A bit more rambling...

[Steve 2B]

Hey yup,

In the last week or so I've been considering what my progress has been over the last six months,realized how rusty my imagination has become over the years. If I'm brutally honest with myself I realize that my imagination has become the equivalent of a 250Lb couch potato, what this has to do with what's (I think) has been throwing off all my attempts to gain access to focus 2 and beyond. I can lie there quite happily in varying degrees of focus ten for an hour or more, still my FoA won't budge an inch. I'll listen to the Monroe cd or some track with a bi-neural beat, will have the breath shallow out, feel the brain power-down, the eyes will switch off and still I'm left with the notion that there's something fundamental I've left out of the mental equation...

I've been looking through a lot of the older posts, reading up on the use/training of the imagination, and engaging the senses within a rundown, specifically getting myself to move around within the 1st person, instead of the previous and easier 3rd person-release-abstract/woolly sense of movement. In the last two weeks I've essentially put the phasing attempts on hold, have been working exclusively working with building up my imagination  muscles. The scenario has remained the same, will go through the rundown viewing the various rooms/areas I have created, tho now making the point of improving the visual aspects. It's been a slow process so far, find even within a single room, e.g My 'energy conversion box room' there is a sup rising lack of clarity, when compared to either a hypnogogic snapshot, or waking life even. But the thing that's come to me in the last few days is that my perception of the 'minds-eye-world' is getting better with practice, things don't seem quite so far away/abstract.  
I'm wondering if anyone has tried this at all, or have we all been using what we're given, so to speak ?

I'm not sure if this is right, or not...But to me it seems to boil down to a balance of 3 things;


1.Intention
2.Imagination
3.Relaxation

Just some thought/ramblings :)

Thoughts? Comments?

As always, ;)

Steve

[RooJ]

Hey Steve,

I can lie there quite happily in varying degrees of focus ten for an hour or more

The main problem i have is falling asleep during practice, its my fault, i just dont get enough sleep on a night. The reason i mention it is because i wanted you to realise, which im sure you do, that if you can hold F10 for 1 hour+ without a problem you have a great stepping stone once you get past your current wall.

But the thing that's come to me in the last few days is that my perception of the 'minds-eye-world' is getting better with practice, things don't seem quite so far away/abstract.
I'm wondering if anyone has tried this at all, or have we all been using what we're given, so to speak ?

I have tried this, with suprisingly powerful results. Many months back i was in a similar situation, i was frustrated with my inability to visualize and decided to see if it was possible to train myself. I was shocked that same day when i practiced visualisation during work (yeah su me ). I found it very difficult to visualise anything, until i tried to visualise a lion. I imagined a lion, as seen on animal documentaries, maybe catching another animal etc. I found i could clearly see the lion, especially its face. Id get very vivid images that could last up to 5 seconds or more, alot like hypnogogia.

The lion was a breakthrough for me (no matter what the situation i can always visualise one clearly), after practicing alot with this image i worked my way onto others. One day, no more than 10 days later, i decided to try something more complex in the form of a tropical island. After a while of trying i got similarly powerful images, really vivid colours which actually took my breath like powerful hypnogogia can do.
I always found the colours in island images hard to visualise, white sand, turquoise waters, blue sky, green palms etc. I think i approached it by building the image up part by part, at a certain point it would just take a life of its own like hypnogogia, maybe a perfect view of a beach but not from the point i was imagining. This was all done while fully concious, and i had lots of interesting experiences with this.

Somewhere along the line ive stopped putting effort into this so im not sure whether i could still manage good images (apart from lions), my rundown scenarios tend to be pretty dull anyway.
Thinking about it, theres a possibility that i was experiencing an f1/f2 overlay during some of the more vivid images.

After reading your post its motivated me to practice visualisation again, its seems stupid to me now that i give up something i was good at, hopefully i can get back to where i left off.

Good luck, and feel free to ask me any questions.

>RooJ

[Steve 2B]

Hi Rooj  

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who's been trying this out, by what you've written it sounds like I'm doing something that'll help me out in the long-run
I've also been trying out little exercises at work too, when I get a small space, just try to visulize small specific things like objects or at lunch I'll spend a quiet 5 minutes trying to get a clear picture of the room where I begin my phasing practice session.
Your Lion sounds really cool! I wish I could get my mental pictures as clear as this

I've been thinking about the focus ten thing, made another post about what the symptoms of this problem are...I honestly think if I can find the solution to this one I'll have bridged the gap, so to speak.
In the last week I've been trying to phase after going to bed (As normal), to sleep. The funny thing is I can get all kinds of swirly colours/ hypnogogia without even attempting to go the usual route. No mental relaxation, no listening to cd's, etc...I'll just lay there and do something along Franks noticing exercise and it just does it all by itself. I'm starting to wonder if I've been barking up the wrong tree all along? If I can find some awnsers/help to the questions other thread, then I'll stick with that as it quite litterally takes 0 (zero) effort.

Then at least everyone will sigh in relief, say ahhh some peace and quiet, at last! LoL

Cheers Rooj,


Steve

[greatoutdoors]

Steve, you raise a good point. I cannot just close my eyes and visualize anything. Now if I wait and just watch I will start to see colors, images, etc., but I have no control over what comes along. So any advice you care to share about improving that ability is appreciated, at least by me.

As to clarity, when I get right on the edge of sleep, then my dream mode (for lack of a better word) will kick in and the images I am seeing become crystal clear and life-like. But it's hard as heck to hold that level, because when I start to mentally focus on the clear images, then I start to pull out of the deep level and, poof, I'm back to muddy water, so to speak.

[RooJ]

Your Lion sounds really cool! I wish I could get my mental pictures as clear as this

Ive noticed that when visualising the lion in brighter surroundings, like at work, although the centre of the image is clear, its like looking at a picture in a frame. The frame however is just the random grey noise you get when you close your eyes, and it blurrs and fades into the clear image in the centre.

The island visualisations in comparison were full screen hi-res images. I obtained these layed down in quieter darker surroundings.

The funny thing is I can get all kinds of swirly colours/ hypnogogia without even attempting to go the usual route. No mental relaxation, no listening to cd's, etc...I'll just lay there and do something along Franks noticing exercise and it just does it all by itself

Sounds like your on the right track with that. Hypnogogia is a good indicator that your brain is starting to run sleep.exe (so to speak). I find the noticing exercise one of the most useful methods for getting into deep states, you see all kinds of really vivid imagery just by watching and relaxing.
I tend to use what i call a "nose dive into sleep" (posted in dream section, http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20670) This allows me to quickly reach good hypnogogia, although i have to be careful not to overshoot into sleep. From there its noticing onwards.

greatoutdoors,

As to clarity, when I get right on the edge of sleep, then my dream mode (for lack of a better word) will kick in and the images I am seeing become crystal clear and life-like. But it's hard as heck to hold that level, because when I start to mentally focus on the clear images, then I start to pull out of the deep level and, poof, I'm back to muddy water, so to speak.

I share your issues, i was always struggling for a way to enter these images, however lately i stumbled across the following:

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12621

If you scroll to phase 3 you can see the author (who's apparently an accomplished WILD'er) suggests you carry on through these images as before until you get to the sleep paralysis stage. Whether you think he's attaining a WILD or phasing it shouldnt really matter, the outcome is the same.

Best of luck,

>RooJ

[Steve 2B]

greatoutdoors,

Steve, you raise a good point. I cannot just close my eyes and visualize anything. Now if I wait and just watch I will start to see colors, images, etc., but I have no control over what comes along. So any advice you care to share about improving that ability is appreciated, at least by me.

What I've been trying out, that might be of some help to you is to just look at something (Anything), snap your eyes shut and try to hold onto the image as long as possible in your minds eye. Also when you're relaxing try seeing really simple shapes, or everyday objects. I quite looking at spoons(I like the shape for some reason), close my eyes, think of the overall shape then add the shiny metal effect with all the reflections, etc and then spin it around in my mind, see if I can picture how the reflections change with the light. Of course the image is still pretty dim, when compared to physical world spoon...But It's a start Also I treat the snapping the eyes shut a bit like a mental game of sorts, it might sound really stupid but I'm really starting to have fun with it. It takes very little mental effort, can do it pretty much all day. As to what effects all this will have long term I don't really know, but given how bad my mental visualization is currently it certainly can't get any worse! LoL

Give it a go, be interested to hear what happens.

Rooj,

I'll have to try out the 'nose-dive', see what happens I like the dream-views forum, have some interesting stuff there.  I've been doing the noticing thing pretty much every night, for the last 4 or 5 days, it always seems to be there in varying degrees...I'll be continuing my usual phasing practice that I do for an hour or so earlier in the day....The stupid thing is I now know it's right there for me to play with..It's just finding that method/ window of opportunity

Cheers again,

Steve

[greatoutdoors]

Rooj and Steve,

Thanks for the info and I will see what results it brings. I am keeping my fingers crossed!  

[Ben K]

I've been thinking about the focus ten thing, made another post about what the symptoms of this problem are...I honestly think if I can find the solution to this one I'll have bridged the gap, so to speak.
In the last week I've been trying to phase after going to bed (As normal), to sleep. The funny thing is I can get all kinds of swirly colours/ hypnogogia without even attempting to go the usual route. No mental relaxation, no listening to cd's, etc...I'll just lay there and do something along Franks noticing exercise and it just does it all by itself. I'm starting to wonder if I've been barking up the wrong tree all along? If I can find some awnsers/help to the questions other thread, then I'll stick with that as it quite litterally takes 0 (zero) effort.

Go with the all-natural approach for sure. Ive been doing that since I began and ive had great progress. Just lay down, do the noticing exercise for awhile, then when you feel you are at about focus 3 or 4, start a mental rundown. Youll find that its much easier to engage your imagination. Just be careful of the dream scenarios that start popping up.You can either actively disengage them or try to roll along with them, which would put you into PF2 pretty quickly.

Another tip, try practicing during the day or at different times. I switched it up twice and both times i got "farther" than i ever have practicing before I go to sleep.

[David Warner]

Steve,

If you read up on my alarm clock technique it might help you. Its one heck of a method to induce a projection but its been working.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20697

Here's a few other snip lets of my experiences with bgwen, or using the trance state with visualization.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=20435

Btw: I don't mean to preach, but for the last 9 months now, I've been free from alcohol and been jogging/exercising for the last 4months. It has made an incredible difference in my physical and astral life. I highly recommend exercise, eating right, and most of all track everything with your experiences.

Hope this helps!!

Tvos

[Steve 2B]

Ben K,

I'd love to be able to practice during the day <sigh>...Unfortunately the stupid belief construct called work keeps me from doing this.. LoL. What really annoys me is that quite often I find myself in the frame of mind, which I recognize as being conducive to phasing practice...I don't know quite how to explain the sensation, only that I know it'd be a great time to make an attempt. Hmm...perhaps I should take that sabbatical?

Tvos,

Thanks for the links :) I don't drink alcohol, haven't done so for about 20 years. I just made the decision that I couldn't stand the headaches that followed..LoL So there after I was the fav guy to give everyone a lift to the pub, or the xmas parties. As for the exercise I get out, as time permits and do some walking, which at this time of the year is just lovely, autumn is my favorite season ;)

It's interesting you mention the Bwgen program. I've been doing some experiments with it recently. I made a very simple track that starts off at around 16htz (Binural beat) and deepens right down to zero hertz. As the tone descends I make note of which particular frequencies have the most effect on the brain, are conducive to helping the brain relax. There seem to be four or maybe five specific frequencies that my brain likes. I know they certainly won't induce a phase shift, but I'm certain that using them  helps me achieve a particular state of mind. If nothing else it help block out the neighbors clanking their pots and pans, when practicing of an evening..LoL.

Doh!...I was going to ask something, but have forgotten what it is now! <sigh> When I remember I'll tack it on the end here... Hehehe

Cheers,

Steve