Martial Arts

[Anonymous]

If you're looking for self-defense, Tai Chi is good. It is practiced fairly slowly but in combat is almost invisible to the eye because of how fast it is performed. Kung fu is also good but is practiced fast. Kung fu also has the aspect of chi energy. Chi kung is also good for just raising chi. There are hundreds of types of chi kung, so you're likely to find what you're looking for.

[Fat_Turkey]

Thanks. I just have to have a look around town for different dojos, but I think they only teach Kyokushin here []. Not that it won't help me develop chi/ki. My friend, Sam, does it. He says that they use Kai with every attack, which I understand is the same as Chi.

Thanks again
-FT

[Terry B]

Isn't kai/kiai the sound you make when attacking? The sound that come out from the hara/dantien place. Although I understand that indirectly it may direct your force from your center to your strike somewhat.

I don't think karate is involved with the chi/ki aspect much. They are more focused on the mechanical aspect like correct execution of technique. Then again this come from someone who never finish karate (I become bored and frankly speaking it doesn't bode well with my personality).

If you're interested with martial arts that develop life energy there are more suitable martial arts like Kung Fu, taichi, HsingYi or Bagua. There are any type of kungfu. Well taichi is excellent but can take a long time to master. Today, most of them teach a diluted version of tai chi which doesn't emphasize much on the combat aspect.

[Anonymous]

It seems that kung fu is one of the toughest styles to master. This is because it is very intense. It is physically exhausting and very painful, and can also be mentally exhausting at times. But it is necessary because they cover every aspect of martial arts, from sparring and grappling to meditating and raising chi energy. They also do conditioning of the body so that, not only do practitioners of kung fu learn to strike, they also learn how to take a strike. If you can find a good Tai Chi teacher, then stick with it. If what Terry B says is true, you'll want to hold on to a good teacher. There aren't too many out there. Many martial arts schools, especially in countries like the U.S., have been watered down. Some schools get rid of the traditional stuff, thinking it is unimportant, but they are wrong. That stuff was practiced for a reason and should be passed down, lest it be lost forever.

[Fyrenze]

I have decided that by this coming September I am going to take up a martial art. The benifits are clear; living it the city it's good to be able to defend yourself, but that really has little or nothing to do with why I want to learn.

First, as an actor, one who is working towards certification to be an "Actor Combatant," I want to get my body in much better shape than the general (hate to say it) American is. I need to fully realize my body's potential so that my subconscious will learn what my conscious already knows - my brain complains that my muscles are tired long before they actually are running out of energy. If I ever would work my muscles to the point where they can literally do no more, they would just shut down momentarily to rest. This is how they are designed. If you know anyone who has trained for the Olympics, they could describe it to you. No harm comes to your muscles from this, it's just our body's way of letting you know you've reached your maximum potential for that particular session.

Secondly, and even more importantly, I want to center myself. I think the right martial art will help me get closer to the oneness of mind that I've attempted to achieve through meditation. I think it would also improve my focus and motivation.

And one that teaches you to interact with universal energy, well, all the better.

Right now, I'm leaning towards aikido.

][\/][

[Terry B]

Tai Chi in its pure form is a great martial arts. One of the greatest actually.  But it has been watered down much. I can't remember now but if I'm not mistaken they have 100 something form and now it become 20 something or 30 something. Sorry but it's been a while.

As an example most don't teach how to escape from wrist grab/lock as a move. Now in karate we're teached how to escape from that by flicking the wrist in some way but some of todays tai chi don't teach it and the tai chi exponent need to use his energy in some way to get loose.

The fact that most people nowadays only learn tai chi for health purpose some instructor just teach that part. However if you can find a master that can and want to teach it as a martial arts i suggest just go for it.

[strwrs_guru]

Fyrenze,


 Akido may not be the oneness you are thinking. I am not a pro, but i also looked into the martial arts and was told that akido is more of an offence style. I am not sure this will bring you into a more peaceful type of mind. But again I am not sure......come to think of it, i was told this by the teacher of another style, he could of been bad mouthing the other style.

[Terry B]

Some of my friends take aikido and sometime I go to their dojo to watch them train. As far as I can see, aikido is avery peaceful style. Not much offence. In fact they always wait for another to attack first and counter using throw, lock etc. No punching, kicking like taekwondo, karate or other strike based arts.

So it's hard for me to see that aikido is more of an offensive style. Unless your friend is talking about the kind of aikido that is used by Steven Seagal in his action movie (which is not really aikido in the purest sense). They did train very much in the correct method of falling which can be categorised as an offense to oneself...[]

[Fyrenze]

Yes, Terry, that was how I understood it too, aikido is largely manipulation of a person's momentum.

[Fat_Turkey]

From what I hear of Aikido is that it's not so much fighting as it is using your opponent against himself. The whole object of a conflict in Aikido is to defuse the anger your opponent has by using his attacks against him and he should give in. Somebody 3x your size could be toppled over with a broken arm if you are good at Aikido. I also know that Aikido believes heavily in ki (chi) and uses it nicely.

I'll keep looking for schools.


Later
-FT

[strwrs_guru]

i guess thats what i meant when i said offenceive style.......you use the opponents body against himself, but the whole purpose is to stop the opponent as quickly as possible, i.e. break something.that doesnt seem defensive. you could just as easily throw him to the ground a couple of times without altering their lifestyle for a couple of weeks or for life. if you break something the right way, it will never be the same again.

[tronic687]

I've been very into martial arts for over a decade, and done more than one thousand hours of research.  I woudln't take martial arts at any dojo, dojo's usually aren't any good.  They may help with some basic skills for the average person, but practicing on your own to get the genuine arts is better.  First off, no karate systems use energy like chi, if they claim to, then it is not a real karate system.  Aikido is a system that uses energy, although there is no attacking, it is the way of harmony.  Bagwazhang, or Bagua, is a martial art that focuses on circular attacks and defenses, into energy, it is not my favorite however.  Getting a truly genuine martial art system that involves energy is very difficult, most is just a bunch of fake crap.  If you can find a taiji (tai chi) place, you might want to try it, however there are many many different kinds of taiji, most of which is just for healing.  IF you are looking for good taiji, check out www.taijiworld.com which has some good methods.  I will post more later but I have to go, hope that helps.

[x_wolf19]

Tai Chi whould be the best for what you are looking for probably, and is alot of fun and well worth the time and practice as strength, flexability, energy and so forth can be greatly enhanced.  All martial arts systems originally used some sort of energy system as well, but as said by many, that has been watered down to the point of where most of the poeopel that teach it, really don't know how to do it themselves.

So goes democracy, the way of making money, while not caring about what is important.

[Fat_Turkey]

All too true x_wolf, all too true. Traditional karate systems do, however, involve the use of kai energy, as is proved by my research and the very rare traditional karate schools out there. As far as I know, every martial arts has had, at some point, energetic influence and/or development. I guess I can try to find some tai chi, because even if a lot of styles are just for healing, it is energetic healing and it can greatly enhance the flow of my life energies.

Thanks for the feedback
-FT

[Rob]

When I was at school my judo teacher told me about a judo champion who was leaving a venue where she had just won a big competion - at least national, bigger I think. 3 of her friends decided to play a joke on her and jumped her from behind. She totally froze up and wasn't able to react at all to the situation.
I was listening to an aikido sensei on the radio just a couple of days ago who was talking about a big shot karate bloke who was walking down a dark alleyway when he felt a hand grab his shoulder. Spinning around and instinctively attacking he broke his assailants neck. Only it wasn't an assailant, it was his friend who was just saying hello.
My brother told me about an aikido master who was in Glasgow some while back. Walking down the street, minding his own business, 3 neds (local pikie/stig/misguided youth) jumped him from behind. He didn't even break his step. They were not hurt.

Aikido is much more peaceful and looks to diffuse a situation while defending all the parties involved. The more aggressive martial arts are geared towards defending yourself, at any cost.
For a warrior, the aggressive approach would work better on a battlefield (LOL can you imagine an aikido army coming up hand to hand against another army? It would look quite comical!! Like waves on an ocean, tossing people everywhere). But I think that for most, aikido is preferable.
That said, each to their own and all. I recently took up jeet kune do which is seriously sweet, a lot of fun. I would love to do aikido too, I might look into it when I go back to uni.

[Terry B]

Some people may be a champ in tournament but that does not make them martially aware. How many time you've heard of so called black belt beaten to a pulp by a street thugs?

My karate sensei told us about the story of his friend (a champ) being in a fight with someone who apparently is not of any martial arts. To cut along story short, this "karate champ" punch the guy 2 or 3 time. But then the guy just beat him with just a punch. Apparently "the champ" is carried away by the way he train which is suitable for tournament but not real self defense. In kumite the karateka are supposed to concentrate on the correct execution of the tech. and usually just touch on the surface of the opponents body, retracting their punch to their side quickly and not go the whole way with the punch. This doesn't help him beat that guy.

[MJ-12]

Ia

[x_wolf19]

As said all martial arts have had energy work in them at one time or another.  

EVERY martial art came from China.  The first martial art was Chinese Kung Fu form the monks in the northern and southern monestaries.  THAT started it all.  People took what the learned from the monks, and adopted it into their own systems IE: Karate, Jeet Kune Do, TaeKwonDo, Aikido, and many others.  It ALL spawned from China.  All chinese martial arts still have some form of energy work in them so naturally ALL martial arts at least at one point have.

Cheers! and good luck with training if you get to that point!

[tronic687]

Martial arts were practiced all around the world in history.  The Europeans and the Asians both had martial arts, however, the Asian ones have obviously grown to be more popular.  There are a few different types of martial arts, usually just classified as hard or soft martial arts.  The hard arts are ones that rely completely on external and physical skill, such as Karate, TaeKwonDo, Muay Thai Kickboxing, etc, while the soft arts include things such as Taijiquan, Bagwazhang, Aikido/Aikijutsu, etc.  To clear something up, there is a lot of people who talk of the art "Kung Fu."  That is really something just made up, as there is no Kung Fu style.  Rather, kung fu is a general term given to many of the Chinese martial arts, as a general classification.  For instance, there is White Crane, Tiger, Monkey, Drunken Monkey, Mantis, Shaolin, etc. but they are all kung fu.  One does not learn "kung fu," but rather, one learns "shaolin kung fu" or something of the likes.  Kung fu can include soft or hard arts.

The hard martial arts are the most common these days.  These are for the people who want to learn to fight.  A man who has just gotten beat up who wants to learn to defend himself will take a hard martial art.  The most common of the hard arts are Karate and TaeKwondo.  These are probably the worst martial arts for fighting, they are filled with stylish moves and are flashy.  While a karate student does a form, it looks very pretty, and his techniques will look impressive, but for actual fighting it is almost useless.  The practical and proven hard arts for fighting are arts like Muay Thai Kickboxing and Brazilian JiuJitsu.  These arts are very effective.  Muay Thai is more focused on punches, kicks, knees, and elbows, while Brazilian JiuJitsu is more of an on the ground grappling art, but both are perfect for the average person who is a street fighter.

If you want to be a good fighter and show people how well you can fight, do not take soft arts.  The soft arts take a very long time to learn, and in the beginning stages are completely useless for fighting.  For example, if somebody has been studying Muay Thai for six months, they would have a much better chance in a fight than somebody who has been studying Taiji.  If these soft arts are studied deeply and practiced for a great deal of time, they become more effective than any hard art possibly could be.  Soft arts include the arts that work on energy.  Looking at Taiji first; Taiji was created in the Tang Dynasty as a cultivation method to achieve the Tao.  There are many stories of the origin of Taiji, but this is the first.  Many people afterwards started their own branches of Taiji, for the healing and fitness and for the fighting aspect.  The original Taiji of this world has been lost, so anyone who tells you that they have the original is wrong.  Taiji was the most superior fighting art in China for centuries.  If anyone has seen "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon," the fighting in that movie is all Taiji.  A man by the name of Yang Chao Fu (spelling is probably wrong) had what is closest to the ancient Chinese art in the 1900's.  Many reforms were made off of his, the most popular which was the Yang Cheng Fu branch, which is by far the most popular Taiji you will find today.  This branch is all slow movements, similar to the older Taiji, except this branch was only slow movements.  Many people do not know that older taiji used fa-jing energy, or explosive energy, so while doing the slow forms, one would suddenly have an explosion of energy then back to slow movements again.  This was what built up the fighting aspect of Taiji.  However, the taiji you will most likely find around today is just slow.  This is only good for keeping fit, while the forms are actually packed with martial moves, nobody teaches it and nobody can use it in a fight.  In actuality, true soft martial arts were not taught without true healing arts, however, this has long since been forgotten.  Your skills will not improve as much as they could have if you had learned the healing arts too.  For example, the martial artist would learn things such as the five elements, the acupuncture meridians and points, etc.
Dim Mak is an piece of all soft martial arts no longer taught, which is striking to the acupuncture points to cause damage.  This is where the infamous "one finger death strikes" come from.  Taiji originally had these too.

Aikido is a very smooth art.  It is the way of harmony, and its philosophy goes something like this.  If you are a stiff tree in a powerful storm, you might crack, but if you bend with the wind, you will be fine.  Aikido is one hundred percent non-aggressive, so in actuality aikido sparring competitions is impossible, since there are no offensive movements.  Some aikido schools teach the development of ki, but some don't.  Aikido would be a good art for you to take.

There was another category of martial arts, the cultivation systems.  These martial arts have all the abilities that you read about in books and see in movies, suddenly disappearing, reappearing in far off places, moving quicker than possible, flying, etc.  However, these people will absolutely not show these abilities off, and nor do they do the things people in movies do, such as kill others, steal, etc.  The cultivation systems are ways to improve your morality to obtain the Tao or Buddhahood.  You cannot find a dojo that teaches these sorts of things.

There is also a big thing many people are talking about, Chi Kung, or Qigong.  There are so many different so called qigong practices, it is impossible to count the number.  However, the original qigong was for cultivation also.  I would not suggest going to a dojo that teaches qigong.

The absolute best way to raise your energy and get the things you are after is to practice Falun Gong, which is a qigong cultivation method.  It is true cultivation that will help your life very much.  You can read the books on their website.  This has all the answers to any questions about your energy, and will certainly give you an increase in energy, far more than any other martial art of qigong.  I was researching some softer martial arts one day when I stumbled upon Falun Gong.  It is very good all of you should check it out at www.falundafa.com

I hope any of this helps you!

[Rob]

Hey Tronic!
Great post, and welcome to the forums. You sound pretty knowledgeable, and I have a few questions if thats ok....

First - why do you recommend practicing outside of a dojo? I would have thought everyone needs someone to show them the moves, sharpen their techniques and to practice with/against.
Second - what is your opinion of jeet kune do? My teacher has been doing martial arts since he was 3 (!!!) and seems to think its pretty hot. But I'm relatively new to all this, a bit clucless really []
Lastly - I am interested in bringing in real energy work, projecting punches before my fists, etc etc. Obviously, this type of thing will take a long time to learn, but what discipline would be best for this? You seem to be saying that falun gong is a good system to work with (cheers for the link, I'll get round to reading them books), but you also say "You cannot find a dojo that teaches these sorts of things." with respect to the crazy interesting stuff, which I guess is ultimately one of my aims. And incase you are wondering - I'm not out to hurt people or show off!

Cheers!

Rob

[tronic687]

Inguma, to answer your questions...
You think right about the dojos, having somebody to help you and guide you is a lot better.  However, in most dojos, the instructor either doesn't know the real art and/or is just trying to make money off of you.  If you want to learn TaeKwonDo, then I would suggest going to a dojo, I'm sure you could find one.  But for more "real" and technical arts, dojo's usually aren't good.  For example, a dojo that teaches "kung fu" wouldn't be very helpful.  You know this because I said earlier that there is no "kung fu."  So you would be learning a mix of arts or a fake art at this dojo.  But there are some dojos out there that are good, I'm just saying as a general rule that most aren't any good.
Jeet Kune Do is Bruce Lee's system that he made up, which incorporates many different styles together.  It is based off of Wing Chun Kung Fu, which is the only system Lee ever fully studied.  Wing Chun is a very effective art, and it is built for extreme close range fighting, much of it being only a head or two away from the opponent.  Jeet Kune Do isn't really its own art, it is more of a philosophy.  It basically is, "take what works"...But basically, Lee had it a system of techniques, but it is all easy modifiable, if you find a technique that works better than the one presented in Jeet Kune Do, Lee would have used that instead.  You might want to check out Jeet Kune Do, if the instructor is good and has real teachings it can be a very effective art.  Jeet Kune Do does not involve any energy work however, it is purely physical, also the same with Wing Chun.

And yes, dojo's do not teach the "crazy" stuff.  Do you think a dojo could stay in business if they advertised "learn to fly!" or "learn to break boards without any physical contact!" or "learn to knock somebody out before your punch reaches them!" Haha, people would think you are full of it.  Also, much of this crazy stuff isnt allowed to be taught to make a profit off of.

Falun Gong is a Qigong (Chi Kung) that does give you very good energy.  You will be able to do all that "crazy" stuff and much more after practicing it.  It is absolutely free of charge and everybody is more than welcome.  It is the best energy working system I have found.  If you go to www.falundafa.com - then go to the Books section and read "Zhuan Falun", it is the main book.  There are no dojo's in Falun Gong, it is a completely voluntary practice with no money involved.

Hope any of this helps, if you can find a Wing Chun dojo check that out, however this would require much much determination and lots of practice, as Wing Chun is completely useless for a real fight unless you are very good at it, in which case it is one of the most superior.  Be sure to check out the falun gong also.

[Fat_Turkey]

Hi.

I'm about to sign up for kyoukushin karate which in our town has a very traditional style of teaching that involves using energy and ki to attack with.

Now I'd like to know which martial arts develop life energy (chi, kai, ki, kiai, etc) the best. Tai Chi is apparantly very good but I don't know if I'm fit enough or whether I have the commitment just yet to take it up, and I don't even know if there is a dojo around here.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Later
-FT