The difference between Chi, Ki, + Jing

panabelle · February 21, 2003, 13:57:54

Ok, I think I actually know something about this one. Finally, a question that you don't have to be skilled at energy manipulation to answer! [

]

As far as I know, chi is the universe's energy. Ki is one's inner energy. Ki can have an effect on another person's Ki, but not their physical body. Jing is compressed Ki and can hurt people physically.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the summation of what I've read so far.

Tom · February 21, 2003, 14:30:08

From what I have read in the process of looking into practicing chi kung, jing can be imagined this way: if the body were imagined as a wet sponge any liquid content which could be squeezed out it jing. The word also seems to apply to chi which has been refined and concentrated through a process such as the microcosmic orbit meditation.

panabelle · February 21, 2003, 14:32:51

Yeah, I've heard that about first part too. But you compeltely lost me on the second part.

Tom · February 21, 2003, 15:03:39

If you throw garbage into a garbage compactor until it is full you get a heavy block of garbage. Jing is to chi more like honey is to pollen. The quality is increased in the thickening process.

Kyokushinka · February 21, 2003, 16:50:52

Can anyone possibly explain these things in more detail? I'm still highly confused, and the information out there differs with every source.
-Mera

kakkarot · February 21, 2003, 17:35:38

well, kyokushinka, i am in the process of writing some articles about chi, ki, and other things i've experienced, or use, in my lifetime. i've only done one document so far, an introduction into how I got started with energy, but the others will be coming quickly now that i don't have tons of major assignments due in school.

i will be posting them at astralsociety.com in the journal section when i get a journal entry there. i am expecting to get a journal entry in the next few days.

i will try to explain things as well as i can, and they will not all be documents that beginners will want to look at.

~kakkarot

Arulok · February 22, 2003, 14:30:14

Okay, it goes like this...

Qi & Ki are the same thing. Qi is the term used by the Chinese; Ki is the term used by the Japanese. The energy described is the same thing.

Jing on the other hand is slightly different. It is a Chinese term, often referred to in Chinese Medicine. Jing is the base level of energy granted to us by our parents at the time of conception. Jing is part of 'the three treasures' of Chinese energy theory. We cannot supplement it in our lifetime, but we can bolster it by storing Qi. When we run out of Qi we dip into our Jing reserves; this is why the Chinese place so much importance on building energy in the Lower Dan Tien. (Lower energy storage centre).

Hope this answers your question...

- Michael

kakkarot · February 22, 2003, 15:09:10

actually, ki and chi are not the same thing. chi was developed by the chinese, ki by the japanese. chi is a form of energy that flows through everything; ki is more akin to the strength of your spirit than to an energy, but it is still an energy.

ki is more powerful than chi, but chi is easier to move around. using ki burns you out really quickly. using chi doesn't.

~kakkarot

Arulok · February 23, 2003, 04:29:54

Sorry, Kakkarot, we'll have to agree to disagree. The descriptions and practical uses of both Chi and Ki are the same. If your 'burning out' you're dipping into Jing. When in true harmony with Chi and Ki you do not burn out: you replenish as you use. There's an anecdote about an aikido master who was ill when the Emperor demanded his presence and a demonstration. His apprentices begged him not to go, yet he did. During the bout he not only defeated every one of his apprentices (even though his illness at the beginning of the match was crippling), but was cured of his ailment by the end. He did it by acting in harmony with his Ki. Chi or Qi (depending on which alphabet is used to translate the Chinese) is utilised in the same way. The technique may differ but the results are the same.

Speak to any practitioner of Traditional Chinese Medicine or Japanese Acupuncture and they will tell you the same; they are discussing the same energy. As an example of the energetic makeup - Chi/Qi is stored in the Dan Tien and Ki is stored in the Hara: both are the Lower Energy Storage Centre discussed by Robert Bruce. The storage centre's function in Chinese and Japanese understanding are not dissimilar, in fact they are distinctly the same.

It is Jing, or perhaps Shen, (both Chinese terms) where the differences in energy lie.

Tom · February 23, 2003, 09:21:45

Even when we are talking about jing and shen, I still believe it is just chi or prana or energy or whatever else you might want to call it. That is not a popular belief here. I don't care, though. We can fight about words all we want, but in the end we are alone in the actual practice of cultivating our energy.

auraseer · February 23, 2003, 09:23:13

Hi,
This is my conclusion after lots of forums and articles.

Chi: Energy in the universe and in the air.
Ki Inner energy stored in your tan tien. When the chi collected by the chakras enteres your energy body, it turns to Ki.
Jing: When there is enough Ki in one place, it gets gathered together like a magnet and turns into a more solid energy, Jing. When the body runs out of Ki, it dips into the living energy that keeps you alive.

Anyone correct me if im wrong.

Cya,
James.

panabelle · February 23, 2003, 09:59:24

I know that Chi and Ki are different. I have experienced both and they are just like Kakkarot said in another post - Ki is like fire, Chi is like water.

Tom · February 23, 2003, 10:38:54

The Traditional Chinese Medicine system on which chi kung is based says that there is not only yin and yang energy but that there are five elements. Some chi has more qualities or fire and some has more of wood, metal, fire, or earth. There are many types of chi and it can be yin or yang. If you want to talk about it in Chinese, generally it is chi or qi. China and Japan interacted over the years and in Japan there are also forms of energy work. If we are using Japanese terms, we say ki. Again, ki can have different qualities based on its elements. From India and yoga we have prana. In Tibet we have lung (pronounced the "u" like the "oo" in "moon").

It is similar with Zen. The name was not translated when Zen spread from Japan. It was Cha'an in China. It was Dhyana in India. If we want to translate it into english, it would be Meditation. It would not make sense to say that Cha'an and Zen are very different from each other just because they are words from different languages for the same thing.

kakkarot · February 24, 2003, 13:03:32

"The descriptions and practical uses of both Chi and Ki are the same". i guess we will have to agree to disagree because i have found no japanese description of ki that matches, or even is like, the chinese description of chi.

~kakkarot

Secretseeress · February 24, 2003, 15:54:20

This thread is an excellent illustration of why Robert Bruce only uses english words to describe his techniques.
Secretseeress

ssjoku · February 24, 2003, 16:18:07

if you guys want to know what chi ki jing ect.. . go to this site it has the answer http://www.naturalways.com/treas1.htm or http://www.radiantwonder.com/Jing.htm

Adrian · February 24, 2003, 16:29:26

Greetings everyone,

I propose that Chi, Psi, Ki, Prana, Vital energy etc.are all fundamentally the same. However - out of the Akasha came the four elements from which everything was created - Fire, Air, Water and Earth, and these can be individually accumulated for their corresponding effects.

with best regards,

Adrian.

kifyre · February 24, 2003, 18:59:48

At this time, everything feels the same to me. The chakras, the dan tiens, several structures that Barbara Brennan describes, and a few others--they all feel basically the same. The only difference I've felt is that the lower dan tien really does feel like a ball or a point, and a spot detailed by Barbara Brennan (on the upper chest between heart chakra and throat chakra) feels more diffuse and shimmery. So, the structure *might* be a different, but the energy seems to be the same. But I've got a lot more playing to do before I come to any conclusions.

Mark

Arulok · February 25, 2003, 06:22:05

Adrian
Posted - 24 February 2003 : 23:29:26
Greetings everyone,

I propose that Chi, Psi, Ki, Prana, Vital energy etc.are all fundamentally the same. However - out of the Akasha came the four elements from which everything was created - Fire, Air, Water and Earth, and these can be individually accumulated for their corresponding effects.

with best regards,

Adrian.

I couldn't agree more. These energies are the same at the core, yet can be individualised with the elements.

- Michael

Squeek · February 26, 2003, 23:15:49

I HAVE IT!

Yay.

I forgot where i found this information. I think it should solve all of your questions

Ki - Energy directed from the mind

Chi - Energy directed from the hand

When i was re-playing "Golden Sun", they re-itirate it there. (If you have it, it is Xian that has this video) In the game, you use KI to attack (although they call it Psyenergy), but in this particular situation, you use it to push over a log. Since his hand never goes up, the people in the dojo cannot percieve it as chi. The master of the dojo then comes out and explains that you are using Ki, or energy brought about from the mind. The master then goes about telling the difference to his idiot students....and etc. fun game. Don't know if the information is entirely accurate though, but (hate to example it) sometimes we pull info from dbz.

~Squeek

Fat_Turkey · February 27, 2003, 00:54:58

The names Qi, Chi, Jing and Shen are all part of Chinese dimensional and energy theory. Ki is just an adaptation used by the Japanese.

To me there is no difference, except subtle ones depending on the source and the ways energies are used. Of course I do believe in large differences, like auric energy and elemental energy, but I try not to use Eastern jargon because it just confuses people, as shown in this thread.

kakkarot · February 27, 2003, 16:33:01

just out of curiosity, how many people here have actually studied both the chinese and japanese cultures in depth?

i'm for guessing not many.

~kakkarot

Arulok · February 28, 2003, 05:41:30

kakkarot
Posted - 27 February 2003 : 23:33:01
just out of curiosity, how many people here have actually studied both the chinese and japanese cultures in depth?

i'm for guessing not many.

~kakkarot

I'm sorry Kakkarot but I find this to be a rather insulting statement. By this I assume you have done the in depth study your accusing others of not undertaking. And to be honest, I believe you have, just that the understanding you have come to differs slightly from others on this site. Is that wrong? I don't believe so. When you do undertake a study into something and reach your own experiential conclusions, then I propose you have achieved an understanding for your level at that time.

As an aside, since you asked in such a nice manner, I'm a qualified Acupuncturist and Naturopath with a number of years study behind my proverbial belt. Am I wrong to accept what 3000 years of Traditional Chinese Medicine has learnt/taught? Are you wrong in your beliefs? The answer is no on both counts.

If you return to the origin of this thread, enquiring about the difference between Chi, Ki, and Jing, you'll note people have offered their own opinions from their own understanding. Since this forum is a gathering and discussion of ideas, I ask again - is this wrong?

- Michael

Arulok · February 28, 2003, 05:44:52

ssjoku
Posted - 24 February 2003 : 23:18:07

if you guys want to know what chi ki jing ect.. . go to this site it has the answer http://www.naturalways.com/treas1.htm

Nice site, Ssjoku. Good descriptions of the three treasures.
[

]

kakkarot · February 28, 2003, 19:23:34

wow, arulok, that was pretty aggressive-defensive post.

i ask because chi comes from the chinese culture, ki from the japanese. in the end they may be the same thing, but one will never know if they only study one culture and assume the other is the exact same, or read somewhere that they are the exact same and never do research on it themselves.

i HAVE studied both, but i don't think that automatically means that i'm the only person here who can comment on this stuff, or that my comments are the most valid.

however, i really was wondering just how many people have studied anything from either culture.

~kakkarot

News:

The difference between Chi, Ki, + Jing

Tom

Tom

Tom

Tom