Do you worship god (or not) and why?

[no_leaf_clover]

its physically impossible to have proof of god unless he decided to pop into the sky or something, especially in scientific terms. but then again, scientifically, he could pop into the sky and there would still be no proof.

i'm atheist, and i've had tons of debates with christians. you can argue for or against god, but it really just comes down to faith. whether or not you have a faith in god.

i used to be a satanist. what drove me away was their principles and guidelines, etc.. for lack of better language (pardon me), the leading members just seem like dickheaded assholes. their 'texts' just had an air of 'we're better than everybody else, so screw them!', and that's actually more accurate than you might think. for example, they tell you to have respect for people when you're on their property, but when they come onto your property and offend you, you must be cruel and merciless to them to serve as a lesson to them. you can look that up, to: www.churchofsatan.com

but of course, you can be satanist and have different views. why? just to get the followers that reject it's beliefs. bunch of corrupted cheap-o's are leading that religion, man.

[kakkarot]

i'm christian, but i'm open minded and i've looked at the "satanic bible" and the first page wasn't too bad - i actually agree with some of those things.

but when i turned to the second page i put it down because i don't like being lied to (it says that satan has never attacked the church even though the church has been at satan's throat for the past two thousand years; that satan isn't evil, he's just depicted badly by the church; etc)

it was just too stupid for words.

as for needing proof of God: wouldn't you then need proof that satan exists in order to believe in him? otherwise it would be highly hypocritical of you to believe in one spiritual being just because you want to, but not another just because you don't want to. [|)]

~kakkarot

[goingslow]

I personally think the church of satan is moronic.  I havent met one person who has said they're a part of it who wasn't in it to be "special" or for the shock of it.

Its very cool though in a marilyn manson shock value way.  Theres nothing more to it than that.

[no_leaf_clover]

kakkarot -

satanists are atheists. they believe that satan is more of a buddha character - a teacher or leader, but not a god. they believe there is no god. i'm not sure what exactly they were trying to prove on the page you were reading, but check out their site..

quote:In Satanism, Satan is...a representation of certain qualities that the Satanist embodies...

but yes.. it is moronic. those people are in it for the image associated with the christian satan more than for their spiritual quests.

[fredhedd]

i always thought it was impossible to worship something that you don't know about.  everyone that believes in god may have a different opinion on what god is.  how would you know if you were talking about the same thing?  

when someone asks me if i believe in god, i ask them to tell me what god is and i will tell them if i believe or not.  i have never found someone that could tell me.  a lot of people that say they believe, don't actually know what they are believing in.

[no_leaf_clover]

yeah.. america sucks about that. the first colony on the east coast (besides florida) was founded by the puritans x.x. they didn't even fit in in ancient times, and they were basically kicked out of britain. freedom from religious persecution.. why couldn't they have been sent to mexico? []

ever since those first colonies, from the constitution to the civil war and on, the US has always been both mostly christian but unspiritual. most people have never considered other religions. i wouldnt be surprised if they didn't even know of any other religions, besides maybe 'devil worship'. maybe they'll consider a different branch of christianity, but thats about it. and like fred said, a lot of people don't even know what they're believing it. but they sure do try to defend christianity as best they can, even when they don't know jack about it. i've noticed that most people that try to bash me for being atheist make up a lot of stuff as they go along, to try to make me feel bad i guess. threaten me with hell. it'd be pretty embarrassing for other christians, i'm sure.

[warlockyoshi]

I am neither christain of satanist.  I believe in speeding the evolution of the human race.  Whether by genetic engenering or by stopping the spread of religion.  I believe that religion gets in the way of evolution and development and therefore belong to no religion.  But some satanic principles that get my attention such as the sinister dialect.  I belief that christianity is the cause of the dark age.  Before the dark age were the roman's.  The romans had more technology at a earlier time than the christain's in the dark age then the spread of catholacism came to the roman empire and the empire fell.  If it had not we would probably be in hyperspace by now.  Notice that every major empire prior to the fall of the romans was based on paganistic views?  This is because the put more time into technology than in religion.  However, the majority of American society is christain and we are the biggest powerhouse economy in the world. But this is not because of the spread of christianity it is because the fall of it.  There are more atheists now than ever and there are less christains.

[no_leaf_clover]

youre right yoshi..

it's not the fact that people believe in a single, all-powerful god that screwed stuff up, it was the church. the catholic church criticized and surpressed many brilliant people that we look back on now with appreciation. had galileo not waited til his death to publish his findings, the catholic church would have executed him before the high point of his discoveries. who knows what knowledge they've deprived us of?

the egyptians, romans, greeks, etc., had a vast knowledge of architecture and water systems, whether you acknowledge alien help or not. they created vast structures that we still look at with amazement (i'm not talking about the great pyramids, i believe the egyptians didn't make those, and there is irrefutable evidence of such should i want to type it up and people to accept it). a temple to jupiter built by the romans was discovered near jerusalem in the 1800s. this temple was massive, possibly more massive than the pyramids. there were solid blocks of rock that weighed 1200 tons that had been raised into the air and rested on huge columns. there is no explaination for how this is done. modern cranes can't even lift that much weight to a height that high, and what's more, this was on a mountainside!

technology like this should have been passed down through the ages, but it wasn't. so we have degressed in technology in the past, during the dark ages. imo, the dark ages were when ancient technology fell and we began to rediscover things for ourselves and start recording everything over. and the catholics were supressing these new ideas, thinking for ourselves.

the church doesn't have as much power anymore, and i'm thankful. but the skeptic people that won't believe in the metaphysical, obe's and lucid dreams, etc., are now the ones holding us back from advancing. but people seem to be giving into to more and more radical ideas.. we may have dbz to thank for some of that in the younger generations, people wanting to blow stuff up with balls of energy []

eh.. since i lost myself ill shut up.

[goingslow]

Warlockky you actually pointed out one of the main reasons I think the church of satan is lame.  Its a purely reactionary church.  It is based on the christian church itself.  Either for the reason four leaf clover mentioned where its a fascination with the christian devil.  Or what you implied.  You're so fed up with christianity etc etc... so thats an option.

I dont really mean to insult your view on it but it doesn't make any sense to me.  Its like you've thought out the first part ...the evils of the church there's no proof of god.  Soooo... you're gonna join the church of satan?  

People will say there's more to it than that etc etc.. Yes in the writing its supposedly about more.  But the reasons most go to it in the first place and the very reason its there is because of the christian church.  Its just too much of a "we'll show them" type of church for me.

[strwrs_guru]

satanism.............are you for real?

whats wrong with you guys?

i am teetering on the edge of belief in god myself, but satanism as a replacement?

i looked at the satanic bible and it just looked like one big selfish fest to me. do what pleases you, do what you want, who is anyone else to tell you what to do to please yourself.

what kind of mindf*** crap is that?

i have looked into many things to search for god myself. i have read histories, Archeological evidence, scientific proof, etc.  these are the kind of things one needs to do when they are feeling left out of the big picture. you dont just stand there and say these things sound like crap, i think ill try something else like satanism.

be intelligent, be smart about your answers. if you dont want to believe in god, thats fine and also your choice, but at least research the subject. you guys are the ones putting down christians for not being able to explain who or what god is. i myself also think they need to study up on their own convictions so they can give plausible answers to the atheists when they come along. too many people go to church and just listen to the man up front tell them all about it, and then they make those things their beliefs. what if that guy up front has it all wrong? they are all skrewed thats what.


i apologize for sounding like a better than you asswipe. but you guys should do some research on some of these things. it would be a real eye opener. it might interest you all to know that a lot of scientific research is starting to lead right back to the probability of a "controlling intelligent force" behind the workings of things.

again i apologize, but satanism?

[kakkarot]

i don't mean to belittle your posts, strwrs, but that was funny [].

however, the search for truth cannot overlook any possibility, otherwise you may miss the one idea, the one answer, that could help you on to your next spiritual step.

all things should be considered, even if your first reaction is that it is evil. after all, what if one's preconcieved notions of something is totally wrong?

i do agree that stopping at any one place and just up and declaring it to be the truth while knowing deep down that it isn't is doing yourself a great disservice.

but in and of itself, the first page of satanism isn't that bad for a religious ideology. after all, if there really is no god, then who is there to look out for except yourself? if there is no final judgement that bestows blessings upon you for doing good and punishment upon you for doing evil, then why do good (well, there really is good reason to do good things, but that's another story and goes outside the scope of satanism: the "helping others helps yourself" idea.)?

~kakkarot: stirring up trouble for both sides [|)]

[fredhedd]

nietschze was one of the greatest philosphers that ever lived and if i remember correctly, would say that there are no morals, no god, blah blah and that you should do what you what pleases you at whatever cost.  

maybe nietschze is the devil.

[warlockyoshi]

Thank you for your support no leaf cover!  No one even realizes that the bible contradicts itself.  How can you call yourself a christian and still be apart of this forum?  God hates magic. Deuteronomy 18:10

[no_leaf_clover]

well, i didnt really say anything about christians comitting sins by astral projecting, etc.. robert bruce says in astral dynamics that astral projection is not prohibited by any major religion. [B)]

keep in mind that a lot of what makes up christianity is there to keep people in line and not have them do 'wrong' things. thus, hell and satan were introduced and replaced reincarnation (around 350 AD), which was once part of christian beliefs. it was the catholic church during the medieval times..

i wouldnt try to instigate trouble with the christians, warlock []. there's no way to convert a christian with words, and there's no reason that you should try. i have nothing against anyone who is christian, jewish, muslim, satanist, pagan, etc. just because of what they believe. even though the bible contradicts itself hundreds of times over, the bible has been changed and edited and rewritten more times than it is even known. i believe the bible is a good source of ancient history, it's just been changed to fit into a monotheistic religion, hence it's a little biased. there was a monotheistic movement going on when it was written. []

[kakkarot]

how, yoshi?

because i've talked to Him directly about it and He said the same thing as He did for chi/psi and other metaphysical things: as long as I don't worship them or put them before Him in my life, then it does not matter. [|)]

~kakkarot

"Love one another, for love is of God,
He who loves is born of God and knows God.
He who does not love, does not know God,
for God is Love, God is love."
-A Song

[cainam_nazier]

To believe in god with out proof is to have faith.
To NOT believe in god with out proof is also to have faith.

Even an athiest, who simply says that there is no god, puts the same amount of faith into thier convictions as a person who truely believes in the existance of god.

To be without religion is to be agnostic.  There may or may not be a god.  Or there is no god for me but there may be one for you.

I have not been shown enough proof one way or the other to believe whole heartedly in either direction.

There are many things in many different bibles that have some scientific backing to them but then there are also things in every bible that simply can not be proven.  I could go into great depth but I'll save it for later if need be.

Personally I am starting to believe in the personal god theory.  This being that every ones ideas of god change from person to person and some times day to day.  This and that the existance or non-existance of a god is a personal issue, which often is the result of a personal experiance.

As for my thoughts on the Christian God and Satan.  One simply can not exist with out the other.  They are the two sides of a coin.  To say you believe in one and not the other is to contradict yourself.  Satanist and Satanism believe in the existance of Satan.  Pure and simple.  Of course in the true style of Satan this fact is not revealed to you until you are "in too deep".  Satans way is to get you not to believe in God and to commit the ultimate sin, saying that God does not exist.  

For those who can not grasp the concept of this idea, I will put it this way.  In the Christian view saying that God does not exist is the same as saying your parents don't exist, that they never existed and hence did not give you life.  It is not until you have done this and delved deep into Satanism do you discover the true intent of the "teachings".  Ofcourse by this time you are already hooked on the "do it for yourself" attitude.

I think I will stop there and see what is said.

[kakkarot]

excellent post

and i've only got one problem with it: satan is not God's "opposite and balancing force" as so many people seem to believe. satan is a mere angel, God is above the angels as they are above us. (sorry for nitpicking [|)])

~kakkarot

[warlockyoshi]

Kakkarot you are full of $#!+.  God does not speak directly to anyone but the prophets.  ANd there are no modern day prophets.  I can sense that you are lying without even being near you just by the way that you talk.

[warlockyoshi]

Once again I would like to clarify that I am not Satanist but Satanists (from what I've read) do not believe in Satan as in the arch-angel but rather as just a sinister force.  In the bible it states that "the natural man is the enemy of God" therefor does this not mean that we are all Satanists since "no man can serve to masters" and if you act as a natural man should than you are serving Satan because you are the enemy of God.[V]  Therefor no matter no matter how hard you try not you sin you are still damned since "no mortal man lies without sin".  "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."[}:)]

[warlockyoshi]

Once again I would like to clarify that I am not Satanist but Satanists (from what I've read) do not believe in Satan as in the arch-angel but rather as just a sinister force.  In the bible it states that "the natural man is the enemy of God" therefor does this not mean that we are all Satanists since "no man can serve to masters" and if you act as a natural man should than you are serving Satan because you are the enemy of God.[V]  Therefor no matter  how hard you try not you sin you are still damned since "no mortal man lies without sin".  "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."[}:)]

[warlockyoshi]

[|)]sorry about that I did not mean to post the same thing twice.

[kakkarot]

quote:Originally posted by warlockyoshi

God does not speak directly to anyone but the prophets.  ANd there are no modern day prophets.

really, i didn't know that God was so limited like that. i find it rather amazing that the creator of the entire universe cannot possibly speak to anyone other than a few select people.

but then again, all of God's people are His chosen people. and i am one of His people.

and a question: how do you KNOW there are no modern prophets? because you haven't met one? [|)]

~kakkarot

[warlockyoshi]

Oh but I have met a supposed prophet.  Gorden B. Hinkley of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints or to put it short the Mormon church.  There was nothing divine about him I could not sense the slightest aura about him and I am fairly good at sensing auras.  In the bible it states that God does not speak to anyone but the prophet.  He does suppossedly answer prayers though.

[no_leaf_clover]

quote:Originally posted by warlockyoshi

Once again I would like to clarify that I am not Satanist but Satanists (from what I've read) do not believe in Satan as in the arch-angel but rather as just a sinister force.  In the bible it states that "the natural man is the enemy of God" therefor does this not mean that we are all Satanists since "no man can serve to masters" and if you act as a natural man should than you are serving Satan because you are the enemy of God.[V]  Therefor no matter no matter how hard you try not you sin you are still damned since "no mortal man lies without sin".  "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone."[}:)]

that does NOT mean we're all satanists. you're implying satanist as a devil-worshiper, while an actual satanist is atheist and therefore does not believe in a monotheistic satan or god, or else is very misinformed. two very different things. and satanists refer to satan as an embodiment of their beliefs. the only difference is that they don't actually come out and say they're just trying to make people think they're bad.. but imo their satan is the embodiment of the ideal moron [|)]

[kakkarot]

and you think moses had any sort of special aura about him? he was just a sheep herder. or noah? a farmer, wasn't he? or adam and eve? they were around even before prophets began being mentioned yet God still spoke to them. or isaiah, or job, or daniel, or solomon, or ... and the list goes on.

God talks to whom He chooses to talk.[|)]

~kakkarot