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I have visited different realities in my dreams, but there are these.... guys ,, that seem to dislike me being there.

Don't worry about those guys. They are just politicians and leaders of the different religions that don't want you to find out the truth for yourself. You'll be alright.

Wow! You had a lot going on there. I think we all feel the need to prove our strength when we are in a new experience and you waited until the right time. I can't understand why this girl judged you as weak by your cover when your cover is pretty dang intimidating as it is. She probably had the school yard mentality of having to prove herself to the others.

Little did she know that you had the gangsta prison style ability of whooping butt when pressed.

But maybe the girl tested you to see if you could handle the retrieval of the rat people. Sorry. but I'm laughing...saving rat people...sorry, still laughing.

It comes with practice and time. Instead of being disappointed that you only get two minutes of lucidity, be grateful that all your work and intent is starting to payoff.

We tend to get frustrated over little advancements when in actuality they are great milestones.

And don't think of it as getting there. You have already arrived!

Eventually I had to agree with you - because it was the same response I was getting from a variety of individuals from different and sometimes even opposing povs...even from hard line sceptics - so all these different aspects who don;t normally agree with each other, agreed with each other on the point that human beings are not going to get their act together and wise up and create a workable plan of action.

This doesn't have to be a bad thing just because it is true. In order to grow, we need to experience all the pain and suffering. Without these experiences, a consciousness has no way to relate.

How can we know what it means to feel really good if we do not know what it means to feel truly bad. A utopian world may be great for those currently existing in a physical form but they are being shortchanged on experiences need to grow.

Just to be clear, I do not have any idea of who or what God is or isn't. I understand why we as humans have formed the idea of there being a God but it has not served humanity as a whole, any real good.

Somebody or something created all of this but I don't think that necessarily makes them a God just like I don't believe my parents are God's for creating me physically.

And as far as identifying with being human, I don't see that as a bad thing. What's the point and how can we grow and learn if we don't identify ourselves with our current form.

You see it as settling for less, I see it as owning up to my end of the deal.

We are GOD.

Now all that is required is for you to work that out to the point where faith is no longer required.

Start with the fact that in order to have ANY kind of identity, you need Consciousness.

Work on what it is about your sense of self identity which insists you are not (or cannot be) GOD.

I think I agree with you. If you mean that we collectively form God, then yes I agree. But God as an abstract singularity has all the power concentrated and I will never be able to identify myself as having all that power concentrated in myself. It is proven everyday that we as individuals have no real control over anything. Control, like the physical world is just an illusion.

thank you and sorry you had to move my thread. Would you advice having another atempt before bedtime or is it not wise?

As long as you think you can relax, there is no wrong time to try. But understand that if your are too stressed over something and can't clear your mind, you will most likely not succeed at that moment.

Success comes when the belief that it will happen is stronger than the disbelief.

From personal experience I wouldn't recommend messing around with kundalini. let it raise naturally through spiritual practice is the safest way.

From my experience, any approach from a religious or belief system can be a hindrance unless someone is already well versed in the matter.

I'm not saying that it is a bad thing but it may all be too much foe a beginner if they think they have to learn all the spiritual teachings before they can have an OOBE when an open mind is all that is needed.

[Excellent Analogy IAB! Wow, it's already up on Youtube. Here's the link if you wish to listen to it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F599aF5Njo]

Excellent Analogy IAB!  

Wow, it's already up on Youtube. Here's the link if you wish to listen to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F599aF5Njo

Thanks for the link. I will have to give it a listen.

In accounting there is a enhancing qualifying characteristic of measurement called 'verifyablity'. It is defined as:consensus amongst peers.
Remember, we are just evolved monkeys typing on basically 26 keys, and through the phenomenon of verifyability(alongside comparability & understanability), we are able to communicate to one another to a certain extent. This entire notion of understanding the reality the last sentence denoted is purely a subjective experience you just had in itself.

...yet it works...

So, Just remember to play nice and understand the constraints of semantics we all share on this forum.

Remember, most to all of the pain aliviating tests for Advil and Tylenol are based off of subjective research methodologies.

This forum is the perfect place to LOOK for verifyability, not contest it.


Cheers,
Contenteo

Fair enough.

That is likely why there is not really plenty of proof out there that many of the things called "supernatural" do actually exist.

Yep. That's exactly why there really is plenty of proof that exists. Because so many people are finding ways to gather objective evidence to support the subjective experience.

Don't forget. In the American judicial system, somebody saying that they saw something is considered evidence that something occurred. Sadly, it is all that's needed in some cases.

But it seems as though you may have a subconscious need to counter every statement or point that someone makes. It's understandable but I'm not trying to prosecute anybody in a court of law nor am I trying to convince someone to see things as I do.

Thanks again. You may be the reincarnation of Mr. Steinbeck after all. But that's meant as a compliment.

[SAID]

Well I am not agreeing or disagreeing really.  Just sharing my own observations and in relation to evidence, I simply know that subjective experience does not count as objectify-able proof.

Yeah, that's the point i was trying to get across to Menex. The proof that is out there is mostly all subjective but it is very compelling. So I was pointing out that this is something that must be seen to believe and know for yourself.

If ten people say they like the color blue, then it is only an objective fact that they SAID they like the color. No one can prove that they do or don't in fact like it regardless of what they say.

Menex's skepticism is only natural and is actually good in my opinion. He has indicated the desire to have an OOBE but too much doubt can close one's own self off to that possibility.

For years, I never even considered the being helping me all the time as a guide. I wonder why the same ones always help out though. I have three different beings that I would consider a guide but one is the most dominant.

All my RTZ OOBE's are always the exact same time as it is day or night, except for the ones that occur in the past. The ones in the past may not count as a RTZ projection though but they still take place here on earth.

During an OOBE, I have never had the setting change from day to night or vice versa, at least not that I can recall.

If I had a nickel for every flying astral entity I've seen captured in a photograph, I'd have... zero nickels.

I don't know why but I think that is hilarious.

Thank you Will. You have an unusual talent of agreeing with the post that you are arguing against. The ability to pull this off is quite rare and is normally found in the work of some of the great literary masters.

You remind me of John Steinbeck and "The Grapes of Wrath" in particular.

If you uploaded the pic, why don't you show it to us.

Astral Projection and OOBE are the same thing. The term astral just has some belief system behind it. People like me, who do have any particular belief systems just usually say OOBE

Menex, there is already plenty of proof out there that many of things we call supernatural do exist. Skeptics always find fault with the results because they tear apart the studies. Many scientists in these fields use standards that are way beyond the accepted level used in other sciences in order to call something true.

Healthy skepticism is good and needed. Skepticism in the face of logic and proof is just stubbornness brought on by a cultural belief.

So without doing this for yourself, there is nothing in the world that you can look at and decide that this is real. You have to do it yourself to believe.

I've actually read a few thinks about Dr. Parnia and he absolutely believes in an afterlife although he is uncommitted to what it actually is.

He read a few studies where people reported that they floated above their bodies during surgeries and such and some said they could actually see above the ceiling in the crawl space where the wiring and ac ducts run. This gave him the idea about placing photos and other things up there to see if the people who made these claims could report back on them. Other doctors already had the same idea in one form or another.

Of course many people do not have RTZ experiences and so their cases would not apply but he has gathered some convincing data.

When someone tells me they have been trying to AP for four years and they haven't, I think they are lying to themselves. In other words they aren't trying as hard as they say they have.

If you want to have an OOBE then the reason why has to be important to you. You sound like the type of person where no proof is enough and this is a very powerful blocker in the mind.

I also doubt the people who say they can conjure spirits on command.

I think your best way to have an OOBE is through a lucid dream. Learn how to do that and your belief in it will raise a notch or two. Then you'll become more open to the idea and may then start to have an OOBE through phasing.

Good luck.

I want to second Mrs.'s Fox request.

Yeah Equin, but after you have had a few of your own experiences, you'll see that prophetic "visions" are quite common only that many of us are quite helpless in trying to affect the outcome. Just always keep an open mind and you'll start to see that there is so much more than you ever imagined.

So please stick around.

The wonderful one is coming home tomorrow. In a call she wondered if she had to catch a bus. What a laugh that was. I told her not a chance in hell. I will pick her up in the afternoon after the docs final examination. We are all really happy for her now.
Apparently a bad virus and an irritating asthmatic attack caused the major problem. It appears over as the conversation lasting forever proved she's back as herself.
I must thank everyone for the support and aid during this stressful time. I can't say enough, really.
I also would like to especially thank Chopstickfox for the music I've recieved. It kept me sane in all of this. I reflected the feelings in the songs to how I was inside. They are amazing and I hope the world recognises her amazing talent.
Thank you all.

Szaxx during this rough time for you and your family, you still manged to help all of us along our journey and I want you to know that although we always value your expertise, you should us all how to handle a personal crisis and still hold your spirits high. I did not want to say anything early but I was sure that there could have been no other outcome for a special daughter.

hello. Sorry I just have a hard time believing that.

I understand. But there are many posters here that wouldn't lie about their experiences. This is very important to many of us and wouldn't lie about our personal experiences because of the stigma that is already attached to all of this.

But hey, Even if you are a skeptic, we would very much welcome your thoughts so long as they are not disrespectful. Anyways, please feel free to tell us about why you feel this way. If you are interested in finding out about this for your self, we would be more glad to help you.