Witness - Verified Personal Proof of Vibrational OBE Energy.

[lostsole]

Hi All,

I wanted to sign up here and share my wife and I's story. I imagine many of us would like more solid proof of some of the experiences we have, that they are tangible and real or not just in our heads. I don't have that sort of story for being fully OBE but I do have it for the energetic pre-vibrations build up.

Around the turn of the century, my wife and particularly me, had been looking into all sorts of paranormal stuff including OBEs. I had started my waking up process after 9-11. I personally had been trying nearly every night to go OBE using Hemi-Sync.

As an aside to my main story, I did have one night I woke up in the early am while using Hemi-Sync Immersion, still playing in my headphones as I awoke.

At that point, I had many of the classic signs of OBE, drums, chimes, pops, then these incredible, powerful, energy "hoops" seemed to be going up and down my body at super fast speeds. I knew what was happening and tried to go with it as my heart seemed like it was going to explode out of my chest. But, I was too excited and lost it. Boy was I disappointed.

I digress...

So, my wife seems to be more of a reluctant natural for OBEs. She's scared of them and does not want it to happen. In her distant past, she had one in her family room as a child and floated above her body and her family in the living room.

Anyway, back in our exploring the supernatural days, one night I came to bed late. Our master bedroom was dark and my wife was moaning aloud strangely. I'm like, what the hell? I thought perhaps she was having a nightmare or something.

I didn't say anything or try to wake her. I just popped into bed wondering what she was going through. As I sat on the bed, to my great surprise, I could feel it vibrating, the entire thing. It was like the bed was attached to a giant men's electric shaver, that was sort of the frequency I can compare it to.

My wife continued to moan but not say any words. I was totally creeped out at this point, but nevertheless, I laid down on the bed with my head on the pillow. Well, my soft fluffy pillow was ALSO vibrating at this high frequency! I could feel it right into the bones of my cheek. You tell me, how does a pillow vibrate? Lol.

My wife moaned eerily for a while longer and then started to come out of it. Turns out, she'd just had the 2nd OBE ever in her life. She said she was in a state of complete, frozen, sleep paralysis. She could not move at all and was terrified. She had heard me come in and in her mind she was crying out to me to help her. I told her, what she was saying only came out as weird moaning.

She told me she'd rolled out of her body and was looking around the bedroom. There was stuff in the room that was not really there in real life. And, she saw some sort of scary pig like creature scurry across the ceiling while she was out.

So, that's the story. My wife had her second ever OBE in her thirty plus years of life at the time and I was a direct witness to the vibrations of her energy moving the entire bed in impossible ways. This verified to us, that the "super natural" energy of the OBE is powerful and real. There is nothing else scientifically it could have been without any attached vibrating mechanism.

At the time I was trying to prove OBE's were real to myself and my wife had placed unknown number sequences up high in the house for me to verify if I ever went OBE. Never did quite make it, but at least we had that mutual experience. I thought some of you might appreciate the story.

I have some other interesting stories. I may share them at some point.



 

[Lumaza]

I have some other interesting stories. I may share them at some point.

Welcome to the Astral Pulse! 

 We are all ears! When you are ready, share away! 

[lostsole]

Thanks Lumaza for your comment!

Here's my other stories, which are fairly short.

Another brief story on the part of my reluctant, supernatural oriented wife, was a few years before the vibrating bed incident, she had another state of sleep paralysis while we were both in bed. (She woke me up to tell me this after the fact.) In the open doorway of the bedroom, she saw what is known now days as the Hat man. I'm sure most of you have heard of the phenomenon, but this was back in the 90's and we'd never heard of it. Anyway, the man was in silhouette, clear as could be in the doorway, with the hat, and a cloak. She said she just stared at him for a while and then he vanished. Terrified her of course. She didn't see the red eyes some claim to see. I imagine she might have been a bit out of body, or at least watching him with her astral eyes, since she was sleep paralyzed. But, she never made the claim to being fully OBE like in the earlier story.

Then in that same home, right around the same time as the Hat man, we both woke up to a flute playing a short diddy in the hallway a couple of times. We never knew quite what to make of that. No flute players in our home and no radios or TV were on.

My only other personally interesting story (save my drug years in the 80's which gave me some rather unpleasant experiences) was the only lucid dream I've had to the best of my knowledge. I woke up in a dream and had read about LD, so I wanted to take control of it. There were many people walking around in what seemed like a fairground carnival sort of setting. I immediately tried to get people to do things that normal people would not want to do for testing purposes.

The reactions were what intrigued me. Some ignored me like I was a nut. Some did what I asked, and others said no sternly and seemed angry I would ask. I also tried to control the dream's general environment but I don't recall what happened.

I think my take away point that always stuck with me, was how individualized everyone was, much like walking down a real street on Earth and asking people to do stuff they would not normally do. I thought to myself, I have to be in the astral plane, because there's no way my brain was coming up with all of these unique and highly independent characters.

On my earlier story about the OBE in the bed, I wanted to add in, I imagine those vibrating beds they have in cheap motels might could feel similar, if it had a high enough frequency to what I felt of my wife's vibrations. So, there may be ways to induce that sort of energy across a bed. However, we did not have any type of vibrating mechanism, and I still don't think a fluffy pillow should be able to vibrate like that, so the testimony still stands. : )

[Lumaza]

Thanks Lumaza for your comment!

Here's my other stories, which are fairly short.

Another brief story on the part of my reluctant, supernatural oriented wife, was a few years before the vibrating bed incident, she had another state of sleep paralysis while we were both in bed. (She woke me up to tell me this after the fact.) In the open doorway of the bedroom, she saw what is known now days as the Hat man. I'm sure most of you have heard of the phenomenon, but this was back in the 90's and we'd never heard of it. Anyway, the man was in silhouette, clear as could be in the doorway, with the hat, and a cloak. She said she just stared at him for a while and then he vanished. Terrified her of course. She didn't see the red eyes some claim to see. I imagine she might have been a bit out of body, or at least watching him with her astral eyes, since she was sleep paralyzed. But, she never made the claim to being fully OBE like in the earlier story.

Then in that same home, right around the same time as the Hat man, we both woke up to a flute playing a short diddy in the hallway a couple of times. We never knew quite what to make of that. No flute players in our home and no radios or TV were on.

Your welcome! 

 The Hatman. I hear he likes "chocolate chip cookies". At least that is what I say to people that have experienced him. Once again, changing your mindset changes your reality. I see him and the cloaked Entity as not only your first "fear test", but also as a welcoming of sorts.

[lostsole]

Chocolate chip cookies! Well, then he and I have something in common. : )

I read a good bit about the Hat man a couple of years back, and both my wife and I were very surprised that so many years later he was such a common experience. I actually read an experience where he was kind to someone. I don't recall what he did that was nice, but the person who was terrified at first, soon realized he was there for support. So, is he benevolent or malevolent? Even malevolent beings could like chocolate chip cookies! Lol.

The sad part is, seems like over the last decade our experiences have dwindled to nothing. I don't have any of the cool stuff I used to get in meditations, rocking, or feeling like a snake is trying to burst out of my third eye area, no hypnagogic type imagery, on and on. Now days, I just get numb hands. My wife's had nothing to report either. Maybe it's just a quality or lack thereof, of getting old. : ( Would love to use Hemi-Sync some more, but it makes my tinnitus extremely bad. So, I just read about others experiences now days. 

[Lumaza]

Chocolate chip cookies! Well, then he and I have something in common. : )

I read a good bit about the Hat man a couple of years back, and both my wife and I were very surprised that so many years later he was such a common experience. I actually read an experience where he was kind to someone. I don't recall what he did that was nice, but the person who was terrified at first, soon realized he was there for support. So, is he benevolent or malevolent? Even malevolent beings could like chocolate chip cookies! Lol.

One man's villain can be another man's hero. It's all in the context and perspective!

The sad part is, seems like over the last decade our experiences have dwindled to nothing. I don't have any of the cool stuff I used to get in meditations, rocking, or feeling like a snake is trying to burst out of my third eye area, no hypnagogic type imagery, on and on. Now days, I just get numb hands. My wife's had nothing to report either. Maybe it's just a quality or lack thereof, of getting old. : ( Would love to use Hemi-Sync some more, but it makes my tinnitus extremely bad. So, I just read about others experiences now days.

Something led you here. Perhaps we can change that! 

[Lumaza]

Chocolate chip cookies! Well, then he and I have something in common. : )

I brought up the chocolate cookie thing because not only am I a connoisseur of chocolate chip cookies, but years ago I helped a girl in our mall get over repeated nightmares that she had. I will explain that.

 My wife and I had a Kiosk in our local Mall. We were selling Himalayan Salt Lamps and Dragon Sculptures that she created. One day I was talking with a husband and wife and somehow the topic changed to LDs and nightmares. They immediately both looked at each other than they told me how their 14-year-old daughter was having nightmares every night. Many times they would be the same. She was always being chased. I told the parents that I think I could help her with that.

 A few days later the daughter came to see me. She told me that some large Ogre like beings were always chasing her and that she was terrified. I thought on it for a moment then I said that she was in another dimension/World where everyone there was Ogres, and that she was the one that was different. I said to turn around and give the Ogre a chocolate chip cookie. A few days later she ran up to me and gave me a hug and whispered in my ear that she had found a new friend.

 Ever since that day I have used that to help people that found themselves in Sleep Paralysis and confronted with either the cloaked Entity or the Hat Man. Like I said above "thought = action" in the NPRs. You just need to learn how to control those thoughts, especially the initial ones you have.

[Xanth]

Chocolate chip cookies! Well, then he and I have something in common. : )

I read a good bit about the Hat man a couple of years back, and both my wife and I were very surprised that so many years later he was such a common experience. I actually read an experience where he was kind to someone. I don't recall what he did that was nice, but the person who was terrified at first, soon realized he was there for support. So, is he benevolent or malevolent? Even malevolent beings could like chocolate chip cookies! Lol.

Keep in mind that "The Hatman" is a thought-form, not an actual separate being. 

As Lumaza mentioned, he was most likely a fear test for you.  Just remember that you're as safe as you have ever been throughout your life while you were sleeping.  Nothing will harm you.  Always face things with love and curiosity. 

[lostsole]

Thanks Lumaza for sharing the cookie story. Glad it helped the girl, and I agree, turn it around, negative to positive. : )

Also, thank you to Xanth for your thoughts on fears, love and curiosity.

When Lumaza said this, "LDs and nightmares" I at first thought you were going to talk about Mormons and nightmares. Lol. I live in Mormon country.

Maybe I can stir up the old desire to try again. I'll keep reading here. : )

[Lumaza]

Maybe I can stir up the old desire to try again. I'll keep reading here. : )

Change that to "maybe I can stir up the old desire and do it again" and you will find more success with it.

 I know I harp on the "do" over "try" comments, but it is the truth. Change your words to "do" and you will see it is already "done"!

[Xanth]

Change that to "maybe I can stir up the old desire and do it again" and you will find more success with it.

 I know I harp on the "do" over "try" comments, but it is the truth. Change your words to "do" and you will see it is already "done"!

It's not exactly wrong. 

[lostsole]

Lol, yeah, good ol'e Yoda. I know better than to use the word try. Consider it a slip of the fingers on the keyboard.

[Lumaza]

Lol, yeah, good ol'e Yoda. I know better than to use the word try. Consider it a slip of the fingers on the keyboard.

I know that Yoda/Star Wars made that saying famous. I learned it from studying Hypnosis. Phasing utilizes a form of self=Hypnosis, aka "mental conditioning". Hypnotist will use the word "try" when they know there will be failure. Example: Try to lift your arm. The person can't. Lift your arm, success.

 The same is with nighttime affirmations. "I will be Lucid Dreams" will change to, "I am Lucid in my Dreams". That positive reassurance shows it is already done or happening.  Small changes and being conscious of the words/terms we use make a big difference between success and failure with a number of things in our lives.

[lostsole]

Yes, I agree with all of that. And, again, normally I know better. I do not know the phasing term, but saw it elsewhere on the forum. I'll try to read more about the concept.

[Lumaza]

Yes, I agree with all of that. And, again, normally I know better. I do not know the phasing term, but saw it elsewhere on the forum. I'll try to read more about the concept.

I have to apologize to you. Even though I quoted your words, my comments were not directed only to you. If you have questions or concerns on a Forum, especially of this nature, chances are that other people have the same questions and concerns too.

 Here is a great place to start with that:
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-the-astral-faq!/what-is-phasing-and-how-can-i-do-it/

[EscapeVelocity]

Welcome to the Pulse, lostsole!

Those are some great experiences that you have shared, thank you! I think you have already found some great insights and understanding within many of them, on your own; and that is the great challenge! Like you may have already realized from the responses of Xanth and Lumaza, there are members here on the Pulse who have had very similar experiences to those you describe...so there is good advice available to you and your wife.

We don't pretend for even a minute, that we completely understand all this; but with common purpose and shared advice, we are slowly figuring things out...so, we welcome you even more so.

I have a few comments, but since I haven't figured out quoting (maybe with the wonderful new format, I can come to understand,lol), you will have to endure my primitive methods...

#1 The learning process you and your wife are going through is pretty normal- We get some NP (Non-Physical/Psychical) experiences as children, teens and even in early adulthood...but then our 20's, 30's and 40's show up and our attention is fully-riveted to Life here on the Physical Earth, which is where it arguably should be...
For some of us, we continue to get these little, peripheral NP experiences that somehow keep our attention and curiosity throughout those years and eventually, we reach a point in our lives where we decide to begin the exploration once again. So, you and your wife sound like you are moving towards that point of curiosity...so here you are!

#2 Sleep Paralysis and Vibrations...They are important NP signals that occur for many of us, but not necessarily all of us. And there are differing combinations. Vibations are really cool and eye-opening and we think, obviously, have to do with a frequency adjustment. SP is another aspect altogether, and can be a simple signpost along the way, or it can present the environment of a problem that has to be dealt with...namely Fear. It may be a simple NP survival mechanism, like the Fight or Flight Response or it may serve the purpose of providing an environment for dealing with a deeper issue such as Fear. And that often manifests as The Hat Man, the Night Hag, the Witch Riding Your Back...any number of wonderful terrors going back through history. As much as I distrust the political distortion of the site, this is a really good go to compilation I found years ago-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_hag

So, you can see how common and worldwide the phenomenon is. The key to dealing with SP is staying calm and not letting the excitement or Fear overtake you...it's not easy and I have failed more than a few times, lol.

I will post this and think a bit more...you raise some very good questions.

PS- Oh yeah, the snake climbing out of your Third Eye is a great sign of that chakra activity. Your heart feeling like it is going to explode out of your chest is the clear sign your heart chakra is fully activated...just stay calm and work to quiet them down a little bit. Maybe another member with some better chakra knowledge could comment and help us both on this subject, because I deal with it, as well.

EV

[lostsole]

I have to apologize to you. Even though I quoted your words, my comments were not directed only to you. If you have questions or concerns on a Forum, especially of this nature, chances are that other people have the same questions and concerns too.

 Here is a great place to start with that:
https://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome-to-the-astral-faq!/what-is-phasing-and-how-can-i-do-it/

Absolutely no need to apologize. I get it. I come from a family of teachers and know the practicality of reaching all you can. Thank you for the link, I will start there!

[lostsole]

Thank you Escape Velocity for all of your great comments and support! Your handle is also on target for the site!

Back before much of these ideas were as common place as they are today, around the turn of the century, I got into reading NDEs. I've read thousands of them. The study really motivated me over the years to achieve an OBE. I suppose I was a bit jealous of the NDE experiences, but didn't particularly want to get in a car accident or drown. Lol.

Anyway, the NDE study lead to researching about every paranormal concept out there, like others here I'm sure. My brain is overflowing with information I've read, watched or heard. However, what I don't have, is enough of my own direct experiences, such as, OBE, channeling, ghosts, or whatever. I would love to get more direct observational experiences, in the name of science! Lol.

I had such great experiences a few times with Hemi-Sync, but damn this tinnitus. Binaural sound for whatever reason makes it screaming loud, so I just have to stop with the binaural. Nevertheless, I'm going to persist and get back into this pursuit without it. I need to will have the self confidence I can do it without tools.

On the SP, I have never had it like my wife seems to. Maybe it's her fear, but the more "paralyzed" I feel, the more excited I feel I'm nearing the goal.

I had heard of the Night Hag in brief. That is one I'll have to read up on to learn more. Never heard of the witch riding your back. That's new to me.

Thanks for the points about Chakras. The sensation in the third eye area back in the day, was literally like something was crawling under my skin right there, and at times it was not subtle. But, I didn't fear it, I went with it. As I said above though, I never seem to get that sensation anymore. Maybe the snake got out? Lol.

Anyway, yes, I understand there is a fine balance between excitement and intellect, and shutting down all analysis of that pre-stage of OBE. I will find my middle ground.

As an FYI, folks I've studied on this include Robert Monroe of course. Tom Campbell, William Buhlman, Bob Peterson, and read countless personal experiences. Time to have my own! I'm also trying out listening to Jurgen Ziewe.


Question. What's the general consensus on this forum for the idea of entities harvesting loosh/reincarnation trap, or "The Matrix" sort of concepts? Have any folks here witnessed anything to do with any of that?

[EscapeVelocity]

Much more to say, good comments in general. No accidents or drowning required, lol!

I have the tinnitus issue, as well. Some say it is incoming data stream...idk, bothersome. You might try focusing on it for a few sessions...it hasn't worked for me!

Loosh...funny thing, no one has ever mentioned it in five weeks at TMI. I think it was one of several 'off-target' concepts Robert had...he was good, but not perfect. The Matrix thing...it may work at a smaller, subtle level, I just don't know...there are all kinds of parasitic systems operating around us, including us...so, yeah, I do get caught up in the hierarchical, farming principal...

If we are Consciousness, floating around the Multiverse, choosing at various times to inhabit local planetary populations...who is to argue against other Life systems choosing to harvest the same biological entities we happen to be inhabiting?

Who has rights here? Any contracts been drawn up? Frightening...damn...lol.

[lostsole]

Much more to say, good comments in general. No accidents or drowning required, lol!

I have the tinnitus issue as well. Some say it is incoming data stream...idk, bothersome. You might try focusing on it for a few sessions...it hasn't worked for me!

Loosh...funny thing, no one has ever mentioned it in five weeks at TMI. I think it was one of several 'off-target' concepts Robert had...he was good, but not perfect. The Matrix thing...it may work at a smaller, subtle level, I just don't know...there are all kinds of parasitic systems operating around us, including us...so, yeah, I do get caught up in the hierarchical, farming principal...

If we are Consciousness, floating around the Multiverse, choosing at various times to inhabit local planetary populations...who is to argue against other Life systems choosing to harvest the same biological entities we happen to be inhabiting?

Who has rights here? Any contracts been drawn up? Frightening...damn...lol.

I'm very sorry to hear you have the T word also. Really sucks, even if it is a data stream. Mine's around 5000 hz and is screaming all the time lately. Nothing I've tried over fifteen years has dented it beyond a temporary reduction.

An alternate leaning medical acquaintance of mine claims that growing tinnitus in the population is due to physical brain damage from all the new massive levels of microwave energy we are all being exposed to from many sources. Good a theory as any I suppose.

You mentioned TMI/five weeks. Do you work there? Just curious. I know Tom was adamant that loosh was nonsense in response to Robert's experience, but there's sure a lot of indicators that the Matrix, loosh, etc., type of concerns are not nonsense, like are shown on Wayne Bush's tricked by the light website and other sources.

It's really a conundrum. On the one hand, you have those who say everything is love and light, and if there is any negative, it's just you creating it. Or, that just by considering the ideas of loosh/trap/Matrix, you are falling to fear and lowering your frequency, etc. I'm not so sure I agree with that. Prudence and intelligent caution are perfectly rational thoughts and actions to have on a planet of many hostilities, and they do not translate to being a fear based person.

Anyway, so, as mentioned, there are also good indicators that the loosh/trap/Matrix ideas are real.

Thus, if the parasitical type theories were true, then it would stand to reason, that those controlling parasite types of entities or even supporting humans/aliens, etc., on Earth, would play down the theories about them, to keep them in power and taking what they want. As in, they would create a narrative for humans saying everything is wonderful, peace, love, rainbows and kittens. Don't rise up, don't question, just go into the loving light when you die. (Heh heh heh, they cackle behind the Wizard's curtain, while holding their reincarnation mind wiping gun at the ready.) Lol.

In real life, there are heaps of bad or parasitical type people in power doing very rotten things all the time. So, it would make sense that the other side could have plenty of it as well. I got duped by my own religion for thirty five years. I escaped that belief bubble. I don't intend to get duped by any other belief system to my own detriment again. Thus, I keep all sides of various "other side" arguments open at all times.

There are some sources that say that both arguments above are true at the same time. In other words, the loosh/trap/Matrix ARE true per their claims, but that we as souls know this and opt to come into the situation anyway, to find our way out of it, collectively. Therefore, per them, at the highest levels of reality/frequency, we are free and everything is fine and on the up and up. We chose this, all of it, per them.

I suppose the above collection of ideas are my main reason for wanting to get out there/go OBE. I'd like my own experiences of what is going on, be it good, bad, or lukewarm, that is, if that level of sleuthing on the other side can be obtained by an OBE laymen.

Well, enough of that. Thank you so much for your feedback, you and the others. 

[Xanth]

In regards to the Loosh thing...

Most people just assume that since Robert Monroe never mentioned it ever again after his second book that he figured out the truth of the concept and that it was based off his own fears or something like that.

You'd think that something as big as humanity being "farmed" of something like this would have elicited even a small mention in his third and final book. 

I remember reading in that book that he made some discoveries about the nature of the non-physical and one of them being that it's a subjective experience of an objective nature.  Which means that what you experience really happened, but how it's shown to you or how it plays out is subjective.

I'll need to re-read that book.  Maybe that should be my next read. 

[lostsole]

In regards to the Loosh thing...

Most people just assume that since Robert Monroe never mentioned it ever again after his second book that he figured out the truth of the concept and that it was based off his own fears or something like that.

You'd think that something as big as humanity being "farmed" of something like this would have elicited even a small mention in his third and final book. 

I remember reading in that book that he made some discoveries about the nature of the non-physical and one of them being that it's a subjective experience of an objective nature.  Which means that what you experience really happened, but how it's shown to you or how it plays out is subjective.

I'll need to re-read that book.  Maybe that should be my next read. 

When reading these sorts of theories and evidence from numerous sources combined with ideas like your third comment, a person can really get their mind twisted up in trying to comprehend what may or may not be going on. I don't know if you have encountered Wayne Bush's evidence utilizing in part, numerous comments from NDE's, but there's certainly enough of it to raise some red flags beyond Robert or Tom's take on it.

After my decades long NDE study, I became an NDE true believer for a long while. My new religion for a time. Lol. I was totally in the love/light, everything is wonderful after we die camp.

Thus, the new course of study was an incredibly difficult and admittedly depressing journey to go down, that the NDE "may" have a different purpose and reality behind it. (trap/loosh/Matrix, etc.) There was enough evidence after a few years of that new NDE may be a trick, that I had to set NDEs on the shelf and look at them with a new perspective, while keeping an open mind to I don't know for certain either way. It really was a mind melt for me.

It is also possible that Tom, Robert, or anyone else in the know, may realize some of this "scary" stuff does have some degree of merit but they don't want to frighten people with it, or turn them off of exploring OBE, etc. This could be because humans, where fear is concerned, tend to think in black and white, all good, all bad. The other side may have loosh/trap/Matrix going on simultaneously with a ton of good stuff also in other areas or levels of existence. Maybe loosh/trap/Matrix is only for certain souls who wanted that experience? Who knows? There could be a million shades of grey, and perhaps Tom and Robert know this?

In my own life, I have knowledge of things going on on this planet that would scare everyone I know and depress the hell out of them. So, I don't tell them about that knowledge as what would be the point? They are not ready for it, nor would they even believe it. I let them live their lives, I live mine. Anyway, so with Tom or Robert, it could be a degree of that sort of protecting others from knowledge they are not ready for. Again, I don't know? It's all speculation. Regardless, I'm keeping my own mind open to potentials, but leaning positive as much as possible. 

Well, I've said enough on the matter for now. At times I wish things could be simple and "heavenly," but then if they were, they would be boring at the same time. So, if nothing else, the journey, no matter where it leads, is fascinating and certainly challenging! : )

Thank you for your comments!

[lostsole]

This ties into what we are discussing from another highly experienced OBE pro. From what I understand he's saying, we create all of our experiences on the other side, good or bad.

More to chew on... 

Start at around the 8:40 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSyvHMmbrSE

[Xanth]

You can actually link YouTube videos directly into chat now. 

Hit the YouTube button and fill out the field with the web url then hit enter.  It'll do this:

[lostsole]

Cool, got it, thanks!