Religion and Peace

[Ravyn]

Don't expect comments from me here. This is a survey I'm conducting and letting people debate on. I am tallying the results January 14th and within a week from then hopefully I will post the results in this thread as well as other places scattered across the internet.

Without religion would we be closer to world peace?

Answer the question and feel free to debate!

[Achak]

Interesting. I wanted to click yes, but that wouldn't entirely be true. Religion has brought a lot order and a lot chaos. In reality, it's ideology, not necessarily religion. Religion is a result of ideology.

As long as people have different opinions and they take harmful action upon such ideas, then no, even without religion there wouldn't be any peace.

Religion often times is used as an excuse or a means to an end - Just as any organization is used i.e. government

Until human beings come to a point in which control and power are no longer central ways of living, peace won't be attainable. There will always be someone fighting for an idea because they feel that idea is better than all the others. Or, they wan't something out of it.

Even though I don't like organized religion for myself, I think in the right mindset and style it can be a very productive and healthy way to live for some as long as no one is harmed.

Ultimately, the answer would be no. Even without religion, world peace would not be attainable.

[Stookie_]

It's hard to answer, because if religion didn't exist someone would probably create it. Like it's a part of human nature. Even without religion people tend to be superstitious. We also argue on social and political levels that have nothing to do with religion.

So no... it would take a lot more than getting rid of religion for world peace. Stupidity would still run rampant.

[CFTraveler]

In reality, it's ideology, not necessarily religion.
Stupidity would still run rampant.

I concur.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Religion does set good standards to follow however those who misinterpret its meanings do so to the loss of its sanctity.
I'd hate to see a massive dictatorship in its place as there are factions that welcome this.
Originally science and religion were hand in hand but the split seems to have made them almost extreme.
My vote after many years of life would be to stay neutral at this time but leaning towards its existence is good.

[Karas]

This is alittle hard to answer. Yes religion kills spirituality and destroys peace. But look at the ones who are not part of a religion. They think they are gods and can rule everyone else. So the question is invalid. Humans should know what is good and what is not. 

[wicked_one]

Religion can be a good idea until some wacko comes and says he talks to God on the phone and he knows best and "come on, everybody, let's follow this guy cause he knows stuff that we don't and we accept it as fact without evidence" and then everybody commits suicide in the name of "God" and here we are, 7 billion of us minus some poor losers. So that's good!

But yes, I think religion caused way too much wars and grief and sadness in the world. As George Carlin said "Do you believe in my God? No...*stabs him* My God has a bigger d**k than your God!".

A world without religion sounds pretty interesting to me.

[majour ka]

The heart of any religion is based on peace, peace of mind, compassion, harmony, enlightenment and betterment of the human condition etc.

But we tend to acknowledge and notice the fanatical side and the aspects of religion that cause problems and divisions .

We are less able to measure the peace harmony, healing and positive effect it has on the sanity of the collective human consciousness.
I believe despite the problems it can cause, the positive effects should out way the downsides, so I would say NO.

Mind you, many people seem to be emerging into a new consciousness and awakening spiritually to some degree without any particular religion...and along as there is religion there will be division. But I still say NO in the greater scheme of things.

[dreamingod]

The Bible is a book of contradictions. Probe further and you will see that similar stories to those in the bible have been used throughout history predating Jesus by different Governments, rulers to unite and control people, to strengthen and expand their political power eg. Roman Emperor Constantine convened the First Council of Nicaea, using the new established Christian doctrines expanded the Roman Empire - present day Western Powers, Vatican and political systems.

Read my post on: Religion & Astrotheology
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090

Our culture has been largely dictated by religion based on astrotheology, where the masses believe in 'dogma' (unquestionable belief systems)
which moulds their perceptions, attitudes and ego.
It promotes separatism, ignorance, the 'little person' psyche who needs a 'saviour' and encourages (religious) war.


Christianity teaches the belief that as human, a born sinner, you need to worship a God who hates sin,
and the only way to redeem yourself is to emulate perfect 'Jesus' to qualify for heaven.

This mentality perpetuates these attitudes:
-> you got to do a lot of living, consuming before you die, or
-> feel guilty when you have too much resources & must give your wealth away,
     normally to the ever expanding Church institutions while millions of people keep on suffering in poverty around the world.
-> Support war according to the religous leader's interpretation of the religious doctrines.
-> Suffering is normal
-> any form of esoteric knowledge and practice is 'evil'
-> Only Jesus, an external 'saviour' figure can save you. You must pray to a divine being for a good life.
-> It discourages people taking responsibility for themselves, and give their power away.

~

[Rudolph]

The VAST majority of war and violence has almost nothing to do with religion.

Mao Tse Tung was the world's biggest mass murderer (75 -100 million killed) and he was an ATHEIST.

Josef Stalin was at a distant second in the mass murder category at about 20 million killed ... and he was an ATHEIST.

Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).

Idi Amin (about 300,000 killed) and most African wars were tribal, ethnic oriented conflicts.

etc., etc.

[dreamingod]

Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).
etc., etc.

While the core foundation of Christianity teaches love, peace and forgiveness, the very fact that it is organised, it is run by men and their greed and lust for money and power is a reflection of the current human condition.
Religion has mass cult -like following, where this 'dogma' is proclaimed as proof of 'God's' plan for humanity, enables religious leaders such as the Pope in the Vatican to impose his interpretation of these religious doctrines on the followers and in 'government' policies, and thus shapes our culture.

The Christian bible is put together by the Roman Empire (Roman Emperor Constantine during the Council of Nicaea) and is full of contradictions.
While it teaches Christins to love God and all people with all their hearts, mind and soul,
theses doctrines also perpetuate guilt, fear, obedience to the Church (do not think for oneself) and separatism.
Eg. Anti-gay, must defend beliefs against other religions, only Christian God is the real God,
all people are a born sinners (we inherited Adam and Eve's original sin and their condition of toil and struggle) -> must pray to Jesus and God to save you from suffering,
to question the authenticity of the bible = weak faith in God mentality.

Our legal system, particularly 'Trust Laws' are based on the Vatican's (original Roman Empire) application of bible and creation of corporations.
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4092#msg4092


Please watch these 'Astromythology' videos in the linked post http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2896.msg4090#msg4090.

Definition of dogma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma


The 'Cruscades'  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades and continuing conflict in 'Israel' exemplifies theses religious sponsored wars and serve the agendas of the powers that be (collectively termed 'Illuminati' 'Zionist bankers' 'Vatican' and their extensive corporations).




The Vatican, Zionist - International bankers and their corporations are the secret controllers behind the western government system (adopted from the Roman Empire) manipulating people's perceptions to justify war and enforce this debt-slavery usury system.
This is no longer a conspiracy theory because more people realise the connection between corporations, International bankers (Zionist), Federal Reserve, IMF and World Bank.

Watch video:  MONEY = DEBT = SLAVERY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BT9E1SRrXU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqhX4FUj3fQ&feature=related

Hitler, Zionist, Internal bankers, Federal Reserve and War connection:
http://www.henrymakow.com/001936.html
http://finnics7.blogstream.com/


~

Since my spontaneous AWAKEning OOBE
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/what_are_your_achievements_and_discoveries-t25297.0.html;msg298472#msg298472  no 9.
I have broken away from mass hypnosis from materialist 'Newtonian' (physical reality is made up of solid stuff)
'Darwinian' (life = competition and struggle to survive), and the Christian bible (doctrines) hold on my mind.





I no-longer view any form of 'esoteric' knowledge and practice as 'evil' (King Soloman in the bible put to death many mediums).

I no-longer define myself as a 'Christian'.

Through OOBE, phasing, remote viewing (deemed Occult practices by Christians) I embrace 'spiritualism' in its fullest expression.
I perceive no division between people (which Religion in deed perpetuates) and have come to the profound and empowering realisation:

We indeed live in a divine universe, and that
our relationship with the notion of "GOD" is not "out there" but intrinsically "in here."
By the very act of thinking, perceiving and feeling we apply free will, and
our divine ability to create the experiential Universe of motion and things.

This expansive realisation through self-discovery is 'spiritualism'  on a personal level,
and releases the soul from the hidden prison (perpetuated by dogma) in our minds.



dreamingod

I am the reflection of you, you are the reflection of me,
and together we all create universal memories.

   
*** My journey down the rabbit hole only to find myself
http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2565.msg4108#msg4108

~

-edited to correct linked post url & added picture of 'prisons of mind - and group think'

[Karas]

Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).

Hitler stated:

"We will not allow mystically-minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else—in any case something which has nothing to do with us"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_religious_views

[majour ka]

The Bible is a book of contradictions. Probe further and you will see that similar stories to those in the bible have been used throughout history predating Jesus by different Governments, rulers to unite and control people, to strengthen and expand their political power eg. Roman Emperor Constantine convened the First Council of Nicaea, using the new established Christian doctrines expanded the Roman Empire - present day Western Powers, Vatican and political systems.

I agree, Jesus wasn't a christian but like many other god realised enlightened beings who went through a spiritual transformation... whose teachings then became the foundation of  a religion...the teachings were almost certainly miss understood and barstardised or lost in translation, both innocently and on purpose for the use of power.
It is said that a certain Roman ruler altered the chapters on reincarnation to gain control over her subjects.

The ironic thing is while there is still a wealth of spiritual teaching to be found in the bible and other systems, we need to attain a certain level of enlightenment our selves before understanding them...so we might consider such scriptures as sign post for direction and possibly a measures of how far we have come once they make sense.

[dreamingod]

Watch this video:

Summarises "Zionism" and the terror on humanity.
Used by the 'Zionist' International bankers, Vatican and their cohorts (another name 'Illuminati') as excuse for continuing war
and the 'global manipulators' of the petrol-fiat monetary debt-slave usury system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfvAz4JvkH8&feature=player_embedded


Read post: Vatican Lies Illuminated
http://vatican-evil-illuminated.blogspot.com/


If you don't realise by now after reading these linked articles and watching these linked revealing videos,
the Zionist, Vatican- Pope, Jesuits are all occultist.

Just follow all the symbology in our media, movies, music videos, on government buildings,
corporate logos, religious places of worship.
These symbology can be traced to 'astromythology' which Religious organisations are proclaiming to be
doctrines inspired by the holy spirit, therefore from God, the Logos.
- Some of the core teachings are, but most are applied by sick evil men who run world governements!

~Set yourself free by being informed and question all information.

[Ident]

The OP makes no comment on what he's asking about. Is he presuming we'll comment on organised religion or on religious thinking? For me, religion is as simple as some primate finding a rationale to assure loved ones that the sun will come up the next morning as it rides its eternal chariot into the earth and back around to the skies again.

Religion has, in essence, ever been a source of spiritual nurturing or comfort and we would be in a worse place without it. Even amongst spiritualists and seekers into alternate realities there comes a point for each of us where we cross over from certain, personal knowledge to conjecture and acceptance of the statements of others. I tend to think that somewhere around those points we drift over into religion.

[Fresco]

The VAST majority of war and violence has almost nothing to do with religion.

Mao Tse Tung was the world's biggest mass murderer (75 -100 million killed) and he was an ATHEIST.

Josef Stalin was at a distant second in the mass murder category at about 20 million killed ... and he was an ATHEIST.

Hitler barely makes a blip on the radar at 7 million murdered and he was an OCCULTIST (those who claim he was Christian are full of baloney).

Idi Amin (about 300,000 killed) and most African wars were tribal, ethnic oriented conflicts.

etc., etc.

Napoleon was  atheist also.  Or at the very least was not religious

[dreamingod]

Napoleon was  atheist also.  Or at the very least was not religious

Religion does not necessarily = spiritualism.
It is organised, governed by men pushing their own interests and agendas.
It preaches a set of established doctrines as being absolute truth.
Governments, together with religious leaders use their own interpretation to set policies, law and social control infrastructure.


Atheism does not necessarily = no spiritulism
It may be anti State-Religion controlled.

What is spiritualism?
In my own opinion, this is a personal 'self discovery' process of understanding one's connection with creation/divinity.
Spiritulism transcends any one religion and does not seek approval from man-made religious organisations.
It is an internal process of liberating the soul and finding peace.


History is written by the winners.
The Vatican won Napoleon lost.
http://cominganarchy.com/2007/04/03/napoleon-vs-the-vatican/


Napolean was an enlightened man and appears to be spiritualist.
Napolean was against the Vatican and the Papal States.
So yes, he was anti-Papal Sates, anti-religious because he understood religion was a means to control other men.
He was very ambitious and wanted to be his own ruler. He had the desires of men for power.


*** Have you noticed how these religious leaders and government officials don't readily apply what they so loudly preach.

  eg. * Vatican (Catholic) sponsored war, The Cruscades
        * Zionist (International bankers, Vatican) use U.S./U.N./E.U. > Political manipulated wars using Israel as justification.
        * Pedophilia in the Churches
        * Vatican wealth estimated in excess of £2,000,000,000 http://www.fireandhammer.com/vatican_wealth.htm
           while almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day  (2008) http://www.globalissues.org/article/26/poverty-facts-and-stats


Napoleon's Quotes:
A thorough reading and understanding of the Bible is the surest path to atheism.
All religions have been made by men.
Religion is what keeps the poor man from murdering the rich.
Imagination rules the world.
The best cure for the body is a quiet mind.

http://thinkexist.com/quotes/napoleon_bonaparte/

[Rudolph]

"eg. * Vatican (Catholic) sponsored war, The Cruscades
        * Zionist (International bankers, Vatican) use U.S./U.N./E.U. > Political manipulated wars using Israel as justification.
        * Pedophilia in the Churches
        * Vatican wealth estimated in excess of £2,000,000,000 http://www.fireandhammer.com/vatican_wealth.htm"

============

* This is pure anti-Catholic bigotry and wall to wall DECEPTION.

* The Vatican "wealth" estimated at "£2,000,000,000" is based on priceless frescos and artwork on the walls of the ancient buildings that they hold and NOT on actual bank or investment holdings.

* In actual money the Vatican is more like lower middle class in World Finance Circles.

* The Crusades were a plain and simple act of European self defense against scimitar wielding marauding invaders cutting off the heads of those who would not bow to their prophet. And... the Vatican did not even exist at that time...

* Guess which world clergy children are SAFEST with? ... thats right... Catholic Priests. Don't believe the LIARS!
http://www.amazon.com/Pedophiles-Priests-Anatomy-Contemporary-Crisis/dp/0195145976/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373232&sr=1-1


* Do NOT listen to the hate filled anti-Catholic bigots;
http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373318&sr=1-2

[dreamingod]

* Do NOT listen to the hate filled anti-Catholic bigots;
http://www.amazon.com/New-Anti-Catholicism-Last-Acceptable-Prejudice/dp/0195176049/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1327373318&sr=1-2

The tone of you post is 'hateful' and prejudiced.

To share experiences, point out how religion, not just Christianity is based on 'Astromythology',
the Vatican & Zionist connection between the Trust Laws, debt-slavery system, Federal Reserve Bank,
and the present Political social-economical structure is not hate driven.

It is love driven.
A plea for people to wake up and take responsibility for themselves and not let
government (mind control agents)
to 'lead us into temptation; but deliver us from evil'
      -as well as dogma associated with Astrotheology and Newtonian-Darwinian belief systems.

-------
from Latinised Greek:

gubernatio means "management, government"
mente means "mind"

Government = Mind Control
-------


How can I hate, when some of my family still call themselves 'Catholic' and 'Christian'


My spiritual awakening shattered most of what I held to be true as a (former)
Christian and Materialist (belief in Newtonian Physics).


I believe and apply the core values of Christianity: love, tolerance and forgiveness, and discard the fear, guilt-sin & hell doctrine.
These loving principles when applied genuinely will create 'Heaven on Earth',
but for the men who control governments and the petrol-fiat monetary system.

The common religious principles of love, tolerance, and forgiveness leads to 'spiritulism' and is a service to humanity.
The Religious hierarchical political 'corporate' model, together with its resounding message of
fear, punishment, guilt, sin and hell perpetuates 'a servant mentality'
who must obey his master eg. The Pope, Government, Elitist and not question the authenticity of these religious doctrines.


I think the time is right for humanity as 'one consciousness' to release their 'saviour' figure and
save themselves from social manipulations and mass-hypnosis by Religious and Political Governments machinations,
and truly liberate their souls from limitation, and 'Astrotheology'.


Please watch these videos: Astromythology
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lsOJMyM6ZI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXkZwXfLcfY&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnlUAgqPwI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDJ9H3aLWxE&feature=player_embedded

[Ident]

The existence of perverted religious organisations has little bearing on this discussion.

I'll quote this from an online dictionary...
"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Who here can truly claim to be irreligious? As I stated earlier, due to our personal researches into the extended reality, most of us here have knowledge, rather than belief, on many aspects which many people have barely even inklings of. However, for each of us, there comes a point where we rely on conjecture and hearsay to fill in our gaps. This is the essence of religion, when we take conjecture and a lack of certain knowledge as a framework for further supposition.

[zareste]

It's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately cultural predators such as religious groups have twisted society so much that people show religious behavior even without worshiping anyone. The same people who run churches - telling people they're made by a deranged entity from dirt - are also running universities and calling people monkeys.

About world peace - if you have any dignity, you feel uneasy when you hear the phrase 'world peace' because it simply means 'world compromise' - a state where everyone lives around people they don't know (or like) and agrees not to kill each other. But compromise doesn't work when people are intruding on each other's lives, so essentially it's a waiting game to see who goes on a rampage first.

[Xanth]

I don't usually say this often, but Zareste is correct.

There will never be world peace as long as religion exists.  There will never be world peace as long as people are "different" in some way.

It's not about bringing the world together.  It's about bringing yourself together.  You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.

[Rudolph]

Wow! Karas. You quoted only the opening sentence and then left off the rest that shows how Hitler was indeed an Occultist!
The part you quoted was reflecting his opposition to other occult groups outside the Nazi movement. Only *his* movement was sanctioned and there were plenty of occult doings going on.

The next sentence from your quote;

Other scholars believe the young Hitler was strongly influenced, particularly in his racial views, by an abundance of occult works on the mystical superiority of the Germans, like the occult and anti-Semitic magazine Ostara, and give credence to the claim of its publisher Lanz von Liebenfels that Hitler visited him in 1909 and praised his work.[94] Indeed, evidence indicates Hitler was a regular reader of Ostara.[95]

and

Donovan was a senior member of the U.S. prosecution team and had compiled large amounts of evidence that Nazis persecuted Christian Churches.[

[Rudolph]

The tone of you post is 'hateful' and prejudiced.

No its not. It was a simple refutation of plain flat out errors on your part. Simple line by line facts that make the fiction you are posting easy to see for the nonsense that it is, is neither hateful nor prejudiced -- just historical and contemporary facts.
The content of your post is pure fiction, and easily qualifies as bigotry and hate speech. To simply throw the accusation back with no valid source to back it up is silly and childish.

It is love driven.

It is pure fiction. (a pack of common, garden variety bigotry and hatespeech).

The nonsense about the Bible in your posts is non-stop falsehood. The Council of Nicea in 325 AD accepted the long extant Muratorian Canon in full, and added other books on top for good measure (like the Hebrew Epistles and Revelation). It was the Protestant Lutherans who threw out books they didn't like. You need to get your facts straight.

A plea for people to wake up and take responsibility for themselves ...

That is good advice. But I did not find any practical advice on how to do that in your links. Just streams of misinformation.

How can I hate, when some of my family still call themselves 'Catholic' and 'Christian'

Easy. I see it all the time. This is not an unusual phenomenon.

These loving principles when applied genuinely will create 'Heaven on Earth',

There is not much love to be found in that stream of misinformation.

I think the time is right for humanity as 'one consciousness' to release their 'saviour' figure and
save themselves from social manipulations and mass-hypnosis by Religious and Political Governments machinations,
and truly liberate their souls from limitation, and 'Astrotheology'.

That astrotheology stuff may be one thing (dubious validity) but I agree that waking up and breaking free from the mass hypnosis is a good idea. That pyramid shows a bunch of sheep as "debt slaves" and falsely states "you are here".
I am debt free. I have been for a long time. I live in a beautiful lodge in the mountains with a breathtaking view and have two four wheel drive vehicles to navigate the terrain. I have not worked in the system or drawn a paycheck for nearly ten years. I pay the bills in mysterious ways that my family and friends are in awe over.

Obsessing over some government conspiracy laced with bigotry and hate speech is not a good way to get started on breaking free from the system.

[Rudolph]

There will never be world peace as long as religion exists

There will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.

It's not about bringing the world together.  It's about bringing yourself together.  You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.

This is true. The world will change when individuals change. And real change requires an incredible amount of hard work. So I am not holding my breath.