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I notice my eyes tend to drift downwards and to the left so I just let them and that becomes my focus.

I noticed my eyes do something similar too. I wonder if this has playing havoc for me as I was trying to keep eyes "slightly up" as suggested in some threads. Makes sense now that I could have been putting too much attention on the damn eyes. I will see where this goes instead.

Truth is you stank so bad your astral was just gasping for fresh air.

Reading AP experiences are so interesting, yet so frustrating for me wanting these experiences lol. Anywho, 25 years...wow, bravo for keeping at it!

Well ok, I'm 44 years old this year and I'm finally at the point in my APing where I can AP whenever I want. That's to say, if I feel like going out I can always get out of my body without problems. This has been about a 25 year journey for me because I started reading about astral projection when I was around 18. It's so cool to be at this point and be able to explore and experiment.

My best advice on how to do it is to watch yourself falling asleep. The more you do it the more easy it gets. You'll begin to feel heavy and then misty as the lights slowly dim in your brain. The trick is to keep watching yourself fall asleep. Otherwise, there comes a point where lucidity will just stop and you veer off into the void.

Your suggestion is straightforward, but I hope you don't mind a few more questions. 25 years is a long road so I would think there's more to share regarding the practice.

Before bed, are you doing anything else, like meditation? Mantras?

Nowadays the typical suggestion is to make these attempts after about 4-6 hours of sleep when rem sleep increases (this is called WBTB wake back to bed). Get the deep sleep out of the way, then try. However, it sounds like you do this right when you go to bed at night?

With the advice you give of watching ourselves as we fall asleep, do you have any other tips? Are you really just watching? No internal dialogue or what I call an "anchor"  to aide you mind from falling asleep (examples include repeating a mantra, counting, or imagining a scene)?

That also happens to me (awakening automatically especially if I take my meds early [5 - 6 pm]). I need to know some beautiful places to visualize it's for a research project called project Elijah at obe4u (I don't want to link to it because some dislike the obe4u method). I'm on a technique where you awaken 2 hours before your usual awakening time and try to visualize taking action in something for 5 to 10 minutes.

Thanks.

http://www.astralpulse.com/astralpulseisland.html

I heard something walking outside of my bedroom window in the middle of the night so I went out to see what it was (sometimes small animals roam around our house but this didn't sound like an animal) and I saw a little creature that scared the crapola out of me. I recorded it and uploaded to youtube, check it out and tell me what you think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxfOoKB8ouU

Weird this was added to a YT account called "Awesome Life Videos" ...just in time for this scary video? Oh wait, this is interesting...3 days earlier, you uploaded a vid with arms ripping off that advertises its been edited with After Affects visual cinematic effects software. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MRta20Jrkk
It is all just coincidences Im sure!    

It's never been a secret that Frank died... how or when.  He made it quite clear in his last several posts.
I made mention of the thread in the admin forum before as well.

There are a few people out there who think it was all a ploy anyway.
Some people just love a good conspiracy...

In the end if he's dead or if he's just hiding... it doesn't really matter.  He doesn't want to be here.  End of story.
The end is the same. 

When did you become a moderator?

  Plasma, the words you use just make me CRINGE while reading. Need, Require, Push....wow, just wow.

[make less movements]

Luffy,

You told Raduga that you have a hard time going back to sleep after only being awake for 5 minutes. So, he tells you to try to stay awake for less than 5 minutes instead!

It means, to try staying awake for less than 5 minutes. Try 0 to 4 minutes.

Try:
- Stay awake for 4 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for 3 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 2 minutes. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
- Stay awake for less than 1 minute. Can't fall asleep? Reduce time...
Understand? Any time LESS than 5 minutes.

When Raduga says "..., make less movements" he means to try to stay as still as possible. This is where your auto-shut off alarm helps. REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF BODY MOVEMENTS YOU MAKE TO A LITTLE AS POSSIBLE.

Crazy how it takes a paragraph to explain the most simple of things. 

[Alarm Clock Xtreme]

Which app can I use to do this technique? And also how do I set the app to turn off after a certain time?

Thanks.

I gave you an app suggestion only 5 posts up! I feel I am being pranked!  One more time dude, pay attention...
Alarm Clock Xtreme (by avg labs)
Download:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.alarmclock.xtreme.free&hl=en_US

And here is there support page on how to use it:
https://support.avg.com/SupportArticleView?l=en&urlName=AVG-Alarm-Clock-Xtreme-FAQ&q=Alarm+Clock+Xtreme+FAQs&supportType=home

You want to set the alarm for auto-shutoff.

[Don't move! Keep eyes shut.]

Could you or anyone else interpret his comment and tell me how to do the Raduga technique with the alarm he recommended?

Thanks.

1. Program the app alarm to make the sound after 4-6 hrs of sleep (or, however many hours after falling asleep that works for YOU). Maybe do a test to find what sound and how long the sound plays before you go to bed.
2. Also set the alarm to auto-shut off, so you don't have to move to turn it off.
3. When it is bed time, set your alarm and go to bed.
4. Sleep.
5. During sleep, you will hear the alarm go off. Don't move! Keep eyes shut. The alarm should turn off automatically if you set it up right!
6. Perform Raduga technique.
7. Do same steps 1-6 for any days of the week you want to try.
8. Do not change technique for at least 1-2 months.

I also got a reply on this forum

https://www.forum.obe4u.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&p=22847#p22847

the person said

"Other option , different from the above, you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring. When you are waken by the alarm , apply the indirect method routine immediately. Try your best to stay motionless and do not open your eyes . If motion accidently happened, just try to do the cycling for 4 round."

I don't know what they mean by "you can use the alarm which can shut down immediately by itself after ring"?

Thanks.

He means an alarm app that makes an alarm sound then auto shuts off without you pushing anything on the phone to turn off. All I did was search the reddit LD sub because that question is asked a lot. Alarm Clock Xtreme by AVG Labs is suggested a lot for this purpose. You can program it to sound for X seconds and auto shut off it sounds like. I have iOS so I can't even endorse that app, just giving you one.

Thanks,
I'm going to try the Raduga technique instead. Could've done it last night because I had school canceled because of a snowstorm.

Thanks.

I didn't say abandon what is working.    I said there are options to try while using SSILD. I hope that is what you mean. If you're having some success, then run with that man. Consistency is what you need right now.

[While many users report successful LD/OBE induction from the waking state]

Hi,
Last night I set my alarm to awaken me after two and a half hours. The alarm didn't awaken me and I ended up awakening after 4 hours. I did the SSILD technique and was partially lucid in a dream. I ended up talking to a dream character and the dream then ended. I also recalled 5 or 6 dreams and had subsequent awakenings. Any advice on how to obe with the SSILD technique?

https://www.thelucidguide.com/Techniques/Senses-Initiated-Lucid-Dream-(SSILD)

Thanks.

Seems like it all depends on HOW you use the technique, or what you try after the lucid dream ends.

SSILD was designed in a way for people to do the cycles very casually, then simply go to sleep. That's exactly what CosmicIron suggests. However, some people may attempt to LD/OBE directly from waking state while performing the cycles. The other option is to attempt some (Raduga) phasing indirect method after the lucid dream ends.

Cosmic.Iron gives some insight how people may have had these. Here is part of his initial post on SSILD...

"Theory

We do not know why exactly SSILD works.  One user pointed out that the method shares some resemblance with the self-hypnosis method introduced by Betty Erickson, wife of the late Dr. Milton H. Erickson.  Another theory is that by repeated stimulation of the various senses in a trance-like state, we incubate our mind and body into the right condition suited for entering a DILD, WILD, or OBE.

Regardless the theory, it is utterly crucial to keep in mind that SSILD is not strictly a WILD technique.  While many users report successful LD/OBE induction from the waking state, this method is equally effective at inducing DILDs.  In fact, I strongly suggest users treat it solely as a DILD technique in order to use it in the most effective manner."

In case you didn't know, a DILD is basically when you are dreaming and then become lucid while dreaming (dream induced lucid dream). However, I put in bold the part where he mentions that some individuals simply change how they perform the technique and keep mind awake, body asleep can induce OBEs.

[do(s)]

That Yoda character is one smart cookie!    

Here's to many successful "do(s)" or better yet, dids!      

I was finally able to get some success with a set of lucid dreams the other night. Circumstances that aided my success seem a bit hilarious to me. I was feeling, shall we say, a bit full in the tummy from the weekend. Monday was a birthday for family member where I stuffed myself even more. So my stomach was working overtime during my normal bedtime and kept me from my typical deep sleep I must have. A couple hours into this uncomfortable light sleep I decide to do some simple counting along with a mantra after every count of ten. I fell asleep at some point, but during a dream, this guy comes up and says "Maybe you're dreaming," and I did a nose pinch reality check and I was still breathing! Boom, lucid. I was sooooo fricken pumped in my dream I was practically yelling to the guy THANK YOU and gave him a huge high five! It didn't last long, but each time I woke up, I kept still and fell into another dream being lucid. I had maybe 4 total little lucids and they got stranger and stranger   wow! I was getting concerned I was forgetting earlier parts, so I stopped it all to write down what I could remember.  

To me its hilarious that it was being so full that night that it actually kept me from going into deep sleep like normal. LOL   Not sure I want to replicate that scenario. Once I get lucid, I need to work on settling down and following my plan. I don't feel very conscious, so I still act out sort of like my dream self does (automatic). Onward with the doing.

How? ...would you agree with practice and determination? 

Listen to his video!
"Leave Your Body in 3 Days (1/3) - A Michael Raduga Seminar"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQjAIlFZWWc

Raduga has a pinned post at top. Most important sections of video for you will be at these times of video:
32:18 - Indirect method theory
1:20:02 - Indirect method practice

Hey Kuurt,
I have no idea how to help you, but wanted to wish you some resolution! Sounds awful. Aside from the help here, I saw a post like yours and maybe there are some other suggestions to look into: https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/alb0hk/i_opened_a_door_and_now_i_cant_close_it/

Looks like these older style forums are on their way out due to shift in technology with tablets, phones, and newer ways to access the internet with "apps." Even Facebook is considered old to the next gen. Even TV's come with apps, so the next gen is experiencing something from early age we never saw until mid age. I think forums are just linked with an older way of accessing info so there isn't newer replacement users as the older ones leave/move on. I see the same thing happening with other "hobbies" of mine.   

Maybe the site Reddit shows this trend. You can access it from a browser on your pc, but more to the point, or they have an app you can install on the phone and the app brings up the latest posts from the subjects you're are subscribed too. So I think "app" access may steer younger kids more as we go. However, it doesn't seem like the subjects are dead... Reddit's LucidDreaming sub has over 200k subscribers and the AP sub has over 50k. Each has their own rules on what to talk about, but they are busy every day with new questions. The difference between here and there is like the difference between a quiet in depth conversation at a park vs a quick chat at a Starbucks café.

Im reading your posts. In fact I wanted to comment on your post the other day about hypnotism. I had never heard of how they utilize  the word TRY as a failure. I've always enjoyed Star Wars and first thing I thought of while reading your post was a quote from Yoda, "Do or do not, there is no try" How a movie character understand this and I didn't.  lol Sadly, "trying" pretty much sums up 2018 for me. "Doing" will be the focus in 2019.

Im such a little grasshopper.  By looking at this scale I have low-mid scores on average, ranging from 2-6. Some weeks depending on sleep, I can be in the 0-1 range. Occasionally a smell or sensation will come through in my dreams, but they are rare and only raise my awareness up to make recalling the dream easier but never enough to reach level 10. 

Other night I had a dream of this skinny witch thing with no eyes in socket (very rare dream character!) shouted a pulse of air/clear energy at me and I felt it go thru my body. I was like wow, that was interesting and thought to block/repulse those with a force of my own and doing so turned these pulses into harmless bubbles. The character and sensation of the pulse go thru my dream body both made that dream memorable, so that was positive / level 9 type of interaction. Creatures are extremely rare in my dreams. Lucid? Nope. 
Last night I became the owner of a Disneyland park and a wild dog was attacking me. I had to stab it. Lucid? Nope (mind you, I was bitten by a dog twice as a child and still nothing!) lol. These sort of interactions are almost silent or muted and mostly void of emotions that would trigger me to question my reality. 

I started a dream journal maybe 2 years ago and it's helped a little. Better than being at 0-1 before, but I expected more I guess. Recall leaves way faster and easier than getting it back. A clear head before going to sleep and going to bed earlier are a requirement just to maintain these low-mid scores. I am in my 40s, and yeah I was pretty unconscious about this stuff for decades, but I thought at least my dream recall would see a bit more gradual increase in improvements.

First chance I get, I'm heading to Astral Pulse Island! 

Hi Lumaza,

Thanks for all the interesting ideas lately.

Right now I'm just trying to get my routine sorted out, to eliminate any questions about what I should be doing during my routine so that all my focus can be about the experience instead. I still have some basic newbie things to sort out. I have a free Robert Monroe Wave session I listen to called "open exercise" where Monroe sets up the conversion box, breathing, and affirmations followed by a chunk of empty time to explore before returning to c1. It has a good base of things you suggest here. I sort of follow something similar to Frank's script. That explore time is where I will fit in your exercises. It's about 40 mins.

I've decided to do this before bed once things are quiet, but there are days when it just doesn't happen because Im too tired. I was doing a simple breathing mediation at this time of the night before bed, but I am thinking this practice is more beneficial. The only other time to attempt this would be an early wake up time when I finish a rem period of sleep (4-5am). Not sure if you have any comments, but I think at least practicing this routine over mediation before bed will be more beneficial until the routine is without any doubts or second guesses.  

Regarding the eyes, there is a lot of switching happening between my physical eyes and trying to observe from the mind's eye/viewpoint. One thing that I remember Frank talking about was how he suggested the physical eyes should look up (maybe up as far as possible). Nobody else really mentions it though. If I am putting effort or attention towards making my eyes roll up, it seems like its putting additional focus on my physical eyes. So Im doing my routine and my viewpoint is struggling between my physical eyes and my minds eye, but then I start worrying about the direction of where my eyes should be looking. Lumaza, I couldn't find any real reference from you on direction of physical eyes, so my impression is to avoid thinking of the physical eyes all together, but I would like to clarify this.  Does having the physical eyes directed up or towards the brow "third eye" area help? Is it warranted for a newbie?

Finally, you've mentioned your "quick progressive relaxation technique" but not much detail on what that entails? I know you've mentioned experiences where things like a pac man eats away your body, and you suggest things like breathing or unzipping of the body suite. However, what is a progressive relaxation technique?

Cheers.

I tried doing the technique on obe4u where you awake after 6 hours and stay awake / read and think about the phase.

https://obe4u.com/how-to-lucid-dream/

The first two steps can be skipped.

Any advice?

Thanks.

Theres been a lot of advice on these 3 pages, but you seem to move on to something else before using advice. How often are you attempting this method? What part IS NOT WORKING? If you look at the link you shared above, after step 5, it has a small sample of issues/suggestions. (PS- Raduga's downloadable "book" spends a huge amount of pages to examples/issues and what he suggested to fix them.)

The link you shared has suggestions to these issues and more:

Typical mistakes when performing indirect techniques include:
– Lack of an attempt to separate
– Lack of aggression
– Fewer than 4 cycles
– Unnecessary Change of Technique
– Unnecessary Continuation of a Technique
– Forgetting to Separate
...

Which of these address your current issue - I didn't copy them, but he gives suggestions for each issue through out STEPS 1-5.

I do have a few questions though. When you first start noticing the darkness before your eyes, do you get a slight impulse to "re-adjust" your eyes? I ask this because lately I have been attempting to slow the process down so I can note every little thing. I will get a impulse after having my eyes closed, whereas it is a urge to readjust my closed eyes. Like refocusing. If I ignore it, the urge will strengthen until it almost becomes like a "exploding head" effect. I ignore it further and almost immediately the darkness begins to change and I feel vibrations. I think this urge is one of those tests your body does to see if you still are still awake. When you beat the urge, your body will naturally begin to go through the normal/natural sleep pattern,  that you normally aren't consciously aware of.

Had a Frank K flashback reading this, as about 2 yrs ago when I found this place and was reading his compilations, he always talked about the eyes. I don't think Ive seen hardly ANY posts since then about this part of the body. So much concern about relaxing the body, but how much impact can restless eyes have? Frank suggested looking up with eyes closed to the point of slightly straining them if I recall. I know for me, in the beginning, my eyes are sort of jerking and searching for something to focus on. Is there a consensus on direction of eyes and/or is it just a matter of doing other things like counting to take our focus away from eyes? Not sure if Im getting my point/question 

This is why i advocate indirect obe methods first.

Got any links/details regarding recommended indirect methods?

Another option:
Not to take anything away from the lady who created those audios, but would the power of these messages be even better if I recorded my own voice saying the script? (Btw, I tested out the script on page 1 with a website converting text to speech and it was ok, but its free technology and sounded a bit like the annoying robo videos on youtube these days.)

However, I just did a real quick test recording my voice and the ability to make a homemade version of this is damn easy on phones these days (at least my iphone). I have two apps that can be setup to play at same time without cancelling either out. One free app (Documents by Readdle) plays my voice recorded message or mp3 set to replay over and over. Another free app (myNoise) that has some great free noises (rain, waves, nature, Tibetan choir, & binaural machine!) that I can set up in combination. Play them both at same time, plus gives me freedom to change background noises, remove binaural, play once, etc.

I guess it all boils down to whether I want to hear myself talking or not.  At least hearing myself with positive affirmations would be nice I think.

Just my 2 cents.

After posting yesterday, this morning I caught myself waking up and kept my body still in same position with eyes closed. I was able to feel vibrations start to surge a little but go away. A good sign its possible now. Just hate that I flop around like a fish in the early morning.