New member here, astral projecting. :Dy

[Contenteo]

Yes, it can. It happens all the time in the astral.
This is one of the reasons there are so many pseudo-teachers out there all spouting contradictory theories and stories. Some Trikster met them in the Astral and fed them a line of BS and pretended to be spreading Truth. They lace their load of nonsense with sprinkles of the sort of stuff the Astral Seeker wants to hear and the noobs swallow it whole. They go back to their bodies and write books and voila' -- mass confusion.

Yes, yes, you are correct from an Atmic POV, but by the time that POV becomes relevant, we would be outside the realm of illusion, in essence dead, enjoying the full amenities of an astral afterlife.

So for right now, here on the physical, perception and misperception(illusion, disillusion) are both he same thing because you are dealing with a in series information stream and a singular given interpretation. The physical is a buffer in between our perception and other perceptions that link us to the oneness. Of course deception exists here oon the physical. Whether the information is true or not does not matter, nor does the interpretation, either way, it is how you understand the world surrounding you that molds your beliefs. Your mental models are what you share and what you base your intent from.

[/i]
Mass confusions occurs because these teachers enter livelihood of teaching this stuff. You cannot teach this and make money and be right in our current infrastructure.
- I personally hate most people selling books on this subject. Even Monroe pisses me off when I see him trying to make money off hemisync, but alas, that is the fallacy of taking a stance. You position becomes rigid. It is the conundrum of all positions. You must take one and defend it. Thus, one can never give the whole picture.
- We don't have a holistic picture of what is really going on yet. He have a bunch of really good hypothesizes. We are damn close, but not dead on. Of course confusion if going to happens. But in this time of confusion, simplicity is our best friend.

In this way you can see why in a realm of oneness deception does not exist, and thus because one cannot hide their true intent, emotions instantly manifest themselves when in the lower astral planes. you are what you think.

For reference:
Quote from Atmic site:

Form/Structure:
The Atmic body is a radiation from a central point that is unified with the One-Life that envelopes and surrounds the earth; animating, perceiving through, acting through all living creatures on all levels of existence (Buddhic, Manasic, Causal, Mental, Astral, Etheric, Physical) on the earth.

[/quote]


Remember why we call it phasing in the first place Rudy. Monroe was an electrical engineer and the phenomenon was most akin to that of phase voltage differential. Two voltages on the same circuit. independent, but intertwined. As is our consciousness.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Rudolph]

Yes, yes, you are correct from an Atmic POV, but by the time that POV becomes relevant, we would be outside the realm of illusion, in essence dead, enjoying the full amenities of an astral afterlife.

No. That's not how it works. It appears that you completely misunderstand the relationship between these worlds and realms of Consciousness.

There is no "astral afterlife" in the Eternal sense. There is an Astral transition.

The Astral realm is a material Universe with a Temporal element -- both much finer and more elusive than the physical, yet far more like the physical World than anything remotely resembling a Truly Eternal Atmic Reality and Awareness.

[Xanth]

No. That's not how it works. It appears that you completely misunderstand the relationship between these worlds and realms of Consciousness.

There is no "astral afterlife" in the Eternal sense. There is an Astral transition.

The Astral realm is a material Universe with a Temporal element -- both much finer and more elusive than the physical, yet far more like the physical World than anything remotely resembling a Truly Eternal Atmic Reality and Awareness.

Are you two really complaining that each others opinions are incorrect?

They're wonderful metaphors... both of them.  But in the end, they're both still opinion. 
Neither is known to be correct... or incorrect for that matter.

[Rudolph]

Are you two really complaining that each others opinions are incorrect?

They're wonderful metaphors... both of them.  But in the end, they're both still opinion. 
Neither is known to be correct... or incorrect for that matter.

No.

Someone might incorrectly refer to the tires on a car as wheels. It might be a common error but it does not change the fact that the wheels and the tires are two different things.

It is not a matter of opinion.

[Xanth]

No.

Someone might incorrectly refer to the tires on a car as wheels. It might be a common error but it does not change the fact that the wheels and the tires are two different things.

It is not a matter of opinion.

Let's take a quick look at what you said then...

No. That's not how it works. It appears that you completely misunderstand the relationship between these worlds and realms of Consciousness.

And you *DO* understand those relationships?
So that means that you know "how it works" then?
I'm waiting to hear this awesome, 100% solid, verifiable proof of this that isn't just your opinion?

There is no "astral afterlife" in the Eternal sense. There is an Astral transition.

Again, where's your proof?  I'm not exactly going to just take your word for it that there is "no astral afterlife in the eternal sense".  This is your opinion.

The Astral realm is a material Universe with a Temporal element -- both much finer and more elusive than the physical, yet far more like the physical World than anything remotely resembling a Truly Eternal Atmic Reality and Awareness.

Again, this is pure speculation and simply your opinion. 
That is, unless you have some proof to back this up.

So yes, it's a matter of "opinion"... unless, as I pointed out, you have some ground breaking, physical life altering proof of what you speak of. 
Which you don't, and can't... since it's only your opinion.

[Rudolph]

Let's take a quick look at what you said then...
And you *DO* understand those relationships?
So that means that you know "how it works" then?
I'm waiting to hear this awesome, 100% solid, verifiable proof of this that isn't just your opinion?
Again, where's your proof?  I'm not exactly going to just take your word for it that there is "no astral afterlife in the eternal sense".  This is your opinion.

You are misinterpreting the level of discussion here. I do not need "proof" to correct someone who claims that there are 5 millimeters in a centimeter. Just a dictionary will do. There is a thing known as convention.

If you want to invent a new convention just call it something new like Squidjal Projection and make any claim you want about it.

[Xanth]

Obfuscation...

I expected as much from you.

Thanks Rudy.

[Rudolph]

Obfuscation...

I expected as much from you.

How is concise, relevant, accurate, cogent reply "obfuscation"?

Answer; It isn't.

[Anonymouse]

Seems this thread has gone into a whole different direction. Keep in mind, discussions are a good thing; world is built on people having different points of view. Listen to others, understand them, and with that understand your own self.

Anyways, actually came online to post a little question I had, about something I've tried this last two sessions.

I have done this both at night before sleeping, at in the morning:

Basically, get my body relax, as always. Mind too. After that, imagine my self, well not imagine but feel my self in a different position. I usually lay on my back, so I feel my self as being on the side, inside my body but in a different position, so that my physical nose for example, is located at the back of my conscious head. What I guet with this, is the feeling of being appart from my body, eyes, breath, heart beat... everything thats comes with the physical. I then get out of bed (keeping my concentration on every little aspect of this), and walk either to the bathroom, or outside my room, or anything. For some reason, this seems really natural for me. Anyways, I haven't managed to keep my focus on my conscious for too long, and I have found my thoughts focusing back on my body.

BUT!!, and there is a big but!, right when I focused back on my physical body, I found out that it was away from my body. I mean, I felt as if my body was a little bit below my own self. And I'm guessing that is a good sign .

Also I'm facing this little fears as taking a shower in complete darkness, or looking at my self at a mirror, with no lights on. Don't ask me why, but I had those fears as far as I can remember. Well, I wouldn't call them fears, but something I always avoided  .

Thanks in advance for any response.


edit: For me that "method" seems pretty reasonable, has anyone tried before??, or does it "sound" good?.

Again excuse my neardenthal english !

[Contenteo]

I have found all techniques of projection have the similarity of 'imagining' yourself somewhere else/doing something/etc.

The key is fostering this 'disconnectedness' in whatever way is comfortable to you.

Yes, you will snap back, over and over again. But that is a good thing. You felt yourself getting a little to far and came back. The key here is persistence. When things in your visualizations start to get freaky, i.e. the hackysack you visualized yourself juggling turns into a charcoal apple, just go with it. This is a indicator of success. When you go with it, you will hit a semi lucid dreaming state, and if done right you will realize you have projected without even trying.

So anything that helps you persistently visualize to foster disconnectedness will be a good method of projection.

As per the method you just described, I do the same thing, except it is not local, it will be me walking around in a park or driving a car, or something or other, switch it up to keep it exciting. The last thing you want is to get bored with your method. Because then it won't work.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Anonymouse]

Back again!. Hope everyone is doing fine.

Just wanted to post something here. I haven't got enough time lately to try it in the afternoon or morning, so all my attemps are being at night. I know is a hard time to do it, but well, it is still being practice.

It seems, that many of my attemps (90% of them), I get that falling and spinning sensation. I have discovered, that I get it right when I feel as if I were going to fall (right before I'm about to sleep), but because I'm fully awake, and my body is asleep, I only get the feeling but not the impulsive move. Right after that I start to fall down, spinning around my self.

I often feel my chest going madness, and I hear some stuff. I will have to give it a try some of these days.

Well Ï'm off and in a little hurry!. Bye!

[Contenteo]

Awesome Job. That falling feeling is the beginning of Monroe's F15. It's a tough thing to explain how to latch onto, hence why I think you got it. 

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Anonymouse]

Thank you centeneo.

Also I wanted to tell you something, and ask a couple of questions.

I think I told you before me and a couple of friends are very into this. I've talked to him about what I discovered, about getting out of body and energy working. He beleived me right away, he eaven knew about it before I did.

He never tried any method before though. But last night, I was telling him about some of my late attempts, and he suddenly told me an experience he had that same night (which he wasn't going to remember, unless I talked to him about my Obe's).

He woke up in his bed, he didn't move. Saw "I quote him" a big alien head in his window, and many tinny little heads right below that bigger one. He felt as if the bed was moving but in  a way very strange and sudden, as if those beings wouldn't want him to realize. He then realized that he was in some kind of spaceship, and the beings just had put and hallucination of his room, inside their space ship. So he thought to him self "bonk it, I'm leaving", he left and appeared in the middle of space. With so much detail, he could's see a big orange star, he wanted to get closer to it, he described as if; "I tried to focus with my eyes that big orange light, and what happened there was if I zoom in, and out, loosing focus". He didn't describe it as an orange sun, or planet, more like a Bright orange rhombus, very very bright.

He also described some colors he never saw before. He isn't sure he did get out of body, but I know he did, and he some how knows too.

Two questions; ¿Have you seen a rhombus like that?, or anything similar?. I thought it could be one of those vortex, or a being eaven.

Also; Those aliens in his room, I pretty much guess is that "hallucination" state that you get, right before you're about to leave your body. ¿I'm a right?.

Safe travels. More than save, meaningful travels

[Contenteo]

Ok, loaded, but a goodie.

Colors he never saw before

Yes, there have been multiple accounts of this. When you think about seeing as simply a method of sensing frequency of waves(light in this case) here on the physical, many peculiar sensations on the astral are put into context. For instance, you could see a sound, or something akin to it, or hear a color, or for better explanation, just simply know an entire plot of experience without anyone telling you. But hey, wait, that sounds like a great description of how we actually experience dreams. Right? When we explain them to friends, but we question how we even know details.
That's just how communication works over there. Warm fuzzies and intuitions rather then words.


As for the majority of the experience, realize again, the above. Whatever you experience will be subjective. It's all interpreted waves. There is no way out of it. YOU are the one experiencing it. It's a naturally subjective experience. Whether those were real entities or figments of his imagination, we would really never know. The only way I have found to consistently track these experiences is Monroe's, because it looks a function rather than form, i.e. Level of subjectivity/ aka disconnectedness vs. where you are 

It's confusing because at first; when you project it gets really subjective. i.e. your in your own consciousness(F21). but as you travel deeper, the subjectivity('youness') continues to the great 'oneness', so in essence, subjectivity becomes objective again, but in the equally opposite way. i.e. the experience gets clearer.

Just like a ant has a muddled perception of our existence over here, we have a muddled perception in that equal opposite realm.

So, your friend's experience had that woosh, "blasting off as he called it" which is very characteristic of traveling deeper and more dissconntected/ higher in the Focus levels. I am not surprised he ended up in blackness focusing on a very clear image. The rhombus in this case. Was probably in F22 or F23, my guess is 23.

So realize, you will never able to tell what the hell is going on in the astral, just like an ant couldn't tell you global politics. Just realize there is this phenomenon where you can go deeper if you wish. Judge experiences off that. It's the level of disconnectedness you are measuring towards wherever we go when we die. Nothing less, nothing more.

So no aliens , just figments of an F21 state, hah, maybe they were even sounds, who knows, but that rhombus...now that's something to meddle over.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Anonymouse]

Just passing by to say hi, I'm still on my way for travels. So far I get to that "non weight feeling/ no body feeling" pretty easily now. But I still have the same problem, as soon as I start to feel heavy sensations, I tend to keep them, and I do, but after a while I loose concentration; either the falling/spinning sensation, or the lifting one.

Any advice??.Should I try to approach from dreams maybe??. I haven't got a lucid one yet, never tried it either though.

Greets!

[Lionheart]

Just passing by to say hi, I'm still on my way for travels. So far I get to that "non weight feeling/ no body feeling" pretty easily now. But I still have the same problem, as soon as I start to feel heavy sensations, I tend to keep them, and I do, but after a while I loose concentration; either the falling/spinning sensation, or the lifting one.
Any advice??.Should I try to approach from dreams maybe??. I haven't got a lucid one yet, never tried it either though.
Greets!

Stay the course. It sounds like you are progressing. Go in with no expectations, no stress, just let what happens happen. When I feel the non weight/no body feeling I begin with my visualization. First I test the waters by creating my spinning top, most of the time my spinning top visual will morph into a entire different scene. Example of this could be I see my spinning top just spinning in the 3D darkness before my eyes, it then starts to sway side to side, next thing I know, it's not a top anymore, it's 2 people dancing. Then a background shows up. You see where I am going with this. Your entire focus now is on this scene as the depth of the scene grows, meaning you have no focus whatsoever on your physical body or reality. You have totally shifted over, now you can stop this scene and create your intended destination or you can just stay with this scene to see how far it goes. At first it's better to just stay with the scene. But if you are using this scene as a launching pad, then you can go back to the 3D darkness at will and begin a entirely new scenario.
I use a spinning top, a burning flame, my beach scene, a quiet river scene, walking through tall grass, playing hacky sac, shooting hoops, a number of different things as my launching pad. I never use any physical destination, like my kitchen, bedroom, or vicinity. I don't want to walk around here, I already do that while physical, I want to adventure outwards into new destinations.
You can get really good with these visuals by practicing everyday, Tom Campbell says it's good to practice while walking, while meditating, while watching TV, basically anytime is good. You should be able to just turn off the physical at will anytime anyplace. That's when you are really going to see your capabilities. It takes a lot of will and discipline to do this, but it can definitely be achieved. The more you practice, the easier it gets. Just stay the course!
Good Luck and Safe Travels!  

[Contenteo]

I am glad you are finding it easy to get to the mind awake body asleep state. That is essential. Props on the progress.

I have a tip for you.

I loose concentration

It's not about having concentration. It's about loosing it. The reason metaphysical imagery works is it helps you passively disconnect your senses of the physical. As long as you are still are actively thinking, you are going to have a barrier.

So Lion is right on with the visualization. It's the secret.

The key here is to get to the F10 state (mind awake, body asleep). THEN, start the visualization. Then get lost in your own visualization. Youll know you are on the right track when the images start to take on a life of their own. Get lost in them. As I described in the article I wrote a while back, the secret is to stay persistent with this. They are going to break down. Just keep visualizing and getting as lost as possible. When you are totally immeresed, it is then that the phase will just happen. It just will, you won't know what hit you until you are on the other side. It's like passing out early on a cross country flight. When you come too you are just there.

Best.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[Anonymouse]

Hi to both of you. Thanks for the respond.

I remember I have done some visualizations in the past, and I can remember they were going great. I used to imagine my self in a mountain somewhere, and so on. But it wasn't in my "3D blackness", it was just me, being else where. They did work I think, I remember focusing back into body and finding my self lifting up again. So I will go back to that.

Also, I have seen meteorites in my room, to the point I thought they were going to hit me, also lights, shapes, sounds , in my "3d blackness". Sometimes, the blackness seems to have huge spots of light. Can't explain my self well.

I'm guessing, I was right in the spot before sleeping, and keeping awareness there. Tonight and tomorrow morning I will stick with the visualizations when I get to that point. And I will not have any expectations, but to lay down, and see how it goes, for the fun : D.

Also another question, I cannot help to think, I'm not going to be able to visualize anything whenever I start to fall down, spinning. The sensation is so real, and heavy; Maybe I could visualize something in that enviroment??; For example, If I start to fall down I could imagine my self in some kind of a place, and seeing things passing by my eyes, or something like that. Try to adapt the visualizations to the sensations maybe??.

Safe travels!

[nikolai]

I am pretty sure this isn't really true.

My experience is also in line with Rudolph's comment. Thoughts/Emotions manifesting immediately depends much on the environment in which you 'land'. In some environments I have been in even basic reality checks don't work (eg: checking the clocks over and over) as the environments are too stable. Other environments I went to you can't cross from one side of the room to another without the room changing a dozen times, its very difficult to nagivate such environments.

I also noticed it all depends on 'who' is around you. If you have independent energies surrounding you, sometimes they stabilise the environment and there is less fluctuation. If you have your guide around you, they can sabilise the environment or do the opposite and make it very fluid (dependent on their goal with you).

Astral is such a huge place, there seem to be different rules in different areas and those rules fluctuate hugely dependent on who is around. The area will look exactly the same as another area (eg: someone's room) but the rules applying to it could be quite different.

Thus it all depends where the person 'lands'. Which is why I recommend immediately starting to ask the first 'person' you see out there some questions and see what they reply (see my other posts).

But these are just my deductions from my experiences, I understand that different people have different experiences in astral and thus make different deductions from them.

Anonymouse, entry via the 'direct method' (eg: sitting/lying in a phasing/obe'ing meditation and literally phasing out) is one of the hardest to get to lead to a result and can take many months of very hard work.

There are much easier entries namely 'indirect' (eg: attempt to phase out simply by intent as soon as you wake up, statistics show about 80% of newbies phase out within 3 days of trying this. The key here is to remain motionless when you wake up from a dream and try intent yourself to leave the body within about 40 seconds while the body is still in a semi-sleep state and the mind is not fully in the physical. PM me if you need a source that explains this method) and another easier method is lucid dreaming.

I use LD'ing and indirect method for my entries, but I also meditate a lot during physical days (meditation I do aims to develop astral senses amongst other things). But I first phased with an indirect method and I did LD'ing quite a lot before. The point is that direct method is unnecessarily hard especially if you have little conscious experience of astral.

Enter via the easy methods first, meet your guide (see my other post), talk to him/her she/he will tell you what is what and what you should focus on, then continue with the direct method if you so choose, or try both methods as I do.

Indirect/ld methods are much faster in terms of results than the direct method (I been working on direct method for 4 months now at least, with only maybe a dozen trips from it, but from indirect/ld methods within last month alone I had at least a couple of dozen trips).

: ) you can be tripping in a couple of days, just focus your energy on easier methods and put all your energy into them, they are 'easier' not because I think so, but because statistical studies show it based on hundreds of newbies trying to trip (pm me)

ps: also forget everything you read in terms of what to expect, heart chakra beating, vibrations, colours, 3D space, etc. At beginner level all of these are just distractions. These things happen to some people and not to others, and it all depends which method you use to enter, your energy level and so on.

Focus levels are important if you are working within a particular focus level, eg: if you want to download telepathic information (eg: vipassana meditation) then it is useful to you to get a quick understanding of what focus levels do what (eg: if you slip into the higher level of ecstacy/love you may want to bring yourself down to download some information, by using some distracting thoughts or anything else you know) and so on. If your goal, however is to simply 'enter', then forget everything about focus levels. Then your goal is to basically fall asleep without actually falling asleep, and thats it.

Now to make your life easier all you need to do is remind yourslef to 'relax and be fearless', whatever happens 'let it happen'.

Like Tom Campbell and Rob Monroe say
''My attitude became, if its going to kill me, let it kill me!'' This attitude is also great when you end up in astral and start getting attacked (I'm sure this will happen, I don't know a single person who was never attacked in all their trips, even if only slightly).

You can 'dissolve' the attack in seconds by simply adopting this attitude of 'if you are going to kill me, go ahead, I'l just relax and enjoy it, this is just a dream!' (I had all kinds of attacks from 'gentle' ones where a person would start throwing rocks at me, to medium ones where huge ugly demon faces would scream and shout at me, to horrific ones where a monster would jump on me and start chewing my arms and body with my bones snapping and crackling before my eyes - none of those attacks hurt, and they only lasted a few seconds. Why? Because as soon as an attack started happening I simply told myself ''relax, you can't kill me, this is just a dream'', and there was no fear anymore (and no more attacks, as you learn the lesson after that).

So, its much easier to enter if you use easier methods + no expectations + relaxed and fearless attitude.

[Contenteo]

Great post nikolai

All that is very accurate in my experience. To again, re-clarify the nature of intent, it still is changing to room around whether you are controlling it or not. It's kind of like that classic runaway fire hose. Spraying all over the place until you can capture and control it.

Also, I have seen meteorites in my room, to the point I thought they were going to hit me, also lights, shapes, sounds , in my "3d blackness". Sometimes, the blackness seems to have huge spots of light. Can't explain my self well.

I know exactly what you are talking about Anon. Its essentially, both black and white at the same time. Very difficult to explain (and to bring Pauli and his exclusion principle into this) as no two things can occupy the same space at the same time. I found this to be a commonly passed milestone in the myriad of imagery one sees when inducing F10 and F12.

Cheers,
Contenteo

[nikolai]

this is freaking fascinating, some of the stuff you guys talk about I have never even thought about let alone actually experienced (meteorites in the room!? how cool is that!!!)

[Anonymouse]

All right.  As you mentioned nikolai, I will focus my energy on the passive ways of getting out of body. I think is my time for that. I really wanted to try the "active" way. For some reason it's the way that really got my attention, maybe because it's the one that needs more effort.

I have learned quite a lot from all of those nights, staying there and experiencing all of these. I've also learned, thank to that, to not let my self down if things don't go as I expected. I have more patience in that term now.

So for this next month, I will give the passive way a big try, with all my effort. And see how it goes. I will keep you updated.

Cheers.

[Anonymouse]

this is freaking fascinating, some of the stuff you guys talk about I have never even thought about let alone actually experienced (meteorites in the room!? how cool is that!!!)

I was surprise as well. As I said, I think I was fading into that dream state, but still awake. I get that many nights now, right when I feel to tired to keep trying to "obe", and I  say to my self (okay, let's go to sleep now) I get all of those images/sounds dreamlike.

[nikolai]

For example, If I start to fall down I could imagine my self in some kind of a place, and seeing things passing by my eyes, or something like that. Try to adapt the visualizations to the sensations maybe??.

I once phased within about 10 minutes by simply lying down closing my eyes and keeping my mind on the the very thought 'water' (not visualising anything at all). Soon I started hearing water as if from a distance, I focused on this sound, sound got louder, next thing I know the sound got 'normal (i.e. physically fully loud) and a fluctuation came (i suddenly could see a tap into which water flowed) next moment I know is I feel water on my face and suddenly a beach scene appears and I'm lying on the beach with water on my face (as If I teleported from my bed). I stood up and went exploring (but it felt like a physical separation (like a typical obe separation, quite 'heavy' feeling (I had to force myself to stand up and felt the astral body as if ripping away from the physical (gravity sensation). In my experience 'entry' into astral via a direct method is often like this, while other methods are very gentle entries, you kind of just slip into it.

So dont worry too much about making visualisations very realistic, I understand 'concept' alone (eg: 'think water') can be enough to bring forth the associated astral material and develop the scene around you until you are suddenly in it.

[nikolai]

Anonymouse my philosophy is try everything to see what works best

But remember there is a lot of emotional energy which is actually spent when you are attempting to enter, which makes the entry even harder. This is why some people often try very hard for months and experience nothing at all, then they say 'screw this!' and stop practicing and suddenly start experiencing lucid dreams and obe's. Counterintuitive, but thats because their energy reserves fill up after a break.

Energy is wasted hugely if you feel any kind of 'urgency/rush/desperateness/dissapointment' from your attempts. Just treat it like you couldn't care less, if you feel tired don't practice for a while, take a break. Then your energy levels will stay higher and you will have success faster.