Do you worship god (or not) and why?

[warlockyoshi]

You are right no leaf cover.  I was in a time bind when I was typing that post because we are not supposed to get on forums at school.  What, I meant was almost every religion.  I know what you were saying about buddhism but in the five seconds that it took me to type that post and logout before the teacher saw me, I failed to realize that.  Okay so almost every religion claims that they are the true church.  When I say church I am not talking about the individual but about the religion in general.  Many, many churches try to suprres the ideas of their members and call those who don't allow them to false prophets.  Then again alot of the ideals of some churches make absolutly perfect sense.  The other day a girl was telling me that we should go back to the old ways and forget modern technology, and science.  I replied, "If it were not for science we would not have medicine, were it not for medicine we would not be here.  The black plague would of wiped us out, and were it not for science we would still be monkeys."  That is why I do not follow the ideals of any paticular religion.  It is rediculous that the christians will not us practice cloning, it could do nothing but help.  It would allow us to more fully administer organs to those in need and it would open the door to future advancements in medical technology.  So, does it make any sense to you to not allow cloning?  Or do you believe that it is immoral and wrong?  I believe that the benifits out weight the consequences but that is just my opinion.

[no_leaf_clover]

that's true.

as far as cloning for good purposes (stem cells).. i don't see anything wrong with it. as long as the embryo isn't made to suffer any pain, and i don't think it really consciously can until it's much more developed. sure, it won't get the chance to life a full life..

[bomohwkl]

What is God? People usually refer God as the Creator of the Universe.
To understand one's action, we need to understand one's motive in an action.
What are the motives, God creates this universe?
To understand one's character, we need to see what has been done.
Look around you. It takes tremendous knowledge just to build something in particular your body.
Therefore, we can say God is an EXTREMELY intelligent being if he is the creator of this Universe.
Then it is good to assume that a very intelligent being will not do something (in particular if something involves tremendous effort) without a purpose.
The God or I prefer to refer as the GREAT intellect creates the Universe for a purpose.
Do you think an extremely intelligent being like being worshipped? Does this Universe create, so that human can worship him?
Evidence or not whether God exist only exist on one's mind. If a human cannot comprehend the evidence presented, then he cannot see the evidence in his mind.
Faith is not enough. You need to know.
I know God exists rather that I believe God exists.
If you know the reasons why the God create this universe, then you know the true beauty of life and the universe, and you have answers like most people asked, "Well if there is a god, why is there disease and horror on this earth?"

[warlockyoshi]

I agree no leaf clover.  I think we should clone individual organs if that is at all possible.  As for you bomohwkl I dissagree.  If god did exist and he was powerful and intellegent enough to create universes ou of dust particles, then why does he need us to worship him?  Is it because he is not unconfident of his own power or is it because HE DOES NOT EXIST[:O]  Wouldn't it be odd if god didn't exist until someone thought him up?  What if he now exists, as a topa, because people believe he exists?  Like Queen Mab from Merlin.  It is just a theory so don't make fun of me!!  That would explain all of the contradictions in the bible would it not.  If he does not exist then that would explain why everone has different views of him now wouldn't it?

[strwrs_guru]

warlockyoshi you have not even tried to research the subject of whether or not there is a god. i can tell from some of the things you post. you want your opinion on the matter to be so true that it is blinding you to some of the obvious answers.

i agree that the bible has many contradictions. these came about from the christians trying to wrap the other pagen religions into their own. for example christmas is celebrated as the birth of christ but the early christians just made that his "birthday" to pull the worshipors of the winter solstas into their agenda.

the early christians realized that to try and overpower the pagens and force them to believe in their ways was going to be near impossible. but to incorporate some of the pagen beliefs into the christian religion while not actually calling it that, would bring more people into the "fold".

anyway, to say there is no god is wrong!!!! im sorry but to believe in the big bang theory is dumb. something doesnt come from nothing!!!!you sound like a science man, even you should know this. the statues and museum displays show us the 10,000 bones they have found that fit the evolution THEORY. what they dont show us is the 1,000,000 bones that dont fit the theory behind the museum walls.

scientists still cant explain why certain cells in the human embryo go off to be brain cells and others go off to be liver cells and others go off to be finger nail cells. they have cracked the dna codes but all that did was explain a tiny fragment of whats going on. we hear about and look at a single cell organism and think its the simplest and most basic thing in the living world. but scientists are now starting tio discover that those same single cell organisms are more complicated than our most advanced computer on the planet. we just cant see on a small enough level yet to see whats going on inside it. we say single cell, but are actually wrong. it is made up of millions of things that we cant fathom yet.
we all think of the infinately big but we all forget about the infinately small. just because we are to arrogant to recognize the small we think we know it all and have most of the answers.

the infinately small is where we find GOD, or the CREATOR, or whatever one wants to call it. there is a driving force or controlling force behind all the small that makes up all the big stuff we can be a part of and appreciate.

[no_leaf_clover]

guru, if the big bang theory is just that obviously impossible, it wouldn't be accepted by most scientists worldwide. the big band theory is NOT that something came from nothing and exploded, the big bang theory is that there was a super-dense mass of energy the size of a pin head, and it exploded and everything busted outwards into the universe in all directions. it does not explain where this small mass of atoms came from, but it makes perfect sense as to why the galaxies are flying apart at ever-increasing speed (along with some invisible mass).

the 3rd dimension, last i heard, was created by some glitch in a much higher dimension. some catastrophe.

there is more than one conclusion that you can come to when some fossils fit a theory and some do not [] to say this has to be god without a doubt is rash.

quote:scientists still cant explain why certain cells in the human embryo go off to be brain cells and others go off to be liver cells and others go off to be finger nail cells.

neither is there a cure for the common cold. just give the world time. a hundred years ago, we were totally in the dark compared to today, and a hundred years from now, expect the same. in the past 100 years we've came up with both air planes and space ships, radios and televisions and speakers, computers, modern automobiles, mass production, satellites, etc., etc... even a very gifted man from the 1800's would have a hard time trying to simply fathom these things that we take for granted today.

[strwrs_guru]

no leaf clover,

all these are good points. i did come off sounding like this was the answer to god. i didnt mean to. i just meant to imply that the severe complexity of everything points more to the possibility of god than to the possibility that this all happened by a random fluke.


and i do happen to believe in the big bang. god had to make it happen somehow.lol[]

[Terry B]

quote:Originally posted by James S
Too many fanatics refuse to allow other people to worship in the way they choose. For all the flaws that have been pointed out about satanism here, I've yet to hear about a satanist priest encouraging members of his church to strap bombs to themselves and go out to kill as many unbelieving infidels as possible.

It's not so much that they want to strap bomb on themselves and kill "infidels"(whatever that means) as the desperation in their situation. More about about survival, of others, to some. Either way, they lose. People killed themselves for many reason. Could be related to revenge, hatred, pity, depression, loss or what not. It's not as simple as we would like to believe in our comfortable life. And not to say bomb strapping is right in any way.

[James S]

It's true Terry B, there could be a lot more behind it, and it is a bit of an extreme example. It just seems to be so often we hear of "jihads" - holy wars, or islamic militants convinced that they will earn their families a place in heaven if they become suicide bombers. Not that christian militants are any better.

Intolerance, or lack of willingness to tolerate usually ends in violence, and more often than not it someones beliefs that isn't tolerated by others.

Funny how the central figures in all religious beliefs strongly advocate tolerance and acceptance of others and their ways.

James.

[cainam_nazier]

Then of course if God created every thing, then where did God come from?

[bomohwkl]

warlockyoshi,
I NEVER say that God creates us just to worship him.In fact,if someone know the purpose of the existence of the universe, someone will then knows that worshipping God is an INSULT to the God itself.
In fact the TEN COMMANDMENTS:Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Make a lot of sense. How can you REPRESENT INTELLECT with anything MATERIAL?
Unfortunately, nowsaday, "chistianity" depict God as a complete idiot. I don't blame anyone who doesn't trust them. Do you think that the Designer of the Universe needs a proxy?
The Bible? Full of rubbish and distortion.For its purpose is to scared, misinformed and CONFUSED people to greatest extent until they surrender their own intellects. It is so much easy to control a flock of people who don't think.(just look like a flock of sheep) Although there are several diamonds inside the rubbish but for those who aren't evolved enough rubbish and diamonds look the same.
It is the very lacking knowledge of the PURPOSE of the UNIVERSE that causes so much misery in the world!!
However, everyone has their own freedom to do and learn whatever they one.

[Terry B]

James,

Yep, we've often hears of militants in the name of religion. Not just islam, there are christians, jews, hindus and other are also guilty of this. By the  way the concept of jihad were very much misused today. Those who killed themselves in suicide bombing are actually committing harms to themselves here or in the afterlife according to islamic teaching. There is no such thing as killing themselves and other people and guaranteeing themselves a place in heaven. Much less the concepts of granting other people in the family a place in heaven. Everyone needs to be responsible for their own action.

Intolerance be they religious, or politics or whatnots have led to many pointless violence. It seems surprising that all the central figures of various religion strongly advocate tolerance and acceptance but there is always someone in position of authority willing to twist the fact to further their agenda. And there are always those who are susceptible to this influence. Religion is not wrong. In fact many good have come from it. But it's a powerful tools and there are always those who misuse it.

[Eonnn]

This thread is so long i doubt anyone will get to read this.. not that it matters anyway.

I dont really believe in god, however, i do believe in something. I believe in energy and karma. Maybe god is just energy and its all around us, everywhere.

[beav31is]

Create means something does not exist and at a later TIME it does. There is no time in the higher densities/levels, therefore nothing had to be created to exist. "Who created the universe" is an invalid question.

[no_leaf_clover]

maybe a more refined version of that question would be this..

why does anything exist at all? why isn't there just a vast, infinite nothingness covering the universe in its entirety?

thats a question thats been bugging me every since i was 6 or 7 years old. i didn't know about other dimensions or how time works, but i would wonder why anything was here at all..

[timmerdogg]

bomohwkl, i am a christian. How is worshiping GOD an insult to himself!?! That makes no sense. The ten commandments are there for humanity to folllow so that we dont fall away from GOD and order in the world. We ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO MATERIALIZE GOD! YOU said that "christianity" depicts GOD as an idiot, your wrong! You cant say that. For example my church doesnt depict GOD as an idiot! The Bible was written by people that were told what to write from GOD. THEREFORE it is not rubbish. GOD is not herding us with the bible. What gave you that thought!? It doesnt lack anything. It is ment as a guidline to live our lives by. The MISERY in this world is brought on by our own sin. If the world followed the BIBLE all would be well. Before you try to put down CHRISTIANTY you better check your sources! You could get people really mad! DONT HAVE AN OUTBURST LIKE THAT AGAIN PLEASE. All you christians better stick up for yourselves.[] peace, tim

[no_leaf_clover]

the bible was supposively originally written by men as the knowledge of god flowed through them or whatnot, but there are still at least two problems with this. one is that humans make mistakes, and if there is a god, it's very possible that things were written that weren't exactly words of god but were claimed and thought to be, even by the one writing the bible. two is that there have been many, many versions of the bible in the past thousand years or so. mistranslations, introductions of fictitious characters to keep order, inaccuracies that are caused by long periods of time, etc., etc.

if everybody went by the bible, there would be no such thing as science [] the earth would still the center of the universe, the sun and planets would revolve around earth, solar and lunar eclipses would be omens, mice would be born from rags and crumbs of bread, unexplainable things would be either 'black magic' or signs from god, etc. such things were believed in the recent past. the catholic church even persecuted anyone who openly criticized those beliefs. it was pathetic.

[timmerdogg]

I am not catholic and i dont believe in there ways. Science would still occur if we followed the bible. You dont understand. True Chrisitians arent closed minded drones as you may have thought they were. We are for the advancement of science as much as everyone else. It's just thing like evolution we don't like about science because we dont believe that is true. The bible has survived past many generations. Sure there are different versions. The meaning has not changed though. God has insured that the Word is protected. Some people claim to be christians who are not truly. This may be why you have these differnet ideas about christianity. The bible doesnt say we cant have technology and science. I dont know where you people are hearing this stuff but im the christian here and i know the things your saying are not true.

[bomohwkl]

timmerdogg,I am sorry if feel that way. Christianity has been always propagating the fact that Jesus died in the cross because of our SINS. That's doesnt make sense for me. Secondly, they said that we are all born with SINS. That's doesn't make sense.Those who have sins will be punished eternally in HELL. That's doesn't make sense. How can christianity who say that GOD who is soo loving his sons is sooo willing to punish his son ETERNALLY in hell becuase of some , oh well in my opinion stupid SINS that christianity believed in. Trying to scare people? Oh yes, they also removed reincarnation and add something of eternal punishment in Hell. Since I was 6, people was trying to convert me into christianity, the problem there are soo many obvious self-contradictions.I am unwilling to surrender my intellect.
Remember worship and appreciate are different things. It is the appeciation and love the God desire from us.Appeciation implies understanding. Worship always comes with ridiculous rituals. I am sorry to sound too harsh.

[no_leaf_clover]

here's a little something about the bible you want everyone to follow.

it's long, just skim over the mini-titles. details are provided below them. remember, these quotes are from the holy, sacred documents of christianity/judaism.






"Dear Biblicist:

 I read your message regarding God's alleged goodness, mercy, and
justice.  Unfortunately, the entire message is light years from the real
god of the Bible.  Remember when I referred you to the comment by Jesus
in which he said, "Why callest thou me good, there is none good but one,
that is God."  This comment not only proves Jesus is not God or God's
equivalent, proven by his own words no less, but proves he is not
perfect, again by his own words.  Therefore he could not be god because
god by definition is perfect.
 You should be glad he directly states he is not god because if he
were, that would mean he is responsible for all of the following acts.
I would now like to give you a list of the deeds that God committed
somewhere in the Bible and citations will accompany each so there can be
no out-of-context defense.  Please keep in mind that these are the acts
of a supposedly perfect being and please bear with me as the list is
rather lengthy and horrendous to say the least.

THE BIBLICAL GOD'S BEHAVIOR

HE CREATES EVIL

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7).
"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?"
(Lam. 3:38).
"...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them
because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3).
"...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return
every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their
sin" (Jer. 36:3).
"I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby
they should not live.  And I polluted them in their own gifts...."
(Ezek. 20:25-26).
"For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon
this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised
them" (Jer. 32:42).
"...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"
(Amos 3:6).
 See also: Jer. 11:11, 14:16, 18:11, 19:3, 19:15, 23:12, 26:13, 26:19,
35:17, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 42:17, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64, Ezek. 6:10,
Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chron. 34:24, and 2 Chron. 34:28

EVIL COMES FROM THE LORD

"it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that
David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and
was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23).
"it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon
Saul...." (1 Sam. 18:10).
"the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 19:9).
"Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God
troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15).
"the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the
Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14).
"...evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem" (Micah
1:12).
"Thus saith the Lord, Behold I will raise up evil against thee out of
thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give
them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of
this sun. For thou did it secretly: but I will do this thing before all
Israel, and before the sun" (2 Sam. 12:11-12).
"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem...."
(Judges 9:23).
 See also: 1 Kings 14:10, 2 Kings 21:12, and Isa. 31:2.

HE DECEIVES

"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord
have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and
will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and
Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto
the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is
false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but
had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12).
 See also: 2 Chron. 18:18-22, 1 Kings 22:20-23 and Jer. 15:18.

HE TELLS PEOPLE TO LIE

"...and thou (Moses--Ed.) shalt come, thou and the elders of
Israel,unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God
of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee,
three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the
Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18)    and
"afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the
Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me
in the wilderness."
 God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.

"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the
Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to
the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2).
 The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to
meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king.  Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22
that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."

HE LIES

 Joshua 7:1 says,
"The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for
Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord
burned against the people of Israel"
 and God responds by saying in the 11th verse,
"Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...."
 Yet, God did not tell the truth.  Only Achan sinned, not all Israel,
and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying,
"Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."

"He (David--Ed.) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish
the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Sam. 7:13)
 and to David God says,
"thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever: thy throne
shall be established for ever" (2 Sam. 7:16).
 God's prophecy failed.  He didn't tell the truth.  The Davidic line
ended with Zedekiah and there was no Davidic king for 450 years when the
Maccabeans established a dynasty, the first king being Aristobulus.
Since the end of the Maccabean dynasty there has never been a king of
the Jews.  Second Kings 24:14 proves as much by saying,
"He carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty
men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and
smiths.  None remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the
land."

 If viewed together the following verses also show God engaged in
prevarication.
"...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen.
2:17),
"God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest
ye die" (Gen. 3:3),
"the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die"
(Gen. 3:4),
and
"all the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died" (Gen.
5:5).    God said Adam and Eve would die on the day they ate of the tree
and the devil said they would not.  They ate of it and Adam lived to be
930 years old. In other words, God lied and the devil told the truth.
Yet, according to Titus 1:2
"God never lies."

 And finally, in Gen. 3:14 God said to the serpent,
"...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days
of thy life...."
 Serpents do not now and never have eaten dust.  If the serpent
represents the Devil, he does not eat dust either; so, in either case
God did not tell the truth.

HE REWARDS LIARS

Ex. 1:15-20 says, "The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose
names were Shiphrah and Puah, 'When you help the Hebrew women in
childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill
him; but if it is a girl, let her live.'  The midwives, however, feared
God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let
the boys live.  Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked
them, 'Why have you done this?  Why have you let the boys live?'  The
midwives answered Pharaoh,
'Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give
birth before the midwives arrive.'  So God was kind to the midwives and
the people increased and became even more numerous."
 The midwives lied and God rewarded them by being kind to them.

 Joshua 2:3-6 says,
"So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab, 'Bring out the men
who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy
out the whole land.'  But the woman had taken the two men and hidden
them.  She said, 'Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they
had come from.  At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the
men left.  I don't know which way they went.  Go after them quickly.
You may catch up with them. (But she had taken them up to the roof and
hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof)."
 Rahab lied about where the men were and yet James 2:25 says,
"...was not Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did
when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different
direction?"

 And 2 Kings 10:18-21 says,
"Jehu brought all the people together and said to them, 'Ahab served
Baal a little; Jehu will serve him much.  Now summon all the prophets of
Baal, all his ministers and all his priests.  See that no one is
missing, because I am going to hold a great sacrifice for Baal.  Anyone
who fails to come will no longer live.  But Jehu was acting deceptively
in order to destroy the ministers of Baal.... all the ministers of Baal
came; not one stayed away. They crowded into the temple of Baal until it
was full from one end to the other."
 And as verses 25 to 30 show Jehu ordered his guards to go in and kill
all those who worshipped Baal.  After the bloodshed and killing had
concluded the Lord said to Jehu in verse 30,
"Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes
and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your
descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the 4th generation."
 How is that for a God of mercy!

HE ORDERS MEN TO BECOME DRUNKEN

"Then tell them, 'This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel,
says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of
the sword I will send among you" (Jer. 25:27).

HE REWARDS THE FOOL AND THE TRANSGRESSOR

"The great God that formed all things both rewards the fool, and
rewards the transgressors" (Prov. 26:10).

HE DELIVERS A MAN (JOB) INTO SATAN'S HANDS

"The Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his
life" (Job 2:6).

HE MINGLES A PERVERSE SPIRIT

"The Lord has mingled a perverse spirit in the midst thereof; and they
have caused Egypt to err in every work thereof..." (Isa. 19:14).

HE IS NOT OMNIPOTENT OR ALL POWERFUL

"the Lord was with Judah; And he drove out the inhabitants of the
mountains; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley,
because they had chariots of iron" (Judges 1:19).

HE CAUSES INDECENCY

 God orders that the king of Assyria is to
"lead away the Egyptian prisoners, and the Ethiopian captives, young
and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the
shame of Egypt" (Isaiah 20:4).

HE SPREADS DUNG ON FACES

"Behold I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even
the dung of your solemn feasts...." (Mal. 2:3).

HE ORDERS STEALING

"...and ye shall spoil the Egyptians" (Ex. 3:22).
"...and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that
robbed them, saith the Lord God" (Ezek. 39:10).
"As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in
the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves.  And you may use
the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies" (Deut.
20:14).

HE MADE FALSE AND UNFULFILLED PROPHECIES

 In Jonah 3:4 God said,
"yet 40 days and Nineveh shall be overthrown."
 But the 10th verse says,
"God saw their works, that they turned from their evil ways; and God
repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and
he did it not."
 In other words, He who knows the future changed his mind, repented,
and Nineveh was not overthrown.  His prophecy failed.

 In Gen. 15:13 God said to Abraham,
"Know for certain that your descendants will be strangers in a country
not their own, and they shall be enslaved and mistreated 400 years."
 Acts 7:6 says the same.  But Ex. 12:40 says,
"Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was
430 years."
 God's prophecy failed by 30 years.

 Another deific prophecy is found in Gen. 15:16 which says,
"...in the 4th generation they (Abraham's descendants--Ed.) shall come
here again...."
 God told Abraham that his descendants would return in the 4th
generation.  Yet, if Abraham is included, it actually occurred during
the 6th generation.  The generations were: Abraham, Issac, Levi (Ex.
1:2), Kohath (Ex. 6:16), Amram (Ex. 6:18), and Moses (Ex. 6:20).

 In Gen. 17:3, 8 and Ex. 32:13 God told Abraham that he would give to
him and his descendants all of Canaan for an eternal possession.  But
Acts 7:5 says,
"He gave him (Abraham--Ed.) no inheritance here, not even a foot of
ground.  But God promised him that he and his descendants after him
would possess the land, even though at that time Abraham had no child"
 and Heb. 11:13 says,
"All these people...did not receive the things promised; they only saw
them and welcomed them from a distance."
 The Bible itself admits that God's promise to Abraham failed.

 In Gen. 35:10 God said to Jacob,
"thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy
name: and he called his name Israel."
 Yet, 11 chapters later Gen. 46:2 says,
"God spoke to Israel in the visions of the night, and said, Jacob,
Jacob. And he said, Here am I."

 Lastly, 1 Sam. 23:12 says,
"David asked, 'Will the citizens of Keilah surrender me and my men to
Saul?'  And the Lord said, 'They will'."
 This prophecy never occurred, because the opposite happened. Saul was
delivered into David's hands, not once but twice.

HE CHANGES HIS MIND

"The Lord said: I have forgiven them at your request...." (Num. 14:20).

"God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God
repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and
he did it not" (Jonah 3:10).
"God said to Balaam, 'Do not go with them.  You must not put a curse on
those people, because they are blessed.'....  That night God came to
Balaam and said, 'Since these men have come to summon you, go with them,
but do only what I tell you.' Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his
donkey and went with the princes of Moab. But God was very angry when he
went, and the angel of the Lord stood in the road to oppose him...."
(Num. 22:20-22).
 God told Balaam not to go, then changed his mind and told him to go
and punished him when he did.  Talk about indecision!

 Finally, in 2 Kings 20:1 Isaiah came to the sick Hezekiah and told him
he would die and not recover according to God's word.  But according to
the 4th and 5th verses God told Isaiah to go back and tell Hezekiah that
because God had heard his prayer and seen his tears he would be healed
and live 15 more years.  Again, God changed his mind.

HE CAUSES ADULTERY

"This is what the Lord says: 'Out of your own household I am going to
bring calamity upon you.  Before your very eyes I will take your wives
and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your
wives in broad daylight.  You did it in secret, but I will do this thing
in broad daylight before all Israel" (2 Sam. 12:11-12).

HE ORDERS THE TAKING OF A HARLOT

"...the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and
children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom,
departing from the Lord" (Hosea 1:2).

HE ORDERS A MAN TO PURCHASE HIS WIFE

"The Lord said to me, 'Go show your love to your wife again, though she
is loved by another and is an adultress.  Love her as the Lord loves the
Israelites, though they turn to other gods....  So I brought her for 15
shekels of silver and about a homer and a half of barley.  Then I told
her, 'You are to live with me many days...."  (Hosea 3:1-3).

HE KILLS REPEATEDLY

"there came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the 250 men that
offered incense" (Num. 16:35).
"the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the
people; and much people of Israel died" (Num. 21:6).
"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill,
and I make alive; I wound and I heal...." (Deut. 32:39).
"The Lord smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into
the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people 50,070 men: and the
people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a
great slaughter" (1 Sam. 6:19).
"The Lord kills, and makes alive: he brings down to the grave, and
brings up" (1 Sam. 2:6).
"the hand of the Lord was heavy upon them of Ashdod, and he destroyed
them, and smote them...." (1 Sam. 5:6).
"it came to pass about 10 days after, that the Lord smote Nabal, that
he died" (1 Sam. 25:38).
"Who smote great nations and slew mighty kings...." (Psalms 135:10).
"For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and
the slain of the Lord shall be many" (Isaiah 66:16).
"I will dash them one against another, even the father and the sons
together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy,
but destroy them" (Jer. 13:14).
"I have sent among you the pestilence after the manner of Egypt: your
young men have I slain with the sword...." (Amos 4:10).
"For our God is a consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29).
 Also note: Gen. 38:7,10, Ex. 22:23-24, Num. 11:1, Deut. 32:41-42,
Joshua 10:10-11, 1 Sam. 5:9, Psalms 136:17-18, Hosea 9:16, Amos 2:3, Ex.
4:24, 2 Sam. 6:6-7, and 2 Kings 5:7.

HE ORDERS KILLING

"ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the
sword.  And five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you
shall put 10,000 to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by
the sword" (Lev. 26:7-8).
"the Lord said to Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang
them up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce anger of the
Lord may be turned away from Israel.   And Moses said to the judges of
Israel.  Slay every one his men that were joined to Baal" (Num. 25:4-5).

"Vex the Midianites and smite them" (Num. 25:17).
"But of the cities of these people, which the Lord thy God doth give
thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breathes.
But thou shalt utterly destroy them...as the Lord thy God has commanded
thee" (Deut. 20:16-17).
"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills...he left none remaining,
but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord God of Israel
commanded" (Joshua 10:40).
"As I listened, god said to the others, 'Follow him through the city
and kill, without showing pity or compassion.  Slaughter old men, young
men and maidens, women and children...." (Ezek. 9:5-6).
"And the Lord sent you on a mission, saying 'Go and completely destroy
those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have
wiped them out.'" (1 Sam. 15:18).
"Attack the land of Merathaim and those who live in Pekod. Pursue, kill
and completely destroy them' declares the Lord.  Do everything I have
commanded you" (Jer. 50:21).
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that
belongs to them.  Do not spare them; put to death men and women,
children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (1 Sam.
15:3).
 Also note: Ex. 32:27-28, Num. 21:34-35, 31:7-8, 35:19-21, and Jer.
48:10.

HE LOSES HIS TEMPER

 Even though Job 5:2 says,
"For wrath kills the foolish man, and envy slays the silly one" God
often loses his composure. The following are good examples:

         "...the Lord may turn from the fierceness of his anger...."
(Deut. 13:17).
         "The anger of the Lord was hot against Israel and he sold them
into the hand of Mesopotamia's king...." (Judges 3:.
         "...the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire
shall devour them" (Psalm 21:9).
         "again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel...."
(2 Sam. 24:1).
         "...he made Israel to sin, to provoke the Lord God of Israel
to anger with their vanities"  (1 Kings 16:26).
         "...the Lord revenges, and is furious; the Lord will take
vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserves wrath for his enemies"
(Nahum 1:2).
         "the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel...." (2
Kings 13:3).
         "the anger of the Lord was hot against Israel" (Judges 2:20).
          See also: Ex. 32:10, Num. 11:1, 16:46, 32:13-14, 1 Kings
14:9, 15:30, 16:2, 16:7, 16:13, 2 Chron. 34:25, Psalm 18:7, and Jer.
44:6.

HE IS OFTEN JEALOUS

         "...I the Lord thy God am a jealous God...." (Deut. 5:9, Ex.
20:5).
         "For the Lord thy God is a jealous God among you...." (Deut.
6:15).
         "How long, O Lord? Will you be angry forever?  How long will
your jealousy burn like fire?" (Psalm 79:5).
         "For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I
spoken...." (Ezek. 38:19).
         "God is jealous, and the Lord revenges...." (Nahum 1:2).
         "Thus says the Lord of hosts; I was jealous of Zion with great
jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury" (Zech. 8:2).
          See also: Ex. 34:14, Deut. 4:24, 29:20, Psalms 78:58, Ezek.
16:38, 36:5-6 and Joshua 24:19.

HE IS NOT EVERYWHERE or OMNIPRESENT

 Even though Jer. 23:24 says,
"Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith
the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth?"
 and Psalm 139:7-12 says the Lord is everywhere, the following verses
say he is not.

         "Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the
land of Nod, on the east of Eden" (Gen. 4:16).
         "the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the
children of men built" (Gen. 11:5).
         "he said to Balak, Stand here by thy burnt offering, while I
meet the LORD yonder"  (Num. 23:15).
         "...the Lord was not in the wind: and after the wind an
earthquake; but the Lord was not in the earthquake: and after the
earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire...." (1 Kings
19:11-12).
         "I, the Lord, will go down and see if what they have done is
as bad as the outcry that has reached me.  If not, I will know" (Gen.
18:21).
         "So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord" (Job 1:12
and 2:7),
          and
"Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the Lord...."
(Jonah 1:3).
          Also note: Gen. 17:22, 18:33, Ex. 11:4, 20:24, 25:8, Deut.
33:2, Psalm 9:11, 10:1, 14:2, Jer. 23:39, Hosea 11:9, Joel 3:17, Hab.
3:3.

HE DOESN'T KNOW ALL

 Even though Prov. 15:3,
"The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and
the good"
 says god sees everything that goes on, the following verses deny his
omniscience.

         "the Lord God called to Adam, and said to him,  Where art
thou?" (Gen. 3:9).
         "the Lord said to Cain, 'Why are you angry?  Why is your face
downcast?" (Gen. 4:6).
         "the Lord said to Cain, Where is Abel thy brother?  And he
said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?" (Gen. 4:9).
         "Then the Lord said,...I will go down and see if what they
have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me.  If not, I will
know" (Gen. 18:20-21).
         "Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the
desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know
what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands"
(Deut. 8:2).
         "you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer.
The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with
all your heart and with all your soul" (Deut. 13:3).
         "The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to
see if there were any that did understand, and seek God" (Psalm 14:2).
         "This is what the Sovereign Lord says: Have you come to
inquire of me?  As surely as I live, I will not let you inquire of me,
declares the Sovereign Lord" (Ezek. 20:3).
          Also note: Gen. 22:12, Num. 22:9, 2 Chron. 32:31, Hosea 8:4,
Amos 9:3, and Jer. 32:35.
 Yet, God does know all according to Prov. 15:3 which says, "The eyes
of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good."

HE REPENTS

 Even though 1 Sam. 15:29
"the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man,
that he should repent"
 says that god never repents, the following verses say the opposite.

         It repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it
grieved him at his heart" (Gen. 6:6).
         "...the Lord repented of the evil which he though to do unto
his people" (Ex. 32:14).
         "...the Lord repented that he had made Saul king over Israel"
(1 Sam. 15:35).
         "The Lord said, It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be
king...." (1 Sam. 15:11).
         "...that I the Lord God may repent of the evil, which I
purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer.
26:3).
         "If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from
their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them"
(Jer. 18:,
           and
"...for I repent of the evil that I have done to you" (Jer. 42:10).
          Also see: Deut. 32:36, Judges 2:18, 2 Sam. 24:16, 1 Chron.
21:15, Psalm 106:45, Jer. 15:6, 18:10, 26:13, 26:19, Amos 7:3, 7:6,
Jonah 3:9-10, Joel 2:13, and Hosea 11:8.

HE PRACTICES INJUSTICE

 Even though Deut. 32:4
"He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a
God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he"
 says God is just and fair, the following verses prove the opposite.

         "Then say to the Pharaoh, This is what the Lord says: Israel
is my firstborn son, and I told you, 'Let my son go, so he may worship
me,'  But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son'"
(Ex. 4:22-23).
         "The Lord is longsuffering, and of great mercy...visiting the
iniquity of the fathers on the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation"
(Num. 14:18).
         "A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord;
even to the 10th generation shall he not enter...." (Deut. 23:2).
         "Thy son and thy daughters shall be given unto another
people...." (Deut. 28:32).
         "When Achan son of Zerah acted unfaithfully regarding the
devoted things, did not wrath come upon the whole community of Israel?
He was not the only one who died for his sin" (Joshua 22:20).
         "because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord
show utter contempt, the son born to you will die" (2 Sam. 12:14).
         "During the reign of David, there was a famine for 3
successive years; so David sought the face of the Lord.  The Lord said,
'It is on account of Saul and his blood-stained house; it is because he
put the Gibeonites to death'" (2 Sam. 21:1).
         "if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the
Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon
him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek.
14:9).
         "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all
sinned...." (Rom. 5:12).
         "Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time
of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did
Adam...." (Rom. 5:14).
          For additional examples of divine injustice in action see:
Gen. 9:25, 12:17, 20:6-7, Ex. 12:12, 12:29, 21:29, Lev. 5:17, 12:2,5,
15:19, 19:20-22, 21:14, Num. 5:27, 20:7-8, 11, 23-24, 28, 21:4-6,
35:15-18, 35:25, Deut. 19:11-12, 21:18-21, 25:11, 28:53-55, 59, 32:25,
Joshua 7:11, 1 Sam. 2:33, 6:19, 2 Sam. 6:6-7, 24:15-17, 1 Kings
11:11-12, 13: 17-19, 24, 14:15-17, 16:34, 20:35-36, 20:28, 34, 41-42,
21:21, 21:29, 2 Kings 21:16, 17:21, 1 Chron. 21:1, 7, Ezek. 21:3, Matt.
13:12, and Rom. 9:13-16, 18-20.

HE PLAYS FAVORITES

 We are told in Deut. 10:17 and 16:19 that
"the Lord your God is God of Gods...which regards not persons"
 and we are told in 2 Chron. 19:7 that,
"...there is no iniquity with the Lord our God, nor respect of persons,
nor taking of gifts."
 Yet, that is clearly disproven by the following comments.

         "For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord
thy God has chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all
people that are upon the face of the earth"  (Deut. 7:6, 14:2).
         "the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's
sake: because it has pleased the Lord to make you his people" (1 Sam.
12:22).
         "For thy people Israel didst thou make thine own people for
ever; and thou, Lord, became their God" (1 Chron. 17:22).
         "Thou art my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee
away" (Isaiah 41:9).
         "my people shall know my name...." (Isa. 52:6).
         "I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an
inheritor of my mountains; and mine elect shall inherit it...." (Isa.
65:9).
         "You only have I known of all the families of the earth...."
(Amos 3:2).
         "But Jesus answered and said, 'I am not sent but unto the lost
sheep of the house of Israel" (Matt. 15:24).
         "...for salvation is of the Jews" (John 4:22).
          Favoritism is also evident in Gen. 4:4-5, 12:1-3, 13:14-15,
35:12, Ex. 2:25, 11:7,19:5-6, Lev. 26:3-12, Deut. 4:40, 7:14, 28:1-13,
Joshua 24:13, 1 Kings 3:12, 8:53, 2 Kings 13:22-23, 2 Chron. 1:1, 12,
Psalm 138:6, Isa. 43:1, 5, 45:4, 51:2, 16, 63:8, Haggai 2:23, Mal.
1:2-3, Matt. 10:5-6, Luke 1:13, 6:20, Acts 10:40-41, 13:19, 16:6-7, Rom.
1:16, 2:9-10, 9:4-5, 9:13, 11:5, 7, and 1 Peter 2:9.

SANCTIONS SLAVERY

 God sanctions slavery in direct contradiction to 2 Cor. 3:17,
which says,
"Where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty."
 Key statements in this regard are the following:

         "Then thou shalt take an awl, and thrust it through his ear
unto the door, and he shall be thy servant (Read slave--Ed.) forever.
And also unto thy maidservant thou shalt do likewise" (Deut. 15:17).
         "Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give
satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to
pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity, so that in everything they
may adorn the doctrine of God" (Titus 2:9).
         "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and
with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.  Obey them not
only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of
Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.  Serve wholeheartedly, as
if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord
will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or
free"  (Eph. 6:5-7).
         "Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect,
not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who
are harsh.  For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of
unjust suffering because he is conscious of God.  But how is it to your
credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it?  But if
you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before
God.   To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving
you an example, that you should follow in his steps" (1 Peter 2:18-21).
         "Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it,
not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with
sincerity of heart and reverence of the Lord.  Whatever you do, work at
it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for men, since you
know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward.  It
is the Lord Christ you are serving" (Col. 3:22-24).
         "All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their
masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may
not be slandered.  Those who have believing masters are not to show less
respect for them because they are brothers.  Instead, they are to serve
them even better, because those who benefit from their service are
believers, and dear to them.  These are the things you are to teach and
urge on them" (1 Tim. 6:1-2).

HE DEGRADES DEFORMED PEOPLE

 In Lev. 21:16-23 God said to Moses,
"Say to Aaron: 'For the generations to come none of your descendants
who has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God.  No man who
has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame, disfigured or
deformed; no man with a crippled foot or hand, or who is hunchbacked or
dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has festering or running
sores or damaged testicles.  No descendant of Aaron the priest who has
any defect is to come near to present the offerings made to the Lord by
fire.  He has a defect.... because of this defect, he must not go near
the curtain or approach the altar, and so desecrate my sanctuary...."
(Lev. 21:16:23).

HE PUNISHES BASTARDS FOR BEING ILLEGITIMATE

 Deut. 23:2 says,
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to
his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the
Lord."

HE PUNISHES MANY FOR THE ACTS OF ONE

"...for the Lord had closed up every womb in Abimelech's household
because of Abraham's wife Sarah" (Gen. 20:18).
"When David saw the angel who was striking down the people, he said to
the Lord, 'I am the one who has sinned and done wrong.  These are but
sheep.  What have they done?  Let your hand fall upon me and my family"
(2 Sam. 24:17).
"To the woman he said, 'I will greatly increase your pains in
childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children" (Gen. 3:16).
 Also note Joshua 7:24-26.

HE PUNISHES CHILDREN FOR THEIR FATHERS' SINS

"...visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon
the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation"
(Ex. 34:7).
"...for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of
the fathers upon the children unto the 3rd and 4th generation of them
that hate me...." (Ex. 20:5, Deut. 5:9).
"It came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in
the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne
unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the
firstborn of cattle" (Ex. 12:29).
 See also: Deut. 23:2, Num. 14:33, Gen. 17:14, and Gen. 9:22-25.

HE PREVENTS PEOPLE FROM HEARING HIS WORDS

"Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and
close their eyes.  Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with
their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed" (Isa.
6:10).
"So you see God is kind to some just because he wants to be, and he
makes some refuse to listen" (Rom. 9:18).
"This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not
see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.  In them is
fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: You will be ever hearing but never
understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving" (Matt.
13:13-14).
 See also: John 12:39-40, Mark 4:10-12, and Luke 8:9-10.

HE SUPPORTS HUMAN SACRIFICE

 Ex. 22:29-30 says,
"Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats.  You must
give me the firstborn of your sons.  Do the same with your cattle and
your sheep.  Let them stay with their mothers for 7 days, but give them
to me on the 8th day."
 And Lev. 27:28-29 says,
"Nothing that a man owns and devotes to the Lord--whether man or animal
or family land--may be sold or redeemed; everything so devoted is most
holy to the Lord.  No person devoted to destruction may be ransomed; he
must be put to death."
 He also permitted human sacrifice according to Ezek. 20:26, which
says,
"I let them become defiled through their gifts--the sacrifice of every
firstborn--that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I
am the Lord."

HE ORDERS CANNIBALISM

 Lev. 26:29 says,
"Ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughter
shall ye eat."
 Jer. 19:9 says,
"I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they
will eat one another's flesh during the stress of the siege imposed on
them by the enemies who seek their lives."
 Ezek. 5:10 says,
"In your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat
their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all
your survivors to the winds."
 Isaiah 49:26 says,
"I will make your oppressors eat their own flesh; they will be drunk on
their own blood, as with wine...."
 And in John 6:53-54 Jesus says,
"I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and
drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and
drinks my blood has eternal life...."

HE DEMANDED 16,000 VIRGINS BE GIVEN TO SOLDIERS AS WAR PLUNDER AND 32 BE
SET ASIDE FOR HIMSELF

 Num. 31:31-40 says,
"Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses.  The
plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000
sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 women who had never
slept with a man....  And the half, the portion of those who had gone
out to war, was....16,000 people, of which the tribute for the Lord was
32."
 Women rank right up there with cattle, donkeys, and sheep.  And they
have to be virgins, at that!  Imagine a righteous and perfect God
wanting 32 virgins to be set aside for himself!

HE ORDERS GAMBLING

 Joshua 14:2 says,
"Their inheritances were assigned by lot to the nine-and-a-half tribes,
as the Lord had commanded through Moses."
 Num. 26:52-56 says,
"The Lord said to Moses, The land is to be allotted to them as an
inheritance based on the number of names....  Be sure that the land is
distributed by lot....  Each inheritance is to be distributed by lot
among the larger and smaller groups."

HE REQUIRES AN UNBETROTHED VIRGIN TO MARRY HER SEDUCER

 Ex. 22:16 says,
"If a man seduces a virgin who is not pledged to be married and sleeps
with her, he must pay the bride-price, and she shall be his wife."

HE ORDERS HORSES TO BE HAMSTRUNG

 Joshua 11:6 says,
"The Lord said to Joshua,...You are to hamstring their horses and burn
their chariots."

HE SANCTIONS THE DEGRADATION OF THE ENEMIES' WOMEN

 Deut. 21:10-13 says,
"When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord you God delivers
them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the
captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as
your wife....  After she has lived in your house and mourned her father
and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband
and she shall be your wife."

HE SANCTIONS THE BEATING OF SLAVES AS LONG AS THE SLAVE CAN ARISE AT
LEAST A DAY OR TWO AFTER THE BEATING

 Ex. 21:20-21 says,
"If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies
as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if
the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property."

HE REQUIRES A WOMAN TO MARRY HER RAPIST

 Deut. 22:28-29 says,
"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and
rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty
shekels of silver.  He must marry the girl, for he has violated her.  He
can never divorce her as long as he lives."

HE TRAINS OTHERS FOR WAR

 Psalm 144:1 says,
"Praise be to the Lord, my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my
fingers for battle."

HE ORDERED THE COOKING OF FOOD WITH HUMAN FECES

 Ezek. 4:12 says,
"Eat the food as you would a barley cake; bake it in the sight of the
people, using human excrement as fuel."

HE KILLED THE WICKED AND THE RIGHTEOUS

 Ezek. 21:3-4 says,
"...This is what the Lord says: I am against you.  I will draw my sword
from its scabbard and cut off from you both the righteous and the
wicked.  Because I am going to cut off the righteous and the wicked, my
sword will be unsheathed against everyone from south to north."

HE INTENTIONALLY GAVE OUT BAD LAWS

 Ezek. 20:25 says,
"I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they
could not live by...."

HE EXCUSED THE SINS OF PROSTITUTES AND ADULTERERS

 Hosea 4:14 says,
"I will not punish your daughters when they turn to prostitution, nor
your daughters-in-law when they commit adultery, because the men
themselves consort with harlots and sacrifice with temple
prostitutes...."

HE EXCUSED A MURDERER AND PROMISED HIM PROTECTION

 After Cain killed Abel he was banished from the Garden of Eden and the
following dialogue occurred within Gen. 4:13-15.
"Cain said to the Lord, 'My punishment is more than I can bear.  Today
you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your
presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds
me will kill me.'  But the Lord said to him, 'Not so; if anyone kills
Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over.'  Then the Lord put a
mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him."

HE KILLED A MAN WHO REFUSED TO IMPREGNATE HIS WIDOWED SISTER-IN-LAW

 Gen. 38:8-10 says,
"Then Judah said to Onan, 'Lie with your brother's wife and fulfill
your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your
brother.'  But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so
whenever he lay with his brother's wife, he spilled his seed on the
ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother.  What he did
was wicked in the Lord's sight; so he put him to death also."

HE AIDED RATHER THAN PUNISHED A SWINDLER

 In Gen. 28:14-15 God promised Jacob that his descendants would be like
the dust of the earth and all the families of the earth would be blessed
by him and his descendants.  God also said he would watch over Jacob
wherever he went and would not leave him.  Yet, Jacob was the swindler
who stole the birthright of his brother, Esau.

HE DOESN'T SEE ALL

 Gen. 4:14 says,
"Today you (God--Ed.) are driving me (Adam--Ed.) from the land, and I
will be hidden from your presence."

HE IS INDECISIVE

 In Gen. 18:17 the Lord says,
"Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?"

HE DISCOVERS WOMEN'S SECRET PARTS

 Isaiah 3:17 says,
"the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters
of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts."

HE BREAKS UP FAMILIES

 Ex. 21:2-4 says,
"If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years.  But in
the 7th year, he shall go free....  If his master gives him a wife and
she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong
to her master, and only the man shall go free."

HE ORDERS THE KILLING OF CHILDREN

 Ezek. 9:6 says,
"Slay utterly old and young, both maids and little children, and
women...."
 and 1 Sam. 15:3 says,
"...slay both man and woman, infant and suckling...."

HE KILLED OVER 50,000 PEOPLE BECAUSE A FEW LOOKED INTO AN ARK

 1 Sam. 6:19 says,
"the Lord smote the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into
the Ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people 50,070: and the people
lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great
slaughter."

HE MANDATED UNLIMITED PUNISHMENT FOR LIMITED SINS

 Matt. 25:46 says,
"these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous
into life eternal."
 Also note Rev. 14:11 and Mark 9:43-48.

AND LASTLY, HE VIOLATED HIS OWN LAWS ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS

 (1) In Ex. 20:13 he said thou shalt not kill; yet, in Deut. 32:39 and
many other verses he said,
"I kill, and I make alive; I wound and I heal...."
 (2) John 4:8 and 4:16 say God is love and 1 Cor. 13:4 says love is not
jealous or boastful.  Yet, Deut. 4:24 says God is a consuming fire, even
a jealous God.  How can God be jealous when several verses say God is
love and 1 Cor. says love is not jealous?
 (3) In the Ten Commandments God says thou shalt not commit adultery;
yet, Matt. 1:18 says,
"This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about.  His mother Mary was
pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was
found to be with child through the Holy Ghost.  Because Joseph her
husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public
disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly."
 The Holy Ghost, who is God, impregnated another being's wife.  If that
is not adultery, what is it?
 (4) In Lev. 19:18 God says,
"you shall not take vengeance or bear any grudge against the sons of
your own people...."
 Yet, in Deut. 32:35 God says,
"To me belongs vengeance, and recompense."
 God rules out taking vengeance by others, but relegates it to himself.

 (5) In Luke 6:27 God tells us to love our enemies and do good to those
who hate you.  Yet, in Gen. 19:24 he rained fire and brimstone upon
Sodom and Gomorrah because they had rejected him.
 (6) Prov. 6:16 says,
"there are 6 things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him"
 and the 19th verse says one of these is,
"...a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up
dissension among brothers."
 Yet, Gen. 11:9 says,
"That is why it was called Babel--because there the Lord confused the
language of the whole world."
 The Lord hates those who sow dissension even though he is responsible
for all the confusion that emerged from his creation of a multitude of
languages.
 (7) In Matt. 26:52 Jesus said,
"Put up thy sword...for all they that take the sword shall perish with
the sword."
 Yet, in Ezek. 21:5 God says,
"Then all the people will know that I the Lord have drawn my sword from
its scabbard; it will not return again."
 If what Jesus said is true, why has the Lord not perished?
 ( Deut. 6:16 says,
"Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God,"
 while Gen. 22:1 says,
"it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham...."
 God tells us not to tempt, but he does.
 (9) In First John 2:15 we are told not to love the world, neither the
things that are in the world.  If any man loves the world, the love of
the Father is not in him.  Yet, John 3:16 says,
"God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life."
 We are not supposed to love the world, but God sure does.
 (10) And finally, Job 5:2 says,
"For wrath kills the foolish man, and envy slays the silly one."
 Displaying wrath is to be considered anathema; yet Psalm 21:9
("...the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall
devour them"),
Ex. 31:10 ("...let me alone that my wrath may wax hot against them"),
and
Num. 16:46 ("...for there is wrath gone out from the Lord") clearly
show wrath is one of the Lord's more prominent traits.

CONCLUSION

         The obvious conclusion to be drawn from all of the above is
that God strongly adheres to the maxim, "Do as I say, not as I do,"
which parents are often condemned for practicing.

In sum and substance, the last six commentaries have proved beyond any
reasonable doubt that the biblical God is one of the most reprehensible
characters to have ever appeared in the annals of literature.

One can readily understand why Robert Ingersoll said on page 237 in
Volume 2 of his Works, "It is impossible for me to conceive of a
character more utterly detestable than that of the Hebrew god."  Two
pages later he said, "It is impossible to conceive of a more thoroughly
despicable, hateful, and arrogant being, ...."  And in *Some Mistakes of
Moses* he said, "A false friend, an unjust judge, a braggart, a
hypocrite, a tyrant, sincere in hatred, jealous, vain and revengeful,
false in promise, honest in curse, suspicious, ignorant, infamous and
hideous--such is the God of the Pentateuch."

And finally, after reading the last six commentaries can you imagine
anyone, any being, saying, "Yes, that's my book, that represents me,
that's the way I am," especially a supposedly perfect being?  Is there
any figure in history with a worse record, including Adolph Hitler and
Ghenghis Khan?  The Devil comes out of the Bible looking much better
than any alleged God.  You would almost think the book was written by
the Devil about an alleged God.  Biblicists contend that atheists and
those of a similar persuasion are gambling with their future and fate by
not believing in a supreme being, when they are the ones engaged in a
tremendous wager.  The Bible portrays God in a manner that can only be
described as appalling.  And yet they are telling people it is His
word.  One can only imagine the horrible fate that awaits them when God
is finally given an opportunity to even the score for their blasphemous
portrayal of His alleged words and deeds."

[timmerdogg]

I didnt take the time to read all of it but i scimmed it a little and from i see it is bits and pieces of verses taken out of context and trying to make God look bad. Anyone can come up with ways to bring everything to falsehood. You just put bits and pieces of different things together and try to make it look as bad as possible.
   Sin is within all of us. Jesus died for those sins so that we will be saved if we follow him and obey his commands. He died as the ultimate sacrifice so that we could be saved. EVERYONE has sin but if you accept Jesus into your heart then he cleanses us and saves us from hell. All we need to do is repent when we have sinned and ask for forgivness, when we are christians. We also have to turn from our evil ways and not go back to doing them. God does have mercy. He wants everyone to be in heaven with him but those that will not accept his free gift of salvation condem themselves to hell. Reincarnation was never a part of christianity! How can you not believe in sin. Dont you know what is right and wrong? Are you saying having sex with a slut off the street is not sin? Is it wrong? YES, so it is sin.

[GTP]

Timmerdogg:I commend you for clearing up all that non-sense about the Bible/Christianity and for standing up for what you believe in. That stuff he posted is perfect example of taking verses out of context. You obviously understand Christianity and are a true Christian. No offense to you clover, but it is wrong of you to try to tear apart someone's beliefs or try to turn them away from a belief by posting mis-information. If you don't agree with Christianity or don't like it, then all you need do is say so and that would be cool.

[strwrs_guru]

no leaf clover...........way to go! that was extremely impressive and well researched. yes in some instances you were taking some things out of context but you do apparently know your subject matter. []

and to timmerdogg, yes it is understandable to stand up for what you believe in, but at the same time use your intelligence. to just blindly follow something is foolish. i am a christian also and was where you are at a few years ago. the contradictions in the bible affected me greatly and i started to research the subjects. i talked to various religions pastors, i read numerous books on the histories of the periods and archeological findings, looked into the dead sea scrolls, etc. and it has all led me to the here and now that shows me nobody, and i mean nobody has any significant answers and or proof about the bibles claims. everything came down to sombodys opinion and personal strength of belief. it is just too hard to put my faith in a god that puts us here and then tells us no to everything. we cant do this, we cant do that, we cant indulge ourselves in anything or it is being unspiritual. which means automatic sin. well screw that. we are fallable and sinful.(by the great love of god)  we are blamed not only for our own sins but for the sins of our fathers. what kind of crappy deal is that? its like He is making sure that we are going to be sinful for something and have no choice but to turn to him for forgiveness. well what about us forgiving Him? picking a certain race of people over others, letting our little children get cancer or even kidnapped ands raped and killed by some depraved sicko, and other atrocities like those. how about a life filled with the worship and love and devotion to god and then you get to spend your last years on this earth while your body breaks down, you cant remember any of your loved ones, you are crapping all over yourself, and you cant even have the dignity of enjoying your retirement years because all your money is going to the upkeep of yourself so you dont croak. where is this loving god that i keep hearing about? because i sure dont see him! i see this big neutral being that cares about as much for me as he does the slime slug that lives at the bottom of the ocean.

[strwrs_guru]

and again well done no leaf clover. i think i am going to print that out and start carrying it around with me to wake people up.

[GTP]

The Bible has a lot of sybolism and is not meant to be picked apart like that. The new testament is what we are to focus on, some things from the old testament don't even apply to us now days. (Otherwise we would still be sacraficing live lambs!)[xx(] The basic message of the Bible is that God intended for us to have free will, (which is why He doesn't give us proof of His existance, He didn't want robots.

Adam and Eve screwed up, there original sin was carried through all generations, (we can pout and whine but that's just how it is). Now sin is in our nature. (look at the state of the world today, violence, selfishness, no morals, greed, all kinds of evil, and it's getting worse, Biblical prophesies are coming true.)

But there is good news. God, this unfathomably powerful force, became one of his creations and suffered a horrible death on the cross as a ransom for our sin because He loved us so much! All we have to do is have faith that this is true, to understand we are sinners, and to ask forgiveness. If we do this we will be with Him and have everlasting life. If we reject this wonderful gift, we will go to Hell. That's just how it is.

That is the basic message, I know it raises many questions and you can have many of them answered if you show some interest by actually studying the Bible. There are study guides, books, Christian forums, etc.

I know there are extremests out there that do give us Christians a bad rep, but we are all not like that, thankfully.[8D]