let's argue

[Anonymous]

"arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind."

No it's not.

" i think there should be more of it on this forum. friendly, of course but nonetheless fierce."

Well what if I don't? I have opinions too.

"someone bring up something (non-political) that would be contraversial and i will take up the other side of the argument."

Well what if I want the other side?

"it doesn't even have to be something you feel strongly about."

Yes it does. It says so in the unwritten book of rules.

" bring up an argument that you've recently had w/ someone that you've won or lost."

No.

"preferably one that you've won since you've obviously had the better case. let's have some fun."

Fun sucks. I say we all be miserable.




Sorry Fredhedd, couldn't resist! I was reading your post and thought of the Monty Python skit about the argument room. [] Actually that's not a bad idea. Okay, I'll try to think of something...

Okay, how about I give you a list of my opinions and you counter them.

I think aliens are real and I say they do exist.

I think weed is healthier than alcohol, when consumed in ways that do not involve smoking it.

I think that the reason seemingly random and/or bad things happen to us is so that we will fully understand the consequences of our actions and the actions of others. Everything happens for a reason, and fate does exist.

[fredhedd]

you had me going for a minute.  the first few lines i was thinking, 'did i tinkle someone off already?'  good job.

thinking that aliens could exist is acceptable.  firmly believing they do is not.  unless you've had some experience that has shown you that they do exist then it's not really safe to say otherwise.  taking things on faith is dangerous and will kind of give you a weak belief.  
w/ all of our capabilities it's still not been proven that aliens exist.  leaving aside the x-files bit and roswell stuff.  even though we've barely scratched the surface of universe exploration we haven't found life anywhere else but here.  anywhere.  that's kind of hard to go up against.  it just seems more likely that someone came up w/ the idea of aliens and a lot of people took to it.  right now there is the idea floating around that aliens exist.  now when events take place or discoveries are made that can't be explained it's just so convenient to say 'aliens'.  no proof man.  no proof is hard to go up against.   no proof w/ no experience is even harder.  to have a belief w/out one of those two is flimsy.

i don't think i can argue the healther bit.  that would just come down to science.  it either is or isn't.  

things happen because of a reason is more correct than things happen for a reason.  things happen because something made them happen.  not things happen because things are supposed to be  a certain way.  if you believe in fate then free will is out the door.  believing that free will doesn't exist would kind of make all of this pointless.  we would be here just to experience something that was already mapped out.  we couldn't really learn from mistakes that weren't ours in the first place.  if you believe in fate and free will then drinking a bottle of poison will only kill you if that was your fate.

if two people commit the same crime but one of them gets away w/ it then they each learn a different lesson.  one may learn that he feels what he did was wrong.  the other may feel the opposite.  they both may learn how to be better at the crime they committed.  either way the consequences aren't the same.  it's easy to think everything happens for a reason.  

say an event takes place 'a' which in turn allows even 'b' to take place.  it's easy to  think 'a' was supposed to take place because w/out it 'b' would never have been possible.  and since 'b' did take place 'a' had to have taken place.  that's illogical. it's just an easy way of thinking.  like laying the responsibility for unsolved mysteries to the aliens.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by EnderWiggin

"arguing is so damn fun and great excersize for your brain/mind."

No it's not.

EW: That's just contradiction, it's not argument.

Yours,
Frank

[lateralus897]

I'm going to take a stance on faith.

I believe that some degree of faith is necesary. It's sort of a temporary "just in case" until it becomes a known. Faith opens you up to the possibility of something's existence. I'll try a simple example.

I believe that we are all one. I do not know this of course, but I do strongly believe it. Without having faith in this idea, I would never open myself up to possibility and would have probably lived a life of defeat, thinking there is no point to life. If you think about it, it's kind of a battle between idealism and realism, with me taking the side of idealism.

[fredhedd]

i don't want to counter counters.  we could be arguing about the same topic for weeks.  and since these are topics that can't be proved scientifically, there really is no right or wrong.  

i do however want to keep arguing.  i'd like this thread to just continue on.  after the posts rebutting my argument are finished there should be  another topic brought up.  

anyone?

[Anonymous]

I think aliens exist based on the recent statistics that NASA gave for the ability for planets (or their moons) to sustain life. It doesn't mean that life necessarily can originate on these planets, it just means that it's possible to sustain life, because of resources like water and/or geothermal heat.

[goingslow]

my kind of thread.. here goes:

Like anything else the fanatics and crazy people made the whole UFO thing silly.

I believe there is life on other planets.. because of the fact we're so far from perfect.  The universe is infinite how could we possibly believe all that out there is only for us to view..
But have you ever seen those people who have been abducted 100 times?  they just want fame or are really crazy but they ruin a serious topic for everyone else.

I however think the government is right to keep it secret.  People who are normally the types saying "the goverment is hiding things from us they should tell us all" obviously are on the same level as the ones the goverment doesn't tell for a reason.  
REmember the war of the worlds fiasco?

When there's a threat from another country people get paranoid.  You see them calling for the government to protect us.  If we believed there were other life species out there they'd be terrified..  The last thing we need are weapons distributed on a wide level to fight aliens.  People fear the unknown.  even though they claim to want to know most people counldnt handle it.  

People are sheep.  everyone hates governments but all the government is are people who run a country.  Its people with power.. its not the government vs the rest of us.  Its people with power vs people trying to stop others from abusing that power.  

I cant stand people who act as if all people are good especially society except for the evil government.  Put your best friend as president or give them billions and have them in the top 2 percent of the world.  They'll be the same people you hate right now (thats for anarchy type people).

The free thinking intelligent people are in the minority.

[dino333]

My stance on aliens is that a year ago I thought that that Aliens were about as likely as OBEs. Well now, if OBEs are real, why not aliens.
Anyways, I think that Atlantis existed. Anybody want to prove me wrong?[]

[strwrs_guru]

quote:Originally posted by fredhedd

you had me going for a minute.  the first few lines i was thinking, 'did i tinkle someone off already?'  good job.

thinking that aliens could exist is acceptable.  firmly believing they do is not.  unless you've had some experience that has shown you that they do exist then it's not really safe to say otherwise.  taking things on faith is dangerous and will kind of give you a weak belief.  
w/ all of our capabilities it's still not been proven that aliens exist.  leaving aside the x-files bit and roswell stuff.  even though we've barely scratched the surface of universe exploration we haven't found life anywhere else but here.  anywhere.  that's kind of hard to go up against.  it just seems more likely that someone came up w/ the idea of aliens and a lot of people took to it.  right now there is the idea floating around that aliens exist.  now when events take place or discoveries are made that can't be explained it's just so convenient to say 'aliens'.  no proof man.  no proof is hard to go up against.   no proof w/ no experience is even harder.  to have a belief w/out one of those two is flimsy.

i don't think i can argue the healther bit.  that would just come down to science.  it either is or isn't.  

things happen because of a reason is more correct than things happen for a reason.  things happen because something made them happen.  not things happen because things are supposed to be  a certain way.  if you believe in fate then free will is out the door.  believing that free will doesn't exist would kind of make all of this pointless.  we would be here just to experience something that was already mapped out.  we couldn't really learn from mistakes that weren't ours in the first place.  if you believe in fate and free will then drinking a bottle of poison will only kill you if that was your fate.

if two people commit the same crime but one of them gets away w/ it then they each learn a different lesson.  one may learn that he feels what he did was wrong.  the other may feel the opposite.  they both may learn how to be better at the crime they committed.  either way the consequences aren't the same.  it's easy to think everything happens for a reason.  

say an event takes place 'a' which in turn allows even 'b' to take place.  it's easy to  think 'a' was supposed to take place because w/out it 'b' would never have been possible.  and since 'b' did take place 'a' had to have taken place.  that's illogical. it's just an easy way of thinking.  like laying the responsibility for unsolved mysteries to the aliens.

[Psypunk]

Here's one that ususally gets people riled up.

Assisted Suiside should be legal.  

Fredhedd...you can have the opening statement if you want.

(btw...if my replies are delayed it is becuase these next two weeks are going to be very crazy for me and I don't have much time to get on the internet)

[strwrs_guru]

Fredhead, you Are wrong. Life was found on another planet, albeit microscopically. Mars rocks were found to contain bacterial like life.......fossilized, but still proof that life is not exclusively on the planet earth alone. And if there is two planets in one solar system that have "life", the odds are in favor of it being elsewhere. I love to argue too, i think it helps expand my lateral thinking. e-mail me to let me know the times you are on-line.

[Mirador]

Don't waste your time, you ain't got much of it anyway. If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut.

[goingslow]

quote:Originally posted by Mirador

Don't waste your time, you ain't got much of it anyway. If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut.

*LOL* are you leading by example?  A little introspection wouldnt hurt..

[Psypunk]

"If you want to learn, better than arguing, look around you, and keep your mouth shut"

Mirador, your posts never cease to amaze me.  
Great advice, but after I'm done looking around me, can't I tell someone what I've seen and compare it to what they have seen, and learn that way?  When can I open my mouth? If you never want to talk about opposing points of view, then isn't that narrow minded? What is wrong with a quest for knowledge and understanding through discussion?  Isn't that one great thing about being human?  Being able to come up with different theories on life, perception, existence, good and evil, etc.. is what stimulates thought and makes us all unique. Are you mad at the world? Would you like to talk about it? Do you need a hug?

[fredhedd]

mirador, i can't tell if you are serious or not w/ all of these posts but i like them all.  anyone who talks excrement, blatantly makes an butt of themselves and doesn't care continously is alright w/ me.  it would be nice though if i could argue w/ you but you never say anything that makes any sense.  it also would be awesome if you really were this very smart person you are portraying yourself to be, and still acting like an butt, but i doubt it.  i would post excrement like that for fun all of the time if i didn't think i would eventually get banned from this site.  why don't you keep doing it and see if you get banned?

strwrs, i didn't know that they found life on mars.  that's really great.  for the record i do believe life exists outside our planet, but i will stick to my argument.

psypunk, that's a good topic but i don't know how good of an argument anyone can come up w/ opposing being in favor of assisted suicide.  that's probably me being overly confident though.  

a friend of mine once told me about a book he was reading on samauri's.  he said they used to kill theirselves when their time had come.  they woudl just kneel down and stab themselves in the stomach w/ their sword.  i think that is one of the most bad butt things i've ever heard.  

most people think that killing is wrong.  i believe that most of the people that say assisted suicide is wrong are only doing so because it's so easy to take a stand on it.  they have so many people to back them up.  half of them would probably change their mind if they sat down and thought it through.  

i'm not going to use the excuse about people who are suffering in pain would be better off, blah blah blah.  i think it's more of a - if you are sane, prepared for death and decide it's time to go, that you shoudl be able to do so.'  almost nobody is prepared for death.  almost nobody gets to choose when they move on.  bringing as much awareness as you can into dying is important.  you have a better chance at doing that if you choose when it will happen.  

if i'm not missing anything, all assisted suicides are due to the person being unable to carry this out themselves because of some physical condition.  if they could, they would.  

another good point would be that both parties involved are consenting to do this.  there isn't any 'wrong involved' until some outside party decides to call it that.  

also, i don't feel that you can make a firm opposition unless you've been in the situation yourself.  you can imagine all you like but first person perspective would really be something else.  everything takes on a different perspective when you are  the one experiencing it.  

and my last point which is impossible to counter:  if assisted suicide wasn't ok, god wouldn't allow it to happen.

[Anonymous]

I don't like the idea of assisted suicide. But I'm not going to stop anyone from it. God gave us free will, and we must use it for ourselves. Here's one for you. If assisted suicide should or should not be legal, what do you say about humans punishing each other and not leaving things up to karma? We ARE supposed to help each other in order to spiritually advance, but I don't think anyone should force anything on anyone else. If I saw someone being stabbed to death in the street and robbed of their money, I would certainly stop the attacker. I wouldn't just say "Oh well he's exercising his free will." But I would probably exercise MY free will to neutralize the assailant because I believe it is right to do so.

[A_Strong_Bond]

What a childish post.[)]

There is nothing wrong with a  good intelligent,respectful
DEBATE.
But argueing?

Fun?[?]

If thats what you want to do there are plenty
of
chat rooms in Yahoo or MSN where you could argue your head
off and stay hidden and anynomous behind the computor screen.

Personally I have better things to do.

Like making freinds.[]
Enjoying conversation.

Life is too short.

Marilyn

[eeb]

quote:Originally posted by A_Strong_Bond

What a childish post.[)]

There is nothing wrong with a  good intelligent,respectful
DEBATE.
But argueing?

Fun?[?]

If thats what you want to do there are plenty
of
chat rooms in Yahoo or MSN where you could argue your head
off and stay hidden and anynomous behind the computor screen.

Personally I have better things to do.

Hey Marilyn, why did you take the effort to make this post, if you have better things to do? If you like more intelligent and respectful DEBATE, why didn't you make an intelligent and respectful reply then? Why don't you TRY to start an intelligent an respectfull debate then?

Hey, different people have fun in different ways. With such a thread you'll see who are friends. Friends can argue with eachother without becoming insulting. A friend would respect the initiative of freddhead and give it a good shot!  

[goingslow]

I like when people put "this is a waste of time I have better things to do" in this thread.  I mean at least make a debate out of it.. but instead what you're doing is more like arguing.

Here you take the time to say you have better things to do but you take the time to do it and put it on this thread.

It really doesn't make anysense.  me putting this thing does because I have no objection to this thread.

A real objection would be to stay off it...or present an intelligent debate stating its a waste of time.  Just comes off as hypocritical to post on how much you enjoy making friends instead.

[Psypunk]

Fred...I said I believed in assisted suicide, so, i guess that's the end of that debate.  

As for the idea that we shouldn't punish people, and just leave it up to Karma...
I really don't trust people enough to allow that.  Everything in nature has a structured order that if it isn't followed there is a consequence.  Can you imagine the chaos if we had no structured form of system at all?  I think that victimless crimes shouldn't be considered crimes.  For example, drugs, assisted suicide, and prostitution.  People have enough common sense to not throw away their lives and send society into chaos if these things were legal.  
Just like our society didn't collapse when alcohol was legalized.

As for people coming on here and saying "Arguing is dumb"
it all goes back to the Monty Python skit.  "This isn't an argument, it's just contradiction"   "no it isn't"   "yes it is"  "no it isn't"   "yes it is"   Which is why I consider Monty python comic geniuses.

[A_Strong_Bond]

I was not the only one who made a comment to Fred
about argueing.

Why do people want to argue?

Life is too short.

I,ve gone to too many funerals in my short life including my
own brother last year.
I have no time for fights and meanness.
If you want to argue you,ll have to find someone else for
that.

But nice try Goingslowly!


Wishing you peace.

Pass along a SMILE today![]

Marilyn

[Anonymous]

I would just like to point out the differences between a DEBATE and an ARGUMENT:

A DEBATE is a civilized, intellectual discussion about the different aspects and viewpoints of a topic. It can have two or more different sides.

An ARGUMENT is when someone tries to prove which viewpoint is the right one to have on specific (or not-so-specific) issues.

An ARGUMENT is more likely found in chat rooms and in low-grade social environments or situations, while a DEBATE is more likely to be found on boards such as these, where people go to have intelligent discussions about things.

I think this thread contains more DISCUSSIONS than ARGUMENTS, despite Fredhedd's request for an argument. This is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

DISCUSSIONS are intellectual conversations about certain topics, and can be one-sided (but they don't have to be and often aren't).

[goingslow]

One thing i've seen you state enderwiggen many times which i think is not thought out at all is you think people shouldnt go to prison or jail.  And you were suggesting in that post above that you're exercising your free will to stop him but he's exercizing his free will to stab her; you just happen to think its wrong so you stop him.

People aren't put in prisons only for punishment. Often times its to keep society safer.  If we suddenly thought it was wrong to "punish" other humans would you want to live next to the murder's rapists etc?

Do you really think if there weren't laws against those things you'd be any more free?  Are you the strongest fastest man out there?  if not you'd be very limited in your freedom.  If there were no laws just think for youself who would gain power.  The moral citizen who doesn't commit crime even though its perfect legal?

Do you have sisters or a mom?  Lets say you stop the person from raping or stabing. theres no law against it so provided he doesn't stab you.. unless you keep holding him he'll be free at some point.  What if it was your sister he was stabing or raping.. theres no laws to keep him in jail so what.. he can go right back to her.  You might suggest you shoot him to stop him from coming back after her since its your right.  Then his family? What if they're ticked you killed him etc.

Have you seen the mentality when people are looting?  

Im just glad that people who state humans shouldnt imprison or there shouldnt be laws against things since its just karma and who are we to interfere aren't the ones making the rules.

One last thing that is very important.. No one is preventing someone from killing the first time.  No one is sayng people dont have free will.. they have the "free will" to kill or rape or steal.  But there are consequences in this life.  

I dont think you have kids now, and I realize children often aren't safe now.  But think about if there were no prisons and no consequences.  What would stop molesters from preying on children.  And if you say vigilantes after a while that becomes a form of law. The whole police thing started that way..

Ive just read you put that on various topics and have never commented.  Its good in theory and if you're ready to arm yourself.. and limit your outside excursions for those absolutely necessary.

[strwrs_guru]

this is fun........and o.k. i guess you could say we are debating, but at the same time i want to change everyone over to my way of []thinking[] so i guess you could also say im arguing. so if you would all kindly start agreeing with me, a strong bond and the others who are wasting their time can go spend it elsewhere.[]