Sleep Paralysis and Trance

[Xanth]

I'm just gonna cut and paste some posts from other threads here for now and we'll go from there. 

From PR

I will distinguish between them right now.

Sleep Paralysis - sleep paralysis is closely related to the paralysis that occurs as a natural part of REM (rapid eye movement) sleep, which is known as REM atonia. Sleep paralysis occurs when the brain awakes from a REM state, but the body paralysis persists. This leaves the person fully conscious, but unable to move.

Trance - All brain waves are analogous to different types of trance in that they utilise brain and consciousness resources differently and provide different input and information filters.

Gamma waves

Gamma waves have the highest range of frequencies (around 40 Hz) and are involved in higher mental activity. They have also been detected during the process of awakening and during active rapid eye movement (REM) sleep.

Beta waves

Beta waves are the most common of the brain wave patterns that occur when awake. These occur during period of intense concentration, problem solving, and focused analysis. The frequency of beta waves is between 13–30 Hz (cycles per second).

Alpha waves

Alpha waves are any of the electrical waves from the parietal and occipital regions of the brain, having frequencies from 8 to 12 hertz (cycles per second). Some scientists consider the range 8–13 Hz and are most usual when we are mentally alert, calm and relaxed, or when day-dreaming. Alpha waves are a sign of relaxation, as they indicate a lack of sensory stimulation in a conscious person.

Theta waves

Theta waves occur when we are mentally drowsy and unfocused, during deep calmness, most daydreaming, relaxation or tranquility, as for example we make the transitions from drowsiness to sleep or from sleep to the waking state. The frequency of theta waves is between 4–7 Hz (cycles per second) though some researchers regard theta to be 5 to 8 cps.

In brain wave frequencies, theta is the frequency range where drowsiness, unconsciousness, dreaming states and deep tranquility happen. Most daydreaming occurs while in the theta range. It is normally a very positive mental state and prolonged states of the theta brain wave frequency while conscious can be extremely productive and a time of very meaningful/creative mental activity.

With practice, meditation can also lower a person's brain wave frequency to theta while allowing the meditator to remain conscious.

Delta waves

Delta waves occur primarily during deep sleep or states of unconsciousness. The frequency of delta waves is between 0.5–4 Hz (cycles per second).

Focus 10 - This is most closely related to what might be called a deep trance state, low alpha to theta waves.  This is a state in which your awareness seems to have "separated" from your normal position of perception.  Often this is experienced as your consciousness having shrunk to a point and perception seems to happen through the mind's eye or "third eye".


I'm not even going to talk about sleep paralysis anymore, it's a biological function and has nothing to do with AP.  If it happens, great, use it.  But DO NOT try to achieve it because it won't happen.  You aren't supposed to experience sleep paralysis, it's supposed to be a function of your body to protect itself while you are in REM sleep.  And, if you've studied sleep cycles, you aren't supposed to wake up naturally in REM.  Sometimes it happens for whatever reason and if it does, use it.

Focus 10 is a level of trance.  Trance is not some difficult thing to achieve.  Zoning out is trance, daydreaming is trance, watching tv is a trance state, meditation is trance, being "in the zone" while playing a game (sports, video, whatever) is a trance, getting into the flow of a song while dancing is trance, hypnosis is a trance.

It's easy for us to categorize trance states into the brain wave frequency designations but in truth, trance describes a massive continuum of altered states of consciousness.  Everything from being hyperactively awake to being passed out asleep.  Trance is just a word we use to designate our waking consciousness from other altered states.

Again, Focus 10 is not trance, but a specific region on the continuum of trance states.  The specific trance state needed to AP is variable.  Each one of us has a different and infinitely unique physiological and psychological make-up which influences the particular trance state needed to AP/Phase or OBE/Etherically Project.

Bottom line, everyone is using words to mean different things.  That is the nature of human communication.  Each of us has a unique experience with different "words" and so our perception of them is biased toward our paradigm.  We're arguing over the definition of words that are descriptions of SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCES!  Silly.

My concern is in confusion this kind of talk creates for new people.  So, new people, do your best to read what everyone has to say, pick one that seems congruent with your experience, use it and build on it.  Make your own definition of all these words.

out.

Again, from PR

One more thing.  When you project, it's not a completely aware mind that allows for exit (or whatever you frankies call a phase exit), it's a completely focused and engrossed mind.  It's not just a numb body that allows the exit.  Your mind needs to be in an appropriate state, which as you may have guessed is a unique experience.  Each person will experience this state differently so there isn't much use in trying to describe it.

You all talk like all you need is a sleeping body which isn't true.  You need mental discipline.  You need to be able to control your involvement in the process.  For some this means being almost asleep.  For others this means visualizing with intense detail.  It takes much more than just Mind Awake/Body Asleep.  You need to turn your awareness inward if you want to phase or AP.

OBE, that's a different story imo.  That's a dimensional shift.

From Cpt. Picard

Im not sure what you think you're doing, but all you did was repeat that paralysis has nothing to do with projection, then list different brain wave frequencies as evidence? Once again you are using rhetoric to try and distinguish between two different states which are really one. It dosen't matter whether you counciously go into trance or wake up in trance you are awake and no longer completely in REM sleep. As I've said, whether you enter trance counciously or wake up in it, it feels the same and the same things are accomplishable from there. As for your deffinition of trance, I'll agree with that somewhat, its just that councious projection is not possible from any of those states you listed, no body asleep-mind awake, no councious exit.

You are also getting the totoally wrong impression, I could not have trained myself to counciously project had I not possessed some mental disicpline. Much in the same way when a random person falls into paralysis, they dont project as they dont know what the state can be utilized for. Everything you guys have said about the mind and what it should be focussing on is essentially correct, but to say sleep paralysis is not needed at all or to say it is counterproductive, is nothing but a flat-out lie.

And finally from CFTraveler

I'm afraid not- they are different brainstates and have different brainwaves associated with them- deep trance is not on the same consciousness scale as sleep paralysis, as PR tried to explain- and the difference is night and day, mainly because in trance you are lucid and when you wake up paralyzed you're not.
And that is the difference- that's why I like to call one 'trance' or 'waking paralysis', and the other 'sleep paralysis'- and sleep paralysis is not good for projecting, unless you have managed to maintain lucidity, and fight the visceral fear that is so characteristic of this state.  And then, you have to work to get into the right focus, even while in sp.

Sorry to go back to this Xanth.

I'll just put my post on the next post. 

[Xanth]

PR and I were talking about this earlier today.
I was thinking about it further after the fact.

Brainwaves mean not too much to me

I connect them all by their potential 'end result'.
To me, that end result is: Can I phase or project from that state?

So to me, based upon *my* criteria... they're the same. 

HOWEVER, everyone keeps talking about brainwaves and such...
Does anyone have any to actually post to back up their claims?

~Ryan

[cpt. picard]

LOL Xanth, why did you start a new thread, that comment could have easily been used on the previous one lol   Anyways, whether you want to call it sleep paralysis, waking paralysis, trance state or F10, this is a good state to strive to get into, if you want a genuine OBE as opposed to a lucid dream (not that theres really a big difference). I also accidently found myself in paralysis one day about 7 years ago. After this I researched it and discovered the art of astral projection, since then I can enter the trance state fairly easily, although I have trouble explaining to people how this is done. Alot of it has to do with intent and maintaining awareness in my opinion, and of course just practicing to figure out what methods get you into paralysis the easiest.

[Tiny]

Well I'd like to leave one comment aswell.

It's just sad to see astralpulse becoming like astralsociety.us 

[personalreality]

I'm sorry Ryan, I don't keep an electroencephalogram recorder next to my bed for this purpose. 

I know this information because I've been studying brain wave patterns and their associated states of consciousness as well as sleep cycles for years in psych classes. 

I thought it was common knowledge that your brainwave output slows when you go to sleep and these different ranges of brainwave frequency cycles have been measured and labeled.  I mean, it's exactly the same as looking at a red light and knowing that the wave pattern of that electromagnetic energy is slower than the frequency pattern of a violet light. 

In the end, you are right in some regard.  It is essentially useless to bring this knowledge to projection/phasing work because we don't have any mechanism for biofeedback in our homes (ie - an EEG to show us our changing brainwave patterns as we induce deeper trance).  However, knowing these designations can serve as signposts along the way to the state of mind/body needed for an individual (i chose that word intentionally) to successfully project/phase.  If you read up on the associated physical sensations to their respective trance state you can identify them as you move through them.  This may be frivolous, but for some it may be the lynch pin to identifying what they need to do next.

Capt. Picard, it is impossible for me to harbor any negative feelings toward your misunderstanding of what i'm trying to say because you're capt. picard and i love star trek.  That aside, allow me to re-post the pertinent lines:

Trance - All brain waves are analogous to different types of trance in that they utilise brain and consciousness resources differently and provide different input and information filters.

different trance states (associated with different frequencies of brainwave output) utilize brain and consciousness resources differently and provide different input and information filters.

The word trance describes numerous altered states of consciousness, not just one.  I think I see the problem though, which I addressed above and provided my rebuttal for.  And I will no longer argue on that point because projection is a unique process and the way you define your experience is perfectly true, natural and necessary.

As for sleep paralysis, this is getting a bit tedious.  Sleep paralysis is REM atonia when you awaken during it.  Sleep paralysis technically describes a sleep disorder, often associated with narcolepsy (people go from waking consciousness to REM sleep suddenly and often experience sleep paralysis) and sleep apnea (when you stop breathing in your sleep which can awaken you from REM sleep), where you wake up during a REM cycle and the atonia is still present.  THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN.  REM atonia is a function of the body to protect itself during REM sleep, your awareness is not meant to return during this process.  The reason you are often not lucid (even though you have usually regained full awareness) is because you are coming out of a sleep state where your mind is most active.  There are often hypnagogic hallucinations associated with sleep paralysis which make it difficult to really determine whether one is awake or asleep and by the time you do figure it out the episode is over.  I mean you're coming out of a dream state, your mind still thinks its in the dream state for a short time and it is confused.  This can cause intense panic which IS counterproductive to projection/phasing. 

What I'm trying to express is that trying to induce sleep paralysis IS NOT POSSIBLE.  It is something that happens by mistake and can only happen when one is abruptly awakened from REM sleep.  When we project we are not inducing sleep paralysis.  We lose awareness of our body.  This is a result of slowing brainwave frequencies (ie a trance state).  It is exactly the same thing that happens when we are moving from waking consciousness to sleep every night.  Normally when we go to sleep we allow our consciousness to drift down into "unconsciousness" or "unawareness".  But, for us projectors/phasers, we teach ourselves how to maintain awareness to some degree during this process (the conscious exit people do anyway).  Thereby we achieve a deep trance state or altered state of consciousness that is conducive to the projection of consciousness. 

[cpt. picard]

  It is not I who is misunderstanding anything, it is you who does not know how to argue logically and prove your points using rational arguments and by providing some sort of evidence to back up your claims. Anyways, whether you want to make these useless distinctions or not, Mind awake-body asleep is the state new projectors should be striving for. Whether you wake up in this state, or induce it through "trance", this state is ideal for projection, and anyone telling you otherwise is either spreading disinformation or dosen't know what theyre talking about.

[personalreality]

Well, I think we've exhausted our argument. 

I am not offended, but I don't think you should say that I (or anyone else) is intentionally spreading disinformation or ignorant.  I don't have as much projection experience as some people here but I know a lot about neurology and metaphysics.  I do have a lot of experience in trance states though and i have personally distinguished between different levels of trance.  I would not intentionally misinform novice projectors nor would I consider myself ignorant on the subject.

However, I still disagree with the mind awake/body asleep model, but that's another subject. 

[Xanth]

Well, I think we've exhausted our argument. 

In my opinion that would be correct.
I mean, it's one thing to sit here and say that all the states have differing brainwaves... but it's another entirely to provide proof to that.

Instead, as I said, I prefer to look at the potential end result of the state instead of the state itself.

[cpt. picard]

I don't have as much projection experience as some people here but I know a lot about neurology and metaphysics.

Well that was about all I needed to hear, perhaps you should learn how to project yourself before you start telling beginners that the mind awake-body asleep model is wrong (which it isn't). There is a big difference between studying something and having years of actual experience with something. I feel as though I should also point out, that saying sleep paralysis and trance are different is one thing, but to say you don't agree with the mind awake-body asleep model at all? If you can still have movement in your physical body while in "deep trance", then you can't counciously project. Have fun lucid dreaming I guess...

[personalreality]

done

[Xanth]

If you can still have movement in your physical body while in "deep trance", then you can't counciously project. Have fun lucid dreaming I guess...

Is that a statement?  I'm just curious.
One of my hypothesis' is that it's not the case!

I'm becoming considerably convinced that one doesn't have to be physically paralyzed to shift their conscious awareness.  One merely has to shift their awareness away from this particular focus.  I've done this, albeit only with the imagination thing... if you want to know details, I was actually in the bathroom at the time.  ROFL  I won't go into anymore detail than that. LOL

Now, obviously, I can't prove this as of yet.  But, my recent practices with Phasing and using the "daydream" method, that's the particular phenomenon that I've come across.

In the very least, it's given me some food for thought. 

~Ryan

[personalreality]

I recommend researching magickal practice, including things like shamanic journeying and other types of "vision experiences".  IMO these journeys take place in the same place as astral projection.  The difference is just the degree of awareness you have while visiting.  AP would be considered full awareness of this place and very little to no awareness of the physical.  A visualization journey (which is used in magickal practice all the time to create an Astral Temple from which to work), for example, leaves the traveler partially aware of the physical.

For many of these journeys you do not need to be oblivious of your body.

In AP, if you have a mastery of focus you can turn your awareness completely away from the body without inducing some kind of physical sleep state.  Relaxation is helpful because it's harder to ignore tense muscles.  But if you have your skill developed well enough, you have the personal power of mind to turn your awareness inward almost on command.  I have met and validated people that can do this.  I interact with a hypnotist at work from time to time who I have watched induce deep "trance" within seconds, yes seconds.  He even did a hypnotism workshop where he had his own EEG and we watched his brainwave frequency jump from what looked like mid-range beta to mid-range theta in 30 seconds.  He went from standing in normal awareness to sitting in a chair (with no neck support) in deep trance in less than a minute.  There is no way he put his body to sleep that fast, yet I watched him induce a deep trance. 

[CFTraveler]

Is that a statement?  I'm just curious.
One of my hypothesis' is that it's not the case!

I'm becoming considerably convinced that one doesn't have to be physically paralyzed to shift their conscious awareness.  One merely has to shift their awareness away from this particular focus.  I've done this, albeit only with the imagination thing... if you want to know details, I was actually in the bathroom at the time.  ROFL  I won't go into anymore detail than that. LOL

Now, obviously, I can't prove this as of yet.  But, my recent practices with Phasing and using the "daydream" method, that's the particular phenomenon that I've come across.

In the very least, it's given me some food for thought.  

~Ryan

I can project without being paralyzed, but it has taken me around 10 years of conscious projecting to be able to.  So I would say, if you're starting out, get to the point of being completely paralyzed, but realize that with practice you can project without being paralyzed.  And, it's not as fun either.

[CFTraveler]

I have to add (because I answered a question in the other thread) that you don't need a eeg to know what state you're in, and it's not that hard to figure it out- if you're on your way to becoming unconscious, you're reaching trance- and if you've been sleeping and wake up paralyzed, you're in sleep paralysis.  That's as simple as it gets.
And I know most of you know me enough to know I've been spontaneously projecting for approximately 40 years (I'm 52 and my first remembered projection was as a child) and learned to project consciously and on purpose around ten years ago.  When you do it long enough you learn to recognize how your states feel.

Cheers, all.

[personalreality]

word

[cpt. picard]

Well that is your opinion, whether I wake up in paralysis or induce it, it feels the same to me and I can project from both. Anyways, I wouldn't mind hearing more about this projection without paralysis. I have done sort of a "weak" projection without paralysis, but I usually associate it more with remote viewing the astral as opposed to actually being in the astral. So if you don't mind, would anyone care to elaborate on their non-paralysis projections?

[personalreality]

i have never projected from a paralyzed state.

i have only been successfully consciously exiting for a couple months, but my projections aren't weak, though I do lack some control of where I can go.  I don't have enough personal power to fully control my environment, yet.  By that I mean that my mind kind of moves me on it's own.  Maybe it's more appropriate to call it my subconscious.   

Anyway, my projections are still very vivid and I have hyper-awareness, clearer than when I'm physically awake.

My body does not become paralyzed though.  My awareness becomes very focused on "the other side" and awareness of my body fades into the background, but it's still easy to move it if I shift my awareness back. 

[Naykid]

I've done both.  I'm not even sure what the argument is here. lol 

One of my favorite stories is when I was in paralysis and I asked for help, and someone grabbed both my ankles and started to pull.  Scared me for a good month after that.  As a rule though, I do not like finding myself paralyzed. No matter how many times I've done it, the fear is always at the highest level possible.  I think people just need to find what works for them and go with it.  I really don't think there are any set rules that needs to be followed, it's a matter of the person being as comfortable and at ease with what they are doing in order for things to click and work for them.

[personalreality]

you're right.

the argument is a little more complex than this, but basically I say that sleep paralysis is not the same thing as inducing a feeling of your body not being there.  Sleep paralysis is technically a sleep disorder because you're not supposed to wake up during it.  When you induce "sleep paralysis" you're not actually inducing sleep paralysis, you're inducing a state of dissociation from your body.  (and i use the word dissociation specifically in reference to the body, not in any sort of mental pathological sense)

but, this AP thing is a very subjective experience from beginning to end, so whatever you call what you do is basically irrelevant, so this argument was basically useless in many regards.

[Naykid]

Ahhhh.. I see what you mean now. 

Inducing a paralysis episode to you is just a deep meditation.   I would agree the two are different to me because of the fear and not being able to break free of it easily.  And yeah, I agree this argument really wasn't useful except for the exchange of the energies. 

[personalreality]

I would agree the two are different to me because of the fear and not being able to break free of it easily. 

I like how you make that distinction.

[Naykid]

Thanks.  I'm pretty simple, straight to the point and try to say as little as possible. 

[Stookie]

I do much more meditation sitting up than I do laying down and making "AP" attempts. It's very normal for me like this to have all kinds of experiences without my body going to sleep. I tend not to be aware of my physical body (sometimes I am), but it's awake and sitting up. I would say a "deep trance". This is from 14 years of sitting meditation too.

Also, the few OBE's I've had where I felt the most freedom and had the most control, I could also feel my physical body in bed the whole time, like a dual consciousness. It's not confusing like you think it would be. Having that connection is comforting for me during an OBE. I wish I could do that all the time.

[Velvet V.]

People who say that they can project without SP, are you saying that you can project wide awake? You have full control of your physical body, simultaneously? Because if you had no control, your body would act out everything you're doing in your astral realm or wherever it is that you think you are.

[Xanth]

People who say that they can project without SP, are you saying that you can project wide awake? You have full control of your physical body, simultaneously? Because if you had no control, your body would act out everything you're doing in your astral realm or wherever it is that you think you are.

I have an exercise for you.  Sit there and "think" about moving your arm.  Think about it... think as hard as you can.
It doesn't move.  It only moves because you do more than just "think" about it.

I believe this is the philosophy behind projecting anywhere/anytime.

This is simply my theory.