just something thats been bothering me for a while

[Tom]

A googleplex is a 1 followed by a google of zeroes.

With no beginning to time, you can say that we have already done everything possible. It is just that we do not remember it. There are times when just going week to week or day to day is an incredible monotony. It is probably fortunate not to have the sense of having lived nearly identical lives for billions or trillions of years.

Not that I believe in God or immortal souls.

[Nerezza]

I have no experience with reincarnation but I believe the point in it is to learn as much as we can so we don't have to reincarnate, thus it would be very hard to experience everything(Im most likely wrong about this so someone please correct me).

I dont believe we will ever become one with god, so what else will happen?

You don't beleive but billions of others do. Perhaps not God, put some sort of "spiritual bliss". But if you want an answer for one who does not believe in a god, then I would say....hmm, I really have no idea. I can't imagine a reason for reincarnation to go on forever. Anyone?

[Spirit_Gurl]

and billions of others don't. what does that have to do with anything?
doesn't make you any more or less right, it's just a not very intersting factoid.  you could be the only one in the universe to believe something, and be right. I mean, talk about millions, look at how many [enter some large religeous group here... examples, jews, christians, etc...even though im jewish i still dont believe in it btw] there are out there... (hint, hint)

I believe we remember all our lives. maybe we dont recall them now, in this life, but when we die we do.

any other comments?

[kakkarot]

two things really terrify me:

the concept of absolute obliteration of a being (so that nothing remains of their being; not their mind, their spirit, body, anything), and eternity. i do not fear eternity so much as i might, because i am hoping that there is something about eternity that i don't understand while i am still in this mortal coil, something that will take away the fear of it.

~kakkarot

[Nerezza]

and billions of others don't. what does that have to do with anything?
doesn't make you any more or less right, it's just a not very intersting factoid. you could be the only one in the universe to believe something, and be right. I mean, talk about millions, look at how many [enter some large religeous group here... examples, jews, christians, etc...even though im jewish i still dont believe in it btw] there are out there... (hint, hint)


Exactly my point, im glad you understand.

the concept of absolute obliteration of a being (so that nothing remains of their being; not their mind, their spirit, body, anything), and eternity. i do not fear eternity so much as i might, because i am hoping that there is something about eternity that i don't understand while i am still in this mortal coil, something that will take away the fear of it.

I think I fear eternity more. I could live knowing I can expect a true end at the end of life, but an eternity of reincarnation is truly frighting to me. It's the nature of eternity that matters to me.








 

[Spirit_Gurl]

Kakkarot, that is exactly how I feel.


back to the topic, please?

[James S]

Maybe we're like fish in a really big fishtank.
Apparently fish only have a memory span of several seconds, so if the tank is large enough, they can keep swimming around and around looking at what they think is something new all the time.

What if we have the same thing happen to our memories each time we reincarnate?

The again, I have trouble remembering what I did a few days ago!

Probably little chance that our souls would ever perish. The way I see it is our souls are energy. Basic laws of physics say that energy can neither be created or destroyed, just changed. Though this could mean that the energy of our souls gets changed into something else and our consciousness just ceases to exist.

Umm....does anyone else get a headache when thinking about this kind of stuff too long?
Nevermind, I'll just go do a lap of the tank and I'll have forgotten about it by the time I come back.

James.

[cainam_nazier]

"Umm....does anyone else get a headache when thinking about this kind of stuff too long?
Nevermind, I'll just go do a lap of the tank and I'll have forgotten about it by the time I come back."

That would be a "YES!"

I personally don't believe the soul carries on indefinatly.  But in the event it does lets look at it this way.

Well yes I suppose the soul could eventually get bored if it continued living, dieing, and reliving, again and again.  Eventually every thing would be learned and there would no longer be a point.

But now the alternate view.

Can any one honestly say that they are the exact same person they were last year?  Has nothing been learned or changed in you in tha time?  Surely there must be at least one thing, even if it is small, that has changed.  That being so, you are no longer the person you were last year.  This leads into the possability of repeating certain experiences that you have already had, but since now you are a different person, the experience "can" be a new one.  New light "could" be shed on this experience now because of the change that has occurred with in you.

The soul may work in the same way.  With each life the soul is changed and affected by that life.  In essience it becomes a new, different soul, open to different interpitations of the "possible" experiences.  In this way the cycle would never end because the soul would be differnt with passing.

That being said there still lays the possibility of intended re-occurrance.  What I mean by this is that even though, over the past year, you have changed there are still things you enjoy doing.  And you may even enjoy them into your next life.  Could the soul function at the same level?  What if your soul enjoyed being, let's say a doctor?  The possability is there that your soul could return just so that it could be a doctor again even though it has done so an uncountable number of times before.  Even if it is not learning or growing by the experience it could return simply for the joy of the experience.  Many of us repeat this same process every day.  We often do things that we gain no knowladge from, it doesn't add to, or change us in any way, but we do it anyway simply because we enjoy it.

[Spirit_Gurl]

yes i believe our souls are here because it is fun for them to live here. they want to live here so they do. no karma, not set cycles, its just kinda, hey! i wanna live in that one now! wheeee....

and i believe we remember our lives all of them, kinda like we remember our dreams... dont think about them all the time, but you know, enough so that it matters. we have other lives outside of our dreams.... do our souls have other 'lives' outside of our physical lives?
and if so, would that 'life' ever get boreing? think about it, we have ETERNITY. never ending. what are our souls supposed to do with all that endless time? even if we do such and such for what seems like forever, when we're done, we will still have FOREVER ahead of us.

right?

[Nightfall]

quote:Originally posted by Spirit_Gurl

then what'll we do?

Excellent questions. I wouldn't mind talking with you offline, feel free to email me (if you're interested in dialog).

But let me just say this, if you are interested in verifyable facts rather than theories and emotion, I'll be happy to tell you about the biblical Jesus and His purpose and plan for you.

Within the christian framework, I can first say that God loves you and values you. And that valuation gives you inherent worth. It gives you essential value. You are not mere furniture in the living room of the universe.

Second, Jesus said he is the resurrection and the life. The hope of the resurrection is that life is not meaningless, and there is the answer in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus.

Third, He promised that He would never leave those who believe upon him. He will give us strength and comfort even when our lives become chaotic.

[Spirit_Gurl]

which one of those is fact, exactly?

[Spirit_Gurl]

wow. i guess no one cares about my questions anymore.

[Tom]

It could easily be that I am wrong in my interpretation of things. Here it is anyway: No one here appears to be able to give answers to your liking, so we are all waiting to see if anyone else can give an answer you like.

[Spirit_Gurl]

yeah, about that, i'm sorry. i guess i sounded like a grump, but you gotta understand, im kinda having a spiritual crisis here. i mean, from what i understand, i have nothing to look forward to but an eternity of boredom, leaving my life, your live, and everyone else's current life on earth basically meaningless. which is really depressing. and im sorry, but when i get depressed, i just want answers. and when i dont get them, i get so frustrated, i just kinda snap at people. i apologise again, like i said, i seem to sound more upset online than i do in real life. but i still wasnt joking about the spiritual crisis thing..... theres nothing i can do. ive tried stuff, tried meditating, all that stuff, but it isnt working for me. and im thinking, 'oh great. now no one else understands my question, and they wont even help! i mean, only 5 people out of hundreds of people on this site replied! does anyone care? oh wait. who cares if they care? none of this will matter in the long run anyway, i mean, all i have to look forward to is an eternity of boredom! eventually, there will be nothing left to do.'

imagine how that feels? then maybe youll be able to answer my question better, or something. (im not being sarcastic, im serious.)
oh and if i sound like a grump, i apologise again.
i just want to know....[]

[Tom]

Our beliefs differ in some ways. You see karma as a way of saying that the universe is getting revenge, but that is not how it works as I learned it. In my religion, it means that there are causes and effects so if you want good effects it is necessary to create good causes. As an example, my religion teaches that all we have now is a result of having given in the past. As for reincarnation, my religion does not say that we are aware of all of our lives between lives. It is more of a continuation of this life just as dreams are. Then there is the matter of being an individual for eternity. In Buddhism this is declared impossible. Also, you believe in God but I do not. That at least covers some of the main points about which we do not agree.

What we do agree on is that there is more to existence than what appears to us physically through the senses. A few dollars in the bank, a house full of possessions, family and friends, a good job, and so on cannot provide lasting satisfaction even in one life. Endless repetition of these same things for eternity sounds terrible. Even worse, lacking those things and wanting them. We both agree that what matters more than possessions or lack of them is the person who has the ability to own things.

Taking another guess at what you mean by meaninglessness ... could it be a variety of non-existence?

[Spirit_Gurl]

meaninlessness... like, one more grain of sand added to a beach is meaninless. it doesnt matter, because there are so many other greains of sand along with it. whatever happened when you were two days old is meaningless to you now, because you cant remember it, and it is in the past. the concept of god is meaningless to you, because you dont believe in it. basically, if it doesnt matter, its meaningless.

so, like, even if each life is uniques, there will be SO MANY of them, we wont be able to think or care about them all, making them... meaningless. it would no longer matter if you gave a dollar to that poor guy on the bus, becase hes lived so many lives, its meaningless to him too....

and i dont believe in the cause or effect thing, either... (oops! another dont! dont be mad!)

[xx(]    

or will it? will it ever be boring, will we still find things to do for eternity, and will our lives still matter in the meantime?

we're talking FOREVER here. never ending. seems pretty impossible that we would never run out of things to do... no matter how long it takes. and the longer it takes, the farther this life as Tia and Tom get pushed into the past. the more insignificant they become.

[Tom]

So the grains of sand on the beach are not connected to each other in any way? Everything and everyone is completely disconnected and unable to influence anything or anyone? A dollar, a quarter, a bus, a bus stop, and everything else is alone?

So how did you reach your beliefs and do you change them as you learn new things?

[Spirit_Gurl]

not unconnected, its just that.... i cant explain. i do change my beliefes, but, im sorry, if you want me to change to your beliefs....

[Tom]

My beliefs have changed many times both from study and experience. When I say I believe something specific it is because I have had experiences which support them. Until then I say it is an idea I am considering. Some things are harder to establish than others, such as what it is like between lives. Others are fortunately easier. We have very different beliefs and I believe this is because we have had different experiences. Now I am asking how you reached the beliefs which you have described.

[Spirit_Gurl]

well, my expirience, what i feel makes sense, alittle bit of what others say that sounds logical, a little bit of stuff that i just kinda made up that sounds logical, and some scientific stuff, i guess. i do change my beliefs, but believe it or not, i believe alot of things-no, wait- KNOW alot of things. i just kinda add new beliefs on to my old ones, but if i ever saw a need to, id change them. but its not like they change all the time. i havened heard or seen anything that really challenges any of my true beliefs, the core of my beliefs, so i haven't changed them. []


no offense, but what does this have to do with my question? i'm still in the middle of my crisis, ya know.[]

[Tom]

The idea of God just freaks me out physically. I have a gut reaction to the idea. There was a time when I thought that people who believe in God were brain-dead creatures who somehow managed to cross streets without getting hit by traffic. The idea of God will always disturb me unless I can track down the reason why that is. As to the other thing, I chose to get more information before drawing such severe conclusions. Over time I have caused the idea of a God to disturb me less by challenging beliefs about God.

How did you conclude that between lives people know all of their lives and must deal with an infinity of time, making individual lives meaningless?

[Spirit_Gurl]

why exactly does that matter to you? when are people gonna answer my question? why do i need to answer yours?

[Tom]

I am still trying to determine what you are talking about.

[MJ-12]

as

[James S]

Tia,
As a thought to your original question, no I don't think we would be bored doing the same thing over and over again because I don't think it is possible for us to be able to do the same thing. The reason? everything changes all the time. Every second that passes by marks a change in something somewhere.

To stick a bit of Quantum theory in here, consider that our universe is not just one universe, but a multiverse. A possibly infinite number of parallel universes where something somewhere is different to our own. You could finish living in one and be reincarnated in another, and things would be different. You'd never be able to repeat anything from a past life.

As to if our life ends up being meaningless or not -  I could try to give you some deeply spiritual reason as to why I think this life will have great meaning when I pass on to the next.

I'm not going to though. Truth is I really don't give a toss!

I'm happy living this life now. I'm curious about what is beyond the physical world, and I believe there is some purpose for me both here and now, and there and then. For this reason I am taking steps now to learn what I can, and develop any psychic potential I might have that could be of use.

Beyond that, I have no real idea what is going to happen, and don't particularly care. I have been very happy letting what I believe is destiny or fate carry me along where it will. I do a little bit of stearing from time to time, but otherwise just go with the current.

I learned some years ago not to clutter my mind with what might be. It only serves as a distraction from the things that are important in your life now, and more often than not leads to worrying or depression. NOTHING about the future is carved in stone. Do what you believe is right for you to do now and get as much happiness out of it as you can. That way you can at least look back at your life with happy thoughts and fond memories, and that is far from being meaningless.

Besides, if it really does end up all being meaningless, then your not going to care about it anyway, so why bother giving it so much thought now?

James.