Help for a beginer, how do you dreamwalk?

[Naykid]

Hey Nay, don't ever run yourself down. You're doing just fine.

It is possible. I've done it.

Thank you CM, I really do appreciate that. 

[catmeow]

No worries Nay.

He would get so upset if someone thought different and he used his mod status to silence others.

Bang on the money. That's how I see it too I'm afraid.

[Xanth]

All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.

[personalreality]

i feel similar Nay.  When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the feelings I get from those experiences.  I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.

[Xanth]

i feel similar Nay.  When it comes down to it, the only thing I can really know is my experience (whether or not that fits into the mold of what is real or not is irrelevant to me) and the
feelings I get from those experiences.  I am curious about the nature of the experience, but that doesn't make me question it's validity.

I agree completely that the only thing that really matters is your own experience.  I certainly DO NOT question that... and I'd even be foolish to do so.
Your experience is your experience... how you interpret it is also your own.  Nobody can change that.

I'm not trying to fit your experience into my mold for YOUR benefit... I'm doing it entirely for MY own benefit.
I'm not trying to change anyone's beliefs with my conclusion... I'm attempting to reinforce my own.  

Also, me doing this doesn't question the validity of it, in even the slightest.  As I said, it still remains YOUR own experience.
What you learned from it is still 100% valid and real.

EDIT:  I wanted to add something to this post of mine as well...
I speak my mind about my own beliefs in this manner not just to the benefit of myself.  There are others out there who have the same or similar beliefs to mine and I do it for them too.  So that they can read someone's experiences and then read my alternative explanation and see what fits their model better... to see if it reinforces their beliefs too.

[catmeow]

All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.

Oh it's not a matter of seeing what I want to see.  I'm much more objective than that, please don't suggest you know my mental processes better than I do.  I was there when Frank deleted people's posts if he disagreed with them.  You didn't see that.  I was involved in the discussions where people suggested they were literally afraid of saying what they felt because old grumpy Frank might delete their posts or even delete their ID.  He was a bully and misused his mod status. And I speak from experience.  What are your qualifications?

[Naykid]

All I can say is that the only thing you're seeing is exactly what you want to see.
Look beyond that and I'm sure you'll begin to see the trees for the forest.

You did it again.  Did you see that?

Lordy Ryan, get a grip on yourself.  Let's just go our separate ways and realize that we are living in different forests.  

[Naykid]

Oh it's not a matter of seeing what I want to see.  I'm much more objective than that, please don't suggest you know my mental processes better than I do.  I was there when Frank deleted people's posts if he disagreed with them.  You didn't see that.  I was involved in the discussions where people suggested they were literally afraid of saying what they felt because old grumpy Frank might delete their posts or even delete their ID.  He was a bully and misused his mod status. And I speak from experience.  What are your qualifications?

Agreed.  I was a moderator, so I was seeing it from the inside.  I don't want to turn this into a bashing Frank thing either, but Xanth you need to stop acting like you knew what really went on just because you read some articles written by Frank.  There were two sides to Frank, period.

Ok, onward and upward.   

[catmeow]

I agree with Nay. I really don't want to speak ill of someone when they are not here to defend themselves. So I will bow out of the Frank bashing now.

[Xanth]

Agreed.  I was a moderator, so I was seeing it from the inside.  I don't want to turn this into a bashing Frank thing either, but Xanth you need to stop acting like you knew what really went on just because you read some articles written by Frank.  There were two sides to Frank, period.

Ok, onward and upward.  

All I can say is that I *have* read every word that he's ever written that is still available on the Astral Pulse.
And I can only base a judgment around that.  And what I've read is that you're being a little too judgmental about him.

I really am sorry, but I simply can not take just your word for it, I need more proof than "because I said so" in this.  
The proof I've read is quite contrary to what your 'remembered' experience is... I hope you understand.  

Even if he wasn't a 'perfect' person... who is really?
What's the saying?  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
I like what the guy had to say about Astral Projection.  He's helped me a lot... he's helped TONNES of people a lot.  'Nuff said.

Although I do HIGHLY suggest you try to move past your... anger? ... towards him.  Regardless of his actions, as I said, he's helped a lot of people to Project.  Forgiveness, perhaps? 

[blis]

In reading this debate I realised something about myself.

I sometimes felt an undefined emotion that I didnt like when reading some of Xanth's posts where he stated certain opinions as fact. When experienceing this, my instinct was trying to blame the unpleasant emotion on Xanth as if he had done something wrong, but at the same time my intelect was saying he's decent guy who tries to help people and is just expressing his opinion.

I've realised that my problem was in the level of confidence he had in his opinions. If they dissagreed with what I thought, I (without realising it) felt like he was unequivacally telling me my beliefs were wrong;  something that would get most peoples backs up. He was, of course, not saying any such thing; he was just confidently expressing his opinion.

I now realise that it might often be the case that when I have a problem with a particularly confident person, the problem is with me and not them.

(Sorry for taklling about you in the third person Xanth. It was a toss up between third person which is rude or adressing you directly which might have seemed confrontational until you realised I wasnt actually having a go at you.)

[Naykid]

What is wrong with you?  Are you telling me now that I don't remember my relationship with Frank?  That I've mistaken what happened?  Are you telling me that I don't even know my OWN reality in the PHYSICAL?   I can't believe what I'm reading.  Unless you are actually Frank, then you have no idea of the hours we spent chatting back and forth and what transpired during those times.   And if you are Frank, then Frank, you need to slap yourself for being a buttwipe and liar.

I can't believe the arrogance that you are showing right now....  I can't believe you are actually trying to MOLD my past relationship with someone who've never even met.  Unbelievable.  I'm almost a lost for words.  Almost.  Please show me where I said people are perfect?  And when did I say he hasn't helped anyone?  And I'm not asking you to take anything, I'm telling you how it was.  The fact that your hero wasn't exactly what you thought is not my problem, you telling me I don't even know my own life is insulting and ticking me off.  I got over my anger with Frank years ago.  I was more hurt than angry, but I really shouldn't have to sit here and explain my private feelings to you, but for some reason you have a God complex going on and need to wave your ego in my face.  

I HIGHLY suggest that YOU take a look at yourself and step back before you make a bigger fool of yourself than you are right now.  So, you gonna pull a Frank and delete my words, lock the thread, what?  

If you aren't Frank you're doing a damn well job in acting like his less than kind side.  

Unfrigginbelievable.

[Naykid]

In reading this debate I realised something about myself.

I sometimes felt an undefined emotion that I didnt like when reading some of Xanth's posts where he stated certain opinions as fact. When experienceing this, my instinct was trying to blame the unpleasant emotion on Xanth as if he had done something wrong, but at the same time my intelect was saying he's decent guy who tries to help people and is just expressing his opinion.

I've realised that my problem was in the level of confidence he had in his opinions. If they dissagreed with what I thought, I (without realising it) felt like he was unequivacally telling me my beliefs were wrong;  something that would get most peoples backs up. He was, of course, not saying any such thing; he was just confidently expressing his opinion.

I now realise that it might often be the case that when I have a problem with a particularly confident person, the problem is with me and not them.

(Sorry for taklling about you in the third person Xanth. It was a toss up between third person which is rude or adressing you directly which might have seemed confrontational until you realised I wasnt actually having a go at you.)

This is a different scenario.  Ryan is telling me I don't know the facts of my own past.  Give me a break. 

[Xanth]

*facepalms at Nay*
You might want to re-read my post, Nay.
I said nothing of the kind.

And thank you Blis for the kind words.
You are spot on.

[blis]

This is a different scenario.  Ryan is telling me I don't know the facts of my own past.  Give me a break. 

I'm not having a go at you. Sorry if it came across that way. I honestly did just realise that about myself.

[Naykid]

*facepalms* Really?  That's all you got?  Explain your arrogance and knowledge of my past.  

[Xanth]

Sorry Nay, but I'm done here.

You're just plainly looking for a fight now.

Bye.

[Naykid]

*facepalms at Nay*
You might want to re-read my post, Nay.
I said nothing of the kind.

And thank you Blis for the kind words.
You are spot on.

I know I have a learning disability but I'm not retarded, thanks.  If you weren't telling me that I didn't know my past with Frank, then please, enlighten me.

[Naykid]

Sorry Nay, but I'm done here.

You're just plainly looking for a fight now.

Bye.

  OMG..  you are something else, you know that?  You are done, because you can't explain yourself without looking like a fool.

[catmeow]

ll I can say is that I *have* read every word that he's ever written that is still available on the Astral Pulse.
And I can only base a judgment around that.

Incorrect. You haven't read every word, far from it. You are not privvy to the numerous PMs. THAT is the crucial point. Others on this board are informing you. But you have a problem with the information. It doesn't compute!

I really am sorry, but I simply can not take just your word for it, I need more proof than "because I said so" in this.

We are not offering proof. We are offering information, which because it differs from your world view must somehow be mis-remembered.

The proof I've read is quite contrary to what your 'remembered' experience is... I hope you understand.

Nope, I don't understand.  Italicising 'remembered' is really quite offensive. This really is the icing on the cake. I don't think this was directed at me, but I found it offensive on behalf of Nay. If it was directed at me, then you are simply wrong.  I have a good memory.

Although I do HIGHLY suggest you try to move past your... anger? ... towards him.

Personally I can say hand on heart I have no anger whatsoever directed towards Frank. But curiously I hold the same opinion of him as Nay.

I agree completely that the only thing that really matters is your own experience.  I certainly DO NOT question that... and I'd even be foolish to do so.

Well that is exactly what you are doing, questioning others' experience and then trying to suggest that their own memories are wrong. Are you therefore not foolish?  I think you are so totally busted by your own remark here.

[Xanth]

I'm sorry ladies...
Can we just agree to disagree and leave it at that, please?

And Noy... Jerry can go find his own forums. 

[Stookie]

You're making the mistake that most people make when confronting someone with a very strong belief that what they believe is right.
It's not arrogance, it's confidence.  Why does that anger you?
I loved the fact that he was straightforward and always "to-the-point".

Huh, that sounds familiar... oh yeah - that's the exact same thing I was saying about Selea before. I miss her comments.

I recently was going through Frank's old posts and here's something I noticed that was pretty clear. I wasn't around enough before hand to notice it:

In a lot of Frank's earlier posts, he is very mystical. He talks about chakras and energy and a lot of it sounds fairly new-age. Later, as Robert Bruce started becoming more popular and there was much more being spoken of in regards to energy work and chakras on the forum, is when Frank suddenly change his tune. While he acknowledged that there are chakras and they have certain functions, he didn't want to talk about them anymore and regarded them as mystical jibberjabber. I think it's more than possible that he wanted to offer something different than everyone else, he didn't want to be like Bruce and wanted his own teachings that were very different, and ended up telling everyone that what Bruce was teaching was wrong, when I'm not sure that was his real belief on a lot of the matters. In his later days if you asked him about chakras he would blow it off as new-age nonsense. But I KNOW he knew they were fact.

I didn't come around until the end of Frank's time, and his phasing techniques are good stuff, but I'm unsure of all his intentions, especially regarding energy work, as that was Bruce's forte. I still do a lot of energy work and am sure there is something to it. Frank called it a waste.

[Xanth]

Huh, that sounds familiar... oh yeah - that's the exact same thing I was saying about Selea before. I miss her comments.

The difference is that she laughed at people's opinions/beliefs and flat out called them wrong.
I believe I've never seen anything to that degree in the 2000+ posts of his on the forums... nor those in the moderators section either.
I obviously can't speak about personal PM's.
In the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree about it.

Selea is also always welcome to post.
The choice is hers to not stop posting... I enjoyed a good chunk of what she had to say.

I recently was going through Frank's old posts and here's something I noticed that was pretty clear. I wasn't around enough before hand to notice it:

In a lot of Frank's earlier posts, he is very mystical. He talks about chakras and energy and a lot of it sounds fairly new-age. Later, as Robert Bruce started becoming more popular and there was much more being spoken of in regards to energy work and chakras on the forum, is when Frank suddenly change his tune. While he acknowledged that there are chakras and they have certain functions, he didn't want to talk about them anymore and regarded them as mystical jibberjabber. I think it's more than possible that he wanted to offer something different than everyone else, he didn't want to be like Bruce and wanted his own teachings that were very different, and ended up telling everyone that what Bruce was teaching was wrong, when I'm not sure that was his real belief on a lot of the matters. In his later days if you asked him about chakras he would blow it off as new-age nonsense. But I KNOW he knew they were fact.

I didn't come around until the end of Frank's time, and his phasing techniques are good stuff, but I'm unsure of all his intentions, especially regarding energy work, as that was Bruce's forte. I still do a lot of energy work and am sure there is something to it. Frank called it a waste.

I definitely noticed his progression through the 3 - 4 years he posted here.  It was very clear that he started off a bit more accepting of the mystical-ways than he was in the end.  I see that as personal growth, really.
In one instance back in 2002 - 03 he referred to the astral as a the "training grounds"... then you can see him move away from it as he progressed beyond thinking it was a mere training ground and realized what it actually was.
And the chakra thing as well that you mention, Stookie.

Nay and catmeow call him rude and arrogant.  That's cool... it's entirely their prerogative to not like someone... and furthermore to not like the message that person is trying to convey because of it.  On the flip side, I'm also free to disagree with their opinion.  BUT NOTE: I'm *NOT* calling their opinion wrong... I'm saying I simply DISAGREE with them.

Except for extreme cases, I never have and never will say that someone's opinion is WRONG.  EVER.
And this goes right back to what Blis said.  Again, Blis, SPOT ON. 

The way I see it is that I couldn't care less what his character was.  I mean, as long as he wasn't a murderer or something worse (obviously we have no way of knowing), what he taught is all I give a crap about regarding the man.
So regardless, I'm going to take everything that he left behind and choose to learn from it.

[personalreality]

We need a new frank.

I'll be the new frank, Jedi Master of Meaningless BS!  That's what you can call me.

I"ll expect a pdf of all my posts in the permanent astral topics forum post haste ryan.

[Xanth]

We need a new frank.

I'll be the new frank, Jedi Master of Meaningless BS!  That's what you can call me.

I"ll expect a pdf of all my posts in the permanent astral topics forum post haste ryan.

Well hell, I apparently already worship you anyways!

Consider it done!