Suicide out of readiness to be finished with this physical world.

[Astral316]

Why do we have to do anything? Why 'MUST' we develop spiritually? Why 'MUST' we have a path? I am not asking this from the point of view of someone so attached to the material world that they don't want to put forth effort, because regardless the question is the same.... why must we put forth effort?

I read a story somewhere about Robert Monroe finding his "home" in an astral experience. He was up in the clouds on a clear day, uplifting music was playing and he was filled with peace. When he looked closely at a stream of moving clouds he noticed they flowed in a repeating pattern... over, and over, and over again. Soon he got bored with what seemed like paradise, opting to return to the physical. The moral is... we most likely *want* to spiritually advance to avoid the same old same old. I've heard theories that you can create your own world in the astral to go to when you die, though. If this is true I see no reason why you can't just chill in your own little "consciousness nook" for eternity.

As a Buddha desires no power here on the physical, why would a Buddha desire any power in the astral in the form of knowledge/enlightenment. Could it not be said that this desire for spiritual elevation is a form of greed in and of itself, that the only way to escape greed is to purely not exist? For not desiring one thing means you inherently desire another, this is an ultimate truth. The greed for nothing physical. The only was to have no greed/desire is to not exist. For lack of desire is desire in and of itself because you desire lack of desire. A paradox. The only way to avoid this is to be nothing, to not even 'be' in the first place. Even if you do nothing and float with the universal flow as conscious energy, that is a desire also, to do nothing.

The Buddha didn't try to eliminate desire... he taught the Middle Way... control your desires, don't let your desires control you. True enlightenment isn't reached through a desire for power but a desire for truth. Desire doesn't equate to greed because greed implies personal advance to the detriment of others.

Would it not be ideal to be raw energy coexisting with the universe if this is the state one/Buddha would be representative of through hours upon hours in a "one with the universe" meditative state? To me, this would be the ultimate level of peace.

That is theoretically where one goes after becoming enlightened, but I don't think "having an advanced idea of what to expect post mortem" will get you there as fast as you hope.

[Xtensity]

That is theoretically where one goes after becoming enlightened, but I don't think "having an advanced idea of what to expect post mortem" will get you there as fast as you hope.

If this is where one goes after being enlightened, then where is one before existing?

That is my question. I am not concerned with what may await me after death. I am concerned with the idea that I MUST do that. Why do I need to participate period. Not just in this physical world, but in all the realms and planes of existence...? Why must "I Be"..?

(Yes my overall position has changed since the original post, but not much)

[blis]

Why must "I Be"..?

Man that's the deepest question I've heard in ages.

To even approach answering it I suppose one would first have to realise what "I" is and what it is to be.

[Xtensity]

Man that's the deepest question I've heard in ages.

To even approach answering it I suppose one would first have to realise what "I" is and what it is to be.

Well, perhaps to redefine my question somewhat... Why must my conscious experience exist? Why must I perceive, or be aware. Why can't I be nothing, which is a paradox in and of-itself because I'm using the word 'I'... but you know what I mean...right?

[Astral316]

Well, perhaps to redefine my question somewhat... Why must my conscious experience exist? Why must I perceive, or be aware. Why can't I be nothing, which is a paradox in and of-itself because I'm using the word 'I'... but you know what I mean...right?

Yeah I get what you're saying. It's very possible there are ways to not subjectively exist but still objectively exist (and therefore not violate the "nothing outside consciousness" belief.) In the same vein as ideas like locked-in thought cycles, soul retrievals, astral hospitals, rehab, waiting rooms, etc... I've thought of a few in theory:

A) You opt to have your spirit wiped clean of all memories and information learned so that it's just a "beginner soul." It would still be your consciousness starting over but it would be without a desire for nonexistence.

B) Your consciousness is reabsorbed into the physical to sustain its density. Perhaps this would mimmick the feeling of "deep sleep."

C) You are placed into a perpetual state of forgetfulness. Imagine staring at something somewhere for eternity and every moment is your first subjective experience.

[Xtensity]

Yeah I get what you're saying. It's very possible there are ways to not subjectively exist but still objectively exist (and therefore not violate the "nothing outside consciousness" belief.) In the same vein as ideas like locked-in thought cycles, soul retrievals, astral hospitals, rehab, waiting rooms, etc... I've thought of a few in theory:

A) You opt to have your spirit wiped clean of all memories and information learned so that it's just a "beginner soul." It would still be your consciousness starting over but it would be without a desire for nonexistence.

B) Your consciousness is reabsorbed into the physical to sustain its density. Perhaps this would mimmick the feeling of "deep sleep."

C) You are placed into a perpetual state of forgetfulness. Imagine staring at something somewhere for eternity and every moment is your first subjective experience.

B) sounds more of what I'm talking about, but then again these are only speculations. All of those options you've proposed still involve consciousness in some form. True deep sleep would lack all awareness more or less, or so we think, but the fact is there is still something there that is sleeping. What I'm more directly aiming for is non-existence, period.

Though with this being thought about. If I died right now, with my current desires in my head, would they be wiped/overridden by my higher self? Isn't this somewhat in a way slavery so to speak. Honestly I believe 'Higher Self' is somewhat of a misnomer. How can there be another 'self' with it being 'separate'. Are we not aware of our higher self meaning we don't control it, or is it not us at all? It's a very perplexing thought to actually analyze it and try to identify 'yourself' with a 'higher self' when taking into account your various desires. My mind boggles over the very idea.

It's starting to seem like there is no such thing as the 'self' in the singular, but 'self' in the plural, which is a contradiction. I'm not sure, it's very confusing. I would like to here you all's thoughts on this, in the mean time, I'm going to go meditate on it.

[Stookie]

Well, perhaps to redefine my question somewhat... Why must my conscious experience exist? Why must I perceive, or be aware. Why can't I be nothing, which is a paradox in and of-itself because I'm using the word 'I'... but you know what I mean...right?

Good questions. And I agree, it is a paradox. It's like we exist, but we exist as illusions. So we don't really exist. So if we're really "raw energy coexisting with the universe", why would we experience an illusory existence? If energy is infinite, and the illusion is energy, then there is no choice but for everything that is possible to happen. So everything has to happen and our "I" is just one of those illusory things born out of infiniteness. Because infiniteness can't not be.

[The Present Moment]

Please pick up any inanimate object in reach and ask it these questions. I think you'll get better answers. Sentient life is biased.

[Xtensity]

Please pick up any inanimate object in reach and ask it these questions. I think you'll get better answers. Sentient life is biased.

Having input from multiple peoples point of views is what I desire. Different opinions, various thoughts on the subject...hence why I would post on a forum where multiple biased points of views exist in the first place.

[The Present Moment]

Having input from multiple peoples point of views is what I desire. Different opinions, various thoughts on the subject...hence why I would post on a forum where multiple biased points of views exist in the first place.

Inanimate objects have no answers, it's silly to ask them questions. I didn't mean to criticize other opinions.

[Xtensity]

Inanimate objects have no answers, it's silly to ask them questions. I didn't mean to criticize other opinions.

Everything has an answer in one form or another, some just may not be what you're looking for... and some are just more clear than others. Silence, is itself an answer, what one does with such silence is met with many paths...some of which sometimes show that silence is more than it appears.  

[Sourzu]

I've just watched the movie "What dreams may come", and there you came to hell when you commited suicide.
But if you die in an accident or so, you came to heaven.
Well, loved that movie.

[personalreality]

Anyone read "The Myth of Sisyphus" by Robert Camus?  (I think that's the name)

Part of the book is the philosophical consideration of suicide.