carnivores: old topic new(ish) thoughts

[Alaskans]

<For easy archive searching= energy food energy diet vegan vegan vegitarian vegitarian eating meat eating diet ethics animal cruelty >

Edit: Oh wait, I forgot one!
*Maybe eating plants are bennificial to spiritual growth because they are just better for you, as they have more vitamins and minerals. Um yeah, sorry, thats it, case closed... what a waste of pixels... well read on if you wish.



First of all, banish all feeling you or anyone else has about eating animal products, to make way for level-headed logic.

I havent been given a good reason for the whole go vegan thing. Why is eating plants considered more bennificial to spiritual growth?

I'm not saying it doesnt, but why would it? This topic seems to evade logical sense.

The common comments:
*Bad karma - if, through psychic gifts, you can communicate with nature and elements, you will see that all things are living. In fact, some things which are considered to have no thoughts are more advanced than any animal, and far more advanced than humans in some areas of consciousness. Trees fear for their lives, in fact, more so than animals, due to increased awareness. This means there is no difference between killing an animal and killing a plant. If you live and dont photosynthesize then you have to kill.

*Meat decays faster - this has some credence to it but not much, when mixed with stomach acid and digestive bacteria there is little difference between meat and plant matter.

*Animal cruelty (captive animals etc)- you know mass soy production is one of the main causes of the destruction of the amazon? (I know, a terrible irony... but the truth) many plants themselves are just as mistreated as the animals (chemicals, gene alteration, captivity). But more basic than that; both plant and animal products can be bought organic and freerange. So animal cruelty really doesnt hold.


Perhaps those reasons are too shallow..
*Collective energetic opinion - could it be that the general masses have just simply decided it is worse to eat an animal than a plant, conformity is powerfull and makes people believe what is not. In deciding this has there been a mystical energy link connected to eating animal products, that has, in a way, cursed it?

*Plant life matures slower - perhaps it is only my experiences, but it seems to me that plant life tends to mature intellectually slower than some animals. A 90 year old tree seems to be somewhat like a 7-10 year old human. So going by this, crops normally grown which are often planted each year, wouldnt be quite mature enough to really know what is happening. This is my best theory, except, many animals are profoundly stupid such as sheep, who often dont have the brains to save themselves from easy to escape problems.

*"You are what you eat" - hmm I just thought this one up; perhaps we are barking up the wrong tree (hah), perhaps the reason for eating plants is not that it is 'kinder' but that plants have a higher awareness than animals, and part of that awareness is transmuted into the one who consumes it. Or in the case of pork (an animal famous for gluttony), you will begin feel more inclined to satisfy every urge that comes along. So perhaps it has nothing to do with right or wrong, but a matter of being influenced by what you eat. (Btw, it has been scientifically proven some foods such as: garlic, yellow onions, and asparagus, actually change your DNA/RNA, so the seemingly ridiculous saying "you are what you eat" is actually scientifically true, who knew )

*Abolishing earthly attachments - perhaps not eating meat only helps spiritual growth because it removes one more thing that you desire; to eat it without desiring it is the same as a vegan diet.

Personally, I dont desire to eat meat, I in no way need it, though I dont object to it (except pork..yuk  ).

I know I didnt leave a lot up to discussion, but it has all been said before. Mull this over and try to think in a new direction.

[MisterJingo]

*Animal cruelty (captive animals etc)- you know mass soy production is one of the main causes of the destruction of the amazon? (I know, a terrible irony... but the truth) many plants themselves are just as mistreated as the animals (chemicals, gene alteration, captivity). But more basic than that; both plant and animal products can be bought organic and freerange. So animal cruelty really doesnt hold.

My only argument to this is while yes, plant production can be destructive, it doesn't have to be. Whereas any form of meat consumption will always be intrinsically cruel.
It seems empathy is a desired attribute, and if one was truly empathic to life around them, the consumption of meat would weigh heavily upon them due to the suffering caused to precure it.

[Alaskans]

Yes that is the common arguement, but that does not work, I am truely empathetic. I do think about the animal, but through my experiences I know that plant life is even more aware of its mortality than animals. You cut a road through a forest and the whole forest beleives it's next, theyre actually quite the drama queens. Science also backs up this claim.

I supose this is an old hornets nest I shouldnt be stirring up, but I dont see why so many people should obsess about not eating any animal products without a true reason.

[MisterJingo]

Yes that is the common arguement, but that does not work, I am truely empathetic. I do think about the animal, but through my experiences I know that plant life is even more aware of its mortality than animals. You cut a road through a forest and the whole forest beleives it's next, theyre actually quite the drama queens. Science also backs up this claim.

I supose this is an old hornets nest I shouldnt be stirring up, but I dont see why people should obsess about not eating any animal products.

But the above is a matter of opinion. Personifying plant matter does not give it the same awareness as humans. In a biological sense, a nervous system is needed to suffer, and specific emotions are the products of various neurotransmitters. As planets don't have either, and the fact that the vast majority of plants we eat have evolved to be eaten as a way of scattering their offspring. Eating a plant is definitely a lot less
Morally wrong than eating an animal, in fact, if a plant has evolved to be eaten as a method or propagation, it could be considered morally right.
Regarding emotions, there is a tendency to project what we experience onto others and even into the astral itself. We can't truly know if emotions experienced in the astral are just echoes of learnt responses from physical life – such as maintain a sex or human body shape are. Perhaps in the furthest astral, away from the human belief systems, emotions are gone and consciousness just is. But this is another discussion entirely.

[Alaskans]

Cant sleep  so I'll have the zombie smash something out on the keyboard. You do however make some interesting points there (if I had a brain right now I would be glad I got to use it.) I'm sorry there was some bad mojo, I removed it.

You are correct there is a lot of noise in the astral reguarding nature. Much of it I think was created by people stuck in the city. Some are pretty convincing currents that will take you a long way from the truth. You have to learn to stay away from them.

Nearly all of the stimulus taken in by intellegent plantlife is energetic (energy), and energy bodies can be hurt, although the pain is trivial in comparison to physical pain (well in MY experience). So yes they can feel, but less so than animals.

I've never made a connection with a small plant (no, not even weed), but I have had unintentional experiences with thier large counterparts, and the conciousness was unmistakable. Also, your forgetting every cell has intellegence (exept for the ones in my head  ).


But, your right, many plant foods were MEANT to be eaten, this coupled with the ability to give you superhuman powers (well thats what mom tells me) is a convincing argument for fruits an vegtables, two more than eating meat has.

[Stookie]

One thing that makes meat easy to eat is that for the majority of us, we're not doing the killing. If I had to kill a cow to eat a cheeseburger, I might switch to eating salad on a more regular basis. But fortunately for me, I can pull up to a menu in my car, roll down the window, and simply asked for a pre-killed cow sandwhich, no guilt involved. It was dead before I got there.

(I'm playing devil's advocate, though I do like a good cheeseburger)

[Alaskans]

Heyyy stookie  coming back to this site is like a family reuinion (with everyone being late and just showing up)
I must warn you I'm not much like I used to be, but then, who is 

[CFTraveler]

A couple of comments: First, I do eat meat, but have been an on-and off vegetarian for most of my life.  So I see everyone's point.
Some comments:  There have been experiments done on galvanic skin response on plants (done by the guy who discovered/invented the process, whose name escapes me), in which there was a sharp change in reading when the experimenter spoke or thought about pruning said plant.  So it appears that there is some sort of reaction to the thought of doing violence against the plant.  I would go as far as to deduce from that, given the readings to be correct, that plants don't like to be pruned, even if it's for their own good.
Yes, some plant matter is meant to be consumed, such as fruits and seeds, some of which will not germinate if they don't pass through the digestive tract of small animals.  So if you're going to eat vegan to avoid cruelty, fruits, seeds and nuts are the way to go.
I think that keeping a cow for its milk is probably more productive than killing it for it's meat.  But I'm sure someone will come up with facts disabusing me of that notion....
When I was young my brother got an easter chickie (you know how they dye their down and they're so cute) from the county fair.  We had the bad idea to keep it and watch it grow.  I can testify that chickens are the stupidest creatures alive.  I will not say any more grisly details, but after having one, I don't feel (too) bad about eating them.
Loose incoherent thoughts, I know.... I just woke up from a nap.

[Vvid1012]

I agree that killing either for food is morally acceptable...unless you are killing more than you need.

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is...if you are what you eat, do you really want to eat the dumbest animal around...perhaps this is why some cultures eat dog

[Astir]

Some comments:  There have been experiments done on galvanic skin response on plants (done by the guy who discovered/invented the process, whose name escapes me), in which there was a sharp change in reading when the experimenter spoke or thought about pruning said plant.  So it appears that there is some sort of reaction to the thought of doing violence against the plant.  I would go as far as to deduce from that, given the readings to be correct, that plants don't like to be pruned, even if it's for their own good.

Similar or the same content: The Secret Life of Plants by Peter Tompkins and Christopher Bird.

[MisterJingo]

Some comments:  There have been experiments done on galvanic skin response on plants (done by the guy who discovered/invented the process, whose name escapes me), in which there was a sharp change in reading when the experimenter spoke or thought about pruning said plant.  So it appears that there is some sort of reaction to the thought of doing violence against the plant.  I would go as far as to deduce from that, given the readings to be correct, that plants don't like to be pruned, even if it's for their own good.

I know not a journaled source, but these experiments were recreated on a TV show called myth busters to stringent scientific standards (they used various plants as well as other biological mater such as yogurt cultures). Their experiments didn't see any response from the plants in any of the experiments. At first there was seeming response to certain stimulus, but it was discovered that this was due to vibration and so they put the plants into a sealed room and no response was noted.
This makes me slightly dubious of the originals findings. lol, I know, playing the cynic again :p

[Alaskans]

When did they do that show? I'm a fan. Must have been a recent episode. Unfortunately the mythbusters often overlook small but very important details that greatly change the outcome. Such as when they tested the myth about the jet airplane blowing a truck off a nearby highway. For a vehicle they chose a neon, one of the most aerodynamic vehicles. They kept upgrading the jets they were blowing on it and wondering why the car wasnt taking off flying (even though the paint was peeling), I just shook my head. They were unable to replicate it even though they had a video of a truck being being blown off the road by a jet plane. There is quite a few episodes like that.
There could be many small but important reasons they failed to reproduce the results, its a lot more delicate experiment to give yogurt a lie detector test than to blow a car over.

I'm really pleased with this thread, everyones more insightfull and less opinionated than I expected.

[MisterJingo]

When did they do that show? I'm a fan. Must have been a recent episode.

I'm not too sure when it was. I usually catch them on Bravo (uk) and it was during the most recent series I think.

Unfortunately the mythbusters often overlook small but very important details that greatly change the outcome. Such as when they tested the myth about the jet airplane blowing a truck off a nearby highway. For a vehicle they chose a neon, one of the most aerodynamic vehicles. They kept upgrading the jets they were blowing on it and wondering why the car wasnt taking off flying (even though the paint was peeling), I just shook my head. They were unable to replicate it even though they had a video of a truck being being blown off the road by a jet plane. There is quite a few episodes like that.
There could be many small but important reasons they failed to reproduce the results, its a lot more delicate experiment to give yogurt a lie detector test than to blow a car over.

Thinking about it, they actually conducted a series of experiments. The yoghurt experiment involved removing parts of the yoghurt culture, and then subjecting the removed culture to harmful and pleasurable conditions (such as high heat, or giving it sugar). The original culture was monitored to see if any sympathetic changes occurred. None did.
They then reproduced the plant experiment, and finally, one involving eggs. Each time the results came back negative.
In all these experiments there is definitely room for error, so their results shouldn't be taken as absolute – but it does give reason for caution about the results of the original experiments (I've been looking for successful reproduction of these experiments, but found nothing as yet).
Something I intended to mention earlier was an AP experience a long time ago. I was riding on a train, napping, and felt conditions conducive to projection. The projection itself wasn't completely immersive; I had body awareness and awareness of the astral at the same time. I was still seeing the train journey, but the trees lining the tracts had changed. They were now a pinkish colour, but rather than organic, they were crystalline. Like huge growths of vibrating crystal. It was a lot more than this – but words are a bit poor at translating such experiences. This gave me the idea that plants might have more akin with crystals than organic life forms with nervous systems.

[Selski]

At first there was seeming response to certain stimulus, but it was discovered that this was due to vibration and so they put the plants into a sealed room and no response was noted.

Hello cynic 

Interesting you mention vibration.  Perhaps everything is perceived on some vibrational level.  Our intuitions with regards to everyone/thing we come across might have its basis in vibration.  Or, another way to look at it would be to call it energy.

You must have had the experience of knowing someone is ticked off/happy/resigned/whatever just by their energy.  I don't mean you need to look at them, but simply by being close to someone, you can sense what mood they are in?

Well, if this is the case, perhaps plants/animals can do that too. 

Some animals may react when you lead them to the van that will take them to the slaughterhouse.  Vibration?  Energy? 

How come dogs know when they are on their way to the vet rather than the park when put in the car - even though being in the car more often than not means the park? (and I just read in another thread that dogs are supposed to be stupid... )   

And cats.  They know when a storm is coming.  And they sure as hell know when electric gadgets are about to blow.

However, put these animals in a sealed room and then suddenly zap them with a poisonous gas - they most likely won't show any response on a machine. 

And neither would humans.  In my opinion. 

Sarah

[Alaskans]

I was still seeing the train journey, but the trees lining the tracts had changed. They were now a pinkish colour, but rather than organic, they were crystalline. Like huge growths of vibrating crystal. It was a lot more than this – but words are a bit poor at translating such experiences. This gave me the idea that plants might have more akin with crystals than organic life forms with nervous systems.

Very cool experience. I know what you're saying. The astral more or less does mimic the physical (or visa versa). And plants dont have a known nervous system, so logically there is a pretty good chance that a nervous system wont be mimicked in the astral. But then there is many such instances of creatures and microorganisms functioning and 'thinking' without mapped out internal organs or nervous systems. Perhaps our physical forms aren't so important after all?...

Thinking about it, they actually conducted a series of experiments. The yoghurt experiment involved removing parts of the yoghurt culture, and then subjecting the removed culture to harmful and pleasurable conditions (such as high heat, or giving it sugar). The original culture was monitored to see if any sympathetic changes occurred. None did.

The problem is I dont believe the entire world is allowed to know, without a doubt, the truth. Theres never been a successfull highly publicized scientific study on the 'paranormal.' According to results there is no such thing as psychic powers, astral projection, auras, there is nothing according to them. Well, guess my life is over, might as well kill myself and fade into nonexistence... sorry I got carried away   You're only allowed as much as you can handle, correct? What would happen if all the hard nosed atheists out there were shown indisputable, impossible to deny proof of what we believe? It would be too much for them, as such, highly publicized experiments nearly always fail.

And Selski is right, the tests are always done in a way not conductive to the 'paranormal.' On top of this hot fudge sundae of orthodox sterility sprinkle a bunch of people who purposely sabotage the experiment or its results because they themselves are not able to look the truth in the face.

Im sorry, I know I totally overdid it, it's in no way directed to you MJ. Im just sorry for all those people who still dont beleive, and agitated I cant do anything about it. So much for keeping opinion out.

[MisterJingo]

The problem is I dont believe the entire world is allowed to know, without a doubt, the truth. Theres never been a successfull highly publicized scientific study on the 'paranormal.' According to results there is no such thing as psychic powers, astral projection, auras, there is nothing according to them.

There have been a lot of studies done into these areas, but people really have to dig down to find them. The problem is, such experiments done under scientific conditions return very poor results, or results which are not far from what chance would dictate.
Something to keep in mind is that science is purely a way of finding consistent  truth using unbiased methodologies. Nothing more or less. Scientists themselves might be biased, but that is a different story.

Well, guess my life is over, might as well kill myself and fade into nonexistence...

I personally believe there is equal possibility of us fading to oblivion on death as I do there is an afterlife. The possibility of  the electrons diffusing into surrounding matter and personal oblivion occurring is not a terrible thought which makes me want to give up on life, if anything, it makes me appreciate the beauty in life even more.
Regardless, oblivion or not, the pinnacle of spiritual development - returning to the source, would be no different than fading into non-existence.

sorry I got carried away  You're only allowed as much as you can handle, correct? What would happen if all the hard nosed atheists out there were shown indisputable, impossible to deny proof of what we believe? It would be too much for them, as such, highly publicized experiments nearly always fail.

What if such experiments fail not because of biasness, but because they simply fail to produce any results in an unbiased environment (unbiased from those with total belief who might be colouring the results with their desire for the results to be true).
Biased-ness stretches both ways. I've seen many people who consider themselves open-minded because they believe in energy and auras, but, they are closed minded in the respect that they won't consider the possibility that their beliefs might be wrong.
True open-mindedness is walking the line between absolute scepticism and absolute belief.

And Selski is right, the tests are always done in a way not conductive to the 'paranormal.' On top of this hot fudge sundae of orthodox sterility sprinkle a bunch of people who purposely sabotage the experiment or its results because they themselves are not able to look the truth in the face.

As above, experiments done by believers can equally be falsified and sabotaged to produce results which will reinforce their beliefs. The brain itself utilises confabulation to construct our world, this means if our belief is strong enough, we will see reinforcements for that belief anywhere and everywhere (this goes for those on both sides of the belief).
I personally don't believe there is a global conspiracy to keep truth of the paranormal from us. The world has shrunk too much, equipment which could easily validate paranormal activity can be found in near every home, and we are linked by a communication network which could get the truth out in seconds.  I find it increasingly disheartening we still do not have this proof.

Im sorry, I know I totally overdid it, it's in no way directed to you MJ. Im just sorry for all those people who still dont beleive, and agitated I cant do anything about it. So much for keeping opinion out.

Opinions are good, so don't worry about it . From the age of 16 to around 22 I was a total believer in all these things, but as I personally experienced more, researched more and read the research out there, my beliefs have been stripped away until now I sit on the line between scepticism and belief. I've experienced some amazing things, but nothing which an irrefutably justify my previous beliefs. I actually went through a very black period in which I first tasted deep depression after I took a long hard look at what I believed, and removed all the unjustified stuff. I found that a lot of my beliefs in the astral and paranormal phenomena were borrowed from authors because I wanted it to be true, and I held such beliefs as absolute. Dropping them was painful.

[Hans Solo]

Vegetarianism is NOT healthy for you!!

Look at this study:

"The vegetarians of Southern India eat a low-calorie diet very high in carbohydrates and low in protein and fat. They have the shortest life span of any society on Earth, and their bodies have an extremely low muscle mass. They are weak and frail and the children clearly exhibit a failure to thrive. Their heart disease rate is double that of the meat eaters in Northern India. HL Abrams. Vegetarianism: An anthropological/nutritional evaluation. Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980, 32:2:53-87. The optimal diet for humans can be determined by anthropological research studies that show humans have primarily been meat-eaters. Anthropological Research Reveals Human Dietary Requirements for Optimal Health   by H. Leon Abrams, Jr., MA, EDS"

BTW, Monroe called the vegetarian and low fat activist "Nurtition Nazi's" and persisted on having meat at TMI because he personally loved meat.

[MisterJingo]

Vegetarianism is NOT healthy for you!!

Look at this study:

"The vegetarians of Southern India eat a low-calorie diet very high in carbohydrates and low in protein and fat. They have the shortest life span of any society on Earth, and their bodies have an extremely low muscle mass. They are weak and frail and the children clearly exhibit a failure to thrive. Their heart disease rate is double that of the meat eaters in Northern India. HL Abrams. Vegetarianism: An anthropological/nutritional evaluation. Journal of Applied Nutrition, 1980, 32:2:53-87. The optimal diet for humans can be determined by anthropological research studies that show humans have primarily been meat-eaters. Anthropological Research Reveals Human Dietary Requirements for Optimal Health   by H. Leon Abrams, Jr., MA, EDS"

BTW, Monroe called the vegetarian and low fat activist "Nurtition Nazi's" and persisted on having meat at TMI because he personally loved meat.

The population of southern India were shown to have low iron stores, which increases the risk of heart disease greatly. The Indian population to the north had normal iron levels which explains the difference. Indians who are vegetarian and live in the US/Europe show no difference in heart disease or life span to those who eat meat. This is because they generally have a much more iron rich diet.
The study you mention is quite skewed against vegetarianism as it misinterprets why the lifespan was lower and heart disease higher (purely to do with iron - not vegetarianism or high carb intake).
I've been vegetarian for 10 years now, I give blood regulalry. If my iron levels were low they wouldn't allow me to give, and they check them before each donation. Also, i'm 14.5 stone (6'2"), go to they gym 3-4 times a week and am very healthy. A balanced diet is what it's all about (for vegetarians and meat eaters).

[Astir]

And cats.  They know when a storm is coming.  And they sure as hell know when electric gadgets are about to blow.

They especially know right before they're about to barf into them. The family cat barfed into the cable modem last month and took out both the phone line and internet. A cat we had before her barfed into the back of a TV and destroyed it. They're funny creatures. 

Oh, and I agree with what was said in your post.

[Alaskans]

I was just being sarcastic about the whole oblivion thing  I consider us still being in the womb, and 'death' is birth to me. I dont even consider our bodies as our property, we are only borrowing them from the physical universe.

I think the reason you got depressed after all that research is I dont believe it is about knowing but the journey itself. When you listen to someone explain how they perceive things to be it will stick the world in a box, but you may get out of a rut, things may get going for you again. But on the other hand, if you answer them for yourself then you create a connection with the universal mind. You experience fascinating sensations. You get a deep sense of accomplishment. And you can discover rare things not commonly known. I developed a complex of chaos from it though (crazy? maybe  ). But really, it is actually quite destructive to yourself to ask humans how things function rather than asking within yourself.
It stands to logic that the astral isnt exactly like the physical, so everything that is known via the universal mind is not concerning the physical. I think this whole 'you create the universe around you' thing is getting out of hand. To some extent it is true, but I think it is the astral that the idea pertains to, the physical is already being imagined, but not by us, where as the astral is for the most part being imagined by us.

[kiwibonga]

From Rosalind McKnight's book, Cosmic Journeys: My Out-of-Body Explorations with Robert A. Monroe

Rosalind McKnight is sitting in a CHEC Unit (Controlled Holistic Environmental Chamber) with binaural sounds that Robert Monroe is playing from the control room. She has a microphone and can relay to Robert what is going on while she is in a state of trance. She acts as a channel between Monroe and "Invisible helpers" who give them insights about the greater reality.

ROMC (Rosalind McKnight): I'm lying here trying to figure out what is going on. The new sound that you have, Bob, I think is affecting me differently. I feel nothing happening. However, I heard a voice that said, "Unless you are really willing to work with us on some serious disciplines, we are going to have to withdraw from working with you."
RAM (Robert A. Monroe): Ask them what they mean.
ROMC: I hear the words, "We are trying to get across the point that you must get into the right balance within your systems. With the right energy balance, you can be in contact with other dimensions at any time. There are many dimensions around and within; it is a matter of being in the right state of consciousness to come into the proper communication with them. The goal should be to keep the channels open at all times, to be in constant communication. Certain things cut off communication. One is cutting off the vital energies that help produce the right state of consciousness.
"The message that we want to get across to both of you is that, if you take this work seriously, you should be willing to work carefully with your own vehicles and your own energy systems by following disciplines. You must follow the disciplines that you know within yourselves are the important ones to help accomplish the work that is to be done. It is important to set an example to yourselves, as much as to anyone else. It is not important to be concerned about what others think; it is important to be in contrrol of, and to be respectful of, your own decision-making process."
RAM: Yes, we have been remiss in not understanding this. We will certainly attempt to change the pattern.
ROMC: "It can be done in a slow process. You will find that the body has its habits as well. The body is a separate being in and of itself. It gets used to certain habits and types of food which makes change difficult. When you give up things that you have taken into your system for many years, cravings will occur. To switch habits creates a withdrawal that is not easy for your bodies. It is important to take on one main discipline at a time, and to stick to it. Do not take on more disciplines than you can achieve. You will overload your system in trying to put too many changes upon it at once."
RAM: Is there one critical food that is most detrimental to our system?
ROMC: "The problem is with the amount of food that is taken in. Also, the important foods to eat are the natural foods--foods that have not been tampered with by humans. Artificial ingredients that enhance a food's taste and appearance are detrimental to the energy system.
"Many of the diseases that are a part of modern life on the earth come through the foods that have artificial, man-made ingredients. What happens is that the energy balance in the food is thrown off, and important vitamins are often destroyed. The artificial ingredients, in turn, throw the energy balance off within the body. Many people in societies such as yours, where there is plenty, are victims of vitamin deprivation and starvation, even though there is plenty to eat. The body becomes starved for its natural sources of energy; if it is not satisfied, disease sets in. Disease occurs when the body gets out of balance. The mind and emotions also have a great deal to do with the energy imbalance and disease.
"An important rule to follow is to seek the natural flow of energies--natural foods, your own natural flow of energies, your own natural thoughts. Stay away from the artificial--that which is not in tune with your energies--food-wise and thought-wise. This also includes humans. Do not let artificial humans have control over your life. Anthing that is artificial is not in touch with its own energies."
RAM: What foods are especially good for the system?
ROMC: "Fresh juices are excellent for the system. It is good to cleanse the system with fresh juices. Citrus juices are especially helpful to the body. The body can receive natural sugar through all types of fruits.
"In your society, dyes and sprays are put on the fruits; therefore, it is important to cleanse carefully everything that you eat. It is preferable to eat foods that have not been dyed or sprayed. If this is not possible, careful cleansing is important.
"Back to the amount of food taken into the system: Those who tend to eat from an emotional level often take foods into the body to overcompensate for emotional deprivation. This is detrimental to the body. One must eat from a mental level, having control over the food that is taken in. When the emotions are in control, then the body is often abused.
"The body will crave the kinds of foods it is used to. When it is cleansed of the wrong food vibrations, it craves only the live foods. This is why it is important to put the body through cleansing periods called fasting, so that the body can get in touch with its own energies.
"We stress fruits and vegetables because they have most of what the body needs for proper energy. It is important to get in tune with the foods that you eat, as well as foods being in tune with you. When you eat the natural foods, you are eating live foods. Live foods are foods that have the vital life energy source still in them. The live elements in each cell in the body crave the live elements in natural foods. It is the like-attracts-like principle. When the consciousness levels of the self becomes stagnant or dead, so to speak, they attract dead foods. When the self is vibrantly alive, it attracts the live foods. When humans are really in tune with themselves, they will get the most mileage out of their systems."
RAM: Other than citrus fruits, is there any other food that can cleanse us with some rapidity?
ROMC: "Eating green, leafy vegetables is another good form of cleansing. Also, the yellow vegetables are good for cleansing. You will find that all live vegetables have a puriying effect upon the body; the more of the live vegetables and fruits that you eat, the better.
"However, do know that there are combinations of these live foods that can create an imbalance. One rule is not to mix fruits and vegetables at the same period of eating. It is important not to overload the system with large amounts of meat products. Some systems cannot handle meat products. And some systems do not need meat products. But there is no system that should have a large amount of meat products, for they can affect the digestive system in an adverse manner.
"Meat products are heavier in vibration and put a great load on the digestive system. People who overload the system with meats will have more energy problems, because the body is spending most of its energy digesting these products. Meat energies take away from the bodily energies. But the live foods, being lighter in vibration, do not put a great strain on the digestive system--therefore giving the body more energy for external functioning."

Well, I'm not going to copy the whole chapter... I am wearing out my fair-use rights They basically go on to say that it's good to grow your own foods, to "build a connection with the foods you grow" so that they are in tune with you, and are full of good vibrations. Being thankful for your food when you eat also helps.

Basically, "eating right" is important for the energy body. On the one hand, heavy foods put a strain on your digestive system which will wear down your ability to come in contact with higher energies. This would probably not prevent one from having an out of body experience, but doing serious energy work or attempting to travel to higher planes, contact "higher entities" would be problematic. On the other hand, there's the simple fact that we need this "life energy" that is contained in live foods. Fruit is alive even after it has been picked off a branch, it contains seeds and can still give birth to new plants. Meat will not produce new cows if you plant it into the ground

I'm not much of a vegetarian, and really couldn't care less about what I eat, but I do believe there is some truth to all this. Good physical and emotional balance always leads to a better ability to fulfill one's goals... If you let the small things hold you back -- things as stupid as your eating habits -- you'll keep stumbling along the way.

[Stookie]

So a balanced diet, exercise, and positive attitude are keys to living healthy. That sounds correct (and simple) to me.

[Alaskans]

This is undoubtly the best thread on this subject so far, I have found it very enlightening. I especially liked the arcticle kiwi, thank you. it puts into words what my heart was trying to say, all answers can be found in your heart, it is just a matter of converting the cloudy whisperings from your heart to thoughts in your head. That is one (of the few) advantage of hearing thoughts from someone else, it can sometimes show you what your heart knew but you never formed in your mind.

According to kiwi's quote, the idea of energy connections with the food you eat isnt so crazy. It makes perfect sence to me that dead food with decaying energy, would suck energy from your bodies.

Meat generally has the same molecular makeup no matter what it is, it is not especially good or bad for you (exept for fish, wich is good for you). Fruits and vegetables have a more varied makeup, and can give bennifits that meat cannot.

I wont talk much on the important and illuminating thoughts everyone has put forth on this thread (ya.. I shrank my post). But leave it up to the reader.

[kiwibonga]

I need to write to Rosalind McKnight to find out why mixing fruit and vegetables is bad :p I'll keep you guys updated if I succeed!

[Alaskans]

That would be great Kiwi, thanks. And thanks again for the book quote, it was very enlightening. I'll have to check out some of Monroes books.

I didnt want to mention this early in the tread, but what sparked me to start this discussion happened while trying to do a remote viewing for someone. I had just had some steak soup over at my brothers and decided to try to help this person out. It wasnt going too well.. then I saw the steak cubes that had been in the soup. I had to make a mad dash to the bathroom, where I got to see dinner a 3rd time. I didnt feel like continueing after, so I dont know if it helped. My brother and his gf didnt get sick from it.