Astral Learning

[Enoch]

Yes. Many talks with the emmisary.

[DiViNE]

Here is how I see it. I believe that everything really is possible, and we all have locked within ourselves abilities that seem "impossible" and that many say "no way, not true" even if someone honestly gives their account of it occurring.

I hate to see such words being spoken, closed-mindedness, and outright denial of something just because someone else or a majority of people have not experienced it or do not believe it to be true.

Remember, those who believe, usually achieve. From my point of view, it seems logical to keep an open mind about everything and having the possbilitiy always open, always 'out there', rather than denying it and ensuring that it is definitely NOT possible right off the bat.

So, with the above being said, I would say that YES you can do such a download, though it may very well take dedication and frequent practice. Which can be hard, since many of us still cannot AP at will, maybe not even conciously at all or very seldom.

These are just "ideas" and speculations on my part, but here is what seems logical to me:
- We know that 1 hour in the physical could be say 10 hours in the Astral. I have read that when your conciousness returns to the body, it tries to fit those 10 hours of memories into 1 hour and things might not work out too well, with parts going missing or just totally messing the whole memory up. But remember, this is just speculation for the most part, and I do believe with practice and testing you could train yourself to somehow just 'absorb' the knowledge you experienced in the astral into the LONG TERM MEMORY and have it easily recallable as any other long term memory you may have. Possible, no?

- Though, I would take the approach of learning from the other dimensions through meditation and accessing that 'realm' from a meditative state, rather than an Astral State. Via this method, you would be more likely to remember what you have accessed and learned. Something along the lines of: Meditative State -> Access other Realm of Information \ Higher Self Knowledgebase -> Store directly and conciously into your memory. Maybe afterwards quickly write down as much as you can, and review post-meditation a few times to get it stuck in LTM. Though, i'm sure you're thinking "Yeah, but how to get into that state where you can access that knowledge?". Some people claim to be able to do it easily in deep meditation, some may not. I'd figure its all proportional to how spiritually aware and evolved you are, how much of your abilities you have unlocked, and most of all practice.


Finally, I'd like to introduce to you a resource I have come across in my studies, called "Image Streaming". This is a technique that is apparently easily learned by many, within weeks you should be getting good images, some maybe right away. Allowing you to access the great knowledge, even access to future technologies and has many exercises on that website that are quite similar in nature. Some for general problem solving (ie. You have something you cant work out, do some image streaming, and get the best solution), some for creative thinking, etc...

Anyways, here is the link:
Image Streaming by Win Wenger
http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm

Browse the main site if you find it interesting, got more techniques as well.

For me personally, I am unable at this point to see images in my mind, its all darkness basically. I can see the afterimage a bit after I stare at a light for a bit, but other than that nothing. Interestingly enough, I see dreams in color, and at the same time have at points in my life woken up in the paralysis stage and seen a 'movie screen' playing in my mind. So I know i'm not "Broken", just havent unlocked my visualization ability? A bit off topic, but if anyone has experienced this in the past and unlocked their abilities, please give me a shout, this is an issue that is very important to me. Turns out pretty much everyone I know can see images in their minds, but not me


Hope the post was informative to some

Peace,
DiViNE

[Enoch]

Good stuff divine. I agree people (not all) contradict themselves so much...Look at the bible if you can believe 100% of it as a christian how can you not believe in projection? It makes no sense especially when the greater part of revelations is written from one...

A huge part of the problem, and i will avoid any depth here because we all know the details, is the government and indeed religion itself. 

[kiwibonga]

- Though, I would take the approach of learning from the other dimensions through meditation and accessing that 'realm' from a meditative state, rather than an Astral State. Via this method, you would be more likely to remember what you have accessed and learned. Something along the lines of: Meditative State -> Access other Realm of Information \ Higher Self Knowledgebase -> Store directly and conciously into your memory. Maybe afterwards quickly write down as much as you can, and review post-meditation a few times to get it stuck in LTM. Though, i'm sure you're thinking "Yeah, but how to get into that state where you can access that knowledge?". Some people claim to be able to do it easily in deep meditation, some may not. I'd figure its all proportional to how spiritually aware and evolved you are, how much of your abilities you have unlocked, and most of all practice.

That's true -- the most detailed spirit communications are often those that come from seances, experiments where one person enters a state of trance and tells someone else what is happening as it happens. They let other entities talk through them, etc...

Though the problem of not remembering fades away with time, supposedly. After several years of conscious exits, there will be no breaks in consciousness throughout the experience, and memory as a whole will be much more efficient than that of an "unaware human."

[Enoch]

You can train yourself fairly quickly to have better "recall' in the dream state. Dont relent in your dream efforts. even nights or mornings where you feel like your getting no where still lets your subconcious know that you take this seriously. I find most of the time people are trying to hard. They have studied and become knowledgable in many areas but in practice it leaves so many options that they feel lost. 

[Leilah]

I think it's totally possible. I've had so many dreams where instructors have come to teach me stuff. Most of it's random, though. Take ice-skating for instance. I had about 5 dreams in which I learned to ice-skate professionaly, each dream taking my learning to the next level. If I had actually written some of the stuff down, I could have probably used what I learned here. Who knows. Then there were the music lessons. Most of my recollection is vague. Probably beacuse the content of these lessons were extremely in depth -complicated when I think back on it now. Thought at the time, it made complete sense.

Point is. Learning stuff in altered states can definitely be done. Whether or not you can remember all the stuff you learned is another story. Like many have already said, practice would make such things much easier. And so would persistance. I mean, it would be pretty kick a** if you could for instance, lay down enter some sort of trance/dream/whatever, focus your attention on what it is you want to learn - learn it -wake up and the experiences you went through during that state would stay with you as if they occured in real life. And then to be able to put it to use - it would just be amazing.

[Enoch]

I usually write alot after such situations...Most of my "training" has come in the form of learning more about sorcery and meditation.

[Awakened_Mind]

You cannot download information into your mind. Experience is the greatest teacher.

-Awakened_Mind

[Enoch]

UMMM ok......Its not downloading its speaking to higher self, gaurdian, emmisary whatever you like to call it. And YES you can.

[Lucid_Learner]

Obviously experience is the greatest teacher, but what use is the experience if you can't remember it???

How can you learn from something you can't recall? It just wouldn't make any sense.

Perhaps the mind can't understand it but it would remember.

Peace LL

[Awakened_Mind]

We all have a higher self I will not disagree. Information is solidified knowledge. It's static in it's existance. In higher dimensions you cannot exist statically. It is a state of knowing. Enoch, speaking to the higher self is an experience in itself. Who in history has ever learnt kung-fu or anything that you can substantiate from a higher realm of existance? How exactly fo you do it? Simply saying it's possible is debateable for many reasons.

[Awakened_Mind]

My point being, we can argue whether it is or it isn't quite easily without evidence. The main issue here is finding the evidence (if it exists), the "mechanics" of the technique and how to develop the ability. These forums are a source of information to the members. I can see how many people will be interested in the topic. Lets get to the root of this shall we? 

[Lucid_Learner]

Yer go on then.

IMO I think that "Downloading" to the mind is simply the memories from the astral experience entering the physical mind. If you didn't "Download" back to the mind then you wouldn't remember any of the experience. So why can't this be applied to a skill you learn in the astral??? Providing you remember all of the journey then  you could apply the skill to physical world.... I think

Only my opinion, what does everyone think of that suggestion?

Peace, LL

[Awakened_Mind]

Plausible. Yes memories are "downloaded", in terms of learning how to engineer a bridge I'm a little skeptical. How you can learn Kung-fu when you don't have any arms or legs? Or how to fly a helicopter when there is none. Depends on what skill we are talking about learning.  I also don't feel that higher beings are at all concerned with the mechanics of a dimension that they transcend. What skills are you suggesting our higher selfs can teach us?  (Bar any psy abilities)

-Awakened_Mind

[Awakened_Mind]

  I was in my Martial Arts class (Ji Do Kwan Family Style Tae Kwon Doe) when I thought of something... Would it be possible to sort of 'download' entire languages, martial art styles, and other huge packages of information from the Astral Plane, or another individual on the Astral Plane.
  In "The Matrix" Neo was able to download Kung Fu from The Matrix. Would that be possible in real life? Just having someone 'send' you the information, or simply downloading it from the very ether of the Astral Plane.
  Not just Martial Arts, or Languages, but how to do certain things, like Telekinesis, Teleportation, and other things like that.
  Do you guys thinks it's possible? Or is it merely a matter of finding someone willing to give you such information?

I'm a little confused as to whether we are still addressing this question, or the remembrance of OBE's? We seem a little off topic.

Downloading information such as kung-fu is impossible. Martial arts is a whole different topic that I won't go into. Memories of OBE are of course or this site wouldn't exist. Development of any psy abilities is circumstantial to the performer. A higher being cannot simply download it into your mind.

In maths you do not learn algebra before first learning, addition, subtraction, division etc... Likewise with all psy abilities you need a foundation before jumping straight to readings peoples minds.  Another way of looking at it as if it were a muscle. Those abilities may lie dormant in us, but they are not activated by a higher being. We all progress at a rate that we are READY to experience. A higher intelligence would surely be wise enough not to just give you psychic abilities simply because you asked. Especially if you aren't ready to experience it. They are a developed natural skill that you can work on yourself. Whether it is possible or not is irrelevant I believe, because it is not done. Ever heard the expression his eyes were too big for his stomach? ell imagine that being: His desires were too big for his mind. If you are just given information, it's not like you can just stop eating. There could be serious consequences. This type of action I would guess is forbidden in the Astral world. Possibly in all higher planes. You cannot comprehend what you are not yet consciously ready to.

As with language and the Astral Realm.  Language in all cultures are the expression of concepts. For example Hello, G-day, Hi, Bonjour all essentially mean the same thing. As does Goodbye, see you later, au revouir. There is a language in the astral realm but it is not of this dimension. They have no need for Chinese, Indian, English etc when concepts are communicated telepathically. I have never heard of any cases where any information has been downloaded into a mind other than the subjective OBE itself. The only possible explanation is when higher beings sometimes teach they do not speak they will show you something, like being placed in a dream as an observer. Think of it as a textbook on higher planes. Still, the information is not downloaded. Reality is much more exciting than the Matrix.

-Awakened_Mind

[Enoch]

I feel you are thinking a bit to linear. The download (i hate that term) is not something i would ever want...
When i speak of higher self,emmisary,gaurdian angel,blue entities,daemons and angel studies. All of these and the akashic records (done by yourself) are accesible in the astral.
In the practice of learning to speak to these beings it is talking and feeling them not some massive Matrix download.
You can indeed learn martial arts of any kind while in the astral. I can give examples all night long of people who have done this. One example the seth books. seth is not even living (here) but his books are poreing out through the dreams of Jane Roberts. You think its bs? Than read the books they are some of the best material around on dreaming. as i said if you want more examples i can but we need to stay on topic.
I have learned about meditation, about many things esoteric from my guide.
and they all work very well.
My first ever encounter was on a night i was scrying. I heard a voice that began to explain how to overcome any fear of dreaming and obe that i may have had. Fear by the way is #1 to overcome.
Since than i have had many talks and learned much from my guide. I will not tell everything because in all honosty its the esoteric way. One must learn for themself (for certain things). am i willing to explain how? sure. will it help NO you have said yourself people always rush. They all know how i did it. They just dont take the necesary steps to do it. ALL of my chakra were open i had kundalini flowing (not awakened flowing) and i was tuned in perfectly. I have one thing that started me on this path and that is im a natural when it comes to energy work. But EVERYONE has something they are good with EVERYONE.
Use that special "thing" to progress. In the end it matters very little what your good at. It all leads to the same place.
Anyways daily meditation, and study with scrying is where it started. after you achieve something just one time (better be paying attention) you should be able to recreate any occurance. Dedication and intent is key. You cant just go to bed and try to get results. You have to make it your way of life. use your ajna chakra daily just as if it was another sense (it is). You have to practice reality checks, practice living in the here and now. See where im going? we can all do it. But are we willing to make it a dedication? Be as dedicated as if you were learning to do something you love. You will only ever get as far as what you have put into it. That my friend is the problem with most practitioners ONLY you can get you there. Its no team effort (until later).
I choose to make this a huge part of my life. It consumes much time and effort and energy. But its what i strive for.
   http://www.sethlearningcenter.org/

Just for referance my first obe is posted here also

[Awakened_Mind]

Read the original post and what you are writing. They are not related.

Which legend martial artist has ever learnt from the astral. Bruce Lee? Mohommed Ali? I mean we need to focus on the legends of it don't we? Who wants to learn a martial arts that is useless in the real world? Name one person in history who has learned martial arts through astral projection.

-Awakened Mind

[Enoch]

Ok so we changed subjects its still astral learning. Im trying to say you can learn and do anything. Anything at all. Famous martial artists bahhh that makes no differance. There are a thousand martial artists that are as good or better. Old men that can kill you with a few correct taps to your energy centers/ pressure points. Fame means nothing nodda. 

[Lucid_Learner]

Just because no-one has used it before doesn't make it a bad idea... or maybe they do and keep it quiet. You could start a whole new form of training in the astral realm. The fact is that if you can OBE successfully then why not apply it to martial arts? It may just work. Theres no point in following your idols either.. I wouldn't want to be remembered as a repeat of the first. I would want to be the first, with a new style... the astral could be the key. I mean you could communicate with deceased masters of martial arts.. then from that form a whole new martial art maybe who knows. The possibilities are endless but without trying your not going to get anywhere.

So overall... give it a shot you never know.

Peace, LL

[Awakened_Mind]

I think we are having communication problems.

I think that abilities can be learnt in the astral realm and remember. Astral movement and vision are abilities. I can say they exist.
I am purely discussing martial arts. My reason being I am a martial artist and learn kung-fu (wing chun), boxing and kempo.

As Lucid_Leaner "I wouldn't want to be remembered as a repeat of the first. I would want to be the first, with a new style." If you learn karate you are a repeat of the first.

Martial arts means honest expression of self through combat. Art being "honest expression". As Bruce Lee said "One cannot express himself fully when one is imposed by a partial set structure of syle. Setting combat into a choiced mould will always create resistance of one's set pattern of what should be as opposed to the ever changing what is." As he goes on "When did the style become more important than the mind that invented it?" and more "The founder of a style might be exposed to some partial truth, but as time passed by, especially after the passing of its founder, this partial truth became a law , or worse still a rejudiced faith against the "different" sects. In order to pass along this knowledge from generation to generation, the various responses had to be organised and classified, and presented in logical orders. So what might have started off as some sor of personal fluidity of its founder is now solidified knowledge, a preserved cure all for mass conditioning. In so doing, the followers have made this knowledge not only a holy shrine, but a tomb in which the founders wisdom is buried. More and more the style becomes more important than its practioner."

IMO, Bruce Lee was the closest person to expressing the TRUTH of martial arts. One which he demonstrated we should all discover ourselves. Seeings how he also regularly meditated, it could be postulated that he was also a projector. I'll try to steer away from this though. Lee went through rigorous training of body and mind to become the legend he died as. I don't believe there are thousands that are better than him. He himself said "I am not ignorant enough to believe there can ever be a number one." It is evident in the way he thought that he was not restricted by any boundries in combat. Old men that can kill you in a few taps have trained in the physical world. Monks train flat out and they are more spiritual than any of us. As for fame I agree. Fame is an illusion created by those who are not known. Bruce Lee was famous for a very important purpose I believe. There is a lot more to him than martial arts.

To put it bluntly, all I am arguing is that martial arts and languages cannot be learnt in the astral realm. In response to the original post.

-Awakened_Mind

[Lucid_Learner]

Okay you have a fair point there. I think that through astral projection you could "find yourself" and because of this it could improve your martial arts, at least the mental side of it. As i'm not a martial arts practitioner myself I can't say much as it's pretty much over my head.

You could learn lessons in the astral that would aid you in martial arts... does that sound better?

Peace, LL

[Psionic]

your not being cocky... as everyone can once they believe they can 

Interesting experience psionic, have you met your higher self in the astral realm?

Also is the higher self the same as a spirit guide?

I'm not sure if I have met my Higher Self in the Astral, but I do recognize the energies and presence of my Higher Self which is predominantly feminine.

About the Higher Self being the same as a spirit guide, Yes. The Higher Self is the same as a spirit guide and The Higher self is also YOU.

You and your Higher Self are completely connected and are one. The Higher Self also happens to be your main guide.

[Awakened_Mind]

In regards to learning the mentality of fighting, AP most definately will assist in the mental side of things. It calms your mind down a lot. Your awareness to attacks/possible counters increases. As does your understanding of martial arts as well. Not as a weapon but a way of expressing yourself. Anyone can be cocky.

IMO, AP actually openS a whole new "wiser" side of yourself. Since my first projection, I have never been the same. I will never look at the world the way I used to. Very enlightening experience, whether it is no.1 or not.

-Awakened_Mind

[Vvid1012]

I believe fighting in the normal reality (physicality) will be much more beneficial to learning than astral.  However, astral fighting is more fun because its less painful  

[Vvid1012]

Yer go on then.

IMO I think that "Downloading" to the mind is simply the memories from the astral experience entering the physical mind. If you didn't "Download" back to the mind then you wouldn't remember any of the experience. So why can't this be applied to a skill you learn in the astral??? Providing you remember all of the journey then  you could apply the skill to physical world.... I think

Only my opinion, what does everyone think of that suggestion?

Peace, LL

Yes, assuming information is downloaded into the brain, but we don't really know if it is... what if the tine neurons in our brain actually function as antennas and simply pick up on different frequencies of time... and learning is just a pattern or connection of signals? arrghh my brain is hurting thinking of this. haha