Observation of the Obvious

[GodsProxy]

Most of what is going on in this reality can be observed by Obnosis - observation of the obvious, and requires no special powers or skills.

All it requires is an open mind, a willingness to look at some unpleasant facts, and throwing away or disregarding preconceptions.

It also requires an ability to start to spot when someone is manipulating you through your emotions.

This thread is dedicated to Observation of the Obvious - what have we missed observing which could be valuable to us.

Please could we try to keep the thread on topic and keep from filling it with junk so that people won't read it and will be chased away from this forum

One obvious thing is that this is Hell on Earth.

A definition of obnosis:

Knowledge by Observation, experiential knowledge, waking up and looking, learning by going to look, learning by doing, learning by watching others, as opposed to theoretical learning.

[Astral316]

I have to drive 45 minutes to get to the nearest Popeye's Chicken. Hell on Earth? You're tellin me.

[Thread Killer]

I've observed that some people appoint themselves as harbingers of ideas or movements, assuming the rest of us are too stupid to see the "truth"

[GodsProxy]

Can't you guys leave this thread for even 2 minutes without letting us discuss it constructively?

I mean common, Thread Killer, put your weapon back in its holster! I'm not saying you're the enemy, just be nice, OK?

I've observed that some people appoint themselves as harbingers of ideas or movements, assuming the rest of us are too stupid to see the "truth"

[Astral316]

Would you rather I point out that your obnosis isn't really an obnosis? I can do that, but I'd feel like a starved fish trying to sample the old, stale bait you like to cast out. Perhaps you could be more clear with the purpose of this thread? If it's to challenge your "Earth is hell" line, please state so. Otherwise I gave a perfectly acceptable obnosis of my own... Popeye's Chicken is rediculously far away yet they keep airing there commercials on my tv. Insignicant? Maybe. An observation that's obvious? Absolutely.

[GodsProxy]

Ok, lets start. If the US can spend trillions of dollars (One source says $3 trillion, another source with a running counter says $791,292,092,798) invading Iraq to flush out Bin Laden for killing a its citizens (2752 victims who died in the attacks on the World Trade Center) could they not spend a few billion to invade other countries to feed them?
Taking a random sampling from the web "THE United Nations now estimates more than 180,000 people have died in Sudan's Darfur from hunger and disease in the past 18 months."
Huh?? That's 18,000 per month, each and every month!
And the US is a nation of Christians who say Love Each Other. Jesus' only commandment was to "love one another".
You say it is ridiculous, the US invading to help another country. That is because we live in a world of hate and fear, not in a world of Love. I see things differently. Love one another.
By the law of obnosis, using this one example alone, I can see that there is something seriously wrong on this planet. How seriously wrong? Warning bells and alarms, that's how wrong.

[Astral316]

Non sequitur.

If Earth was hell, we'd see fire and brimstone, indiscriminate pain and suffering with no hope of peace or happiness for anyone. My life hasn't been fun and I sure as hell don't have a Pollyanna outlook, but even I can observe these things in other people and conclude that it's possible here. So it's not a biblical hell, nor is it any historical variation since they're depicted as proceding *this* physical existence. If Earth is hell, it would have to be a metaphorical hell and a metaphorical hell only. In that context, you'd have a valid case.

[CFTraveler]

I've observed that some people appoint themselves as harbingers of ideas or movements, assuming the rest of us are too stupid to see the "truth"

Yup.

[CFTraveler]

Ok, lets start. If the US can spend trillions of dollars (One source says $3 trillion, another source with a running counter says $791,292,092,798) invading Iraq to flush out Bin Laden for killing a its citizens (2752 victims who died in the attacks on the World Trade Center) could they not spend a few billion to invade other countries to feed them?
Taking a random sampling from the web "THE United Nations now estimates more than 180,000 people have died in Sudan's Darfur from hunger and disease in the past 18 months."
Huh?? That's 18,000 per month, each and every month!
And the US is a nation of Christians who say Love Each Other. Jesus' only commandment was to "love one another".
You say it is ridiculous, the US invading to help another country. That is because we live in a world of hate and fear, not in a world of Love. I see things differently. Love one another.
By the law of obnosis, using this one example alone, I can see that there is something seriously wrong on this planet. How seriously wrong? Warning bells and alarms, that's how wrong.

If we are indeed children of God (and God is all powerful, which how can he be not if he is God?) then this can't be hell, because God created it for us.  So unless you believe in a nonloving God, this statement can't support itself.  
I see every day people that help each other out of love, that do all kinds of sacrifices for what they believe is the greater good.  That's one side of the coin, and it's the one I choose to focus on.
You said a mouthful- "It's how I see it" and as you know, "Ask and you shall receive".  So yes, it's hell for you.
Think of reality as an onion - peel the layers and you will see a lot of other things besides what's on the surface.  A portrait is not all darkness, because it cannot exist without darkness and the light, and the colors are light viewed from a specific point.  So we all have a point of view from where we're standing.
If you choose to put your energy on the negative, this is the part that you make strong, and your reality.

[GodsProxy]

If we are indeed children of God (and God is all powerful, which how can he be not if he is God?)

Obnosis: Satan is in charge.
Obnosis: "Peel the layers, etc, portrait and painting" Besides the point. We're talking about serious issues.
Obnosis: "Put all your energy on the negative" : Misleading statement. Put it onto the negative and then fix it. You can't avoid the danger by putting your head into the sand.

[Lady-E]

Godsproxy wrote: "It also requires an ability to start to spot when someone is manipulating you through your emotions."

Ok, my apologies, I'm knew to this realm, but have been entrigued on various levels for a number of years...

Godsproxy, anything you'd like to elaborate on above-mentioned quote, "between the lines"...?

As I've said, knew-comer here, just testing the waters... 

[Astral316]

//

[GodsProxy]

Godsproxy wrote: "It also requires an ability to start to spot when someone is manipulating you through your emotions."

Ok, as soon as you see a post which ignores the substance of my entire question and instead starts asking emotional questions such as "unless you believe in a nonloving God" etc, alarm bells should go off in your head. Read back the reply, it quotes all the text from my message. His reply doesn't focus on my post, he asks emotional questions, tells me not to focus on the negative, etc. How can I not focus on the negative when this is a negative issue? Someone else was talking about Death...
CFTraveller, my question remains : Doesn't this point towards a highly troubled planet?:

Ok, lets start. If the US can spend trillions of dollars (One source says $3 trillion, another source with a running counter says $791,292,092,798) invading Iraq to flush out Bin Laden for killing a its citizens (2752 victims who died in the attacks on the World Trade Center) could they not spend a few billion to invade other countries to feed them?

Why not give us some other examples of why this planet is troubled?

[GodsProxy]

Your delusion, my reality and vice versa. What you think is delusional might be original thinking to me. Once people who thought the Earth was circular were thought to be delusional and locked up in lunatic asylums.

Now here is a clear attempt to manipulate via emotions.

The moderator did say he wouldn't tolerate personal attacks here

Delusional disorder

The following can indicate a delusion:

[Astral316]

//

[GodsProxy]

No, it's a prime example of manipulating the reader by telling them the author is crazy.
How can I be crazy when I am just pointing to the facts, and asking for a fair discussion?
Astral316, would you mind doing me a favor, and stop attacking me personally, and give me the benefit of the doubt, and discuss the issues in a rational and level headed fashion?
I've even provided reputable references to my Iraq post, does that make me delusional?
So my hell belief seems different and unconventional, but who is to say that everyone else's heaven belief isn't delusional? Everyone is entitled to their own world view.
My exact point - "delusional" - people see that word and they are swayed - emotionally - and do not look at the facts. Believe you me - people aren't that stupid, Astral316.
Good luck

That's not a personal attack, it's education. Read up, open your mind to the possibility.

[Astral316]

//

[GodsProxy]

Truth hurts, doesn't it? What is delusional about the facts and figures that I have quoted in the website? Are you trying to say that I am incorrect, in your excerpt?
Sigh.....
So, once again, personal attacks aside, do you want to discuss the issue at hand?

Excerpt from your webpage:

[Thread Killer]

Everything is beautiful in its own way
Like the starry summer night, or a snow covered winters day
And everybody's beautiful in their own way.
Under God's Heaven, the world's gonna find the way.
                                 Good Ol' Ray Stevens

Love is in the air. Everywhere I look around.
Love is in the air. Every sight and every sound.
                           John Paul Young
I'm dating myself with those references. Oi! I guess it comes down to what you choose to focus on. Sort of a "birds of a feather..." deal.
 P.S.,
        Losing ones' virginity can have a profound effect on your attitudes.

[Astral316]

My third post addressed the issue at hand. Feel free to respond to it in words anyone can comprehend *without* any logical fallacies. I won't hold my breath, though because:

within the delusional system the logic is perverted

Example...

Your avatar message:

Love is all there is.

Your belief:

Earth is hell.

[GodsProxy]

Astral 316: Emotional manipulation, no content to your messages yet.

[Astral316]

Well, glad I didn't hold my breath.

[Lady-E]

right... this is complicated on so many levels...

first of all, I don't contextually subscribe to the commonplace ideas and/or conformities related to the concepts of heaven or hell, as such. I hate labelling myslef, but for the sake of simplicity, let's refer to me s "an atheist".

However, that does not exclude me from having views and thoughts, even concerns, regarding the concept of heaven / hell / the afterlife. Because I do do believe the after-life, in one form or another, is something each of us will ahev to deal with, regardless of our "spiritual" beliefs / philosophies / convictions.

Godsproxy, I have read numerous of your posts and visited your website.
In this regard, I wish to raise two issues:

1. Being an out-of-the-box thinker - let's say an enlightened inellectual, if I may - the context and reference you provide in support of your statements does make one think, and at the same time, if you read, think and contextualise beyonf your comfort zone, it does bear very potent, potential truth.

As I  do not know know you personally, I cannot validate any of your statements as conclusive (there's my automatic journalistic "pounce" again, lol). However, being he cynic I am, for some reason your words seem to resonate with a little voice in the back of my head...

2.  Emotional manipulation:

Well, is that not in the eye of the beholder...?!

With no professional background myself, I have been privvy to having gained a rather substantial amount of knwowledge, insight and experience in the psychiatrical field myself.

One thing that has always struck me, is this: If people don't quite understand something, if it falls out of their frame of refernce, they fear, reject, or label it.

I believe Godsproxy has his own very strong ground to stand on when it comes to his convictions and beliefs, and the enthusiasm with which he is attempting to publicise his message and make his knowledge accesible.

One thing I do conclusively agree with, and admit to, is that we are indeed pawns, in a strategic game being waged between good and evil.

[CFTraveler]

Ok, as soon as you see a post which ignores the substance of my entire question and instead starts asking emotional questions such as "unless you believe in a nonloving God" etc, alarm bells should go off in your head. Read back the reply, it quotes all the text from my message. His reply doesn't focus on my post, he asks emotional questions, tells me not to focus on the negative, etc. How can I not focus on the negative when this is a negative issue? Someone else was talking about Death...
CFTraveller, my question remains : Doesn't this point towards a highly troubled planet?:Why not give us some other examples of why this planet is troubled?

Well, you completely ignored what I was pointing out- that experience needs a point of view, and without more than one there can be no experience, and that you are simply focusing on the bad and ignoring the good, as if it didn't exist.
Are there negative things?  Sure there are- there can be no negative without the positive and vice-versa.
I can give you examples of a troubled planet, and I can give you examples of goodness and love.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=937158
You are calling what you prefer to notice as 'obvious' and denying the existence of the good- so why are you then asking me to comment?

[GodsProxy]

Lovely stuff - at last after nearly 2 pages of my begging, a post with some substance. Congrats. Yes, it is heartwarming to see the good deeds that do happen.
Father God can and does work on this planet - good things do happen - but he needs people to act through, people with kindness in their heart. There seem to be too few of these people around - we are badly outnumbered.
Now, compare the magnitude of the crisis in Iraq, not to mention the uncaring attitude we see towards world poverty, with the examples you quoted - can you see evil badly outweighs good on this planet by magnitudes?
Its not just a crisis its an abomination.
How often do you see the war in Iraq on the news... and the Good Deeds are relegated to the tail section of the news.
Do you know that in these posts I am trying to do something about it. What are you doing to help?
So I rest my case. This is a very troubled planet, don't you see?

I can give you examples of a troubled planet, and I can give you examples of goodness and love.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=937158