from the devil.

Look into Alex Jones. He believes the Bildeberger (SP?) Group and the new world order are their current equivalent. He can make a lot of sense at times but he generally comes across as a raving lunatic and the message gets lost.

I think it's best to "fix" ourselves and leave the big boys to the task of stopping a new world order. I can barely remember which bill is due and when. I don't have much hope in ferreting out and keeping track of global plots. It's hardly even interesting fiction anymore.

i guess in the strict sense of the words but this isnt darkness

I agree. I don't even believe in that. I take it to mean that doing something wrong to stop something that is wrong isn't any better. Two wrongs don't make a right...that kind of stuff.

I'm waiting to hear more about the Saudi.

Why do you think this was an entity?

I know you said that you felt it and you heard feet running really fast but remember that we are vulnerable to our thoughts.

I'm not questioning your recall but our minds are so analytical that they will create false memories and sensations in order to make sense of something we don't understand, especially during a projection. This is because of our egos need to understand everything.

What you describe suggests some sort of attack and that's doubtful. I've never had that occur but then again I have felt some weird things. I just never assumed or placed the cause to be from something outside of me. But I also don't seek those experiences out and that could make a huge difference.

Welcome.

I have no idea what to say about your friend but that's not your concern anyhow. You want to know if AP is real. It's as real as your friend is.

Go ahead and give this a try. There is nothing to lose. You already know how to lucid dream so the experience we call projecting is only a thought away.

The next time you find yourself lucid in a dream, take the time to gain even more awareness. You can do this by questioning things that are odd in your dream. For instance, I often dream about people I know only the character portraying them in my dream is not the real person. This always catches my attention but I don't always stop to question why. Do this and you will gain more awareness.

From that point, just think of where you want to go, who you want to see, and what you want to learn. Just know that the answers aren't always what we expect. Actually, they rarely are.

Good luck and read more around the site.

Xanth is not shamelessly promoting his book. He's right. Read it and you will have a clear understanding of what phasing is.

Xanth, when should I expect my check? 

I agree with both Stillwater and Mr.flip. I wouldn't go as far as to call anything man does as sacred but the rights we have in America are a shining example to the rest of the world. At least they were. Now we are an example of how fear and grandiose ego can erode even the strongest of nations.

I believe there is enough substantial evidence against this guy and there is plenty of reason to believe that he has info that can be useful. But if we are willing to step on one citizen's rights, we are willing to step on all of our rights. I don't care that this man has only been a citizen for one year. Citizenship is citizenship. If we start saying "yes, but", anything after but can be applied to any one of us for any reason. Maybe not tomorrow but....

When Sen. Ran Paul did his filibuster against the DHS using armed drones to patrol US territory, many people said this was just a publicity stunt to gain recognition. Atty. General Eric Holder said that they would only be used in extreme circumstances that we can't even imagine as of yet. I believe he was referring to something even more extreme than Boston but I still disagree. I know that these guys are extremist and they want us to "drown in a sea of blood" but if we wish the same upon them, we're not just losing, we have lost.

So long as we make decisions out of fear, the punks are winning. Plain and simple. The punks don't need America to fall as a super power in order to win. All they need is for the rights of it's citizens to be eroded like any other despot nation.

There are no easy answers. MLK said that you can't drive away darkness with darkness. Does anyone disagree?

For "it's all bad" who asked about why I see "seeing things in actual world in actual time" would be the most fantastic thing about it is just because it's supernatural and yet REAL! And what exactly do you mean discover who am I?!

I believe I am who I am in real life, but would you please explain specifically how my self discovery in the astral world would affect my real world?

That's easy. This can affect your "real" life by working through your fears. Whether we admit it or not, our fears control us. You seem to be a skeptic (that's good, only a fool would believe many of our claims without firsthand experience).

The only claims I make that I want you to believe without experience, is this: If you keep an open mind, you too, can have these same experiences and see for yourself. You do not have to come to the same conclusions. In fact, most of us still keep an open mind and our beliefs are still evolving.

At the least, you can have pretty awesome dreams. At the most, your life will change for the better. You will lose many of the fears that hold you back. Everyone fears something and they can work through it during a projection. In fact, there's hardly a choice in that matter.

Proving all of this is one of the first concerns that you will let go of. You will see how easy it is to prove to yourself while being impossible to prove to someone else at the same time.

All your validation questions have already been answered countless times through the links that Volgerle gave you. I don't know if you read them or not but there's nothing else we can say about this that can prove anything to you.

Besides, all those stories shouldn't prove anything to you in the first place. Again, without personal experience, only a fool would believe any of this is more than a dream.

I'm asking you not to place any limitations on a dream until you have seen for yourself. It takes a lot of work though. You have to work through your beliefs to understand.

I don't think your trolling. I think something is telling you to wake up and pay attention but your belief and fears are telling you this is junk. You have some work to do. If you can't see how working through your fears will help you in your "real" life, you have a lot of work to do.

Good luck and I hope you choose to explore. We're all here to help should you choose to do so. Hopefully you have already read about some of the techniques and have started your personal journey. If so, please ask about any questions or concerns you have.

Are dreams real?

They are certainly real experiences. We all have them. The only thing that makes the difference is between a projection and a dream is our awareness.

Someone said (I forget who) that dreams are like a box. We need to open that box and look inside. The worst that can happen is that we are entertained with nonsense. The best that can happen is that we can discover who we are. I'll open that box every time.

I believe that you said "visiting" people during a projection in actual time is the best there is. Does that really sound better than discovering who you are?

That's not an easy journey though. We have to work our way through a maze that has wall after wall constructed by our beliefs and expectations. Sometimes the only way to get past a certain wall is to butt heads with it time after time. Then we can finally get a glimpse and see what's on the other side and that's usually another wall.

I think it's people being jealous or envious of others who have more materialistic stuff and come up with this stuff to makes themselves feel better.

Mostly it's just silliness.

The sentiments expressed here sound eerily close to Ted Kazinzky's magnus opus. You know, the unabomber.

They're evoking some sort of public safety clause that says there is substantial evidence that establishes guilt and intent to do more harm and the suspect must be interrogated as quickly as possible. This clause also allows for the punks statements to be used against him even though he was not mirandized.

While I do agree, this is more evidence that the US is eroding and the punks are winning. If I was a conspiracy theorist, I would think that the gov will use this to come up with more emergency actions to take our rights by exploiting our fears.

Hello SCS.

First and foremost, I am not trying to tell you what to believe. I am only telling you what I believe and why.

I completely 100% categorically deny the existence of demons. When I reply to these type of posts, I usually leave a little wiggle room so as not to directly confront the beliefs of others. However, when I see young teens such as yourself being tormented about this stuff, it upsets me. That's because I see a little of myself in these posts, not to mention that I once promoted these ridiculous ideas.

Evil is just perception. It is our way of trying to understand how some people can do certain things while it disgusts most of us. We don't like to believe that mankind is capable of "evil" on our own and therefor, there must be some outside force working.If there was no outside force, that would mean that we were are capable of doing these heinous acts. Well, sadly we are and it takes very little. All it takes is fear and we can behave irrationally and in unimaginable ways.


If you are worried about changing your Christian beliefs, then you need to think about it. Look at Christianity for the beauty of it and decide if that rings true for you. If it does, then embrace it and you can find some peace. If you turn to Christianity because you think you need it's protection from some inhuman evil force, you will never find the peace you seek. Sadly, most of the the church is more than happy to entertain this fear so that you will remain a Christian. Some denominations do not dwell on the evil aspect but they are becoming rarer.

Life is hard and there is too much that is beyond our control. Does it make sense to you that a loving god would punish you eternally because you choose to find your own spiritual path and become a good person?

In fact, some will tell you that I am a demon or at the least, demonically influenced for telling you this. They are just covering their bases to make those of us with similar beliefs "Protesteth too much". In other words, we are denying the existence of evil in order to trick you. Whatever.

Start focusing on the beauty of life instead of watching these silly movies. They are not scary to me because they are no more real than cartoons. Do you get scared watching looney tunes? I doubt it.

Have you tried talking to your parents about your fears? I hope they can give you some insight.

I could continue with other philosophies but I think you get the point. Anyways, I'm here to talk about astral projection, not religion or philosophy.

Hi 2fly.

William doesn't mean any of this to be taken personally. I enjoy "butting heads" with his theories myself, so when you read and reply on a thread under the forum heading of religion and philosophy, understand that there is a chance that your beliefs will be challenged. Now when the topic heading is something like, "Hello, I'm Christian and would like to hear from other Christians." Then any reply that challenges Christianity is just trolling and is useless.

This thread was started wanting to know what people thought about God in general.

I personally enjoy these discussions but history proves that this is always dangerous.

It's all about perception but no natter how you look at it, this was horrible and wrong.

The Massachusetts' holiday "Patriot's Day" is a good example. They were called evil, rebels, and considered the same as terrorists from the British view. No good or evil in play.

Just depends what side your on and who gets to write the history books, usually the winner.

It's no consolation but tragedies like this always bring out the best in people as well.

Hi arkrain.

I watched that video and it was interesting to watch him fall apart. Well, more like sad.

The truth as I see it as that you find what you look for. The best advice is to go into all of this with an open mind and a good intent. An open mind doesn't mean that you are willing to drop all your beliefs before you go "in" and come out with new ones that are just as concrete and stubborn as you were before. You should always be evolving.

Well, the problem is that we can trick ourselves. We are proud of ourselves for dropping old beliefs that we now accept as being obviously false and naive and congratulate ourselves for accepting something new that was previously out of our ability to comprehend.

This doesn't mean that we are enlightened. It just means that we are in danger of believing something that may be false or naive.

Anything that can be imagined, can be created. Anything that can be created, can be seen. Anything that can be seen, can be believed. Anything we believe, can be wrong.

Just because these beings were not in fact his "higher self", why is the only alternative left is that they are demonic? What is that? To me is that is proof of not evolving and sticking to old beliefs. Nothing changed in the first place. He tricked himself.

He knows that everything is not sunshine and puppies yet he believes the only alternative is darkness and snakes. I see no need or use for demons to exist objectively. I can easily see how a consciousness that does not evolve and therefore devolves tries to take on these different persona but they are just like you in essence. They have an origin that they can't comprehend and are probably further away from the comprehension because of their devolution. They may know how to manipulate energy more than you do but that doesn't mean that they have power over you. Keep in mind that they may have had the same intent at some point and time, developed their powers and weren't ready for them. Keep in mind, This could all be a croc.

That's my take on an open mind.

Having a good intent doesn't meant that you want to spread love and work for world peace. It just means that you are willing to be humbled.

Sure, developing "gifts" to heal and help others is great but if you go looking for that, you'll accept it from where ever you can.

Let it come. Develop the abilities yourself and know that they weren't gifts because you accepted nothing that you didn't already have. Do that and you can only blame yourself for the bad that can come of it and you can truly be proud for the good as well. That way, no credit needs to be given to some objective evil or good. All you have to do is be open to the possibility and your mind can be blown. Rush the matter and your mind can be tricked.

Fire can kill but that doesn't make it evil. It has revolutionized our lives for the better but that doesn't make it good. That just makes it fire.

He really said it all in the end. He stated that these demons are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, what they were created for then says that this is not right. How can something be wrong if it is just doing what it is supposed to do?

Stop lying to yourself is great advice. Stop believing that you finally have it figured out is even better advice. He believes that he finally figured it out. That's sad.

I certainly went into this knowing about demons and even feared that but I never once saw the proof of their objective existence. The same is true about dimensions and dimensional beings. Everything I saw, I just saw it. I didn't necessarily believe or dismiss it.

If you want to save the world, get ready to fail. If you want to learn, get ready for that.

I used "you" a lot but only in the abstract.

Good luck.

I wonder what else is possible?

Just lose your expectations. Any sort of success that doesn't match your initial expectations will cause you to question and then ultimately, dismiss the experience.

I think a lot of beginners really have low expectations. They think at best, it will be an amazing dream. Well,  even your best dream up to that point doesn't come close to feeling real. That's because you feel disconnected in a regular dream. You don't have your full awareness. Any situation in this physical reality that we don't have our full awareness, be it from drug/alcohol use or a knock to the head, will feel the same way when recalled.

How real do you think anything is when you don't place your full awareness on it? That's where questions like, "If a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?" come from.

Now imagine how hard it is to visualize a non physical experience that feels just as real as a physical experience while we are dividing our attention on both. You have to lose all your physical awareness to understand how a non physical experience can be just as real.

You only think you suck at visualizations because you are still focusing on something physical.

Good luck.

Just a hint to all that question what is happening to them. If your eyes are closed and you are asleep and anything occurs where you are outside of your bed not sleeping, then that is known as a Conscious Non Physical Reality experience and yes you are successful.

Perfect.

Welcome.

Nothing went wrong. You got scared and that's natural. You'll work through that if you want to have better experiences then floating around your bed. But even that's pretty damn cool.

Working through this fear is one of the great benefits of having OOBEs.

My advice is to pre-pick a destination until you get comfortable. Leaving this decision up to a "higher" cause can be the last thing you expect. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that.