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I came across "my" first Seth book at the age of around 16. The christian religion - protestant is predominant where I was born - never really felt like it was "the answer" to my questions. Back at that time I was also fascinated by astro-physics and almost felt like that was a way for me to persue - profession-wise.

Until around 1992 where I read a book (in the small library of the school) about scientific "claims" (such books are usually written in a that's-how-it-is tone, rather than "that's our hypothesis of the day") of so-called "quasars" at the outer rims of a supposedly expanding universe. I thought to myself: Wow, you guys talk about millions - even billions of light years away - ignoring what's inbetween or how the rule's of physics might be different over there, I found all those ideas of fast rotating "collapsed stars" that radiate like lighthouses so preposterous, that I instinctively put away the book and was done with that kind of"science" - I was in training to be an electronic technician at that time...

Around 2003 I came across the Elias-Forum. Other than Seth or Bashar, Mary Ennis allows almost all (some people don't want their private sessions published) of the session transcrips to be published on a web-site. Someone went through the "trouble" to make topic related "digests" and I soaked those up...

So that's my angle. Even though "knowing the way, isn't walking the way" 

No worries Lightbeam. They will get it sooner or later. They are just coming at it from a different path. As we know, there are many paths that lead to the same destination. They have just chosen the most difficult one!

According to Elias, each individual has their own perception, which creates their own reality. Which means, we do not interact with others physical form, but rather with their energy expression and use it somehow like a "copy" to insert it into our own perception (reality). Which in turn creates billions of realities on this planet alone - not including each individuals parallel probable realities from which we choose to experience the "one" that we remember.

While "we" all seem to follow the basic and mighty belief-systems ("rules" which shape this physical, time-bound dimension). It shall be possible to neutralize their influence on us and choose other beliefs. Which makes those "scientific truths"(tm) somewhat blurry (take e.g. illnesses that kill some and do not phase others, what shall be the "right cure" if it's sort of imaginary anyway).

Elias also said once, that the secret of life is, that there is not secret. This dimension is not a trial to "become better"(tm). He keeps on pointing out, that we all already are. This dimension shall be a place where - let's call it "the universal conciousness" or all-that-is - merely experiences itself for fun - out of curiosity. It doesn't judge.

He also refers to an incarnation as a focus (of conciousness - which we can shift to e.g. project or dream) of which an "oversoul" might have only a few or many in this dimension at different time periods. "We" also shall not re-incarnate, nor have "karma"(tm) to carry along. As from the point of "energy-conciousness" time does not exist and is always now.

So, those scientist are neither really wrong, nor do they have to get on the "right path" - it seems we all choose, more or less concious, what we like in a certain focus - including  suffering and pain, which is part of the experience.

I like to use the analogy of Multi-User-Online-Games that people play for fun and all they see of the other players are "copies" on their computer's screen, while the other players sit at their computers, watching from a somewhat different angle, experiencing a somewhat different reality.

From that point of view, yes, we create in the image of god(s), which we seem to be ourselves...

[experience]

Well, according to "spiritual channels"  - such as Elias, Bashar or Seth - this "physical realm" is designed as a place to (foremost) experience. Even though one of its "building blocks" is "Duality" (i.e. good/bad, male/female, worthless/expensive, right/wrong), it's rather a choice in each single moment of our life, than a necessity of "becoming better" or even learning the "the right way"(tm) - of which there shall be none anyway.

Yet, each individual has their preferences and free will! If there is a challenge to master is guess it's paying attention to our own choices and belief systems ("filters"). Which evades me time and again, since I'm one of those "truth-seekers" (a distracting task, if there's no absolute truth to begin with)

And yes, I'd be so up to designing "simplified" Video-Game-like realities, as compared to this µ-managing-health-of-a-some billion-cells-Body (choosing from dozens of "life-style religions" Gluten, fat-free, low-carb, lactose-free or what-have-you) and playing my role in a born-into-a-complex "playing-isn't-paying-so-work-is-what-I'm-saying" society of similarily "distracted" billions of individuals - is kind of a brave challenge...


So, a world without money would mean to "replace" a lot of ingrained mass-belief-systems, auto-pilot-habits, transcending all those fears around getting rid of a money system, that is no longer an efficent means of exchange.

I'm a big supporter of people "working" less and enjoying life more.  We have the technology today whereby most people shouldn't have to work anymore and everyone should be living a much better quality of life than we are today.

At least need to work less. Pretty much anywhere on this planet. It's just absurd, how generations of people hang onto these systems of leaders and governance, ruled or rather controlled by the means of this money exchange. It was in a TED talk where a woman spoke about the "Venus Project" and summed it up nicely:

"We think, we are so smart and civilised, yet, we actually pay to live on a planet, that gives us everything for free... and we are in debt."

To mind comes also the decades old "Venus Project".

Or "Die Fünf Stundenwoche", German: the five hour (working) week" (1989) concept.
http://www.5-stunden-woche.de

Only because others were scared, it doesn't mean that you will be as well. Energies attract. So fear might attrakt the fearful. Could overcoming fears make one invinceable? Enjoy.

There was a phase a few years ago, when I did the whole digital clock thing with 11:11, 23:23, too. It has worn off a little. It can mean about anything you want it to.

A "channeling source", explains that 11:11 is a reminder of becoming more aware and concious in CMOR "creating my own reality".

It can also be a symbol of "being in sync" with oneself. Or simply a signal of acknowledgement that you are paying attention to your surroundings, or a signal that tries to tell you to pay more attention to what you are creating in this reality.

i was actually less refering to internet abbrev, but more those of the astral stuff related abbrev, like F10, or what ever here and ther epops up

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18095

with which eyes did you try to "see"?

Is there sth like a qick reference listing down often used abbreviations? like,
sth - something

I can find RTZ indirectly under FAQs Glossary, but sometimes, it might be handy to have a simple list of abbrevations to refer to.

facinating, I call that "the boredom of success" *hahaha*

1. I do not now about any "wrongs", nor "shoulds".
2. Perhaps as you already said, "trying hard" is the obstracle?

There seem to be lots of methods and/or variations to reach the aim... I "ended" up with a view, that stated, that we only believe to "need" an "astral body".

In my first attempts, I recall i must have been so determined, that I threw this created astral body literally through my room. For I recall having swayed all of a sudden on the opposite side of my room almost "against" the wall, until my excitement pulled me immediately back into my physical body >_<;

Who knows what works for you? Perhaps virtual ballons, or wings, or letting the ground fall away...

Also, some recommend to be in a place where nobody might "disturb" your physical body while you are on "etheral excusions"!

IMHO only.

that always goes w/o saying ^_^

Your post paints a stroke across several different topics.

Isn't the whole idea to "drop the veils of separation"? When - in the eyes of chaos-science - a butterfly somewhere in this world might have "caused" Katrina, it might hint, that it doesn't help understanding to take things apart. Like looking at a drop of water doesnt explain the sea. If I create my individual (as opposed to science's one objective for all) reality through my perception, then there is not a single drop of anything, that doesnt influence/is not influenced by - the "sea of me".

Man began asking why.

one of the most familar questions, that interestingly enough seems to give the least satisfactory answer to the one that wonders about any "why".

"Why do all these terrible things happen to me? - I pray to God, I lead the best life I can, and nevertheless these bad things happen."  

Perhaps things do not "happen" to us, perhaps there is no (such) entity on the other side of the prayer. Perhaps there is no such thing - in the sense of "duality" - as "the best life", or "bad things"

(i.e. a projection of ourselves)

Yet, usually casted outside of ourselves

all that is left to do is to blame one's self (or worse blame your neighbor)

That leaves mankind completely out of options, a vicious circle at that.

How can an all knowing, all powerful, and all seeing God continually create perfect plans that fail?

Under the premise, that there is sth like "perfection" (which to finally meet must be pretty creepy >_<; )

why would an all knowing, all loving God become so angry at the failure of "His own creation" that he chose to destroy it

Coming to think of it... mankind has gotten pretty funny, if not absurd ideas in the making of their personification of some god.

Was it a failure of the painting or the painter?

If there is such a thing as "failure"? - define "a failure"!

To use the 'better' is to quite markedly evoke the concept of duality.

Quite accurately put "Duality" does seem to be very much intertwined with anything of our physical reality: plus/minus, male/female, small/big, black/white, day/night, proton/electron, healthy/deadly, up/down, ... (u got the point)

Enlightenment is simply reality - what is - being (devoid of any concepts of better or worse).

Let's cling the tea mugs and drink to preferances!  \^o^/ (as opposed to duality)

So what about the dream, maya, this world?

I dont know about this "dream".

Might as well have some fun while we're here.. being mindful of karma, of course..

Yeah, more fun, less seriousness! Just no karma for me  :confused:

..and also your reference to the game, Jo'ogn.  We should have cookies and tea and talk about the Tree of Life - lol.  Perhaps you've seen my sig-line.

one fine day, sure. If i happen to be around "the states" again, or you over in germany Somewhere s.o. refered already to the "game" analogy, maybe it was you.

"He who seeks to save his self shall lose it, but he who gives up his self for my sake shall find it."

What has disturbed me in practically all religious approaches is/was, that somewhere they usually all hold an element of "punishment", chastising, or like the topic suggest, the need of getting "better", enlightened.

"We" seem to have a strong emphasized sense of "self-discounting" and lack of trust in our own worth. Does anyone "reach for the stars", or believes in having those powers that are lifted up in the personifications of any kind of "deity" it is frowned upon. Science included.

That's why I find more "relief" in those completely free concepts of "I create my own reality". Even if I have no longer anyone to blame for my own problems  

It is fascinating, how similar things can be put into so many different words... And in terms of "suchness" been "distorted", so that it is split into "thatness" and "thisness"... by thinking...

The act of meditation seems to me a "method of silence", to quiet the (noisy) thinker in the "objective part" of this dimension - which is me - to be able to listen to the (more silent) "subjective part" - which is me, too.

I might be able to pass through the veils (a bit like the covers jilola speaks about). I still believe that experiencing ~this~ dimension is not a "failure", or a "karmic (necessary) task". I believe it is nothing but a variety of consciousness - which I am part of, or which is I - exploring itself.

I came to understand, that those "veils of separation", i.e. this seemingly isolated physical world - as opposed to some non-phyiscal energetic state of being, are intentionally set by ourselves to "intensivy" our experience of ~this~ dimension.

Like one doesnt want to know the end of a movie in advance to not spoiling the experience. To not having a walk-through for a tantalizing videogame, but to find the solutions ourselves, even if it might be "painfully annoying", but we choose this "pain", for it is as much fun in that process of becoming.

So if the veils of this camouflage system would just drop and we'd see ourselves, bared of time, of space, of karma, of judgment... Just the Love behind everything... Where would be the drama left? The fear of the flesh? We would deprive this reality of a very worthwhile feature, like entering cheats into a videogame, to have "infinite lives", or to "not taking hits", opening all "coded doors" etc...

Yet, it seems as if in this period of the century - we as individuals - open (in a global sense) to the chance of "cheating". Which had not be done in such amounts, in what we consider the historic past.

It's not like I believe we are, or were not allowed, I just see it this way, that it was not our desire to do so (in other foci/lives/incarnations). But now we (seemingly all of us, awarely or not) steer deliberatly into a new age of "realization", remembering how we - in a manner of speaking -in "the beginning" set up this "game-plane". Opening our awareness to the option to experience physical lifetime differently.

Other "sources" explain, that there is no "enlightenment", but remembrance.

Some "religious POVs" believe in a "circle of life", or karma, or re-incarnation. Maybe you are "slow in understanding" because those concepts just do not really resonate with you, as they did not with me in the past. So perhaps you might also want to look at other "concepts of becoming".

Meditation is a "method", "we" seem to like methods and techniques, or certain substances one has to take...

So to ~my~ relief ^_^;  those "channels", or "energy exchanges" explain, that methods are not necessary to archive certain "goals". That doesn't mean, that "methods" are "wrong", no! They ~can~ be indeed helpful. But they are not absolutely necessary. For that reason you might find, that each individual has their very own.

As MindFreak pointed out, pay attention to yourself, your "subjective inside world"! There is not only thought, but also emotions, listen to those.

And as J.K. said, the "objective outside" is not separated from the "subjective". You might find that your subjective emotions infact are reflected in the objective "outside" world that you perceive.

I wouldn't be surprised if he runs when he meets me.

unless you draw the poor boy in again

if having no desire to live and completely giving up in life so you starve on the street is classified as suicide? And is it wrong?

I would perceive it as a choice, certainly not as sth "wrong". Sources like Seth, or Elias put it this way: "You create your own reality" (YCYOR) So any kind of your "death" would be a "suicide" - You choose if in a (personally) dramatic, or in a smooth way.

Still you might have to ask yourself: "what am I going to do ~after~ I have disengaged from this physical dimension?" If one is bored with physical life (which I can feel into by own experience), what will change in ones motivation by simply changing the form of experiencing existance?

Is there like some kind of cosmic law that says you have to keep this body alive for as long as you can while your here?

Not to my understanding. There seems to be not a single "cosmic law" for anything. It would imply judgment by the "whole of consciousness" which only folds back upon myself (as being part of the whole) - judging myself - which again would be only my choice to do so.

There are a lot of lies written about Einstein saying he was a plagiarizer, but there are a lot of lies about his genius too. Do some research into his background and look into Lorentz and Poincare. The truth is rarely that which is portrayed by popular media.

Quite, and then it is said that Newton was "replaced" by Einstein and Einstein by Heisenberg... Each generation of science considered themselves as "right", yet, they seemingly were not. So we could claim in this "wake of moving forward in exploration", that in some future our nowadays science might be laughed upon, as "we" might do with those scientists, that believed the earth to be flat.

And some of the "projecting explorers" seem to hint already, that time and space are merely illusions for the sake of this "physical Earth Videogame", that we - as representatives of our Essences - seem to play here. So the "speed of light" would be no constant, even space wouldn't be curved, it doesn't even seem to be existant. Quantum physics already experience blinking in and out matter, wondering were did it go? Were did it come from again...

Sorry about that post a little irresponsible when where talking about suicide.

Everything is interconnected

So I reckon if you can't just collapse and die on the spot, you must be here for some reason.

Maybe thinking just doesn't create our reality?
Just "thinking"... If you say in a fit "If I'd just die!" and you would...
Just imagine: everything would instantaneously happen simply by "thought", this dimension would be completly upside down  

If one just had to think "why doesn't everyone I hate simply drop dead?!", how often would one regret, to see his/hers siblings, parents, loved ones, friends, lovers, spouses neatly decease in front of oneselves in each moment one just happens to "think" that *chuckle*

No, seriously, we seemingly have set up this dimension with quite cunny mechanism to explore this type of physical reality.

Interestingly enough - according to many "channels" - there is not this concept of "evolvement", of getting "better", more "wise"... what ever. Due to the fact of no time >_<; Because it implies, that we are all that already: Now *giggle*

So time seemingly does move in some way, only that on a broader level we have "random access" - including all the dimensions of probabilities... That makes it so difficult to ask, what anything one perceive might mean, for each of us is a "projector".

Or put in another way our perception shall be highly individualized, like an encapsuled universe on its own - quite differnt to the scientist's beliefs, that there must be "one single true reality", there seems rather to be infinite individual ("true") realities...  Which puts the reason of arguing about things into quite some "new" perspective *chuckle* For everything one perceives shall be actually "real".

Could it be that I was sensing this child who used to live in my room? Also why do you guys think I was stumbling everywhere? after I got out of my closet I wanted to try and stick my hand through the door and had to stumble over that way. My motor skills could be likened to being drunk, but not real bad.

I feel that there are myriads of possibilities. There is this tendency to fit all that we perceive out of the context of our "objective world" right back into the rigid limited "physical rules". The baby could be really anything - just search your own feelings, what it might symbolize.

The stumbling might be quite the same, you might feel inapt of projecting and/or "using" the actually (as i understand) unnecessary, yet for that reason created, "astral body". Or you might feel that you should stumble as you should be in contact with the physical floor and those things littered over it - whatever...

--
Even though it's a bit off topic here...

@hotshotrobot - I feel it's pretty simple actually - as I understand it - if you try to imagine time in co-oridinates like space: x, y, z. We can move straight ahead (+x) and back (-x) Sideways (+/-y) and up and down (+/-z). Why should we not being able to do the same with time? In time we just think of it as walking forward only in a straight x-line.

Or take a stripe of film. Make every single picture a 3D cube of a scene happening. If you work on this film, cutting its scenes, you can watch all scences as an observer and skimming through them. That's what our Essence shall be doing with all the lives we are living from within it, for our experience. It sees all those points in time at the same moment and can move to and through them.

Now we still create an untold future, from infinite possibilities. For that reason no being can truly foretell our future, for we have the freedom of choice in any given moment. We live practically in a "Now-only-world" and choose the next event, that we have potentially laid out by probabilities, that we have set into motion in the Nows before, yet they are not what some might call our inavoidable fate, cause we can turn and choose another path in each moment.

So what we can tell are latent possibilities, like "Yes, it's very likely that you graduate", "No, right now it doesn't seem like your friend will die of that dis-ease." But there are no absolutes in that.

Now we can also turn and change "past Nows", or meet other "foci of our attention" in some to us future. For we "just" (oh yay, how easy ) step sideways in the time/space illusion to that virtual co-ordinate, for we don't actually have to go around in some vast space to cross it, we just would have need to trancended it and make a step "through" space to any desired location. No need of time, no need to be limited by some (perhaps) "speed of light"

@elliot - maybe in your dreamstate you peep into/contact others of your lives. Sounds reasonable enough. I believe that those lives are all Now. That also includes the future.

Like perhaps Stookie's "sci-fi city". The beach could be perhaps in a different dimension and the dragons were in fact real, but your mind - adjusted to this dimension - did not accept them as "real".

Like they showed in the movie "What the *bleep* do we know?" that the Indians shall have not even seen the ships of Columbus, for they didn't believe ships to be existant.

In the sense of "Astral-Traveling" (beliefs) I once read about the "astral-debris" I.e. you saw "energetic garbage". The remaining aura of the thing the former inhabitant had pinned to those walls. Some even shall see complete furnitures. Some claim it depends on how much those things meant to the former creator, so that would make them more intense or vanishing more quickly - of course this all a little contradicts, or rather intermingles itself with the illusion of time/space and our own beliefs of directed time, energy fields and such.

Personally I would say (refering to channels like Elias and Seth), similarely to Zante, you in fact have seen the posters of that girl on your walls. As somehow they are still there - if you consider all moments in time as Nows. You might persistantly fade out anything that could be there in some future, for your mind would reject (as in "we do not believe that") to see into the future, even though it exists already to a certain extend - in parallel time - as well.

I believe that there simply MUST be other physical "intelligent" presences elsewhere. I mean, come on! Only us puny humans in the entire physical universe? Nah, can't be.

Why not? Why should we not have "planes" of experience? And this is the playground of us being physical humans - nothing else, as pure and simple as that. And I wouldnt de-value us as "puny".

Also, the sheer size of the observable physical universe is as you know... enormously hugely vast. If you visit one star system per second it would still take you billions of years to see them all... and that's just what we can see.

~If~ it is vast - in terms of space! ~If~ there are star-systems! And even if it is a vast space, so what? If we take a step "aside", shifting into another dimension, intertwinging with the very same space/time arrangement - in the sense of "it's actually in the same location, just another dimension - We would have all the "aliens" we want, all the "folklore and mystical beings we possibly could imagine... And best of it, they would be all us... Just in the manifestation of another "plane" of experiencing conciousness.

IIRC I read somewhere that in fact the other planets shall be "inhabitated", but on another "level" of existance. One would have to "step sideways", to find them. Not unlikely what Zante talks about. And Monroe showed sth similar with his "friend" BB. Esp how marvelous our physical world experience is.

I read on infinitebeing.com and also in one of Robert Monroe's books that when the soul travels at really far distances, it must stop to re-astral project.  This is felt as a brief pausing sensation.  The soul may need to pause more than once depending on how far it travels.

To a certain extend if find it as regretable as amazing how our beliefs limiting our expansion. What kinds of "reasons", borders, rules we make up to "pinning us down".... We must be really afraid of our own power and "greatness", that we invest so much energy to holding ourselves back.

Reality seems to be way vaster than even many "spiritual world views" seem to understand it. Ever heard the phrase "there are no secrets"?

But as we all create our own reality within our perception, it is hard to tell what he sees and what you see. And even what he seems to be telling you, is how ~you~ create him and you may alter this perception of him any time.

The funny thing now is, that you might create him doing and seeing things in ~your~ reality, that he doesn't in his You might find out in those moments, when he is truely puzzled about what he shall have done in your eyes.

Not to mention the infinite possibilities of reality, that we do not actualize (physically), that however shall linger still latent in some form of energy patterns, which can be tapped into by any individual... Don't worry.

Last summer I woke up one morning and I felt sth similar as Gandalf: "Disengaging (dying) now wold be a possible choice (of mine)" Quite obviously I did not - but I had a very weird sensation resting upon me for the next three days.