Sleep Paralysis and Trance

[Velvet V.]

I fail to understand what you're saying. Thinking or daydreaming is certainly not enough to project. It's not even enough to put you into trance on its own.

Edit: It's possible to have visionary experiences wide awake, but I meant full projection only.

[Xanth]

I fail to understand what you're saying. Thinking or daydreaming is certainly not enough to project. It's not even enough to put you into trance on its own.

Edit: It's possible to have visionary experiences wide awake, but I meant full projection only.

It's only my theory, but I believe that it is. 

We already know that, thanks to Frank, we can change our focus of awareness separate from our area of awareness.

~Ryan

[personalreality]

i don't get the difference between focus of awareness and area of awareness.

do you know which frank posts this is in?

is there any organization to your pdf?  I haven't really looked at it yet.

could you tell me where to look in the pdf or am i just gonna have to read it?

[Psilibus]

It amazes me to see the discussions that go on here. All this talk does is complicate a rather simple issue. Its all about semantics here for Gadz Sake. Its just like reading a 16th century metaphysical book. Tells you the same darn thing as a book written yesterday. Its just the words used that make it nearly incomprehensible to anyone unfamiliar. Makes me think of a recent post of mine where I got chastised for using the word "meditation" and then allowing myself to get huffy when I was disagreed with. Jeez.

I'm sorry but you can project from any number of states- "trance", "meditation", sleep "paralysis", "lucid" dreams or just plain old dreaming. The reality of what you experience depends on the clarity of your focus. If I wake from dreaming and detect paralysis - I can project. If I enter a trance through meditation and lose focus of my physical body - I can project. If I am lucid dreaming - I can project (but usually don't cuz I enjoy lucid dreaming too much). In all of these cases the point of projection is brought on by increasing the focus of awareness and losing of focus on the physical (sensation and such).

Arguing about "sleep paralysis" as a means of projecting is weird. Sleep paralysis, as stated earlier, is simply a side effect of the activation of the amygdala during a dream state. If you can consciously paralyze yourself then you are weird and I would want you to see a neurologist. I use the word "weird" because I don't know why anyone would want that.

Could someone tell me what the heck "brainwaves" have to do with understanding trance states. I know what brainwaves are but I don't tell myself "Ah, there I go, my theta is up and my beta is down, better get to work on my delta's".

I can see why so many cannot project. Awful lot of confusing stuff goes on here.

[personalreality]

there are often physiological sensations associated with changes in brainwave states. 

so if i learned what was associated with each brainwave state (trance state) i can identify it as i'm moving through them and it can help to know what to do next.

but it's ultimately irrelevant.

[cpt. picard]

I don't where you've been but since I first started studying projection, the concept of entering a trance or SP or whatever you wish to call it, has been called "mind awake-body asleep" for a very long time, if you don't project from paralysis, fine, but saying inducing paralysis is a sign of a neurological disorder? You don't know what you're talking about...

[CFTraveler]

Psilbus wrote:

It amazes me to see the discussions that go on here. All this talk does is complicate a rather simple issue. Its all about semantics here for Gadz Sake. Its just like reading a 16th century metaphysical book. Tells you the same darn thing as a book written yesterday. Its just the words used that make it nearly incomprehensible to anyone unfamiliar. Makes me think of a recent post of mine where I got chastised for using the word "meditation" and then allowing myself to get huffy when I was disagreed with. Jeez.
... Sleep paralysis, as stated earlier, is simply a side effect of the activation of the amygdala during a dream state. If you can consciously paralyze yourself then you are weird and I would want you to see a neurologist. I use the word "weird" because I don't know why anyone would want that.

... saying inducing paralysis is a sign of a neurological disorder? You don't know what you're talking about...

Psilbus, I think CP's reply answered your question- it's because of those kinds of answers which prompts my continued presence in this thread, although not for long....
Later.

[cpt. picard]

I don't see what's wrong with my "answer" nor do I see Psilbus asking any questions in his post. If you guys say you project without paralysis, fine, I believe you and accept your methods, but if you guys are gonna start generalizing now and trying to say that inducing paralysis is a sign of neurological problems, that I'm gonna call you on your bull once again. "Mind awake-body asleep" methods have been around forever and appear extensively in astral projection literature, Im just trying to bring that to people's attention before they make such unwarranted statements.

[Psilibus]

cpt. picard and personalreality -
LOL. All I was saying is that if you can induce paralysis you are WEIRD. It is completely unnecessary to induce PARALYSIS. You induce a trance or dream or meditative state and the paralysis is an end result of the reaction of the biological brain to the "body asleep/mind awake" phenomenon. Jeez. It's a biological process, not a spiritual one. Sorry if I'm so difficult to understand. Form your own opinion and go with that then. I'm talking about researched phenomenon, just like the "brainwave" stuff you were knowledgeable about. If you choose to follow your own hypothesis without researching further then enjoy your knowledge and call me an idiot. I think you're cool though cuz your here and I would like more than disagreement - discussion perhaps?

[cpt. picard]

Perhaps you are right, I've just never projected without paralysis being one of the side effects, and what you just said WAS inducing paralysis. If you induce it through trance or meditation whatever, you are still inducing paralysis, and there is nothing weird about that, as I said, the majority of literature regarding AP describes the mind awake body asleep state as being ample for projection, so I fail to see what is weird about it all.

[Psilibus]

I only meant weird in the nicest sense. Once again, if it works for you that is great. Success is in the outcome. I would hate to instruct someone to seek paralysis though. I would warn them however that it is a potential side effect which can be disheartening. I just made a post prior to this one, in fact, where I mentioned taking notice of paralysis and took advantage of it. It can be a good signpost of the state your body is in.

Enjoy the day!

[personalreality]

YOU CAN NOT INDUCE PARALYSIS


lol

silly humans.

[Xanth]

YOU CAN NOT INDUCE PARALYSIS


lol

silly humans.

This is correct.
You can induce Trance or Focus 10...
Sleep Paralysis is an abnormal function that can only happen during natural sleep.

[personalreality]

personalreality, you stupid, fool.

thinkin you know everything.

so what, you're a psych student.

so what, you study altered states and sleep states in the university.

so what, your career path is one of research in the field of human consciousness.

you don't know nothin

you gettin on my nerves fool.

[Xanth]

PR is officially nuts. 

[personalreality]

i really am getting on my nerves though

[CFTraveler]

personalreality, you stupid, fool.

thinkin you know everything.

so what, you're a psych student.

so what, you study altered states and sleep states in the university.

so what, your career path is one of research in the field of human consciousness.

you don't know nothin

you gettin on my nerves fool.

Well I like you anyway.
Most of the time, anyway.

[personalreality]

I'm really just disguising my quest for my 4th star as randomness.

Thinking that if it's odd enough, people won't realize that I'm just randomly posting.

[Selea]

I'm becoming considerably convinced that one doesn't have to be physically paralyzed to shift their conscious awareness.  One merely has to shift their awareness away from this particular focus.  I've done this, albeit only with the imagination thing... if you want to know details, I was actually in the bathroom at the time.  ROFL  I won't go into anymore detail than that. LOL

Actually you are right. You don't absolutely need to have sleep paralysis to project, that is a misinformation. I can for example project in my "Body of Light" and move my physical body if I want to (it requires effort, but it is feasible). While the body must be asleep, the amount of this "sleep" can vary a lot.

[Selea]

"Mind awake-body asleep" methods have been around forever and appear extensively in astral projection literature, Im just trying to bring that to people's attention before they make such unwarranted statements.

Actually not. It is only lately that this concept has been used and "methods" provided to go with it. Authors of before were smarter, in fact. Usually trying to trigger this particualr state for beginners only hinders their efforts (in the majority of cases). It is only lately that authors started to trying to explain "methods" that requires first this state to being brought because they tried to explain what they passed through and to let others understand the same without willingly they imposed something that actually prevents success in most cases.

Think about it, if you want to switch focus from the physical body do you think the best way is focus on it trying to making it going to sleep? I know that people sometimes wants to be intricate, but it is a little nonsensical.

As I said before often it is better to say less to achieve more. Ancient authors never talked about "mind awake/body asleep" (while knowing it very well) because trying to forcing the state often brings only a focus to the physical body, and that's the wrong way to do it at beginning.

The BoL, Skrying in the Spirit Vision, Rising the Planes, etc. are all ancient methods that makes no reference whatsoever to the body asleep/mind awake state. It is difficult to tranfer the consciousness away from the physical body if what you have done till then is only to focus on the same. Or you can bring on the state quite easily for yourself fast, or it is better to discard the same altogheter, also because it comes naturally if you just focus your consciousness away from it.

[CFTraveler]

Actually you are right. You don't absolutely need to have sleep paralysis to project, that is a misinformation. I can for example project in my "Body of Light" and move my physical body if I want to (it requires effort, but it is feasible). While the body must be asleep, the amount of this "sleep" can vary a lot.

It's not misinformation as much as generalization.  Most people that are starting out find it almost impossible if they're not paralyzed (or at least disassociated from their bodies.)  With practice and getting used to the conditions comes projecting without paralysis- but it's not easy.

[Psilibus]

Amazing, this discussion of "paralysis" continues. In what literature and where is there any statement that paralysis is a normal state PRIOR to projection. Are we saying "body asleep" is "paralysis"?

I mean this seriously cuz I don't get this conversation at all. All we are talking about is a "trance" state. That is what a trance state is, "mind awake-body asleep". Why can' we just say "trance state" instead of "mind awake-body asleep" or "paralysis". All we gotta do is FOCUS on the MIND and NOT FOCUS on the BODY.

Imagine telling someone who has never projected, never read of it, "yeah, dude, first you gotta get yourself paralyzed". I mean cummon. There is better lingo than that. "SLEEP paralysis" IS a term which is applicable but it describes something totally different, a whole different "biological" process. Yes you can project from "sleep paralysis" but the fact that you are even aware of sleep paralysis in the first place is because your brain has been in a dream state, usually REM, and you have awakened to that paralysis. It is NOT a required step prior to projection. This is not opinion. I believe this to be fact.

Notice I did not use the word "weird" anywhere in my post. Ooops I guess I did after all. 

[CFTraveler]

You have read my multiple posts about it, so you know I agree- however, I'm being general- I didn't say 'sleep paralysis', I said 'paralyzed' or 'disassociated'.
Cheers.

[Psilibus]

CFTraveler - Yes, cheers. I was not referring to your comment. I was questioning the entire thread. Xanth initiated this thread by posting a relevant glossary from PR. I constantly see discussion which amounts to nothing but semantics. That is time wasted when these are precious moments for those on the cusp. I think if we both review posts you will see we are very much eye to eye. I do not wish to pretend to be more knowledgeable than another so I will defer from further comment. I do feel my comments were succinct however though not directed toward you. I suppose cpt. picard and selea were where my comments aimed. Sorry or not, I look forward to further discussion of this issue. It is important to those who have not progressed beyond the desire.

Enjoy!

[Xanth]

CFTraveler - Yes, cheers. I was not referring to your comment. I was questioning the entire thread. Xanth initiated this thread by posting a relevant glossary from PR. I constantly see discussion which amounts to nothing but semantics. That is time wasted when these are precious moments for those on the cusp. I think if we both review posts you will see we are very much eye to eye. I do not wish to pretend to be more knowledgeable than another so I will defer from further comment. I do feel my comments were succinct however though not directed toward you. I suppose cpt. picard and selea were where my comments aimed. Sorry or not, I look forward to further discussion of this issue. It is important to those who have not progressed beyond the desire.

Enjoy!

It would definitely be a bonus if we could come up with a language we all agreed upon.  LoL

~Ryan