POLL about spirituality with astral projectors

[Astral-Trea]

Hi all,

I have an interesting question I want to pose and hear as many opinions as possible from anyone who has projectd successfully.

My question is, how many of you who have successfully been to the astral, consider yourself athiests? And also, if you were an athiest and changed your mind after projecting I would like to hear from you as well.

I have heard of a few people who claim they have projected but still call themselves an athiest which makes no sense to me... Being that athiest believe in nothing after death, that you just are gone. It seems to me that projecting and interacting with entities and spirits would be proof enough that there IS an afterlife at the least.

I am not an athiest I just am curious about this subject because it seems contradictory.

[deepspace]

I used to be a fundamentalist Christian, but not any more. I've evolved quite a ways beyond that. I still do believe in some kind of "source" which some might call God.

I think that AP helps show you that our consciousness is what manifests the reality that we experience, that consciousness is outside of time and space and is also connected. From there the concept of some kind of "source" and consciousness continuing on seems to make sense as well, at least for me.

To me, consciousness must be eternal. It is something that just IS and must exist outside of space and time. I've often asked myself: how can a consciousness being simply become nothing? Some believe it can, because they believe that consciousness requires a human brain. I think consciousness exists outside of our physical reality. That's something you can also experience through AP.

[Astral-Trea]

I used to be a fundamentalist Christian, but not any more. I've evolved quite a ways beyond that. I still do believe in some kind of "source" which some might call God.

I think that AP helps show you that our consciousness is what manifests the reality that we experience, that consciousness is outside of time and space and is also connected. From there the concept of some kind of "source" and consciousness continuing on seems to make sense as well, at least for me.

To me, consciousness must be eternal. It is something that just IS and must exist outside of space and time. I've often asked myself: how can a consciousness being simply become nothing? Some believe it can, because they believe that consciousness requires a human brain. I think consciousness exists outside of our physical reality. That's something you can also experience through AP.

I feel exactly the same and I do believe in "source" which I call God.

[Volgerle]

I had a very long talk with my wife recently and she finally convinced me to just stop worrying about what to call myself because that struggle is probably holding me back from further envolving spiritually.

Your wife is a very wise person.

Forget about labels. They hinder progress. Don't say:

I am X.
I am Y.
I am Z.

You are not that. It's an illusion you created in this life.

Drop XYZ and say "I am." instead. No X, Y or Z. This is closest to the truth.

You are not Christian, you are not Atheist. This is all personal history accounts which the ego depends on and tries to limit itself by becoming segregated from other people, groups, histories, etc. It needs this to feed on it. To reach self-gratification by being "special", ironically it often does so by 'belonging' to a group with certain set beliefs and world views.

In truth, it's more simple: You are.

In your first post, you even only offered two labels to choose from  (Christian vs. Atheist) which is even more limited. If you're no Christian (I am not) you are automatically Atheist? I don't think so.

I am in no religion but I don't consider myself Atheist, most of all since I do not want to put any labels on me, but also since I 'believe' (if you will) in the mystical "Source" view of God or All-That-Is.

Unfortunately, this is how many discussions in our society still are going on, like this:

"You are not this (what I am), so you are that, because there is only Y or Z. So I can (as member of Y) argue against you (as member of Z), or even fight you, at least with arguments..." .... and so on...

We should get beyond these kinds of discussions and discourses if we want to evolve, or simply 'grow up'.

[Szaxx]

Perhaps you really should think with a different mindset. It will help you develop.
Your existance thats known is in one tiny corner of the wider reality. Therefore anything physically related is a handicap of sorts. Search for the truth, the bigger picture, by experiences in the wider reality. Eventually you'll start to see how vast it all is. Labels help explain things but these too are limited. Some things you'll experience defy words, they don't exist.
Be open and explore.

[Astral-Trea]

Your wife is a very wise person.

Forget about labels. They hinder progress. Don't say:

I am X.
I am Y.
I am Z.

You are not that. It's an illusion you created in this life.

Drop XYZ and say "I am." instead. No X, Y or Z. This is closest to the truth.

You are not Christian, you are not Atheist. This is all personal history accounts which the ego depends on and tries to limit itself by becoming segregated from other people, groups, histories, etc. It needs this to feed on it. To reach self-gratification by being "special", ironically it often does so by 'belonging' to a group with certain set beliefs and world views.

In truth, it's more simple: You are.

In your first post, you even only offered two labels to choose from  (Christian vs. Atheist) which is even more limited. If you're no Christian (I am not) you are automatically Atheist? I don't think so.

I am in no religion but I don't consider myself Atheist, most of all since I do not want to put any labels on me, but also since I 'believe' (if you will) in the mystical "Source" view of God or All-That-Is.

Unfortunately, this is how many discussions in our society still are going on, like this:

"You are not this (what I am), so you are that, because there is only Y or Z. So I can (as member of Y) argue against you (as member of Z), or even fight you, at least with arguments..." .... and so on...

We should get beyond these kinds of discussions and discourses if we want to evolve, or simply 'grow up'.

Ok, while I agree with your comments about labels... This POLL isnt about me. I probably shouldnt have posted my own thoughts on it since it is getting people off topic. So I have altered my response above in the hopes to keep people on topic. i also never gave people a "choice" between christian or athiest. I made a comment about Christians which has also been removed as to not confuse people as to what the question here is.

**The question is, are their any people here who have successfully projected to the astral, that consider themselves athiests. If so, why?**

While you may not choose to label your beliefs, labels exist for most beliefs and religions out there.... For instance... Some people may just call themselves spiritual or agnostic meaning they believe in an afterlife and a source or god, but not other aspects of religion like hell and the devil etc.

Athiests believe in no afterlife, no god, no soul, nothing at all. Which is why I can't understand how someone who has asral projected could possibly believe in this way. My guess is the people in this category are a minority and there probably are not alot of them here.

[CFTraveler]

Even though I've been projecting since I was a child, I can't say whether my decisions about worldview were influenced by my experiences-although I always had the feeling that I was a small part of a larger conscious system (or feelings to that effect)- it was a deep down knowing instead of a thought process.  As I got older, my thought system started to look for organized religious/spiritual systems to fit my 'feelings' about 'reality', and when I found one, I embraced it, which is panentheism- (not pantheism).

[Lionheart]

Even though I've been projecting since I was a child, I can't say whether my decisions about worldview were influenced by my experiences-although I always had the feeling that I was a small part of a larger conscious system (or feelings to that effect)- it was a deep down knowing instead of a thought process.  As I got older, my thought system started to look for organized religious/spiritual systems to fit my 'feelings' about 'reality', and when I found one, I embraced it, which is panentheism- (not pantheism).

Wow, I didn't really know that my belief had such a name. Thank You CFT for that!  

I used to search for answers and labels as well. Is there a God, isn't there a God? What is God? When I was younger I was in Church choirs, went to Church Camps, was at all the Church functions, until one day I went to our Minister's residence for a brief Church party. He had a huge home and 2 New Yorkers and a new Corvette for his daughter.

I looked around at all the other parishioner's cars that were there and saw that they were old and beat up. But, every Sunday I saw these people giving away basically their last money to he Church. That was my first eye opener as a child. Then later on I started to read and listen to what was being said in Church, once I was old enough to go to the adult portion, since I had always been in the Child portion of the Church (Sunday School). I heard that God struck down the bad, but blessed the good. I knew that many of the people there had their own problems, some were Alcoholics, some were abusers of children and their spouses, etc. But they would go every week and think that their actions for the last 6 days would magically be forgiven. All of this was very confusing for a young child to see. I didn't feel I wanted any part of this charade anymore. So I quit going to Church.

I still believed what was in my heart and didn't think I needed to be in any certain place to pray or show my respect to God. This opened me to the idea that God was everywhere in everything. That God wasn't a singular, but was part of everything around.

My AP explorations later on in life reinforced this belief. It's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I believe God as the pure Source of all, existence, Consciousness itself.

I don't believe that God "directly" created man, but we will leave that for another discussion someday!  

[CFTraveler]

I'm a big fan of the ACIM precept "God creates by extension".  It creates a lot of cognitive dissonance with many people, but I like it.

[Astral-Trea]

Wow, I didn't really know that my belief had such a name. Thank You CFT for that!  

I used to search for answers and labels as well. Is there a God, isn't there a God? What is God? When I was younger I was in Church choirs, went to Church Camps, was at all the Church functions, until one day I went to our Minister's residence for a brief Church party. He had a huge home and 2 New Yorkers and a new Corvette for his daughter.

I looked around at all the other parishioner's cars that were there and saw that they were old and beat up. But, every Sunday I saw these people giving away basically their last money to he Church. That was my first eye opener as a child. Then later on I started to read and listen to what was being said in Church, once I was old enough to go to the adult portion, since I had always been in the Child portion of the Church (Sunday School). I heard that God struck down the bad, but blessed the good. I knew that many of the people there had their own problems, some were Alcoholics, some were abusers of children and their spouses, etc. But they would go every week and think that their actions for the last 6 days would magically be forgiven. All of this was very confusing for a young child to see. I didn't feel I wanted any part of this charade anymore. So I quit going to Church.

I still believed what was in my heart and didn't think I needed to be in any certain place to pray or show my respect to God. This opened me to the idea that God was everywhere in everything. That God wasn't a singular, but was part of everything around.

My AP explorations later on in life reinforced this belief. It's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I believe God as the pure Source of all, existence, Consciousness itself.

I don't believe that God "directly" created man, but we will leave that for another discussion someday!  

Very true Lionheart! I have realised this a while back as well... It really bugged me seeing how first of all, what use would God have for money? Then why would it have to be a certain percentage of your income? All nonsense then if you pass the plate without giving cause maybe you don't have anything to spare, you get the stares and glares. lol It is all such a scam like so much other stuff... It has been currupted by man.

I am going to assume that arent any athiest APers here since I havent heard from any. I didn't really expect to but was hoping to cause I think it would start a very big and deep conversation. One of the couple of people I heard talking like that was a guy on youtube from England who talks about AP but also alot of other things. I am going to assume that he either hasnt figured himself and life out yet or he never has really projected cause alot of what he says doesnt make much sense to me.

[deepspace]

I am going to assume that arent any athiest APers here since I havent heard from any. I didn't really expect to but was hoping to cause I think it would start a very big and deep conversation.

I would imagine it's hard to travel through a realm you don't believe in. 

[Lionheart]

I would imagine it's hard to travel through a realm you don't believe in. 

It would tend to cause a lot of "cognitive dissonance", that's for sure! 

[mimihigurashi]

Being an atheist does not mean you believe in nothing after death.. No offense, but you should learn what an atheist is before you use the term. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god. That is all. Also, just because one doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he/she rejects each and every aspect of spirituality. There are people called spiritual atheists who do not believe in a creator yet are well aware of the spirit world.

[deepspace]

Being an atheist does not mean you believe in nothing after death.. No offense, but you should learn what an atheist is before you use the term. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god. That is all. Also, just because one doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he/she rejects each and every aspect of spirituality. There are people called spiritual atheists who do not believe in a creator yet are well aware of the spirit world.

I think most of us know the definition of an atheist. And yes atheism does not mean you can't believe in spirituality, but as a practical matter, most people who deny the existence of any kind of higher spiritual power, or source (not just the conventional religious definition of "God") are also people who don't believe in anything other than the physical world and scientifically provable phenomena. That's usually their basis for their lack of belief in such things. Personally, I know quite a few atheists and none of them believe in spirituality. But apparently it's more common in Eastern culture.

[Volgerle]

Being an atheist does not mean you believe in nothing after death.. No offense, but you should learn what an atheist is before you use the term. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god. That is all. Also, just because one doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he/she rejects each and every aspect of spirituality. There are people called spiritual atheists who do not believe in a creator yet are well aware of the spirit world.

Yes, but the problem is: they are a tiny tiny tiny minority. Not even noticable in the vast pool of all those self-professed 'atheists' about whom one can certainly state that the words 'materialist' or 'reductionist' (partially even the term 'humanist') are almost perfect synonyms. (Do the test yourself and visit any 'atheist forum'   )

[mimihigurashi]

Yes, but the problem is: they are a tiny tiny tiny minority. Not even noticable in the vast pool of all those self-professed 'atheists' about whom one can certainly state that the words 'materialist' or 'reductionist' (partially even the term 'humanist') are almost perfect synonyms. (Do the test yourself and visit any 'atheist forum'   )

They might be a tiny minority, but that doesn't mean there is no difference between an atheist and a spiritual atheist, there is quite a big one. I wouldn't visit an atheist forum, nowadays, at least from my experience, most atheists are actually anti-theists obsessed with science and bent on ridiculing each and every thing that is remotely spiritual in some way. They call religious folks closed minded when they themselves seem to be incredibly closed minded to anything that cannot be "proven" by science.

[MonaLon]

Being an atheist does not mean you believe in nothing after death.. No offense, but you should learn what an atheist is before you use the term. An atheist is someone who does not believe in any god. That is all. Also, just because one doesn't believe in God, it doesn't mean he/she rejects each and every aspect of spirituality. There are people called spiritual atheists who do not believe in a creator yet are well aware of the spirit world.

I agree with this. I am an atheist, but that doesn't mean that I don't believe there's nothing left after death. It's an unusual combination, I know 

[Astral-Trea]

They might be a tiny minority, but that doesn't mean there is no difference between an atheist and a spiritual atheist, there is quite a big one. I wouldn't visit an atheist forum, nowadays, at least from my experience, most atheists are actually anti-theists obsessed with science and bent on ridiculing each and every thing that is remotely spiritual in some way. They call religious folks closed minded when they themselves seem to be incredibly closed minded to anything that cannot be "proven" by science.

Well then you understand what I am saying because I have known quite a few athiests.. Ppl who call themselves athiests, and they have all told me that thy believe when you die, you are just dead and there is nothing beyond this physical life. They all say they believe life, consciencenessl, and the entire universe is some sort of coincidence that happened by random. I have hever heard of a spiritual athiest but all the athiests I have known are not spiritual... After all, if there is no god or source, or any higher form of conscienceness than us, how could their be an afterlife? (In their eyes)

Maybe the formal definition of athiest only refers to not believing in gods but if that is so, then what is the proper term for all these people who believe in nothing whatsoever other than a one time physical life? Cause they have all certainly adopted the term.

[Volgerle]

Maybe the formal definition of athiest only refers to not believing in gods but if that is so, then what is the proper term for all these people who believe in nothing whatsoever other than a one time physical life?

materialist (physicalist, humanist, reductionist, close-minded skeptic, esp. the latter surely not being a self-titled one  )

[deepspace]

materialist (physicalist, humanist, reductionist, close-minded skeptic, esp. the latter surely not being a self-titled one  )

It's kind of funny, because at the quantum level, the whole concept of materialism has never been proven to even exist at all. Every new experiment proves to even more certainty that there is no such thing, at least in Quantum Mechanics.

So I guess we must have two different sets of laws. 

[Astral-Trea]

materialist (physicalist, humanist, reductionist, close-minded skeptic, esp. the latter surely not being a self-titled one  )

I find it very funny (but also sad) how many of these people who call themselves athiests have no clue what they really are. Yet they are so determined to lash out at and try to convert everyone around them to their same belief (or lack of belief) system. This is why I think that this belief has become a religion in itself because they are making it a mission to convert other people, there are churches devoted to it, and they are spending lots of money on advertising (I have seen alot of billboards.)

[deepspace]

I find it very funny (but also sad) how many of these people who call themselves athiests have no clue what they really are. Yet they are so determined to lash out at and try to convert everyone around them to their same belief (or lack of belief) system. This is why I think that this belief has become a religion in itself because they are making it a mission to convert other people, there are churches devoted to it, and they are spending lots of money on advertising (I have seen alot of billboards.)

It's just another rigid belief system, just like the ones they claim to be opposed to. I have met a lot of fundamentalist religious people, but even the worst of them are loving when compared to some of the atheists. To some of them, belief in anything spiritual means you are weak, stupid, ignorant and dismissive of the almighty SCIENCE. And they often have really arrogant attitudes and no trouble telling you what they think of your inferior status as a believer in things unproven by science. The fundamentalist religious people have nothing on them.

[Astral-Trea]

It's just another rigid belief system, just like the ones they claim to be opposed to. I have met a lot of fundamentalist religious people, but even the worst of them are loving when compared to some of the atheists. To some of them, belief in anything spiritual means you are weak, stupid, ignorant and dismissive of the almighty SCIENCE. And they often have really arrogant attitudes and no trouble telling you what they think of your inferior status as a believer in things unproven by science. The fundamentalist religious people have nothing on them.

I agree 100% as that has been my experience with them as well.

[deepspace]

I've concluded that you eventually reach a point where there is no value in any "belief system", even our physical reality which to me is no more than a collective belief system anyway.

All belief systems are incomplete at best, and will limit your growth at some point since they are inherently restrictive. Many are based on fear too, which makes them even more of hindrance to growth.

My spiritual life has grown significantly since I've unloaded this kind of excess baggage.

[Astral-Trea]

I've concluded that you eventually reach a point where there is no value in any "belief system", even our physical reality which to me is no more than a collective belief system anyway.

All belief systems are incomplete at best, and will limit your growth at some point since they are inherently restrictive. Many are based on fear too, which makes them even more of hindrance to growth.

My spiritual life has grown significantly since I've unloaded this kind of excess baggage.

I again agree, however I would like to point out that so many of us refer to religions and such as belief systems.. Which they are. But, is not what we here on this forum believe.. Also a belief system? I ask because I believe certain things about life, reality, the afterlife, souls, etc.. That are a culmination of various experiences and beliefs... But is that different than a belief "system" because it is not so mainstream or based in fear? I realize alot of relgious belief systems are based on fear but maybe not all that would be called that are. What do you think?