Suicide out of readiness to be finished with this physical world.

[Xtensity]

I know the general opinion of suicide in relation to the astral... how it's not a very good idea as whatever emotional state one is in upon death is what they will be in, in an even more intensified state, in the astral... How we're all here to learn individual lessons for our souls etc.

Though, what if one commits suicide out of readiness to be finished with this world, yet not in any sense of suffering. Say I am at such bliss and see absolutely no point to anything in this world in the sense that everyones actions are for materialistic advances. I see this world as a physical limiting ground for spiritual advancement. We are all here to learn lessons, but most of the potential lessons to be learned here become pointless and irrelevant beyond this physical world of low vibrations. The ultimate lessons being that nothing here is of any significant meaning in terms of the universal scale of things.

Perhaps I am just confused, but what lesson is there for me to learn my only goal in life is detachment from this physical world and spiritual advancement?

Please Comment, and don't give me any crap about depression and what not because that has nothing to do with my desire to be finished with this world.

[daytona955]

I'd be a liar if I said that such a thought hadn't crossed my mind before, if only thinking about it philosophically. But my thoughts did lead me on to think about a few opposing ideas. I am in no way commenting on your personal circumstances, but the main thing that struck me was that it would be selfish to those whom cared about me and depended on me. That in turn led me to think that, maybe been there for others, even people we don't know and whom themselves have only materialistic principles, helps your spirituality. After all, materialistic values do not make person bad or any less a worthy soul than you or I, it is just the nature of world we live in, and seeing beyond that was in itself for me an amazing epiphany, and a reason to be joyful that helping others is what it's all about. I get more of a kick out of helping a stranger in need than I do about thinking of my brand new whatever.
The upshot of my thoughts is that we are here for a reason, and there are great things to be experienced. You just need to find yours and not waste this chance.
Good luck and all the best.

[Everlasting]

Murder of self is quite a gamble. You will probably not like where you'll end up.

[CFTraveler]

Interestingly, I just finished a very similar conversation to this one, with a different flavor.
I have found that when you get into the metaphysical nitty-gritty of things, some people go through what you are going through and come to the same conclusion that you did- that nothing matters because everything is transcended eventually.
But it seems to me (and I could be wrong) that when people decide this isn't worth it, it really isn't about 'being done', but because they are really 'done' with their previous reasons for wanting to be here- when they transcend those reasons they think that they transcended 'the' reason for coming here in the first place.
Now, I don't know if you are following me here (and it's possible this will not make sense to you, it barely does to me) it seems to me, that if you had really transcended the desire to be here you would just stop being here.  This may not be obvious to you, but I see on a daily basis all manner of weird ways people stop existing here, and sometimes they just defy explanation, and statistical probabilities.  Which makes me think that their number was up, regardless of what appearances were.

So is it possible that you perhaps haven't figured out what really is the reason for being here, other than the obvious one?
---
Just think about it.

[blis]

I agree with CF. If you really had no reason for being here then you wouldnt be here any more.

If you are in such a state of bliss why end it?

I know where you're coming from with the materialism thing. It's difficult to not get dragged into it by modern life and the way most people are but if thats the only thing you want to get away from go live in an ashram or a cave or something.

[Xtensity]

I agree with CF. If you really had no reason for being here then you wouldnt be here any more.

If you are in such a state of bliss why end it?

I know where you're coming from with the materialism thing. It's difficult to not get dragged into it by modern life and the way most people are but if thats the only thing you want to get away from go live in an ashram or a cave or something.

"Ending it" implies it goes away upon death. Which, astrally, it doesn't/shouldn't.

[skiax]

It sounds to me as if you think the grass might be greener on the other side of the fence. In school, we called this the magic pill.
"If I could only skip the practicing, hard work, years of dedication and just take a pill where I come out an awesome musician", or what have you. Ok, maybe you're not suicidal, but if there are issues you'd rather skip over or avoid, what makes you think you will be leaving them behind?
  Do what you have to do. Best wishes.
                                                                                                                              -Jim-

[The Present Moment]

The sky has detachment, yet it is still there.

[Lexy]

Of all the reasons to kill yourself this has to be the lamest one.
I think it was your choice to be here but you forgot why & you need to figure it out.
Meditate.

[Psan]

Good thoughts and a meaningful post (I was getting tired of those "dream or AP?" posts).

Though, what if one commits suicide out of readiness to be finished with this world, yet not in any sense of suffering.

Sure, you can do that, it won't be called a suicide. In east its called "Maha-Samadhi", the yogi having evolved sufficiently goes and sits in a cave and consciously leaves his/her body for further evolution/progress. Its not that these people don't leave bodies when they alive, they mostly do (just as AP), but keep a thread attached to the physical. In Mahasamadhi, all energetic bonds are broken. The body is offered to animals or elements.

What will happen if you don't do it properly ? Anybody's guess, I guess it won't go well . This is the proper way. My question is are you self-realized ? And do you have this ability to leave consciously?

Perhaps I am just confused, but what lesson is there for me to learn my only goal in life is detachment from this physical world and spiritual advancement?

Simply leaving the physical does not guarantee progress. You will be only as good there as you are now (or maybe worse depending on how advanced you are). Ability to leave physical and experience higher worlds is a by-product of spiritual advancement, not the other way round. So your hope that you can progress better out there, is only an assumption, imho. It is said that human life is a superfast lane for spiritual progress because it presents the needed situations, so one should make full use of it.

Your goal of detachment is very noble but I guess you haven't achieved it yet, because you are still here on earth. When you are 100% detached the body lets go of you (no remaining karma, all gone). You won't be able to stay here even for a second. Our attachments keep us here, (even after death), once there is nothing to anchor you, you are free.

I'm not saying that you will grow weak or fall sick when this happens, you simply shed the body and move on. Of course its very rare to do this, not many are so advanced. If you feel that you have reached this stage, no one can stop you. Just take care that you destroy your vehicle properly *after* leaving it (wait for a day or two just in case), as there are things that can misuse it. All this must be done under the supervision of a Master who has already done it himself, this is important. Else there are chances that you will end up just like an ordinary dead guy in best case or in trouble in worst.

I also agree with above posters here, good points, especially CFTraveler hits the bulls eye.

[indian]

I know the general opinion of suicide in relation to the astral... how it's not a very good idea as whatever emotional state one is in upon death is what they will be in, in an even more intensified state, in the astral... How we're all here to learn individual lessons for our souls etc.

Though, what if one commits suicide out of readiness to be finished with this world, yet not in any sense of suffering. Say I am at such bliss and see absolutely no point to anything in this world in the sense that everyones actions are for materialistic advances. I see this world as a physical limiting ground for spiritual advancement. We are all here to learn lessons, but most of the potential lessons to be learned here become pointless and irrelevant beyond this physical world of low vibrations. The ultimate lessons being that nothing here is of any significant meaning in terms of the universal scale of things.

Perhaps I am just confused, but what lesson is there for me to learn my only goal in life is detachment from this physical world and spiritual advancement?

Please Comment, and don't give me any crap about depression and what not because that has nothing to do with my desire to be finished with this world.

Who told you that you are here to learn some lessons? who told you that your only goal is to detach yourself from this physical world?

I do not know how come you did not accept the idea that you are here to help poor? What about the idea that you are here to do good deeds and after that you will get haven and will enjoy with virgins there?

These all are ideas given by so many peoples according to their knowledge. You must b claver enough that you could see foolishness in "helping poor and doing good deeds" but you got caught by the idea of "you are here to learn lesson".

Its all crap, and you just read it and decided that you have very very "Ultimate" goals while other people are foolish and they do not even know what their ultimate goal is. And this beautiful life has no value before your ultimate goals, such a kiddish thought.

There is NO purpose to be here and there is NO goal. We have born and brought up in way where we need "Purpose" for everything. If you will keep looking at your life with the purpose, you will miss the beauty. There is No purpose .. remember it.

If your mother would have thought about the purpose of giving you birth, you probably wouldn't have born. If your friend think about the purpose of hugging you, then i don't think he will ever hug you. If these trees flowers, birds and sunshine starts thinking about the purpose, then they will never blossom.

Read budhha and other enlighten masters and once you finish reading, wipe them off from your mind. Their truth is their own and you have not discovered anything yet. You just read some crap and believed that was true.

If the ultimate goal was something bigger than this life, then after being enlightened Buddha must have killed himself.

Discover yourself. Do not listen anyone, just discover. And I am 100% sure that once you will know the truth of your own, you will dance and hug everyone around you.

My wishes are with you.

[NoY]

it sounds like you want to leave because your bored, I understand
if life wants to keep you here at this level then let it work hard for you and keep you entertained

:NoY:

[Astral316]

I thought about suicide a lot following a broken spine/pelvis last summer. With chronic nerve pain and a myriad of medical problems I got to know suffering well. The thoughts went away as I recovered but I'd hate to think where I'd be if I didn't... others aren't so lucky. Point is, in the grand scheme of things to take your life due to emotional or philosophical reasons is petty. You'd be amazed with what little some people have and how much they physically suffer, yet they still cling to life. Did the Buddha call it quits after attaining enlightenment under the bodhi tree? No, he wanted to elevate others to his spiritual level and improve life for all. Don't use a false sense of spiritual superiority as an excuse for suicide because if you need the excuse you aren't as advanced as you think. Just my opinion.

[Xanth]

indian,
You're a very angry person...  

I'm sorry, but I just can't help but disagree with your entire stance.  You're more than welcome to your own opinions though.

Personally, I see this physical reality as a sort of experiential school.  We're here to learn and grow.  As pure consciousness with no limitations, it's hard to truly experience certain things.  Death for one... if you're pure consciousness, how do you experience death?  How do you even KNOW what it is?  How do you learn that which you don't even know exists?  In any case, that's why we're here... to just experience and learn.

Obviously I can't prove any of this, as it's my own personal truth that *I KNOW*.  I can't share anything more than that with you.

[Xtensity]

The sky has detachment, yet it is still there.

If I did not have to participate here in this physical body I would not have to deal with earthly matters that restrict me on the daily.


----

Many of you say that if I truly had no desires then I would already be gone, because detachment keeps us here. I partially disagree and agree with this. Attachment does keep us here, but attachment can often be against our conscious will.
Have you ever been attached very closely to a person in an emotional sense, but you do not get the same feelings in return, and this attachment brings you nothing but pain. Consciously, I do not want the attachment, but the attachment is there.

As I do not desire to be attached to anything, but the attachments are there, restricting me. Who said I must take the time to let go of them with much meditation, when I can physically detach from this world forcefully. Why does it matter how I leave this world?

People talk as if a higher power governs everything, our spiritual evolution, which I know many people have such beliefs. Who says I have to follow this certain path, or do things this certain way. Why cant I choose to cease to exist completely, including spiritual elimination? Who says I am required to be here to help the poor, unfortunate, etc; and yes I know I am sounding selfish as I say this. Don't hate me for saying this, I am only a curious questioning person.

Some of you have interacted with highly advanced spiritual beings on the astral, but so what? They are merely highly advanced spiritual beings, they want to help us spiritually advance. Who says we have to? Who says because they are advanced that we should believe them? They tell us the things we must do to spiritually advance ourselves, but why should we believe this is the only choice we have? Why should we believe this is the only path to do so?

For instance. There can be very powerful people here on the physical, in economic/governmental sense, though this does not indicate we should trust them. There can be very deceptive people in power, as there can be very deceptive creatures who fail to gain power at all. Power can be with or without deception. As Spiritual advancement and power  can be with or without deception/negative intention. Everything is individual and to think one thing always accompanies another is foolish, mainly because it is flat out wrong and can be observed almost anywhere. Whose to say that all this trust, love, and manipulation for everything is nothing but to manipulate us, while none the less spiritually advancing us? How do we know? We can't. Why are we so easy to believe that some things are simply grouped together, that power always accompanies loving trust and honesty? If anything, the most powerful person is the very best at deceiving.

Why should we believe that just because a highly advanced spiritual being has the power to generate such intense emotions that we can experience, that they are not capable of deception? If anything, they are capable of the most powerful deception, direct astral emotional manipulation. None of what they say can ultimately be proven here on earth by any of us.

How do we know, that this is all there is, that there is ultimately one path/goal in the universe, to spiritually advance in 'this' manner, etc. Based on what I've seen, experienced first hand, meaning as we perceive it is ultimately subjective, a result of biological wiring.

How do we know any of this exist beyond death, yes is all very real while living, just not of this physical realm, our energy goes no where.

Just as the brains extraordinarily ability to take our everyday life meaning, and put it into metaphors while we dream. No doubt we are all linked together, for this has been proven first hand by many of us. I feel repetitive, but how do we 'know' that what we experience, hear in the astral, etc, is what awaits us upon death. How do we know this world exist upon death? How do we know we are not being greatly deceived by higher spiritual beings as a form of control for their plan. There is no way we could know as they are unsurpassingly more powerful than us. Just as a poor liar remains poor and unpowerful, and the Exceptionally good liar gains power, trust, etc. Now keep in mind before you reply, I am not saying that good intentions don't exist out there.

I know many 'Good' advanced spiritual beings will leave when you ask, and other 'Bad'/deceptive spiritual beings will often not. How do we know for sure this willingness to leave by request correlates with good intentions and not extremely good/smart deception?

How do we know it's a distinct line between

Good|Bad
Powerful|Weak

What stops everything from metaphorically being independent of everything else and existing in infinite possibilities/combinations. How do we know there is an invisible tie holding all things good together and all things bad together in their own categories? Sorry if I have been unclear, but I am trying my hardest to illustrate my point. How do we truly know there is only a distinct set of characteristics for highly advanced spirituality/energetic development. How do we know there is only one path, one way, one method for attaining such.... I guess I'll see from the responses who truly understands what I am trying to say here.

"The greatest form of control, is where you think you're free, when you're being fundamentally manipulated and dictated to. One form of dictatorship is being in a prison cell where you can see the bars and touch it. The other one is when you can't see the bars and think you're free" - This applies directly to the societal,physical world, people in power,etc..., why can it not also apply to the spiritual world?

[Lexy]

It sounds like you believe in the illusion so much you are willing to let it take you down.
the illusion wins because you can't see past it. Its not about what is outside of you.
Everything you need to advance spiritually is within. Once you leave this plane of
Existance you won't have that anymore. You won't have time to reflect, you won't
Have this space to be an individual, you won't have this body to feel & experience.
This is the place to be enlightened fast. ..this is a spiritual training ground....
The "higher" you will just bring you back here..in a way you don't have a choice because
its not really you making the decision. You are not who you think you are, meditate
and find youself.

[Xtensity]

It sounds like you believe in the illusion so much you are willing to let it take you down.
the illusion wins because you can't see past it. Its not about what is outside of you.
Everything you need to advance spiritually is within. Once you leave this plane of
Existance you won't have that anymore. You won't have time to reflect, you won't
Have this space to be an individual, you won't have this body to feel & experience.
This is the place to be enlightened fast. ..this is a spiritual training ground....
The "higher" you will just bring you back here..in a way you don't have a choice because
its not really you making the decision. You are not who you think you are, meditate
and find youself.

Interesting. What illusion do you speak of though? If you read my last post on the last page, which It doesn't seem like you did.... Why are we so easy to believe that things have to be this specific way. I'm not even going to retype it haha, go back and read it and address some of those points/questions/curiosities please. I'm not doubting you in general, I just have skepticism for the so called mechanics of things.

Read this
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/suicide_out_of_readiness_to_be_finished_with_this_physical_world-t33439.0.html;msg275552#msg275552

[Astral316]

You asked a lot of questions in your previous post... you also gave the best answer:

How do we know? We can't.

So all this really boils down to... are you willing to take the chance?

[Lexy]

I don't have time right now & I doubt you would understand it. Its hard to translate a spiritual breakthrough, you just have to have one for yourself. 

[Stookie]

Interesting. What illusion do you speak of though? If you read my last post on the last page, which It doesn't seem like you did.... Why are we so easy to believe that things have to be this specific way. I'm not even going to retype it haha, go back and read it and address some of those points/questions/curiosities please. I'm not doubting you in general, I just have skepticism for the so called mechanics of things.

Read this
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/suicide_out_of_readiness_to_be_finished_with_this_physical_world-t33439.0.html;msg275552#msg275552

From what you've already stated, it doesn't matter what anyone else says anyways. In a way, that's a good thing. You're obviously independent in your thinking. I can respect that. Your statements also reflect some of my own sentiments: that a lot of people just go along with what they've heard or read without much reflection on it.

I agree with what Lexy said, but in this case it doesn't matter. You're right "why should we believe what _____ says". And from there, all of your spiritual/metaphysical/non-physical/whatever is 100% YOUR responsibility.

How do we truly know there is only a distinct set of characteristics for highly advanced spirituality/energetic development. How do we know there is only one path, one way, one method for attaining such....

I don't think anyone said any of those things. That's something that sounds based on stereotypical religious new-age garbage. People can give tips and advice, but everyone has their own path. You have to find yours. Or don't.

[CFTraveler]

I do not know how come you did not accept the idea that you are here to help poor? What about the idea that you are here to do good deeds and after that you will get haven and will enjoy with virgins there?

Even though I agree that he could have taken the idea of being here to help others as a possible reason, he did he wanted to be "finished with this world".  Raping virgins is all about the flesh/world, regardless of religious affiliation.

These all are ideas given by so many peoples according to their knowledge. You must b claver enough that you could see foolishness in "helping poor and doing good deeds" but you got caught by the idea of "you are here to learn lesson".

Its all crap, and you just read it and decided that you have very very "Ultimate" goals while other people are foolish and they do not even know what their ultimate goal is. And this beautiful life has no value before your ultimate goals, such a kiddish thought.

That's an interesting statement.  Just because you don't believe in goals doesn't mean they are crap and life is meaningless- it just means they are meaningless to you.

There is NO purpose to be here and there is NO goal. We have born and brought up in way where we need "Purpose" for everything. If you will keep looking at your life with the purpose, you will miss the beauty. There is No purpose .. remember it.

I agree that looking for purpose may make you miss what you have in front of you, but it doesn't mean there's no purpose.  We just don't know what it means.

If your mother would have thought about the purpose of giving you birth, you probably wouldn't have born.

I disagree.  Many mothers have children because they think this is what their purpose is.  Some are right and some are wrong- it just depends on the person.  I agree that there doesn't necessarily have to be another purpose other than the purpose of being here and experiencing life, but there is no way that we can know it.  So we have to assume the purpose is being, and that may be enough for some.

If the ultimate goal was something bigger than this life, then after being enlightened Buddha must have killed himself.

But he didn't- instead he dedicated his life to teaching what he learned to others, so that could be said to have been his purpose.

Discover yourself. Do not listen anyone, just discover. And I am 100% sure that once you will know the truth of your own, you will dance and hug everyone around you.

I do agree with you there.

I think that Indian is saying that life doesn't need to have a purpose to be lived, and I agree with that.  And I also agree that sometimes we miss the best part because we are looking for purpose behind everything- it's how the western mind thinks.
Whether this is good or bad, who knows, it just is a cultural thing.

[Xtensity]

Thank you for the responses. I appreciate all criticism, input, and opinions.

Though my major question has still not been addressed, (while there may not be an answer to it, I desire to know other peoples opinions/input)......

Why do we have to do anything? Why 'MUST' we develop spiritually? Why 'MUST' we have a path? I am not asking this from the point of view of someone so attached to the material world that they don't want to put forth effort, because regardless the question is the same.... why must we put forth effort?

What makes the 'objective purpose/functioning of the universe' spiritual advancement? Why can we not chose to exist as pure raw energy, part of the universe, no consciousness? Why must we develop spiritually, because in a sense this is elevating our power.

As a Buddha desires no power here on the physical, why would a Buddha desire any power in the astral in the form of knowledge/enlightenment. Could it not be said that this desire for spiritual elevation is a form of greed in and of itself, that the only way to escape greed is to purely not exist? For not desiring one thing means you inherently desire another, this is an ultimate truth. The greed for nothing physical. The only was to have no greed/desire is to not exist. For lack of desire is desire in and of itself because you desire lack of desire. A paradox. The only way to avoid this is to be nothing, to not even 'be' in the first place. Even if you do nothing and float with the universal flow as conscious energy, that is a desire also, to do nothing.

Would it not be ideal to be raw energy coexisting with the universe if this is the state one/Buddha would be representative of through hours upon hours in a "one with the universe" meditative state? To me, this would be the ultimate level of peace.

[CFTraveler]

Why do we have to do anything? Why 'MUST' we develop spiritually? Why 'MUST' we have a path?

I don't think we 'must' do anything in particular.  But the fact is, that we feel we have to, or at least it is a drive innate in some of us.  So the question may be, why do we think we have to?  I don't know the answer, but I'm not happy if I don't feel that I am getting closer to something- something that I can't quite put my finger on. 

[Lexy]

Consider this..you had a goal & chose to be here to attain that goal whatever that maybe.
Wouldn't that make you feel as though you must do it? The fact that you question all
Of this means you have a feeling that there is something you must do. I don't think
you must do it but that is your choice.

You have a great attachment to be free of all of this and another that it will
Be bliss & peace on the other side. No one can tell you that's for certain. Why not
Try to find peace here instead of risking something else you would not be happy about?
What if you are disappointed there too? Didn't you say it would carry over? You think
Only your bliss carries over & not the rest? You have a lot of disappointment for this
World, maybe you wanted to come here to help change it? How you feel effects others
around you, it has a rippling effect ...maybe this isn't about you? If you could come to
peace with the world, you can help change how other disappointed people feel too.
Just a thought. You have to put effort in most things...I can't imagine you won't have
to do something you don't like somewhere else.

[Killa Rican]

I'm with the perception that what can play a role in one's suicidal feeling, is the feeling of uncertainty. In this hard game we call life not everyone is equal, not everyone is on the same level. If your suicidal and off yourself because you think theres nothing after you die then you really didnt win or lose anything. IF there does turn out to be an afterlife, then your no longer uncertain. You know for a fact there's a wider reality, you know for a fact there is or isnt a God. Your know for a fact you will reunite with your loved ones.  You know for a fact how much you F*cked up in the previous life it doesnt matter because your conciousness still 'exists' and you have infinite amount of time to fix your karma,  and you will make the best you can out of this much much "Better" place. It's understandable that its not easy for everyone to simply 'fix' there life according to there desires. Life Is unpredictable. Uncertainty plays a large role in that.

My opinion anyways.