Sleep Paralysis and Trance

[sola~]

make a glossary that is agreed upon have it stickied and convert anyone who dares not abide by it  , such will be a step in the right direction of progression, unfortunately

[Capt. Picard]

I have my lingo, you have yours, I cant tell the difference between "trance" and paralysis, so I call it "sleep paralysis", good luck converting me to the new lingo 

[personalreality]

i've had a revelation, i agree with the captain.

[Selea]

It's not misinformation as much as generalization.  Most people that are starting out find it almost impossible if they're not paralyzed (or at least disassociated from their bodies.)  With practice and getting used to the conditions comes projecting without paralysis- but it's not easy.

However, also in this case, the obstacle is self-imposed by the actual "method" used. If other means are used the paralysis is neither acknowledged and in many cases neither needed, also at beginning. There are many ways to obtain what is called an OBE or AP, and the sad truth is that many times beginners actually reading certain things create self induced obstacles and impositions.

This is one of those. What's worse is that actually trying to bringing on a "paralysis" is much more difficult than actually "leaving the body" in itself.

[Psilibus]

However, also in this case, the obstacle is self-imposed by the actual "method" used. If other means are used the paralysis is neither acknowledged and in many cases neither needed, also at beginning. There are many ways to obtain what is called an OBE or AP, and the sad truth is that many times beginners actually reading certain things create self induced obstacles and impositions.

This is one of those. What's worse is that actually trying to bringing on a "paralysis" is much more difficult than actually "leaving the body" in itself.

Yesssss!
My attempted point exactly. Are these forums more for those of attainment or those who are seeking? Both, I am sure but who stands to extract the most benefit?

Those who have projected dozens of times would easily suffice with their own terminology. Someone who tries dozens of times unsuccessfully might benefit from clarity. While I can understand PR's revelation I still feel somewhat mutinous.

Oh well.

[Xanth]

Yesssss!
My attempted point exactly. Are these forums more for those of attainment or those who are seeking? Both, I am sure but who stands to extract the most benefit?

Those who have projected dozens of times would easily suffice with their own terminology. Someone who tries dozens of times unsuccessfully might benefit from clarity. While I can understand PR's revelation I still feel somewhat mutinous.

Oh well.

These forums are here, in my opinion, for the beginner.

As I said, while it would be helpful to have a common vernacular to work from... as the Capt pointed out, it wouldn't be very feasible.
We'll just have to keep trying to fit each others paradigms in with others until that day comes about.

~Ryan

[Everlasting]

To me paralasys happens when I'm asleep and attacked by evil forces, it's rare though.

[personalreality]

i was being sarcastic

[Xanth]

To me paralasys happens when I'm asleep and attacked by evil forces, it's rare though.

"Attacked by evil forces"?
Whoever told you that Sleep Paralysis is from being attacked?

While you're not actually supposed to consciously experience the paralysis that comes with sleeping... it's nothing more than that.  It's a function of sleep so we don't act out our dreams.

It's just you consciously experiencing that paralysis before it's had a chance to dissipate... nothing is attacking you.  Guaranteed. 

i was being sarcastic

Dude!
You know that sarcasm doesn't come across in text very well.

Although, the misunderstandings that erupt due to them are quite entertaining to witness. 

~Ryan

[Capt. Picard]

Well, despite what people choose to believe, I believe in the "trance state" you are still paralyzed, despite what you want to call this state. It is obvious that paralysis is required for projection, as your body would act in the manner of your astral body and wake you up, like the body's paralysis as a natural protection from movement during dreams, it is required to shut your body off for projections as well. It is paralysis despite what people say.

[Selea]

Well, despite what people choose to believe, I believe in the "trance state" you are still paralyzed, despite what you want to call this state. It is obvious that paralysis is required for projection, as your body would act in the manner of your astral body and wake you up, like the body's paralysis as a natural protection from movement during dreams, it is required to shut your body off for projections as well. It is paralysis despite what people say.

You are wrong. You are so convinced that you can only "project" if the body is in a paralysis state that you cannot do it elsewhere. However I understand that's not your fault.

I tell you a little secret: the body needs only to be asleep for us adults because we have trained our consciousness to abide in the physical body only for a lifetime and the fact that it can abide somewhere else while "awake" is too beyond our doubts to be achievable (in reality with intensive training it can be done, but it requires years and years of deconstruction). A little child doesn't need all these lies. He can focus elsewhere in a moment, given the motivation to do so instead of being talked down.

This is our damnation for the time being. Retrieve our status as newborns again, deconstructing all external impositions. Paralysis needed to transfer the consciousness is one of them, believe it or not.

[Psilibus]

Still feeling mutinous, Captain!

I am not paralyzed when I purposefully project. My wife has heard me talk and seen me make small gestures when I am OBE. She said it freaked her out. Said my voice sounded like I was under water...?

If I awaken from a dream and notice sleep paralysis I can use the opportunity to project and have done that many times. I am only saying I do not pursue paralysis as an accompaniment or precursor to an OBE.

[Capt. Picard]

Are you guys literally incapable of comprehending what Im saying? You talk in your projections just as its possible to talk in your sleep uncounciously, notice you say you "wake up" in paralysis, this is because your are paralyzed during the projection, obviously. You guys are gonna actually have to provide some evidence before you exclaim that I am flat out wrong. You honestly think talking and moving slightly is evidence? You do that while your alseep normally too! So, just as Selea said, I will also say, you are both wrong, and then provide no additional evidence except my opinions to back it up. Good day.

[Xanth]

Nobody is wrong guys...

This is stuff that's very hard, if not impossible, to prove.

So until someone provides proof beyond, personal experience, nobody can claim facts.

~Ryan

[Capt. Picard]

Thank you Xanth. Im getting tired of people saying Im wrong for giving my opinion, yet backing up their claims with nothing but their opinion? I guess some people dont understand logical argumentation.

[Xanth]

Thank you Xanth. Im getting tired of people saying Im wrong for giving my opinion, yet backing up their claims with nothing but their opinion? I guess some people dont understand logical argumentation.

You're welcome. 

There's nothing more frustrating then having quotes taken out of context and other crap like that.

~Ryan

[Psilibus]

Captain, I did not say you were wrong. I think you are right because it works for you. Your language works for you. I am happy for you and your thoughts here. I appreciate what you have to say. I am sure it will benefit someone. I only have issues with the language ALL use, including myself. That is my only point. ALL of my points have been utterly logical.

No one should be "frustrated". I'm not. I doubt any of you others are either. The only frustrated ones are people who are struggling with the process and wade through countless terms and techniques which boil down to basically the same friggin thing.

At least we are all speakin da ingles here.

[CFTraveler]

Mas o menos.

[misinformedia]

i have had sleep paralysis or hypnagogic dreams for my entire life. their have been a few times when i have tried to stay in that state. because i am entirely aware of whats going on, i sometimes think that i can be in control of the situation. but my experience with attempting to control it has been pretty bad. i remember a time when i was able to get my movement back and it was as thought i was totally awake, but i kept seeing shadows running around like people trying to scatter.

[Selea]

Are you guys literally incapable of comprehending what Im saying? You talk in your projections just as its possible to talk in your sleep uncounciously, notice you say you "wake up" in paralysis, this is because your are paralyzed during the projection, obviously. You guys are gonna actually have to provide some evidence before you exclaim that I am flat out wrong. You honestly think talking and moving slightly is evidence? You do that while your alseep normally too! So, just as Selea said, I will also say, you are both wrong, and then provide no additional evidence except my opinions to back it up. Good day.

I already told you why you are wrong. A child can do what I said easily given the opportunity to do so. I don't want to talk about personal experiences because they can or cannot mean anything at all for you, but what I'm saying you can acknowledge for yourself if you are interested in it.

Then tell me, do you consider walking also a "paralysis" case? Because I know a person that can "project" while walking for example. As for talking and moving slightly in a real "paralysis" you cannot move, usually. If you talk about "paralysis" it's not the same as talking about trance (or at last not in all "forms" of trance) for example. You are mixing a bit terms, it seems.

Anyway, if you talk expressedly about "trance" (instead of full paralysis) I already told you that a little child can "project" easily in a just "daydream" focus of mind. There are many people that can do the same after years of training. "Projecting" while in a totally normal status is difficult to achieve for people that train themselves in these things, because their approach is different. However those that know already how to do it can do the same. There are many examples of these sorts of people: Alfredo Roi, Austin Osman Spare, the late Swedenborg, etc.

As I said there are various ways to do an OBE or AP, and various degrees of the same. Also "normal" people can sometimes do what is called "remote viewing" in a completely "normal" state of consciousness.

[Selea]

Thank you Xanth. Im getting tired of people saying Im wrong for giving my opinion, yet backing up their claims with nothing but their opinion? I guess some people dont understand logical argumentation.

That was not my opinion. I gave you a "proof" of the fact. It is only that you decided to discard what you simply didn't like.

While these "things" have many things of a subjective nature, there are also objective matters that pertains to them. This is one of them. There are people that have the "gift" of being able to tranfer the consciousness in other "forms". These people do things differently from people that learned how to do it. The difference in this case is that they can do it either while in an "awake" status.

You can naturally believe what I say or not, however at last consider that maybe what you think possible or not is a self-imposition.

[sola~]

While these "things" have many things of a subjective nature, there are also objective matters that pertains to them. This is one of them. There are people that have the "gift" of being able to tranfer the consciousness in other "forms". These people do things differently from people that learned how to do it. The difference in this case is that they can do it either while in an "awake" status.

this is very self limiting, I guess we should all give up projecting because we'll never be as good as someone who has a gift. /end Astralpulse forum, I'll let adrian know we have to shut it down now, no one post anymore unless you have a gift because you're of a lower origin to Selea. This is the stupidest idea I've ever seen you communicate. This forum is not here so you can put ideas in people's heads that they won't amount to anything.

[personalreality]

happy birthday sola`!!!

Here's the gift!!!

*THE gift*

\o/ 

YAY!

[Naykid]

this is very self limiting, I guess we should all give up projecting because we'll never be as good as someone who has a gift. /end Astralpulse forum, I'll let adrian know we have to shut it down now, no one post anymore unless you have a gift because you're of a lower origin to Selea. This is the stupidest idea I've ever seen you communicate. This forum is not here so you can put ideas in people's heads that they won't amount to anything.

I love sarcasm!     And I do agree with you, but let's not make this into something that doesn't need to be.  I think for the most part the folks that are here have an idea of what's going on.  Perhaps Selea feels if we don't agree it makes her experiences less.... I don't know, but I do know that arguing over semantics is silly at this point.

For the record, I have projected from sleep paralysis several times, but I've never been able to induce sleep paralysis...never really thought of doing so.   I think personal experience is a large part of how we learn.  I can read a book on how to fly a plane a hundred times, or have someone tell me how to fly a plane, but that doesn't mean, I know how to fly a plane all of a sudden. 

[Capt. Picard]

You know I was gonna rip ya a new one Selea (verbally), but the fact that you think you have proved anything by stating your opinions is laughable, and (trying not to be offensive) demonstrates a pretty feeble and closed minded attitude. I pity you, and nothing more needs to be said, you clearly do not understand simple logical argumentation. All you have stated is your opinion, if you honestly cant tell the difference between that and actual evidence based facts, then as I said, I need not say anything else to you, i can already tell its gonna be like arguing with a fundamental christian or perhaps a brick wall.