Important: Poll on proposed subscription forums

[Nagual]

Just a thought about the $10/year fee being too much... We're not talking about $20 or $50 a month; it's just $10/year!  The equivalent of: a movie ticket, a meal, a CD, half a DVD, etc...  for a whole year!  On the other hand, the paypal/kids problem is a problem...

Will I pay for it...?  No.  Not because I cannot afford it; but because I don't want to use my CC or use paypal stuff on the net.  Call me paranoid!  [:I]

An alternative would be maybe... hum... tiny adds (like googles text adds)?

[Jonas K strand]

hello!

i have some thoughts about the choises we have when we vote.
the first one is simply "yes i would welcome..." the second is "no, i have no interest in joining..." and the last, "i have no particular position..."

i dont think it leaves any room for people like me who think that this is a very bad idea, because of many reasons. most of them is allready mentioned.

as it is this is a selfless service, so dont allow it to grow to something that is just like the rest of this world. what people give on these forums is their own experiences, ideas, thoughts and help. no matter who you are and what youve been through, thats the unity, and thats the most important thing i think. and not only for the "small" ones being able to talk to more experienced but also the other way around. to give sevice and work with patience is not small things.

"noone is an island, wether you like it or not, all in the same boat wich is about to be rocked" -asian dub foundation

/jonas
 

[Hannah b]

[quote If the subscribe-only sections are visible to non-members, this would benefit everyone, including the Mods!

If it's made visible, then people can decide to pay as and when they feel they want to contribute something worthwhile to the discussions.  I think you'll find the majority of serious people will end up paying anyway, because the information in the read-only sections will be tantalising!  And the information left in the free parts will be... well, lets say less tantalising.

[/quote]

I think that it is also a very good idea. Also I understand that 10$ (it really is the price of a CD) is something some people can't afford, but on the other hand..have you all thought of the fact how much you are GAINING from the forum. I costs to run a forum like that and it's just the willingness to share (I'm talking about Adrian and all others taht run this place)that makes it possible for us to have such a great place. I said yes just out of the respect to the people that are putting alot of their own energy and money into this forum.

ps. I've seen on other sites situations where only one forum was "members only" and it seemed to work out great.
ps2. I also worry about the "wayO\ of paying" .There is no pay pal in some countries of Europe, and things like Western Union are very expensive.
good luck

[Kazbadan]

I still thinking that paying things by net it´s a problem (like someone said here "call me paranoid") for two reasons: it´s not safe and under 18 cannot pay it.

You may argue: "So, kids cannot pay, thats good because now we will have shure that only mature people will post nice discussions in the forum". I really hope that no one it is thinking like that because "kids" are not kids. I know many "kids" with 15 years, 16, etc and they are very mature.

I have another question: how deep would go such "mature" discussions if we pay?! I mean, instead of questions like "Is obeing a dream?" or "How can i afford obes with the rope tech ?", etc what kind of questions and discussions would we have? I really dont see any more deep than that...

Maybe the discussions would be around on topics like:
"catching negs"
"detailed descripyion of the planes that i visited"
or topics about very specific aspects about chakras
or topics about discussions related with theorys on the nature of AP

but this topics should be seen by others. I mean, maybe they are boring because they can be very specific, but i really like to know some very specifics things like "detailed descripyion of the planes that i visited".

So, in order to solve this problems, i have an idea:
-every people in the forum, at least for a month, since the paypal method start or since the begining of that person in the forum (for a month too) could visit the paying forums for free.

After that they should pay, let´s say, 5$ just for visit the forum. I mean, if you think that it is unfair for people visiting for free the forum (just visit), so they should be some little amount, like 4 or 5 bucks.

This are just some ideas. I think that i will not pay anything because i dont like the idea of paying things in the net, but if Adrian were my neighboor, i would pay for the forum (10$ it´s little money for a whole year), because i would give him personally the money.

btw, the paypal does it exist in Europe?

[daem0n]

i do see a few problems here:
1)i don't even know what paypad is(europe), also i have no account nor credit card and i'm paranoid about paying in the net, that's personal reasons
2)subscribers forums should be visible to everyone(newbies watching them can't lower their quality), but paying when you want to contribute something misses the point, let's say that i found good way to oobe, now i have to pay 10 $ to tell others about it, why bother ??
3) lowered quality generally means seewing(pardon my english) through short topics like huh, kundalini, help me with (insert name here), that's really no big deal, and specific discussions blossom all over the place, eventually moderators may delete posts not contributing to the topic, but we have decisions here and we are only human, after all
4)why energy development and psd are left out, they are equally important
5)why not banners ?

[CptPicard]

After reading everyones posts it makes total sense.

The forums as we see them now will stay exactly the same with the same topics and no charge.

However for those whom are more involved/experienced in OBE etc will pay $10.00 for an additional area which subscribers "can enjoy a very highly focussed, and strictly moderated range of forums" which means it's moderated much more strictly. The last thing subscribers want is someone asking how to OBE! that's for the non-subscribers section.

I think it's a brilliant idea!  I will be paying my $10 bucks.

However I do have only one concern!
With all the more experienced people subscribing for the additional moderated section, will the less experienced people's questions be neglected?

[LogoRat]

That was one of the most stupid ideas ive ever heard!
To make people pay for a forum access.

I dont like the idea of registrating my true identity on a forum.
Adding my PayPal id to this forumname i have is something i would never do.

Lots of people like to be anonymous on the internet.
Making this not possible in a forum like this is just stupid.

I know that the user will not get my true identity, but you as administrators have a nice little database over every individual on this forum.

You will earn money on information that isnt even your ideas, you just admin the forum, and that is not something that is very hard to do.

Either you continue your work, or someone else can takeover.
Making people pay to limit the amount of threads is just a stupid stupid idea.

Lots of people are getting interrested in obe's and such.
Not very strange that many people are coming to your forum to post threads etc.

DONT limit people!
I will never give out my true identity, nor will i pay for reading and posting on a forum.
A chat i could understand..but a forum, come on!!

Bad idea!!
Very stupid!!

[CptPicard]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

That was one of the most stupid ideas ive ever heard!
To make people pay for a forum access.

I dont like the idea of registrating my true identity on a forum.
Adding my PayPal id to this forumname i have is something i would never do.

Lots of people like to be anonymous on the internet.
Making this not possible in a forum like this is just stupid.

I know that the user will not get my true identity, but you as administrators have a nice little database over every individual on this forum.

You will earn money on information that isnt even your ideas, you just admin the forum, and that is not something that is very hard to do.

Either you continue your work, or someone else can takeover.
Making people pay to limit the amount of threads is just a stupid stupid idea.

Lots of people are getting interrested in obe's and such.
Not very strange that many people are coming to your forum to post threads etc.

DONT limit people!
I will never give out my true identity, nor will i pay for reading and posting on a forum.
A chat i could understand..but a forum, come on!!

Bad idea!!
Very stupid!!

Actually your answer is the stupid one! you obviously haven't read Adrian's and everyone elses posts correctly.

THE SUBSCRIBERS SECTION IS AN ADDITION. WHICH MEANS ALL TOPICS THAT YOU CURRENTLY SEE WILL REMAIN THE SAME.
BUT SUBSCRIBERS WILL HAVE A HIGHLY MODERATED SECTION WHICH MEANS THEY DON'T HAVE TO SEE NEWBIE POSTS LIKE "HOW DO I PROJECT"

Next time try to read through all the posts and understand what Adrian is saying before you start being offensive.
And your post is probably the perfect example of why they want a subscribers section which is highly moderated.

[Lighthouse]

I'd gladly pay $10.00 to have an annual membership tp AP, whether especially if it will increase the quality of discussions in some of the forums.  

I love AP and many people who I have met here.  Each week I give in many different ways to people who I love and ideas that I believe in so this makes perfect sense to me.  

Additionally, I like the idea of keeping thise limited forums available for viewing to un-subscribed or free members because that will encourage people to want to participate in higher levels of growth, sharing and conversation by subscribing in order to share in these strictly moderated forums.

Kerri

[Jonas K strand]

hello!

many here says that "the forums we have now will remain the same".
that sounds good but i dont think its true on the actual level.

it maby seems very harmles, only ten dollars... better discussions.
i think it is indeed very harmful for the forum that will loose its greatest treasure. the most advanced practioners.

bat at the same time, if these people is not willing to help others there is no way to maintain this forum universal and for all. in my eyes this is the very big step from universal to sectarian.

a special forum for americans with paypal(?) over eighteen and so on.
one place where the stupid, afraid and/or poor ones can fumble around, and one for the whitetrash. unfortunately, that is the signals this thing gives me.

i am very disapointed but if this is what the majority wants, sure.
at least i will drop of from the second best forum on the internet.

/jonas

[CaCoDeMoN]

I think that it would be no problem with payment, but in many countries like Poland, other western europe countries and all third world countries Paypal is not available. It would be unfair to divide forum members into classes, making some "elite" better than others, because they do not live in US, or do not have enough income to get a credit cart.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you just delete the fluff forums (magic, religion, etc.) and then just heavily moderate the forums taht you want.  You don't have to charge money, that is just shperf.  By deleting the fluff forums you eliminate all those people who would only join for those reasons.  They can talk about Christianity on other sites.  Don't charge money, but just focus on what you want to talk about, astral projection.  Money ruins most things.

[Rastus]

LMFAO!!!

Fluff forums he calls them, just too funny.  So this site is only about Astral Projection?  Did you even read the founders books?

Sigh, there I go again attacking.  I appologise (as opposed to backspacing).  For those not as enlightened, it's all the same thing.  AP/OOBE is just a facet of bio-energy work.  So is magic(k), healing, divination, kinesis, voyance, and other esoteric topics, simply facets or outgrowths of energy work.  If someone isn't interested in debating fallacies in the bible, then don't go into those forums.  Be thankful that's mostly what's being discussed and not the nature of god(s) in general(that's (Quantum) Metaphysics!)

Perhaps the ability for a user to block posts by other users?  I mean is a PHP display the page sort of way, that way really offensive people will get noted and ignored by the majority?  No audience and the trolls go away.  The same for people looking to make a fast $$$.

[CaCoDeMoN]

Western Union money transfer costs about 20$, and 20+10$ is not as small amount of money in Poland that it is in US. And think about Ukraine, where average teacher earns 35$ per month....

[LogoRat]

CptPicard

You didnt understand my views at all, i can tell.

Everyone has right to their own opinions, so i will not complain your judgement.

I just dont think splitting up one forum to a paying forum and a non paying forum is a good idea anyway.

I want to read everything and participate without paying anything.
I just dont agree with their ideas, and i have a view on why i dont.

Making people pay for a forum is just stupid.

AND WHY SPLIT UP A FORUM AND SEPARATE THE USERS FROM EACHOTHER.

Think like this, newbies will never get their answers, because the payees members will not even look at it, they want to hangout in their own little corner.

[Kane98969]

Hello everyone, I have a few opinions on the subject that I would like to voice.  

I personally couldn't become a member to the advanced forums because I'm not owning a credit card, but I understand why people would want to and voted yes.  The part that concerns me though is the fact that all of the older (more advanced) members will move over to the new forums, wheras I've always seen the internet as an outlet for a mentor/student relationship.  It is through the mentors' postings and thier inspiration that the "newbies" or "fluffbunnies" of our world can see by example and move to higher vibrations.  

The result of the segregation would cause mass missinformation which would be counterproductive to the longterm goals of worldwide awareness.  

At the very least I think the forums should be visible to all so that they can atleast see and learn from the discussions going on in the new forums.  Also, although this has nothing to do with your decision Adrian, I think the older memebers would have to keep an eye out on whats being posted in the forums by the younger memebers to avoid too much confusion/stagnation.  I feel that the information we post leaves an impression on the world and if it gets too bad it will become another psipog(which was shutdown because of too many fluffbunnies).

Thats my 2 cents, but other than that I say go for it!

[RainyDaze]

Approximately two years ago I joined this board, I was an avid reader, and would post very rarely.  I felt a part of the community and very much enjoyed the astral pulse.  As of late, I have almost completely stopped even visiting.  I used to enjoy the intelligent and thoughtful posts.  It was very sad to see one of my favorite thought provoking romping grounds develop into its current state.  It got to the point that it just wasn't worth it to sift through the massive amount of posts to find the occasional gems, when it seemed that they were all gems in the past.

Another problem with the current setup is that as a community the discussions develop and make a progression of there own.  People develop with the discussions.  If the community becomes too large, you just cover the same ground over and over again, without any real progression.  That is where subgroups are needed and that is what is being proposed.

***I think it would be a great idea if all were able to read the posts but only members were able to do the actual posting.  Therefore all would have access to the more mature area, and not feel left out, but the clutter would be greatly reduced.***

I might not have as much clout as others because of a minimal amount of posting but I have been around for a while (30 July 2002) and have read many many posts.  I was driven away by the problem you are attempting to resolve, so hopefully it happpens.

Doing this by a strictly democratic vote might not be the answer either because there are going to be far fewer gems.

Another possibility could be a folder in the members area that newbs could have access to and would show up to the members.  So anytime they felt like doing some community service they could field those questions.

I miss the community - pls help.

~joe

[funinfloating111]

well i do understand why you would do this i have only one objection, im only 16 and my mom thinks this stuff is "hippie crap". she thinks its a waste of time and wouldnt let me pay for it. but in two more years i would.

[pyro4571]

i will leave if i gotta pay
i am broke...........

why not just regulate it to older members only.
ones that have shown that they can hold a good discussion. and if they mess up, you can ban them from the forum.
it could be like a thing where if you want on there, you gotta ask a mod or adrian.

just a thought...

[Jonathan]

Hello Adrian,

I voted no on splitting the forum into two.

An interesting point has been brought up in this thread; why doesn't RB post more on the forums?  I understand he has new responsibilities now (ei a whole group of people to give personal tutoring and posting in another forum) but he should post more here, at least while he's resting in between books.  On this very topic for example I would very much like to hear what he has to say.  As I recall the forum wasn't originally a subscription only forum, through the old www.astraldynamics.com site there was a much less sophisticated forum, before you took the reigns of the site, much fewer members, yet RB was already complaining about people's behavior once it started to grow.  I recall some very heated debate regarding some Posts by Romero C. and Robert getting upset by this.  Unfortunately, none of us can escape the inevitable reality that, however much we like to believe otherwise, that value and number people are inversely related.  You cannot seriously expect to have 10, 000 people in the forum and have it be high quality.

[Phong]

RainyDaze, can you point out specific topics of discussions that were more "thoughtful" back then? I ask this because I don't think the thoughtfulness has decreased at all, just the sense of a small social atmosphere - and the two are not equated.

The lack of thoughtful discussion is no one's fault but your own (speaking to everyone). If there's something that's not being talked about that you want talked about, why don't you post? Make it specific so as to attract specific responses. Make it mature so as to attract mature responders. Make it thoughtful so as to attract thoughtfulness. Otherwise, take responsibility for your lack of participation.

We, you and I, can make the forum better by being positive, civil, and self-reflective. We don't need to resort to tribally devisive measures. We can have a diplomatic, pleasent global village. [Edit: That includes you, Jonathan, and the 10,000 others as well.]

[atalanta]

Hi,

I haven't voted yet as I would like to think about it longer.  What I write here is by way of reply but it is also me thinking out loud about the issue, be warned some fluff headed your way. []

I wanted to talk about a similar situation on another site and what has occured there as an example of what I think will occur here if this comes through.

This other site is a support group for people with anxiety, I am one of those who suffer this problem occasionally.  I joined the site when it had started to pick up members in larger numbers.  There was a lot of the longer joined members who had become accustomed to being part of the smaller group.  They had advanced in their healing as well so they felt out of place with all these new members.  To make matters even more difficult for these people, there was a sudden surge of young people joining so that the more mature people felt like they were losing their place.

The admin decided to create two forums, one remained a main board area where everyone could still visit while the other became a special site for those over 30.  Initially, few went to the 30+ group, but then suddenly it picked up members and pace.  Now if you go to the site, the groups are very clearly defined.  The main board which was for everyone is almost entirely made up of teenagers while the other is made up of 25+ approx.  The teenagers are getting very little in terms of advice, information, wisdom, etc.

Within the 30+ group, someone posted a thread which has become a little social niche.  Now even within that forum, there are people who do not visit outside that thread.  They get onto the computer and go straight through 'history' to select that specific thread.  So that there have been divisions within divisions.

I think it is false to think that this will not create division since its specific aim is to cause division.  Knowing the result on the other site, suggests to me that the same will happen here, that the less experienced will end up on the 'no fee' board while the more experienced will end up moving onto the other 'fee paying' area.  I don't think it will destroy AP but it will become one big 'fluff' site, it will loose credibility because any serious thinker who comes across AP will see the 'fluff' threads and think it to be not worthwhile.  However, I do understand how frustrating it must be for the more experienced members on both sites to be stuck having to sift through new members and 'fluff' posts.    

Personally, I wouldn't join this new forum as I don't have credit cards.  I also don't want to make it so easy for myself to become one of those people who thinks I am above or beyond others.  On the other site, I still visit the main board to answer questions of teenagers and although I visit the 30+ site more frequently, I haven't joined any of the niche groups.  There is just something so - well, human about wanting to form little groups of 'I's' as opposed to 'thems'.

MMMmm...I will tell you what, when Jesus, Ghandi, Mohammad, Buddha, etc, get together and form a special group for themselves because the rest of us are just too many and too 'fluffy' for them to cope, I will think this a brilliant idea.  Ooh, [:O] I think I just made up my mind.  I think its a 'no'. [xx(][]

Then again, the more experienced do deserve some special place of their own where they can unwind, be themselves and in their element, so to speak.  What to do, what to do...maybe, form a free forum for those who are very active, long term members, ie, 1000 posts and two years membership before being allowed into this special area.  Not sure about this.

By the way, the other site continues to succeed despite these divisions, in a way it made them even more successful.  Maybe, people will just adjust.  Maybe I should vote yes!  [}:)][]

Why are you asking me, I'm a Libra!  Never ask a Libra to make a decision!  []  Oh God, more fluff.  Sorry to those of you who bothered to read all of this.[:I]

[Selski]

(This is quite funny)

I've had 24 hours to think about my vote and am now ready to tick the box.  I think the advantages of the new section outweigh the disadvantages, so I'm voting yes.

However, yesterday I clicked on Show Results to see how it was going, and I can't get back to the voting buttons now!!

What do I do?  Help - I want to vote!

Sarah

[Rainbow]

Hi all

I have been reading posts as a non member for the last 6 months.  I feel that it would be a pity to a have a private section.  I have valued reading posts from those more experienced than me.

I really like the idea of a section that is by invitation only, but everyone would still be able to read the discussions.
Thats my 10 cents worth
Rainbow

[Euphoric Sunrise]

In all honestly, i'm not quite sure what to make of this at the moment. However, i must say that my initial reaction is that i don't like the idea, for reasons pretty much already stated. Really though, it all depends on what this new proposal does to the social environment of the entire board. There are a lot of possibilities, i'm sure, but the one that worries me is the prospect of seperation/isolation.

Before i post an entire point of view essay on this ([]) in interested in what kind of environment the mods envision within the new boards. Is it possible to get some examples of what kinds of topics you mods expect, what exactly is this high level of focus, and what you mean by "strict" moderation?

I'm still undecided so i won't vote just yet. I need to understand more about these forums before i cast my vote.