Marijuana - Once in a lifetime ...

[Adrian]

Well - I don't smoke, rarely drink, and have never, ever partaken of illegal substances (call me boring), but my opinion is that any hallucinogenic substance used during these activities will produce a commensurate resulting level of reliabibility and usefulness - i.e. to the detrimental side.

I would question whether his awareness is *really* alot greater, or that it is just an illusion? I don't think the word is trance but "trip".

Same goes for projection from this state, would you really trust any apparent degree of objectivity at all? And it has been proven that "trips" of this type are not actually Astral journeys as such, but rather inner hallucinogenic creations in origin.

I never stand in judgement of things like this, and if people want to ingest drugs to check out the effect, then go right ahead, but I really do not think that the use of such substances has any place in a proper developmental energy, projection or spiritual path.

Just my humble opinion  

[Rob]

Well now, I certainly have enough experience in this area (hallucinogenic Adrian?? Naa!). Yes, the ability to move energy around can be greatly hightened, as are energy sensations, but if done in the long term, has a serious detrimental effect. Because it can put you in a kind of no-mind state, it could be said your awareness is increased, but concentrating on any one thing may be difficult (though i cannot remember what it was like when I first started smoking pot, don't any more, but did heavily for years). And no, getting stoned once will not harm you, in any long term way. My own point of view is that it is a good thing to try something like pot, if only once, because it expands your horizons of experience. This also applies to any drugs which do not have long term effects (eg shrooms but not E). Basically, I don't see it as such a big thing as some people would!
After eating a lot once, it seems like I shifted into the etheric body - ie like a permanent trance. On that note, yes I find it is very very easy to get into a trance when stoned. Perhaps this will help you, ie if you can experience being in a good trance state when stoned this may become remembered, making it easier to get into such a state in the future.
Also, if you don't want to smoke, I would recomment eating it - the high is much cleaner and purer, without all the groggyness of smoking. But then it depends on how long you want to stay up for, most first timers only feel effects for a couple of minutes tops, so you are safer that way.
But whatever, do or don't, is only your choice

[Adrian]

Spoken as a true authority on the subject Inguma

I would just say that I wasn't taking any sort of moral stance in my previous posting, rather my own personal position.

However, I do believe (correct me if I am wrong) that some Shaman use mind altering substances in their work - so I guess there must be something in it. I wouldn't doubt a Shaman!

[Tir13]

*Still laughing*

Well, if you really want to do it go for it, I mean no one is going to really stop you...but just consider this.  1) It creates lop-sided training, the only real way to get consistent results is to TRAIN and practice like the rest of us, ya big cheater hehe.  2) You may be tempted, in the future, to use weed to achieve that state just because it is so easy.  Be careful of that.  It's your decision...have fun, and if you see/do something that scares the crap out of you...well...heh, "told ya so".

Later,
Jason

[Adrian]

Yes, that has to be the entire issue here.

One should develop inherent and potential natural capabilities in all of these things.

Relying on mind altering substances, or any other prop, even assuming it produced a genuinely objective result (doubtful in my view), will cause a reliance on that prop in future. It is all an illusion.

The problem is, one such an illusion could be conveniently interpreted as a great result, and your true path is lost - otherwise it becomes wavy with red spotted mushrooms groing in the cracks

[Rob]

"Spoken as a true authority on the subject Inguma"
ha yes, with all the pros and cons this entails.

"I would just say that I wasn't taking any sort of moral stance in my previous posting, rather my own personal position"
Sure! And when I mentioned people who see it as a 'big thing' I was actually referring to those like my dear mother, who would have a heart attack if she found out what most my social and not so sociable life has consisted of for the last few years!

"However, I do believe (correct me if I am wrong) that some Shaman use mind altering substances in their work - so I guess there must be something in it. I wouldn't doubt a Shaman!"
Quite right, people all over the world have used drugs for their often magickal qualities (which are not always purely chemical...). Personally, the most intensely mind blowing invocations I have ever done (which isn't saying a huge amount!) were when up on weed which was evidently spiked with something like acid (man that was a good night, but I felt very sketchy the next day!).
Then there is peyote et al for the native American Indians, licking frogs in Africa (and in magick brews), astral broomstick journeys for witches (powered by stuff like deadly nightshade no less...). And hey, ever wondered about the little men that live in toadstools??! And there is the highly spiritual stuff like Ibogaine, with little-understood curative effects for kicking addictions and relieving painful memories (similar to CIR methinks – if enough is taken it seems that abstract representations of these problem areas are lived out in an IBE environment)....I could go on, but you get the idea – I am very interested in this subject! Also, in my humble opinion, there are some very good things they can do, and results can certainly be got, if only to act like the carrot on the end of the stick to make you get there without chemical crutches.

But in the end, when all is said and done, they are rarely any more than stepping stones into other states and perceptions, not to be relied on but explored until their usefulness is outlived or outweighed by other factors. Which is not when I stopped smoking pot, and I paid a heavy price for it...literally and figuratively



Edited by - Inguma on 03 March 2002  00:32:53

[puddl]

yeah well .. I never said I would rely.
All I want to do is get into it once, so that I have 'experienced' the state.

I was thinking, since sensations would be much stronger within it
I might have quite a good chance of unblocking many areas and raising energy
quite effectively.

But of course I do not want to rely on it ... don't want to end up braindead.

[Pres Nevins]

I tried it sporadically in high school (way back when the decade began with an 8!) but got bored with it so I stopped. It never occurred to me to try it in combination with meditation, probably because when high I could easily just sit for a couple of hours staring at the fireplace going, "Whoa..." and that would be the sum total of my cognitive processes. Not exactly a sharp and clear state of mind.

Do what you like, I just found from experience that it blurred me out more than anything. These days I don't so much as drink alcohol or even coffee...how pure can you get?!

[observer]

As a person that has used pot, I can tell you that it is possible to do what puddl wants to do and I have done so.  For me, pot makes it almost effortless to work with NEW on both secondary and primary energy centers.  And it leaves lasting effects that make it quite easy to continue energy work more easily without the use of the drug.  

Unlike Inguma, I recommend smoking it rather than ingesting it for several reasons.  Firstly, smoking it produces the intended effect almost immediately;  In less than 10 minutes, you will be under peak influence.  Secondly, the peak does not last long - usually less than 15 minutes on the best stuff.  Conversely, when you ingest it, depending on what you eat it with, and how busy your digestion system is, it takes between 30 minutes and 2 hours to begin its influence.  And it takes quite a while to "come down" - sometimes hours.  Lastly, if you cook the pot into some foodstuff like a brownie, the dosage is not necessarily known because it does not distribute evenly and you may get a lot higher than you bargained for.  In short, the delivery mechanism is a control issue.  And given that you are working with life energy, taking the path that produces greater control is advised.  

I think that the main reason to discourage the use of drugs is that even if the drug is not physically addicting, psychological addiction is always a possibility.  There will be those without willpower who will continue to use drugs as their only method of spiritual discovery because they are too impatient for results.  And like any other drug, frequent use of pot will require raising the dosage to get results which could lead to personal harm (like lung cancer if you smoke it).   And there is also the possibility that you are not ready for the experience that the drug can provide - like putting a Cessna pilot in an F16.  Finally, it is a drug, and as such has impact on your physical body.  For starters, it raises your heart rate and blood pressure while under its influence.  If you are older, and/or you or your family have history of heart disease, it is probably not a good idea to use this drug.  I have not read this, but I suppose it is possible that some people may be allergic to some aspect of pot's chemistry.

However, in spite of all this, I still use it occasionally as a catalyst, and it seems to be a rather harmless thing for ME to do, and in fact it has been quite helpful with the development of many things.  In closing, I feel like the doctors that encourage daily ingestion of red wine in small doses for coronary health benefits.  Their fear is that whenever a respected authority recommends something, there will be those that go a bridge too far taking the advice and corrupt its intent. So since I have done nothing to earn your respect, please do not consider this post drug use advice.  I am just stating the facts of my experience.

[puddl]

Thank you for replying

Firstly, I do not respect traditional doctors.
Secondly, we rely too much on authority and no longer believe in listening to those
who have 'control' over the masses.

Your advice was really great, I think I will try some weed quite soon.
As soon as I get some, I shall try it, but will not overdo it.
All I wanted, was to try it out once, so that I know how it feels , I in no way
want to 'rely' on a drug for that is the wrong path.

Thank you again,

[puddl]

Also observer ......
You said if you eat it, it takes some time to 'come down'.
You mean the effect lasts long ?

I wouldn't like to be interrupted, I want to use this to get into a very deep trance
and so I can just unblock areas and gather lots of energy through quite some time
not 15 minutes ...

Thanks,

[observer]

quote:
Also observer ......
You said if you eat it, it takes some time to 'come down'.
You mean the effect lasts long ?

I wouldn't like to be interrupted, I want to use this to get into a very deep trance
and so I can just unblock areas and gather lots of energy through quite some time
not 15 minutes ...

Thanks,

Being a controlled substance where quality is an unknown, there is no way that you will be able to be certain of dosage no matter what the method of delivery.  This means that you will not know how much to smoke or how much to eat.  In short, trying pot once will be a crapshoot.  You may not even get high if the pot is weak.  I cannot and will not guarantee that you will be able to do anything energywise even if you do get high.  I have significant energy management abilities WITHOUT pot and am speculating that pot only enhances that ability.  

If you do get high, you will find that energy management capabilities will not be the only thing that is enhanced.  You will probably fall prey to the kid in the candystore syndrome;  Your analytical capabilities will have you following an avalanche of new realizations at breakneck speed.  Your awareness of your body is so intense that you may find it uncomfortable, or profoundly sensual. You may find that you'll be doing everything but energy development.

[bro_flamo]

I don't know if you'd even last after your first puff (tsk tsk...) BTW while you may think that this would be a benefic to you in achieving new heights you're using a drug as a guide into your trance. Thats CHEATING!

do what you like anyway, its your life, you make your decisions, I'm only giving you an advice. I don't need drugs to see to it I get results, I've seen my results already (servere side-effects)

flamo.


Edited by - bro_flamo on 04 March 2002  02:22:27

[puddl]

pfft ..
flamo, you have not astrally projected ..
You do not understand flamo.
This is about giving your body the experience of TRANCE once, in order
for it to have experienced it ONCE.
If it has been experienced once, it is a lot easier to get back into this state
WITHOUT THE AID OF a 3rd party drug.

[puddl]

Observer ...
I wrote you an email .. to observer_@hotmail.com
Could you please check it asap ?
Thanks.

[bro_flamo]

quote:
pfft ..
flamo, you have not astrally projected ..
You do not understand flamo.
This is about giving your body the experience of TRANCE once, in order
for it to have experienced it ONCE.
If it has been experienced once, it is a lot easier to get back into this state
WITHOUT THE AID OF a 3rd party drug.

you just don't get it do you....
in your eyes you're saying this 'I need that drug so BAD!' so you can get into trance, disrespect.

you don't need drugs to get into trance, yes it may take longer to develop, but at least I know i'm naturally aspirating my physical body into that state. How could you be certain that after doing it once, you won't do it again without the drug? Life's a mystery I guess....

flamo.



Edited by - bro_flamo on 04 March 2002  11:35:36

[puddl]

Well, it isn't for the weak minded, like you say.

[cainam_nazier]

Puddl,

Me, I wouldn't do it.  The question here is control.  Would you be able to?  The mind can be a dangerous thing and one should always excerise extream caution when dealing with it.  Any substance that alters the mind is dangerous.  However you know your own mind better than anyone else.  It is known that any mind altering substance inhibits a persons, how to put it, moral responsibilty.  Your right from wrong can get impaired.  So what you do when projecting, meditating, energy work, and so on could prove harmfull to you or people you know.  Just food for thought.

"Control, you must learn control!"
so says master yoda.



David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[observer]

I wonder why it is that so many who admit no personal knowledge of this issue feel compelled to take a stand on it.  Very puzzling.  This was one  of the central points of Robert's book - not to judge or assume anything without personal experience.  I can understand the reluctance to try a drug because it obviously represents the unknown to you no matter how much you've read about it.  But that doesn't automatically translate to a requirement to have a negative opinion on the subject.

[Adam]

Hey..

This is a subject in which I've got a fair bit of experience in ;P

Smoking weed and doing energy work etc. definitely has its good and bad points. I did it for a while, but stopped smoking weed (well, cut it down drastically) recently as I realised it wasn't really getting me anywhere; it's just really a short-lived, artificially induced awareness, and because of this, it has it's downsides. But that said, it certainly boosted my awareness/sensitivity of my energy body. When high, I could move my awareness about and feel in incredible detail the area I focused my attention on. Plus it seemed to give me greater control over it.

The problem with using weed to get into the trace state, is that weed basically affects (for me) the anylitical part of the brain, and you start to get ideas and realisations, sometimes a whole gosh darn heap of them. This is probably the best of weed...altho often, with most of the realisations you'll be like..."Huh?"  =P

But that's just me...I'd say - yeah, go ahead and try it once. It's a natural drug, and a lot safer than the manufactured stuff around. The worst that can happen is a bad case of paranoia - but if you're in the right situation, with the right people (or maybe none) then it's less likely you'll have a bad time.

Check out marijuana.com and ask the peeps there for advice.


---
BTW, it's only really a short term solution - but it can give you the little bit of insight you need.

[andy]

Hi Puddl,

I know nothing of your age or background but i'll toss in my two cents on the matter as i've got plenty of experience both at the begining and end of this subject.
There is some good advice in the above posts.But something I suggest you look into before taking that leap of faith is this: Your family tree,are there any alcoholics or drug users of the past? If so believe when I say genetics have alot to do with who you are chemistry wise.This could make a BIG difference in trying just once.
And:
Do you mind if on what ever level it is okay for drugs to enter your life? O" the simplicity!
Its just a couple of questions that you should ask yourself.
Never in my life have I met someone who said "im going to try it just twice" One time may be the intention but after the fact your veiw on the subject *might* change.
I personaly have not met a person who tried a drug only once though im sure they exsist.I have met a *few* who know the meaning of moderation or on occasion but most of those i've met or know were at one point abusive if not dependent on thier substance of choice/s at some point in time.[it creeps up on ya]

I say if you want to experience drugs go for it!
If you want trance,discipline,theres no substitute.

" A man with no martial arts ability can fight like Bruce Lee while under the influence of P.C.P.Does this mean a white belt in training should go out and smoke some dust?"

Just my take on the matter.

Peace,Andy

[Dog Faced Liar]

Ha
 
Gettin High

Ok first, I have seen some pretty strange things, while just smoking weed.

Secondly, if your going to smoke weed do make sure you are in the right environment.  
                    - comfortable atmosphere
                    - right type of music

An interesting experience is listening to live music, even if it is  taped, like a concert while high, if you have a sony play station and  you can have it so it has the function that goes along with the music  use it. I have seen some pretty strange things in that.

If your going to ingest have it in brownies or chocolate chip cookies you want something with a fat content.

  Have seen my alarm clock float, while on brownies!

I have been wanting to get into trance music if anyone knows of any good trance, ambient or acid jazz albums that doesnt have any lyrics.
It would be greatly appreciated if you could leave your suggestions.

Thanks

[Florian]

Hey Puddl,

I tried weed a couple of times, and had some strange fx, but I pretty soon stopped it, as it didn't give me as much as other ppl told me it would. Plus I'm nonsmoker usually

In my experience, practice is the only valid thing to get your skills better. Pot doesn't change your system, so shure, you can try. But you get into trance about everyday just before being completley asleep, so...

Just try to stay away from LSD & co, as they can radically change your biosystem. I personally know of a case where a person, that had LSD once b4, got a near lethal dosis of anaesthetics and was still wide awake (so better be honest if a doc asks you about drugs before surgery )

just my 2 cents

take care !

[Bhikku]

I will admit that I am an avid toker and have been for many years. I have been cutting back a lot recently, and hope to one day stop entirely. My advice to you is this= try it, but don't try to do any spirtual training or NEW while high. There are a few reasons for this. 1. You don't want to confuse anything as far as your energy raising/awareness and just being high. 2. You more likely than not will be laughing your butt off for 2 hours, and won't be able to take anything seroiusly. So my advice is try it, that way you can preach on how bad it is, or how great it is, WITH having actual first hand experience. Then if you wish to continue your NEW exercises or whatever, incorperate the 2. This way you can see the individual effects of each, then of the 2 togehter. Happy stoning!

"Look within, thou art the Budda"

[Winged_Wolf]

Some drugs and alcohol can lower inhibitions, which can temporarily increase a person's facility with psi.  But any extended use, or higher doses, IME invariably reduce facility with abilities.  In some cases, some drugs can cause permanent damage, such as LSD.
It's a temporary, illusory effect--it's the lowering of inhibitions that causes the increase, not the drug itself.


--Winged Wolf