Important: Poll on proposed subscription forums

[Major Tom]

...

[jilola]

How about the boards as they are for $10 a year?

If the reason is workload, why not just drop some topics without a subscription? If the reason is financial rather than workload related why limit the scope?

Also since focus is the aim, why have Metaphysics AND (I presume) Quantum Metaphysics? Plain quantum physics doesn't sound like something this forums should include mainly because the level of discussion will almost necessarily be extremely limited in scope.

As the proposal stands I vote a noncommittal "dunno."

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[GANAMOHA]

we have to pay now?[] to be on astralpulse

[Adrian]

Greetings GANAMOHA,

quote:Originally posted by GANAMOHA

we have to pay now?[] to be on astralpulse

No, this will be additional to the forums as they are now, so you will be able to particpate here as before for free.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[GANAMOHA]

i voted no but meant yes opps srry

[Adrian]

Greetinhs Jilola,

Thank you very much indeed for your comments.

quote:Originally posted by jilola

How about the boards as they are for $10 a year?

If the reason is workload, why not just drop some topics without a subscription? If the reason is financial rather than workload related why limit the scope?

Money is not in any way the motivation for this proposal. We wish to provide all members and potential members an additional option in orde to pursue discussions in a more more highly focussed environment.

Of course, the Astral Pulse does cost time and money to operate, especially considering its size, and of course the funds received would go towards maintaining and operating the forums in future.

quote:
Also since focus is the aim, why have Metaphysics AND (I presume) Quantum Metaphysics? Plain quantum physics doesn't sound like something this forums should include mainly because the level of discussion will almost necessarily be extremely limited in scope.

Quantum Metaphysics will not be included as such. Quantum Physics is modern Spirituality in a great many respects, in fact Quantum Physics cannot be seperated from the esoteric, mystical, occult paths, and so this is a good opportunity to include this important subject.

I would again like to make it clear that we are not proposing any changes to the Astral Pulse as it is now, this is an additional, entirely optional service.

Thank you for your valued views.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Logic]

Great idea, but whats to stop immature or irresponsible people from subscribing and lowering the quality of something like this, to gain more personal knowledge?

[jilola]

Adrian:/b]

quote:We wish to provide all members and potential members an additional option in orde to pursue discussions in a more more highly focussed environment.

Umm..,. let me get this straigth. I'd pay to get less?
Correct me if I'm wrong but that sounds a bit strange to me.

If the intention is to provide some members(non-subscribers) with the current forums and others (subscribers) with a limited number of forums then couldn't some forums just be made "invitation only", the membership being based on either application and moderator review or a significant contribution to the community? Or are the forums listed in the poll completely new ones available only to subscribers?

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Risu no Kairu]

So ,wait, the current members won't have to pay? Only new members?

I can't afford ten dollars. I can't afford two dollars. I'm poor. :/ I really like this forum. I think it's the nicest and best one I visit every day.

I would hate to lose it.

[Rastus]

By default your going to limit part of the site to 18+.  Yes you can be under 18 and have a paypal account, but it's not easy.  Some people won't want to explain to their parents what the $10 was for (what will it show up as).

AND! for $10 are we going to upgrade the server(s) so the search works and the outages go away?

(I already voted yes)

[Naiad780]

Yeah, go for it.  $10 is affordable for me and if it keeps the trolls and OMGS! away, I'll be happy.  

I did like Jouni's idea of invitation-only forums, too.

And if someone can't afford it, perhaps the fee can be waived in special circumstances where the poster is obviously making mature, informative posts?

[Adrian]

Greetings,

To follow up on some concerns:

1) The Astral Pulse as it is now will continue to be free.

2) The subscriber forums will be moderated to maintain the highest possible standards of discussions, and the moderators and myself will make every possible effort to ensure that

3) The fees will go some way to maintaining the Astral Pulse for the future. The Astral Pulse utilises a huge amount of resources that far and away exceed anything a normal hosting account would provide, and therefore requires a dedicated high-performance server. The current server is a few years old now and this has to be kept in mind.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Kazbadan]

Sorry friends, but english can be tricky to a "foreigner". So, let me see if i get the idea: the objective is to make AP forums a payable forum. We must pay for be in the forum, to participate in discussions, etc,etc. Is that the idea?!

Hmmm....it would be much more nice if it were possible to do not pay, because AP forums it is great because of it´s freedom of speech and because it is free, but if we must pay to read and post messages....

About the Topics, Adrian msybe you should consider the topics you refered. I think that little people goes to the Quantum Ph. Mayb e it is better to see the forums with more "traffic" but this is just an idea.


About the paypal system, how does it work? i dont like the idea of paying things on the nett. What about hackers having acess to your accounts, etc,,etc?

[Jaclyn]

Adrian,
I may not be 18+ years, but when it comes to astral projection and OBEs I take it seriously. I've been searching for forums like this for some time now, although I have noticed many immature posters. But there are some people on the forums that I realize are very experienced in AP, and if I wasnt able to post with them anymore, my progress would slow dramatically. I'm not inexperienced when it comes to this subject, but I would love to understand it more, and if I'm stuck with a bunch of thirteen year olds who don't know what they're talking about, I have a feeling it just won't be the same.
 I'm not able to pay the amount asked because of family rules, but I would really hate to lose the privilage of posting and viewing the forums.

[jilola]

quote:1) The Astral Pulse as it is now will continue to be free.

Excellent! That is the way I'd like AP go.

quote:2) The subscriber forums will be moderated to maintain the highest possible standards of discussions, and the moderators and myself will make every possible effort to ensure that

The boards are already moderated, albeit sporadically of late.

quote:3) The fees will go some way to maintaining the Astral Pulse for the future. The Astral Pulse utilises a huge amount of resources that far and away exceed anything a normal hosting account would provide, and therefore requires a dedicated high-performance server. The current server is a few years old now and this has to be kept in mind.

So far the only real and understandable reason for a fee based subscription. I think most of the regulars would (should) be happy to donate regardless and if this isn't already the case the the mind does the proverbial boggle.

The fear I have with regard to a fee for a subscription is that it will decimate not only the people it is intended to keep away but also awfully many of those that would make a good contribution to the subscriber forums, some for no other reason than principle other for lack of funds.

Also, what will become of the nonsubscriber forums? If the forums dived into those who pay and those who don't I predict a significant reduciton in th equality of the nonsubscriber forums leading to their eventual termination.

But like Mr. C said: "Do as Thou Wilt....". I have no objections, only concerns. And since I can shell out the tenner a year I'll stay on both types of forums.

Do consider the whole equation though []

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[rantboi]

So if someone isn't able to give 10 bucks, they can't join the more moderated and 'mature' forums?

That seems unfair. (But that's just me...)

-Ater

[Lickerish]

Well I'm not even currently unemployed right now so I don't really have  $10 to spare.
I also think that its somewhat unfair to start suddenly charging for a service that was free before.

[Huwie]

quote:Originally posted by Lickerish

Well I'm not even currently unemployed right now so I don't really have  $10 to spare.
I also think that its somewhat unfair to start suddenly charging for a service that was free before.

They're not proposing to charge for all access!  Just access to the focused, more closely-moderated section.

[crazy_colombiang]

I think that people who want to pay 10$ should really be into OOBE etc. Because lets say a person pays 10$ but just asks questions like "How do I do the rope technique?" questions like that, can be answered in normal forums. So whoever has not voted yet, should think about what i wrote.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Do you guys get my point? Its really hard for me to explain because i am hispanic and i have a hard time typing in english.[]

[Blackstream]

Why make them invisible?  At least make the forums readable so that everyone can benefit from the wonderful discussions that develop.  Make it so that only those that pay can post if you have to, but leave the information out in the open for all to learn from.

[Phong]

Interesting. I'm trying to think of other examples where an organization tried to sell quality of discussion. Usually discussion clubs that require fees do so because there's a tangible element (i.e. events, materials, facilities). In this case it's a forum... but that's odd because the forum would still be free for others. There's just this addition of a subscription only section. How silly is that? Are people more mature about talking when they pay for it? Are they less mature when they don't?

I think it's very funny that the longer established members have equated loss of value with increase in members - as if value and people are inversely related.

Although I wasn't around back then, I've read most of the early threads and have this to say about them: 1) They were just as general as they are today. People asked "what is kundalini?" and inquired on authenticity, "did I have an OBE?" repeatedly. Therefore, 2) the focus that did exist was not theoretical but social. And 3) the most theoretical focus was because Robert Bruce was active in the forum. As the founder of the web site he's the figurehead of the topic of discussion. Every topic around his posts were "focused" because he is the focus. His posts were actually quite lengthy in order to satisfy the largely general nature of the questions asked of him.

Since Bruce coming back isn't a condition, it appears the established members want to reclaim social focus. That can be done very easily without paying $10 - they can privately email each other en masse or even go to places like Yahoo!groups. Understandably they were here first, though, and so want to exercise a sense of "ownership" over the forum by paying for it.

You silly geese. It's free.

You want more engaging theoretical focus, so you think you can achieve this by decreasing the amount of people in discussion? This is fallacious on two accounts. 1) More people means not only more ideas but a greater diversity of ideas, which only advances theoretical discussion as long as it's conducted in an orderly manner. 2) Everyone is already serious. Sure, they vary with regards to intelligence, experience, age, linguistic skill, etc., but I've never seen a member use the forum as a playground. I have been frankly quite impressed with everyone's openness and honesty - including the skeptics. It's also silly to think those of lower caliber intelligence, experience, whatever, can be filtered out through a paid service (I'm not accusing anyone of thinking that, by the way).

If you want to have social focus while retaining theoretical focus, you form the group by invitation, selectively picking people who not only get along with one another but have diversity of perspective. I don't see anything wrong with AP going this route. It's a model of classic economic efficiency; businesses use it everywhere. There would already be a sense of inclusiveness and non-inclusiveness (in the non-invitational subscription service). That would succinctly appear to advance AP's original charter (whatever it is.. advancing knowledge about AP and providing an arena of advanced meaningful discussion? sounds about right).

I don't see anything wrong with the subscription addition, either. What's wrong is the people who want it.[|)]


Why don't we discuss the nature of this apparent loss of value? The forum can also be improved other ways, like creating a rule that no one can ask the question "was this an OBE?" providing a sticky that says it's a personal judgement and there is a mysterious relationship between beliefs and the experience of OBE's. That and other rules would eliminate a lot of garbage threads in my opinion and make the forum more congenial.

[Edited for clarity.]

[clandestino]

Hi Phong ! hope you are well.

quote:Are people more mature about talking when they pay for it? Are they less mature when they don't?

hee hee.... I guess the short answer to that question is "yes". If I'm paying 50p per minute to call my friend's mobile on another network, chances are I'll be getting to the point concisely. I'll still have time to have a laugh though.... very bad example I know [] but the principal remains the same.

As a new member who might visit only once or twice, knowing that I'll have to pay $10 to ask "what's an OBE" within a seperate group of forums will definitely put me off posting there. Thus, it would be hoped that the quality of discussion in these 5 subscription forums would be more in-depth.  

quote:I think it's very funny that the longer established members have equated loss of value with increase in members - as if value and people are inversely related.

I don't believe that the "oldies" feel that way ! I think you might have mis-interpreted Adrian's post.

quote:If you want to have social focus while retaining theoretical focus, you form the group by invitation,

Phong, I think this is a great idea, but it might cause a few major rifts ! hee hee. More importantly, nobody, new members or old, is qualified to pick and choose who deserves to be in such a group.

quote:I don't see anything wrong with the subscription addition, either. What's wrong is the people who want it.

Not sure what you mean here !!

Hi Jilola,

quote:Also, what will become of the nonsubscriber forums? If the forums dived into those who pay and those who don't I predict a significant reduciton in the quality of the nonsubscriber forums leading to their eventual termination.

Hopefully such a termination would never happen. But you are right, the creation of subscriber forums may well have the unwanted side effect of reducing the quality of the rest of the astralpulse. Or perhaps, the growing membership would maintain the quality ?

Kind regards,
Mark

[Selski]

Hello Mods []

If the subscribe-only sections are visible to non-members, this would benefit everyone, including the Mods!

If it's made visible, then people can decide to pay as and when they feel they want to contribute something worthwhile to the discussions.  I think you'll find the majority of serious people will end up paying anyway, because the information in the read-only sections will be tantalising!  And the information left in the free parts will be... well, lets say less tantalising.

Initially I'm not happy, it's a personal policy not to pay for information that is normally free on the Internet.  However, it's such a good website.  I know I'll still get this site free, but I feel that most of the sensible discussion (for want of a better word) will be hidden from me, if I don't pay.

I need to think about it some more before I vote, but these are my early thoughts.

Sarah

[Phong]

Hey Mark. I am well, thank you, and I hope you are as well (if not better!).

quote:Originally posted by clandestino
Not sure what you mean here !!

I just meant I thought it was silly for someone to want to pay for something that's already free (outside of a donation context). I do see the logic - paying for a conversation commands a certain sobriety. However, it doesn't guarantee it, and only guarantees that there will be fewer members (which can either be good or bad, but leaning towards bad). After all registering a username with an email address and knowing how to read also command a certain level of sobriety, so we have a start.

[Grigori]

I think the idea is a good one! though I think it would have been better to just call it a VIP club and/or an area for private discussions ... just to avoid the apparent confusion. All in all it sounds good!!! []