What exactly are you trying to achieve by doing energy work?

[Souljah333]

now i'm reading the thread backwards!  i'm stopping with this one quote, bcuz otherwise i fear that i'll just keep picking through and throwing my comments around out of order...and i have other things going on at this moment.

but...

My rules again: it harms nothing and brings pleasure -- therefore it's on the "good" side of the ledger.

and please forgive me for using this as an example...it should in no way be taken PERSONALLY.

this is the sort of comment that i believe you were referring to in a sense. i feel a certain connection to your posts (more than most) and i take that as a sign that our energy is fairly similar. and reading between the lines is not so much a bad habit, as it is a sense of logic. it's funny that greatoutdoors uses the word "selfish" in reference to the birds, but then follows up with the comment above without acknowledging the same. we are all here chirping away, but more than that even...is the selfish idea of "pleasure". ("my rules" aside). it's all very silly actually, but if you read it over a few times it becomes less and less of a joke, bcuz you being to see how FIRMLY stuck people are in their heads. i actually urge you know to take some time to read over the info at cassiopeia.org. i think it might be what you're looking for. another perspective. again i'm not pushing any truth in it, but it definitely speaks for itself. i just finished reading about their perspective on love, and how loving something is (in a 6th density perspective) completely selfish.
that is something people will argue about forever.

333
see ya around pilgrim
and it's not empty "space" it's intelligent matter.

[Seeker of Matter]

hey thanks for that reply!

On Knightlight's comment, what he said was that you can't see the space that separates your arm from the air next to it. Just as you can't see the space that separates each and every cell of your arm. I'm getting a little off topic here, but he is saying what physicists are also beginning to discuss. 90% or more of everything in our physical world is space! Theoretically, and maybe factually, there is nothing stopping us from being able to walk through walls except our perception of solidity. I totally agree with Knightlight's thoughts, though I don't accept all of Buddism's tenants.

well if the thing is that i cannot see the space seperating my arm from the air, then that is really just a problem with my eyes, if the truth is that every cell really is seperated how can all then be one, which was the main statement right?

Now, as to the existence of emotions...
Consider that everything we think and feel originates from electrical (or energetic) impulses moving through our brain. Destroy the pathways those impulses travel, or take away the impulses, and you do, indeed, have nothing! So in that sense, you are correct. However, that doesn't negate the reality of the emotion! How's that for a cunnundrum!

That is exactly my thought too. Everything that we know or can is due to those 5 physical senses we have, well if we cut the nerves to those, then nothing would exist..... at least not to the person. This has also made me wonder about something ells.

We like to think that we have some sort of "higher purpose" with our lives. At least we cannot seem to be satisfied with just being alive, as most of the other animals of the planet can. I just wonder, is the a unfortunate side effect of our brain? Our brain is the thing that has made us become the dominating species on this planet. We can use our physical world better than other animals because of the creative ways of our brain, I guess it is our ability to ask "what if" that has driven us so far – what if we now rubbed this piece of wood against another piece of wood, that will create heat..... BANG fire was created. Well what if (hehe you see ) this has just backfired at us? what if this search for meaning is the false outcome of our intelligence? Suddenly survival was no longer a problem for us so we made up all these terms of "higher purpose" and "search for truth" and so on.
Well again, Knightlight , those things are just labels, and I really cannot see anything beyond those labels. "higher purpose" is not build by atoms, it is not build by anything, it is mere idea, it is just a label floating like a piece of wood in a false ocean that we ourselves have created.
If there was such a thing as "higher purpose" would it not be weird if only the smart ones could find it? What about all the animals not thinking those thoughts, are they then doomed?

Well I guess I went a bit off topic there but that seems to be quite normal in this thread

Hmm I am quite dizzy in my head. I don't think that I have ever tried to think so much before  

I think I will take run now, I need to close down my mind for a while and digest the new knowledge. That shouldn't prevent you from posting though

[Souljah333]

okay i really am stopping this time (i'm almost positive)

hate to use the poor girl again as an example but...

If it harms no living thing, it's okay; if it brings pleasure to other living beings, then it's even better!

THAT'S ONLY 1/2 RIGHT.
harm no living thing means you're not playing to either side, but...bringing "pleasure" makes is it BETTER??? sorry...that makes it selfish. who are really pleasing??? you have absolutely no idea how the horse feels. you can assume bcuz you may like being brushed that the horse enjoys it as well, but you don't know this to be fact. not only are you transferring what you "believe" onto the horse, but you are doing it bcuz it brings you a sense of pleasure...nothing more! kinda of double negative in a weird, twisted sense.

i know i'll get some feedback on all this!!!
should be interesting
333

[Tom]

Pleasure and happiness are not created. They do not come from external sources. The problem is that there are so many ways of covering them up. If you want to be happy, stop creating misery.

[Adrian]

Hello Souljah333,

i've been hanging out at cassiopeia.org and reading a lot of channeled material. too much to sum up here, but you might find it interesting.

there was one thing that i found interesting that i was reading last night in reference to your question. the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th. they said...correct! you only have to finish your lessons HERE! of course all information should be taken with a grain of salt, but sometimes i also wonder if it's as spiritual as people make it out to be?!? that is isn't just a way of escaping and skipping 3rd density lessons.

333

First of all I have edited the first half of your post as being in violation of our AUP in terms of profanity and disrespect.

Secondly, always be extremely wary of channeled sources.

The vast majority of channelings are with people in the Astral who are catually no different to us except for the fact they are non-physical. They usually have no more true knowledge and often have less, depending on their own evolution. The danger is channeling lower level Astral beings who will claim to be anyone that might appeal to the channeler, very often Archangels

Of course the people in the Astral are for the most part very well meaning, and provide a very valuable service in proving the truth about life after the death of the physical body. But all of these things must be kept in context.  We progress to the 4th density when the physical body expires. The level depends on the level of perfection and therefore vibration of the Astra-Mental bodies, not simply on how much you know.

Best regards,

Adrian.

[Wronski Feint]

In response to the first post on the first page.  I dont heavily study NEW or energy work, but I do read up a little on it and kinda do my own exercises.  I practice channeling energy, telekinesis junk like that.  I mostly work on the combining psi enegy to improve physical ability.

I honestly dont know why I do it.  It just seems natural to me.  And also its very fun.  Imagine if you could jup 40 feet into the air and land without harm.  Or run so fast that you can run on walls.  Imagine how fun that would be to do all the things you imagined as a kid.  I cant do none of that yet but im learning.  But I really dont know what drove me to discover psi ablities or why I havnt given up on them yet.

[Souljah333]

dear Adrian,

how nice to hear from you. don't get the pleasure often. i had thought i made it fairly clear that it shouldn't be taken as truth, just information. as this forum itself should also be viewed...all information actually. i guess i shouldn't give people the benefit of the doubt where these terrible, dangerous things are concerned. that was thoughtless of me...i guess.

still confused with the first section of the post you felt necessary to edit. i was sure that the program edited out profanity?!? since you took the time to "correct" it...actually to delete it...maybe you would also take the time to point out what part exactly was rule breaking?!?

sincerely 333

actually i've read through the AUP once again, and edit the deleted portion of my post, and will attempt to post it again here.

hey sweetie...haven't talked in a while. didn't read through the entire thread, but i think i sense what you're after. there is depth to the question that shows you are well balanced...you don't need another distraction, or something else that sucks up your time and energy as another means of inflating your ego, etc. it is true that a lot of people are picking it up for this reason. the "new age" fluffy trend that puts them in some "special" standing. i see people drinking bottled water and i get the same sick knot in my stomach...that they actually believe that will cut the mustard (sotospeak). that they're making some contribution, and doing yoga, or meditating, and buying organic is suppose to make up for all the other lazy and selfish areas in their life. there is something to pushing your own envelope, pushing on the walls of this limited existence...that could very well be a trance of some sort, but yes you have to remain vigil and constantly aware of falling into another trap in the process of getting out of the one you're in. they're all built so very close together for a reason!

i am assuming that you felt it was in some way abusive to the general group of sudo-spiritualists, but since i don't feel that we have any of those here...i thought i was within my LIMITS. i know that all people are part of some prospective market for spirituality, but since i'm not selling anything to these people i don't have a fear of offending them. i don't think it's a new or radical view-point to say there are a lot of people in this world that think they are special because they subscribe to a certain pattern of beliefs. (lazy, self-absorbed, self-righteous are not new concepts to AP)
(i don't think)
i don't even think most people here take me seriously anyway...
but feel free to delete this section again if it still doesn't suit you. i won't bother with it from this point on. promise.

[Seeker of Matter]

the woman laura that does the channeling is always seeking the secrets to enlightenment (to skip steps), but the ones coming through won't give those answers. they used the analogy referring to the shift between 3rd and 4th density. they asked her where one goes after they finish 3rd grade. she answered 4th. they asked her if it was necessary for the person to know all about 4th grade in order to move up. she said no that you only have to finish all the lessons of 3rd grade to move up to 4th
333

That is exactly my philosophy!! Stop trying to escape the important lessons, they might require work and you might get hurt along the way, but we need them!!!

Hey I was wondering when you would post something! Now it happened nice to see you again!

And hey, the thing that was edited out, and which you have now reposted. Even though I might get smacked by an admin now, it is mostly the thoughts I had in mind when I started this post.

Now I will quote it anyway because I think it is very very well written!

it is true that a lot of people are picking it up for this reason. the "new age" fluffy trend that puts them in some "special" standing. i see people drinking bottled water and i get the same sick knot in my stomach...that they actually believe that will cut the mustard (sotospeak). that they're making some contribution, and doing yoga, or meditating, and buying organic is suppose to make up for all the other lazy and selfish areas in their life.

This is actually exactly what I am talking about, I just didn't have the skills to put it as clearly
This was actually what I intended people to confront right from the beginning. To see if there was something generally flawed in that statement, if I was right or wrong. Well thank you for putting it clear !!

It is not because I have against the people here, it is just that I get the impression that everybody are in so much peace with them selves and have so much great experience with everything, I just wanted to know if this goes any deeper than just the appearance?

We progress to the 4th density when the physical body expires. The level depends on the level of perfection and therefore vibration of the Astra-Mental bodies, not simply on how much you know.

this is what I hate!!! Simply plainly hate!!! GRR!  I read this every where! How do you know it? is it something you have experienced with astral projection? Well if that applies when you astral project, what makes you think that it also applies when you die. If you have died.......(yes it sounds stupid...) well then how can you be here writing about it?!? then I guess I have to do a lot of energy work and a lot of astral projection in order to vibrate higher otherwise I will go to one of the lower astral realms aka. Hell. I guess that I have to buy your book then I order to go to heaven. Hmm where I have I seen this before? Was that not something practiced by the Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, that you could buy yourself away from hell? letters of indulgence?

Well it seems to be very popular to flame you because that you advertise you book on this page, well I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that statement that if you have low vibrations, then you go to hell. Well when you are very happy then you have high vibrations but if you are not then you have low vibrations and then you are doomed, and now there is even no hope, because you will take your unhappiness with you in the astral. And I guess that there will be a lot of other unhappy people there as well... well how on earth are you ever supposed to be happy then??

Please elaborate on that, it is one of the things that I have come to fear the most actually..... I cannot even argue with you because I have never visited the astral planes  (not that I am aware of at least).

[Tom]

However low or high a person's vibrations are, the consequences are immediate. This is what determines the people and situations you bring into your life. The point in talking about it is that there are many ways to improve the situation and the benefits are immediate. We are not talking about dying and going to heaven if you pay off the right people.

[Souljah333]

i have to speak with what i'm currently working with, which i mentioned earlier as the channeling thing from the so-called cassiopaean's. although they point out they are more a unified field of consciousness coming from the 6th density. a far of cosmopolitan race of "others" that are riding some gravity wave towards earth as we speak...approximate arrival time 2012. it is there hope that as many people are prepared for the shift into 4th density as possible. i still haven't decided if it's information or disinformation yet. i would mention being cautious of channeled information, but Adrian already addressed that concern. i've only just begun reading and there's realms of writing on the site...so i'm not pushing anyone to visit (only SEEKER as i feel it would be of benefit to him at this time). they speak of us as a "fallen" race under reptile rule. i'm not saying i'm in total agreement with this, but their explanations are extremely insightful. every single human living on earth is programmed to miss the mark. they refer not to good and evil, but STS & STO...
service-to-self & service-to-others. there's no way i could sum it up in a post, but they say as long as we are in 3rd density we are purely STS animals, and then they go into to why overflowing buckets of love & light are not the answer. that only when another asks for help can we be in service-to-others...otherwise everything is STS, and i can't see much of an argument there. of course it could be disinformation and telling everyone not to bother loving their neighbor, etc, etc. but i don't see humans being able to control that nature, and in a round about sense neither do they...but they stress over and over again that all there is is lessons. as long as you're constantly striving to learn, and your not instead avoiding the lessons...then it doesn't matter how anyone does it. all part of the collective consciousness and no two lessons are exactly the same.

i have a feeling that if this "wave" they speak of is approaching that many things will change. you won't have to spend decades attaining enlightenment...they say it will come like a subatomic blast. people will start "waking" up instantaneously...and notice they didn't say "like a nice warm breeze". i have a feeling that people will have to work through their issues all at once...and that can be extremely painful. so i guess the more one has applied them-self to enlightenment the less painful it'll be, but only a fraction less than others who are ignorant...and to make Seekers point (if i may)(on the other hand) that for some who have done a lot of work in the whole light and love realm...it could actually be more painful than the rest...if it is in fact a way of delving deeper into the programming, and away from the truth. digging deeper into service-to-self, rather than remaining somewhat neutral in it all. WHO KNOWS?!? NONE OF US...and that's a very scary thought.

all there is is lessons...and since we are in the physical. we chose to come here in the physical...i can see Seekers point in that it would logically seem that the lessons themselves would be of a more physical nature. eg: day to day life. i think a subtle point that is made over and over again at cass---.org is that our need to search for things beyond us...is what is holding us back. a catch 22 they say...and what are we suppose to do about that?!? i haven't read that far yet.

Dearest Seeker, do not expect others to be open to these ideas. this is a very difficult thing for most to do...turn around and look at where you are coming from...why should they? it is much easier for you to get with the "program"!

follow your feelings
seek & you shall find
and give me your perspective on "the meek inheriting the earth".
love & light  
333

i'm always curious about the whole taboo spirit/ouija board thing. esp. from those that travel the astral. there seems to be a lot of talk at discrediting those with neg attacks as if they are doing something wrong, or need more work on themselves spiritually, as if going through the painful lessons is somehow WRONG. but then there is a great amount of energy used to enforce the REAL dangers of negs coming through a piece of wood with letter & numbers on it. not that i really believe that negative is the best word, nor evil...i'm not sure what to call it. "interfering souls" maybe?!? feeders definitely. and these can come through anytime, anywhere. JUST DON'T ASK QUESTIONS YOU DON'T WANT THE ANSWER TO, DON'T GO INTO UNCHARTED TERRITORY, AND DON'T INVITE ANYTHING IN EVER.

[Ben K]

souljah: what is enlightenment?

also, on the topic of lessons: i disagree. Learning is an aspect of life, yes, but when it comes to death what lessons that you learned in life actually matter? Does it matter in the afterlife that you can build a house, or teach a classroom of students? Hell, does it even matter that we learned compassion, or happiness?

I believe we are here simply to be here. to have fun, experiance limitations, play a game if you will. we abide by a broad set of rules, like gravity and mortality, but for the most part you get to do what you want, and no one else is going to judge you except yourself.

I dont know if i believe in "negs" or whatever you call them. I think there are people stuck in death who dont know they are dead, and they act out there sick beliefs in there own systems, but i dont get the whole idea of seperate entities with an evil agenda. actually, heh, i dont even believe in Good and Bad. for me these are concepts that we draw upon for use in the physical universe.

[Seeker of Matter]

hey thank you very much for that massive post, phew it took some time to get through it.

I don't really know what to think about what you are writing. in one way it appeals to my way of thinking that those "cassiopaean's" are coming and somehow forcing us through to the 4th density making people face their problems and overcoming them all at once.

But I never said that I like my way of thinking, it is just something I do, think in that way.

But I choose to remain skeptical towards it. It sounds a bit crazy to be honest... something is coming from somewhere I have never heard of to change mankind. Perhaps I should try to do some reading on that page, but if YOU say that there are oceans of text there, then already there my breath is taken away. But I do want to cast anything away before I have read it. But right now it sounds very mysterious.

I read your post in the astral projection section about the thing about you thought that you were being influenced by some sort of aliens. I have always sought not to come up with such conclusions, they tend to make me insanely paranoid, well if we are being controlled by aliens, then perhaps I should be

But hey, can we take this up again in 2012 ? then there will be prove right? At least I do not want to run around outside claiming that doomsday is upon us, and then be ticked off as nothing happens... damn.... yet another false prophecy, well it is a good thing that I have 100 other doomsday prophecies in my book, bwarhahah!


Not that it is anything close to what you are saying. But that was the kind of thought that came to me. Sure, it is very likely that it is society that has influenced me to deny such obvious truths right?

To be honest, I am getting a bit tired of searching and searching for something that I can believe in that also makes sense to me. The only thing that I m certain of is that I am NOT happy hence the search. Actually, the thought of doing drugs appeals to me! At least I sometimes see it as an excellent alternative to this misery here. The misery came out of nowhere, I never asked to by unhappy. So that would be a fine way to mock destiny, doing drugs and feeling happy.

What is the difference between being and feeling happy? I know, it is YOU! You are the only ones to tell me as I am doing heroin that I am not happy, just feeling happy!
Perhaps I will find the biggest meanest guy with a baseball bat and insult him insanely much. Then I would spend the rest of my days in a hospital with a morphine drop, feeling totally good – good plan?

I know that if I suddenly felt happy for no apparent reason, I would abandon this search for higher destiny in a second and just go around and feel happy. This was never ever what I intended, this is just the result of feeling bad, of not knowing who why and where I am. I am hoping that I will find happiness by going here in the hope that "enlightment" will make me happy.

But yes, deep down I know that running around searching for this "holy grail" is not the answer, but I do it anyway just for the sake of doing something I guess.

Christ I am tired..... I have a Danish oral exam two days from now, it is filling up my mind more than it is supposed to.

Well goodnight. Sorry for this last part of nonsense, hopefully I will gain a more positive perspective tomorrow

[Souljah333]

Dear BENK, long time no see. sometimes i feel like were communicating for the first time. i'm sure we've gone over all this before?!? i'd like to be able to say that people are free to think whatever they want to think, but something won't allow me to do that. something that sees a box full of blocks, and then i can't say that we are free to play with all the blocks we want. only the ones out of the box. the thoughts come from a box as well, and although you are free to pick and choose whichever suit you, and change that choice at will. does that equate to real freedom? is that a real choice? i guess that's as good as it gets for us here in the 3rd dimension/density...whichever.  
what isn't enlightenment?

Dear SOM, i wasn't trying to push anything on you. i was just giving a rough idea about the site...save you from the trouble, encase it wasn't your thing, but in between the stuff that the "average" person has a difficult time swallowing there is some good information, especially if you like physics. why do we keep searching? when we're happy why do we cease and desist? if there was really some great lizard conspiracy to keep us zombified...wouldn't they make it all fine and dandy, so we wouldn't look for something else? reminds me of the matrix once again. where mr.smith says that the original program didn't work bcuz it was too perfect. too walgreens...and people kept trying to wake themselves up?
i don't think that kind of happiness exists...the kind that just keeps going. it comes little spurts, and we want to experience it again, and that's what we keep searching for...sometimes so much so that miss the little spurts that do come, bcuz we want that first taste, that original feeling again.
it definitely has to do with clearing the mind, and experiencing everything as if it was your first time...and in that sense there would be no lessons to hold on to. we can't forget, so we can't let go, and we can't experience that freedom, that enjoyment bcuz we're stuck. but what the hell do i know??? i never claimed to have any answers what so ever.

as far as the aliens and negs are concerned...i guess you'll have to wait till you come up against one. nothing i say could convince or prepare anyone in any sense whatsoever. of course they've come quite a long with holographic technology.

333

333

[Seeker of Matter]

Dear SOM, i wasn't trying to push anything on you. i was just giving a rough idea about the site...save you from the trouble, encase it wasn't your thing, but in between the stuff that the "average" person has a difficult time swallowing

yes i know, i just have a hard time in believing in anything. and considering the fact that i will not live for ever (in the physical at least) i simply cannot afford throw myself into one way of believing or thinking because what if it was not true after all? Then I would see myself as the biggest idiot alive. There are simply too many believes and I cannot afford to bury myself in just a few of them. I must see them all, because I have a feeling that once I find the right believe, I will know because there will be no doubt! No "what if". Well that would at least be nice

I remember when I saw the matrix for the first time over at a friend's house, I truly believed that we were being controlled by somebody ells and that this world was just an illusion. I felt totally insane!!! I must have been around 14-15 I cant really remember.... Well when Neo leaves "the matrix" is the "real world" not just another matrix? Or did I misunderstand that part? Well anyway that would seem like the most logical right? That if there are somebody capable of manipulating with our reality that they have created it just like an onion with infinitive layers? And then I think "what is the point then"? if we are going through all that trouble escaping this matrix, when the place we have come to is just another matrix? Well what would the point be in creating a false reality? To use our body for electricity? No that is stupid, that is also the part of the matrix that I did not understand, why humans? Why not cows? They also produce body heat and I bet you they won't try to escape their infinite field of grass.

And hey, if we are being controlled by something like in the matrix, then why would they simply not prevent that such movies as the "matrix" comes out which makes us think in a direction that could be potentially dangerous for them?

Well I don't know. In some way it would bring a lot of hope to think of this world as being totally false, and the struggle to reach "another world" would be like a kind of religion. And I can perfectly understand why a lot of people would believe in that.

What about astral projection and the astral worlds, are they also "false" then, another layer to the matrix?


In my next life I will specialize in giving answers in stead of asking questions all the time

[Souljah333]

yeah but if you specialized in answers no one would take you seriously. not that anyone takes anything seriously anyway. you could be like tony robins and own a lot of excrement though! the labyrinth, the wizard of oz, alice in wonderland, the cube, etc...there's been a reoccurring story throughout. RPG's are very much the same, and i've been hearing more about them from dreamers and AProjectionists. getting though the levels. anyway...
the simplest idea that repeats itself often in my life (physically & otherwise) is that there is no escape, bcuz their is no trap. i think we can ascend the illusion/all of this in an instant. i don't lean much toward the "human battery" idea either, but i do sense something in us all building some onion like construct "around" ourselves...where the more we learn, the more we gather...the more we build...the more trapped we become.

I sing the body electric
I celebrate the me yet to come
I toast to my own reunion
When I become one with the sun

And I'll look back on Venus, I'll look back on Mars
And I'll burn with the fire of ten million stars
And in time, and in time, we will all be stars

I sing the body electric
I glory in the glow of rebirth
Creating my own tomorrow
When I shall embody the earth

And I'll serenade Venus, I'll serenade Mars
And I'll burn with the fire of ten million stars
And in time, and in time, we will all be stars

had to add this bcuz it just keeps looping through my mind.
333

i see so much information streaming from all sides? everything to me feels like this. leading one way or another. just ordinary people writing stories, music, screenplays, games, etc...but there's something else in it. whether it is to be deciphered or not, i can't say. i guess it could be like the million monkey theory...but it's so much more frequent than that.
it surrounds me.

[TheLostOne]

I have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?

I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.

Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?

I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!

Can some of you relate to that?

Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?

Please prove me wrong.....

Its really hard for me to put the idea together, but I try.

I think I understand and agree with you. I would try understand people who reply to this in "contra" way. There is biiig diference between energy work and meditation. Actualy there isn't, but it depends on definition of the words. I've never done NEW practicaly, I just started to read it and the practice was repeling to me, because there was no asnwer on WHY should I try to feel anything, why should I do with energy?
I figured out that real working with energy is pure meditating, or dealing with life itself. Whenever you are in position you feel some "bad" feeling anywhere(at home/work in contact friends/other people), you should analyze mind piece by piece. It's all about mind. Its not about energy. When you work with your mind, consequently you work with energy. So its a diference in some way. Directly affecting energy has secondary meaning and most of the job done here is in ego nature imho.
I haven't done single energy work , maybe some meditating when I felt like it, only when I felt like it and I have become more subtile (or i was from before, dunno) when it comes to feeling the energy.
For me, feeling the energy is only a proof to energy-based "theories" or
should I call the Truth. nothing else,.. nothing else...
so I can speak freely and confidenlty about this things, because once you feel, you know. Its not believeing anymore, its knowing and understanding...

[Souljah333]

going back to the "spirit-board" thing. we come in contact with people all day long, touch, interact, try to comprehend where they're coming from & what they're saying, but we usually measure it against where we're coming from & what we chose to believe...so what's the diff? don't the same basic concepts for self-preservation carry through/across? or is the understanding here that people throw all caution to the wind when they think that god is speaking to them? anyway...people are far better conduits for all the information than a sheet of wood. i don't get why so many people have issues with the method? the same could said for the telephone.

Secondly, always be extremely wary of channeled sources.

The vast majority of channeling's are with people in the Astral who are actually no different to us except for the fact they are non-physical. They usually have no more true knowledge and often have less, depending on their own evolution. The danger is channeling lower level Astral beings who will claim to be anyone that might appeal to the channeler, very often Archangels Smile

i think it's ridiculous to think that channeling isn't something we're always doing. we're always asking questions, waiting for answers. we're always seeking advice and hoping for secret in's to it all. for me it comes from a million different directions (descending & ascending, buckling & inflating all at once). and this is for those at the other end as well that think that the whole channeling thing is hogwash. i'm pleased with myself in that fact that i can find inspiration and wisdom in all things. i don't to see it to believe it, and it doesn't have to be of some "prove'n standard". it's not reserved to nietzsche, or string-theories.
it can be teletubbies and pineapple.  how long ago did fucanelli live and people are just beginning to figure out the messages now. we can only resist for so long.
i just don't get all the boxes people like to draw around themselves and everything around them them...seems to prolong the whole thing?!?

333

[phantomviewer]

I have been doing some reading about energy work, and I have even tried to practice it myself. I used NEW and I felt the tingling and so on that is to be expected with it. But then I stopped and thought for a moment. What is it that energy work supposed to do you? Is it supposed to make you happier or stronger or smarter?

I have tried to understand chakras and how they are connected to the different kinds of feelings of a human being. I then read that if you are hurt emotionally – ex. if your girl- or boyfriends breaks up with you, then it can affect you hearth chakra. Well that sounds logical. Then a closed down hearth chakra is the indication of that you feel bad but not the cause of it (very important).....
Let me put it in another way. You life is not caused by you chakras, you chakras are caused by life and by affecting your life you affect your chakras and NOT the other way around. Please comment.

Is it just me or do you people (sorry for generalizing) think that doing energy work will make you happier in life? I would have loved to weave that question a bit around so it wouldn't seem so direct and childish but that was my core-thought.
Are you people who are doing energy work unhappy for some reason? And is it not true that people that have never ever done energy work or heard about it can actually have much much higher energy levels than people that have done it for years?
Is it then not just an illusion that energy work will do anything for you but make you tingle a bit? Should the "real" energy not be used to correct the physical problems in stead of manipulating energy?

I can give an example. Yesterday I went to my Danish test-exam where I had to write an essay. I had been very nervous for that exam many days before, and that of course made me feel bad. So by some sort of reflex-thought I began doing some energy work. Then I stopped and realized that it was not going to help anything – the only thing that would help was going to that exam and finishing it. The reason I felt bad was because I doubted in my abilities to analyze a text and find the message of it.
When I had finished my exam I felt greater than I had felt and there was no energy work involved!

Can some of you relate to that?

Do you do energy work in order to overcome problems in your life? Or do you at least think that energy work will easy your lives?
In the end is energy raising not just caused by fear and doubt in one self? "oh I must do more energy work or I will have low energy – perhaps even lover than others' and that will in the end make me less of a human than them!!"
Can we call it a more accepted quest for power (and perhaps even more extended as you will take it with you when you die) do you think that it will make you more powerful in the afterlife?

Please prove me wrong.....

A Tree to be Desired (The Garden of Eden)
http://www.harrypottermagic.org/2-Trees.htm

The Serpent said you will become Gods. "The Kundalini, like a serpent that arises up to the brain, awakening the Serpent Power".

[steve-]

SoM, I don't know if you are still following this thread but I hope I can give you a pragmatic example of the positive effects of energy work.
For years I had spontaneous occurrances of different sorts i.e. vivid dreams, increased consciousness in dreams, projection symptoms(didn't know what they were at the time), and even a fully conscious real-time projection. Following that, I had a fully conscious astral projection. For many years now I've wanted to recreate those experiences. I wasn't looking to "improve" myself, I just wanted to recreate those amazing experiences in this mundane world of empty religion and hollow philosophies. Concerns, in my opinion, about selfish desires only act as a roadblock to doing  anything in this world.
So I set out to understand. The first books I stumbled across described a strange sensation known as the "vibration". I was amazed by the verification of my experiences. I felt as if I had just dug a book from the ashes of the library of Alexandria. Soon, I began to find more books and more verifications. But, very few of these books contained information on how to stimulate and develop ourselves to reacheive our experiences.
You mention how you did some energy work and felt some tingling. You then launched immediately into conscious denial of its benefits. I guess an appropriate question would be,
"Are you looking to recreate a previous experience, or are you trying to cause your first experience?"
The reason I ask this is because you (through the effort of sitting down and doing energy work) show a desire to develop yourself along these lines.
If you would allow me, I would like to rephrase your question, "I sat down and followed the instructions on how to develop my energy body. My results were successful. I felt tingling which indicated to me that I do have an energy body. This is the most amazing discovery of my life. Nobody ever told me about this and I had to investigate on my own. If I am to believe other intellectually honest people, this one experience indicates to me that life does exist beyond the body. I will continue to investigate due to this verification. Other experiences await me if I continue developing and strengthening my energy body. I know that further experiences will open and expand my understanding of reality. My understanding will be based on experience, not dogma. But, how do I overcome my doubts? Why do I constantly create roadblocks to my own development? I know this is an open-ended question but it is the root of my problems with energy development. Is it a wolf in sheeps clothing? Is my fear of projecting actually clothed in intellectual debate about the validity of energy work? "
The reason I phrased this in a question is because I have the very same problem. I love talking. But talking is not a placebo for doing.
Your experiences will validate themselves. Others words, and even our own, being only so much sound and fury.
I would be interested in news about your further energy work. Your cautious approach, and any experiences that follow, could bring credence to the esoteric path of energy work. Especially to those who doubt. And then truly your path will be unselfish. You will be holding the light of experience and knowledge up to those who may be wandering.

[Seeker of Matter]

Hey thanks for the posting. You have quite a lot of interesting thoughts there. At least to me.
Well I was actually waiting for this topic to slowly pass away and be forgotten, as I simply could not pull myself together to write anything more in it.

This process of writing actually requires that you focus your mind on what you want to write and actually think the whole thing through in you head and then validate if it is something worth writing. The thought of that whole process can sometimes feel a little overwhelming but now that I AM writing it doesn't seem so bad

Well to do some follow ups I have chosen to think about selfishness in a specific way. It is all right!
I guess that I had an extreme view on selfishness that would label anything that benefits you as selfish. But I have now come to the conclusion that selfishness is not a bad thing. Everybody is selfish to some extend but when it doesn't hurt anyone then I guess it is okay.

Concerns, in my opinion, about selfish desires only act as a roadblock to doing anything in this world.

I have come to that conclusion as well.

And to the energywork. I have never ever felt anything spontaneously like energy sensations and vibrations and lucid dreaming (actually I am lucky if just recall fragments of my dreams) and certainly not out of body experiences.
My spiritual research started about one and a half years ago when I was trying to analyse some Tool (music band) lyrics found in the song "Third eye" and some guy posted a link to www.astralvoyage.com where this Anne Varnes explains the function of the third eye. I just began reading at that site and I was insanely excited of this whole concept of astral travel. It sounded almost unreal and I had my doubts if this was just some sort of fantasy novel she was writing.

Well one thing let to another and then I wanted to try it. So I tried to relax all the best I have learned and I simply waited for these vibrations and "exit sensations" to come..... but they never came. And I know that you must think that I am doing something wrong you probably think that I am trying too hard or any of the other obvious things that everybody who has tried astral travel warns about.
Well I am still trying sometimes just to see if perhaps NOW am able, but I still feel nothing. At least in the category of vibrations and exit sensations.

Yesterday I actually read Major Tom's massive article on Focus 10 as I have tried the Monroe experience (have all the cd's actually) but I didn't get very far with it so I thought that maybe I relaxed in the wrong way or something like that.
Well I read the whole thing last night and that brought a lot of thoughts to my head. I know that when you try to astral project then you cannot have your head filled with thoughts and concerns but Major Tom's thoughts of Focus 10 filled my head and I of course wanted to go again and try to reach this Focus 10. So I was extremely focused last night as I went to bed (I guess this was my error huh?). and I kept saying to myself "relax relax relax". Well my body in no way went to sleep BUT I experienced something ells!!!
I think that I the most lucid dream I have ever had! Well I don't know if it was lucid as you know it, but I have nothing ells to compare to as my dreams are the only ones I have experienced and therefore I stick to calling my dream a lucid dream ok ?
Well actually it was not a dream, it is the most terrifying insanely fear inspiring nightmare I have ever had... EVER!!! I was so scared I thought I would die from fear. And when I woke up, it didn't feel like a normal wakeup, I just kinda became aware of that I was lying with my eyes wide open just staring straight into my wall.
There I lay for some time before I decided to sit up. I sat up and did nothing but looking into the wall for 15 minutes. Then I walked a bit around in my room with my body slightly shaking. It was 3 in the morning and I seriously did not want to go back to sleep.

My dream was actually very weird and I am surprised that I felt such fear from it. It was about the supernatural.
I dreamt that I was in my home and then a lot of radios suddenly turned on. Old radios I think there were 9 of them. I can't remember what sounds came out of them but it definitely scared me. Then I shut them off and the scene changes. I was in my living room and my cat was standing in front of me. Then another cat appeared besides it.... well it ended with me killing the other cat with a huge chair because it was weird. It disappeared when I moved the chair....... which I in the end killed it with ( yes it sounds weird I know...)
But I guess it was a step in the right direction.

I actually have a theory of why I have not experienced vibrations or OBE's. it is because that I do not want to....
When I go to bed I always have this idea of eternal peaceful sleep in my mind. I never really want to wake up again. The only thing that I want to do is sleep and enjoy the "nothingness" it brings. Well I guess that my wish is quite powerful huh? That would explain why I almost never have lucid or semi lucid dreams. Because I deep down don't want to. I want to escape this reality not just go into another one – loose consciousness. Well I can see how that does not go hand in hand with OBEs
I guess it is an attitude problem. I guess it could be a depression problem... it could be a motivation problem which I think is the most likely. When I think about it. I have enough "reality" here on this dense low vibrating cold and hearthless (yes I tend to get melodramatic hehe) place for now, I just feel that I should explore this place a little more before I start urging for another place. I don't think I can stomach all these realities right now. Perhaps I am too young...
Wasn't Robert Monroe around 50 or 60 when he started astral projecting? He got a long way even though he was old he even founded an institute.
Perhaps I too should wait?

Damn... I made the post too long. Hmm I guess it is time for you to put your arms around you and clap yourself on your shoulder because you read through this whole thing

[Seeker of Matter]

Yes I guess you that can harvest the credit of bringing me that experience. The clearness of the dream was nothing to what I experience in "real life" but it was much clearer than any dream I have ever had even considering that I almost never am able to remember anything from my dreams.

I enjoyed your article very much it is obvious that you have put a lot of time into that focus 10 research. Even as much as 300 hours

Well one of the other things in your article that I really liked was the quote from your friend?

Awareness itself has no concern for its image. Only when your awareness attaches itself to what is convenient, owns that what it is experienced, then a fixed pattern comes in, an awareness checking up on itself- making thought the object of thought by separating yourself from it- trying to own it and seeking a solution. Awareness fixated on itself, centred around itself and observing itself like a prison guard directing and controlling other thought. Taking care of those prisoners who abide to his rules and punishing those who don't. He has given power to itself to wield over the prisoners, but he doesn't realise he is in the prison himself, that he is no different from the prisoners. He believes he is more important and powerful than the prisoners, that he is different from them - separated.

The memory of the light outside the prison walls is long gone as he was trained to be a guard. Until he realises that all the wielding of power is useless when he himself can never go outside. Until he sees he is no different at all than what he tries to control, that in the outer world this control is meaningless except for himself, only then maybe he changes his life cause he will see the meaninglessness himself. Then he will drop the need for self-esteem the prisoners gave him. He will no longer be attached to the prisoners. No longer trying to hold them. He will drop everything and leave. Freeing the prisoners and himself at the same time to experience a world outside of the prison walls, a more expansive way of living.

There is no loss of living if we would give the prison guard less importance even though we fear that there will be. We tend to give the part of ourselves that holds the opinions about the "whole" of us the most importance. In reality it is only about holding a fixed moment still, to be reflected upon. Holding still in that moment, the present is lost with only the past functioning. We do this as we are in need of constant reminder of ourselves - that we exist. Can you see that the ending of this constant focus on ourselves has nothing to do with the loss of self, but that it brings upon us a fear that the self has become in danger of being lost, of not being in control? It is far more peaceful to feel yourself as pure energy. An energy that can move freely. The real meaning of identification is simply to attach a word to something so that the next time you see it you can recognize it. You'll relate it to an image of what you identified before rather than seeing something new. So to "identify yourself" is to maintain a certain image, prison around yourself that can never change.

Nothing is lost if we give this focus less importance cause the self will continue to exist. It's simply removing an "identification" fixation, a crystalized structure. Purifying the self instead of destroying it. A far more expansive self, as it will move into areas of existence it never before had the chance to move into. As it is now, any movement towards an expansive state of consciousness is constantly pulled back into by an authoritative part of ourselves demanding that all our movements remain in line with the image we have ourselves. The slightest deviation from what we perceive ourselves to be is stopped by us being alarmed and feeling the need to hold the moment in time so that it cannot go further

I am still trying to fully understand it but I think it is great anyway. At least it makes me think in new ways.

Well I guess I will go all the way and read Frank's thoughts about phasing, and NOT try to do it right after, but wait a couple of days to let it sink in and then try. That nightmare experience was quite "educative" in terms of not rushing blindly towards something

EDIT: i noticed a copyright mark on your article.... i hope you are not going to sue me for quoting from it  

[steve-]

I think it is interesting because you have not had an experience in the realm of AP.  Something deeply subconscious must be pushing you in this direction.  I know it does for me.  Whether it is pain that pushes us toward AP as an escape, or our "higher self" pushing us toward a expanded state of mind, I don't know.  But the end result is that we feel a desire to go in the direction of "spiritual work".

[steve-]

Here's some pragmatic suggestions for you that I have found to be true and effective.  Learn Robert Bruce's methods of energy body stimulation.  Listen to the appropriate setting on the bwgen while you do your energy body stimulation.  Sit in a semi reclined chair.  Do all of these things after you are fully rested and are not likely to fall asleep.  Stay as close to the prescribed time limits as possible as described in 90 Days to Astral Projection.  Try to calm your mind more than you have ever done in your life, push the limits.

[steve-]

Lucidity will result from this work.  The only cure for "terror" or "fear" is lucidity.  It's like turning the light on and realizing that the big furry thing you feel in the dark is only a bear fur and not a bear.  Fear in our dreams, in my opinion, is the ego personality fighting to deny its higher self.  Dreams are a delusion created by the subconscious to paint terrifying pictures of OOB related symptoms.  For example, while the energy body is feeling different sensations such as the vibration or transitional stages of projection it translates these into things which you are consciously terrified of.(radios turning on supernaturally or freaky animals screeching)  Thereby using your fear against you by causing you to stop the terror and denying you further development.  Lucidity, which is a result of energy work, will allow you to consciously say, while you are dreaming, "I am no longer afraid of these images".  Then you will more than likely move on to a more conscious state of being.  (Out of body experience)

[steve-]

A funny thing I have noticed recently is a strong anti-establishment sentiment. What I mean by this is the desire of people to shirk something because of its high visibility in the public eye. What I am getting at is about Robert Bruce's books. Just because he is profiting from these books, some automatically assume he is a corrupt capitalist who is exploiting spirituality. Don't be afraid to follow the instructions in his books. This world, at least until we can produce manna from the sky, will remain profit driven. I believe Bruce has the highest intentions that anyone could have. I tried for years to reproduce anything that I could on an astral level. Wishing, hoping, believing but it just didn't cut the mustard. This is practical work and it does require practical methods. I do hope you try the 90 Days book and keep us informed while you practice.[/i]