Great explanations on proper meditation

[personalreality]

Do it.  I'll read it.

[soli]

Franks phasing is really just a form of meditation. No flames please. Really, though, that is why I am attracted to that particular practitioner. That is why I began posting here. There is a simplistic practice with established terminology that nearly anyone can understand. I think when someone hears "phasing" they get it but don't get it at the same time. It is an intuitive process which is natural. As natural as going to sleep. As natural as creating a masturbatory fantasy (no, really, say you never did that). As natural as planning your next days activities. Varying degrees of a meditative practice that many are unaware they are doing. And all is directly related to developing the skills for "phasing" or "astral projection" or "OBE" or whatever you want to call it.

Anyone?

yeah I have spoken on here with others about meditation and phasing generally being synonymous with each other. The amusing thing is Frank never meditated to himself. I have actually been meditating instead of phasing lately. The only difference to me being the intention desired. 

[Psilibus]

I will put together a post within a couple days. Work is a killer lately, graveyard shift. I want to put out something WORTH the read. I am sure many will recognize what I describe though. I will post it in this forum as a fresh post so that it can be modified as necessary after constructive criticism.

Enjoy!

[Xanth]

Yes Psi, I'd love to read what you have to say about meditation. 

~Ryan

[Stookie]

I just read this, and agree with Silly Bus: phasing and meditation are pretty much the same thing. And I would also like to read what you have to say.

[Xanth]

I just read this, and agree with Silly Bus: phasing and meditation are pretty much the same thing. And I would also like to read what you have to say.

They really are.
I always felt it was strange whenever Frank mentioned that he didn't really know or understand "what" meditation was... when he was so obviously a master of it.  ROFL

~Ryan

[Psilibus]

My interpretation of what Frank wrote about meditation was that he preferred the scientific approach and did not wish to be bothered by new age gimmicks. Why would you, really, when you have a natural talent though. Plus the observations he made helped me pull through some of the doubts I have had. The way he described focus 4, I have been there. For years I have had no real way to compare my experiences. It always seemed it was nothing more than a very lucid dream. The OBE's I never doubted though - too "real". I always doubted because I had no real validation. To me, someone who has experienced something and it matches my experience, that is the validation I needed. I had read so many astral travel books and while some of it was similar, I have to admit the skeptic in me was hard to stifle.

[personalreality]

franks profession of being a scientist is what turns me off to his stuff.  it's hard to identify those who use science as a tool in conjunction with imagination (ie potential) and those who are "scientists" part of the religion known as scienceism.

[Capt. Picard]

Im not sure why him being a scientist would turn you off, judging by the popularity and convenience of the phasing model, I would say the critical thinking faculties he possessed were a good thing... Whats with people associating science with fundamental pseudoskepticism on this website? Look around you, there is more than enough evidence that the basic science we know is far from a religion. Maybe I should start associating people here with crazy acid taking pagan wiccan crystal wearing hippies just because they like some or one idea that is associated with the "new age" stuff...

[personalreality]

  well stated sir.

draw!

[Psilibus]

I think it has something to do with "sleep paralysis and trance".  

See "Noetic Theory". That is science. I don't know of "scienceism" but am always interested in what I don't know.

I personally tend to favor the traditional esoteric views but that is my history. What the future holds I will have to discover!

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
Albert Einstein

[personalreality]

scienceism is the abuse of science for gain, but more importantly it's the acceptance of scientific dogma and the denial of new potential and exploration.

[Stookie]

I don't think Frank's point was to make it as much "scientific" as it was to dispel the mysticism surrounding it. To him, this stuff isn't mystical and magical. It's REAL and easier to attain when viewing it as something real.

But, to each his own.

[Xanth]

I don't think Frank's point was to make it as much "scientific" as it was to dispel the mysticism surrounding it. To him, this stuff isn't mystical and magical. It's REAL and easier to attain when viewing it as something real.

But, to each his own.

That's what I was trying to post about last night, but it never came out right... so I kept deleting it.  LOL

Yes, his entire goal was to remove the mysticism attached to it and bring it into reality as something tangible and objective.

~Ryan

[personalreality]

understood.

i too was trying to explain something but i kept deleting it.

my point is that what we have of frank here is just his after image, his "ghost".  we don't have frank.

i'm skeptical of whoever i'm going to take advice from and i have some hard-held biases with science (my limitation, i would say) and since all i have is frank's ghost, it's more difficult for me to "dive in".  I'm more weary of someone who's trying to take the mysticism out of something magical.  I don't have a problem with the inherent method per se (i don't mind someone taking the mysticism out of it) but it makes me more cautious.  Perhaps mysticism is there for a reason beyond just humans grasping to make sense of something they don't understand.  I would just like to give anyone who attempts to simplify something a nice once over before I trust them, and that word "scientist" unfortunately is a red flag in my mind.  I'm not saying frank or anyone else is a "scientist" (as in scienceism) I'm just saying that people like that exist and they are a potential detriment.

[Xanth]

I'm more weary of someone who's trying to take the mysticism out of something magical.

That's just it though...
That was his entire point.
It's not "something magical".

He was trying to point out that there's really no such thing as "magick"... and that what everyone deems "magickal" is something stuff that we are SUPPOSED to be able to do, but have simply lost the knowledge.

It's not magick.
It's natural... it's normal... it's what we're supposed to be able to do.

The only reason mysticism and mystical terminology still exists is because of the unknown... and we humans love to give extraordinary labels to things we don't understand.

~Ryan

[Psilibus]

I'm one who sees this all as Magick and magical all at the same time. I am also one who sees it as science. Until EVERYONE is "doing it", "it" will not be natural or normal. I understand the argument that everyone projects and that most aren't aware. I would like to stress here that there is a particular component missing in many discussion and that is specifically of "Magick". Intentional projection is a work of the will with intention and imagination and sometimes force - all are legs of the magickal "table", three of which allow it to stand. It is the intention here that separates the practitioners from what is usually considered normal or natural.

It IS what we are supposed to be able to do. There is particular work that can be done when projecting and it falls directly within the bounds OF Magick - causing change to occur according to the exercise of one's WILL. To my understanding, THAT is a close definition of Magick. I'm not talkin Harry Potter crap here either. I am referring to the "Great Work" which we each undertake daily to better understand and direct our individual place in the Universe. After reading nearly all of Frank's PDF I would conclude he was greatly successful in his Great Work, he just simply would not have referred to it as such (once again I am only supposing as I really don't know the man).

A great explanation of proper meditation would be to divulge what can actually BE accomplished with the process and so further encourage the initiate to pursue self-fulfillment.

The Astral environment is the BEST place, IMHO, to cause positive growth and change in ones life - once again, the true goal and outcome of Magick.

[personalreality]

xanth, just because you want to make it easier for your head to accept doesn't mean its not what you don't like.

we've talked about magick before.

and that is my fundamental problem with science, they wanna take the great mystery out of existence.  the fanciful and stimulating bits.

when you whittle everything down to its basic parts you lose the "ghost" that was created from their combination.  plus i don't think that you can whittle everything down to it's base parts, and by trying to do so the divine is removed and you're left with inert matter.

[Xanth]

xanth, just because you want to make it easier for your head to accept doesn't mean its not what you don't like.

I don't do this because it makes it 'easier for my head'.  I can converse with people using either set of terminology quite fine.
I do it because I feel it's right to remove the mystical connotations involved with this kind of stuff.
It's part of my evolving spiritual belief.

and that is my fundamental problem with science, they wanna take the great mystery out of existence.  the fanciful and stimulating bits.

Why is that a problem?

My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence".
I don't see this as being a barrier or a problem.

At the very least, I can remove the great mystery for myself.  It'll be slightly harder to remove it for others.

when you whittle everything down to its basic parts you lose the "ghost" that was created from their combination.  plus i don't think that you can whittle everything down to it's base parts, and by trying to do so the divine is removed and you're left with inert matter.

You sound like you enjoy not knowing.  LoL

~Ryan

[personalreality]

o the fool am i!

[Psilibus]

Xanth - You said
"My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence"."

That IS Magick.

[personalreality]

damn straight

[personalreality]

science is magick in my opinion.


"any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magick"

[Xanth]

Xanth - You said
"My ultimate goal throughout all this is to remove the "great mystery out of existence"."

That IS Magick.

You're gonna have to explain that one...

~Ryan

[Stookie]

There is a lot of wacky and overly-complicated (and just plain wrong) stuff out there that can really mystify simple concepts. For a beginner in AP (like a lot here), Frank tried to make this as straight forward and realistic as possible. I don't think you really have to have symbolic things to get a feeling of devotion and awe (spiritual-ness), or whatever-feeling that a particular ritual is attempting to invoke.

But if someone is more comfortable with rituals and invoking and evoking, go for it. I personally don't like the way I look in a hooded-robe.