Religion and Peace

[dreamingod]

Don't expect comments from me here. This is a survey I'm conducting and letting people debate on. I am tallying the results January 14th and within a week from then hopefully I will post the results in this thread as well as other places scattered across the internet.

Without religion would we be closer to world peace?

Answer the question and feel free to debate!

The survey and topic is about:
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?

So this question is in the context of the effects of religion on the masses, world population.


It is undeniable that most if not all the members of this forum, through a process of self discovery and
astral explorations have defined themselves beyond the limiting defintions of man's realtionship to 'God'
taught by the main stream religious doctrines.

However most people who belong to these religious organisations (register membership)
have not broken out of mass-hypnosis because they absolutely acccept the position of
these doctrines such as the Bible and Torah as literal fact, not allegory http://www.thefreedictionary.com/allegory.
I discuss the bible because I, like most Christians who regularly attended Sunday mass at Church, were taught
that the Bible authors were inspired by the Holy Spirity.

The 2 common and self-limiting attitudes that most Christians hold are:
Every person is born a sinner (through disobedience to 'God', inherited Adam and Eve's original sin and human condition of toil and struggle),
Occult practises are sinful. Spiritualist and Mediums are the Devil's agents (recurring theme thorughout bible).

Fear of punishment from God, and guilt being a sinner are some of the main reasons
why many Christians do not investigate our natural spiritual rights and abilities such as OOBE, phasing.

Such fear and guilt complexes can manifest experiences for the believer.
One reported seeing demons http://www.in5d.com/forum/index.php?topic=2867.0
If people knew, these perceived 'evil' entities are products of their psyche and can removed by a process of self discovery.


Religion, in most people's mind refer to World Religions http://www.religioustolerance.org/worldrel.htm, not necessarily spiritulism.
When people are asked what religous persuasion do they follow, they normally identify with these mainstream groups,
Christianity is bar far the dominant religion (see lined map), and thus inform public policy, law, and politics.

Christian core values of forgiveness, tolerance and love facilitates a more social cohesive community,
but the 'self-appointed' authority of the establishment, The Vatican promotes 'separatism' in a world context,
and enforces a debt-slavery system. Why? It is run by men who have vast interests in the banking system. Power and profits.

To be fair the Vatican http://www.toughissues.org/handoutsnew/Wealthy%20Church.htm and the Khazars (Zionist Bankers) http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm are the World Bankers and the power brokers behind global agendas.
This is not conspiracy.
The Federal Reserve Central Banks is a private organisation owned by http://theunjustmedia.com/Banking%20&%20Federal%20Reserve/The%20Federal%20Reserve%20is%20Privately%20owned.htm

Rothschild Bank of London

Warburg Bank of Hamburg

Rothschild Bank of Berlin

Lehman Brothers of New York

Lazard Brothers of Paris
   
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York

Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy

Goldman, Sachs of New York

Warburg Bank of Amsterdam

Chase Manhattan Bank of New York


The Government: Election and Political process.
Do people actually have a choice, and vote their political representatives in,
so their views could be actually represented and applied in public policy?
The 2 party election system is adopted from the Roman Political system. Minor parties do not really have much success of getting in.
There is the illusion that people have a choice, but the tendency for politicians to 'do whatever they want' despite pre-election promises
are far too frequent and blatant for people to miss.

* Did the American people vote for continued war (more like invasions)?
-> Ron Paul growing number of supporters is an example.

* Do the American soldiers feel justified in their occupation of these unfortunate countries?
Here is an example of their views:
AMAZING SPEECH BY WAR VETERAN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akm3nYN8aG8



-Break free from mass-hypnosis perpetuated by Governments and
the real people & their corporations who control it.-
Think for yourself!


-----------------
Know that you alone can only help yourself through self discovery, and
a willingness to scrutinise your belief systems and redefine yourself accordingly.

You will experience what you believe to be true, because we live in a Mental World of pure consciousness.
-----------------


We each are much blessed, not born sinners, and much loved.
It is the degree that we explore ourselves and our connection with Source,
that we grow to understand how divine and free we are.
It is the state of mind.


World peace can be achieved when we each take responsibility and think for ourselves.
We save ourselves by realising reality is what we believe it to be.
Instead of being convinced that Governments have the moral right and represent the views of the people,
we should remove these artificial mental boundaries between people, countries, religious groups, status
by perceiving all people as one people, one family as we are all connected in spirit.

[Rudolph]

The survey and topic is about:
Without religion would we be closer to world peace?

So this question is in the context of the effects of religion on the masses, world population.

Actually, for those who understand how these things really work, the question is in the context of the effects of the masses on religion.

If you could snap your fingers and have any and all traces of all religion (memory, everything...) dissolved into thin air in an instant the masses would immediately set to work rebuilding an almost indistinguishable replica of the old belief systems.

The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.

Christianity is bar far the dominant religion (see lined map), and thus inform public policy, law, and politics.

And Christian nations are obviously the most civilized countries in the world, it is is a good thing they do.

The Federal Reserve Central Banks is a private organisation owned by (insert misleading propaganda here)

This is blatant half-truth. Why don't you give the rest of the story on how the Board is chosen and representation is divvied up? You don't because it is not so alarmist when the entire story is divulged.

Did the American people vote for continued war (more like invasions)?

Yes. When they voted for Bush for a second term. Those invasions were completely justified. Maybe not so well thought out but completely justified.

on and on...

so much bullpucky out there....

[dreamingod]

Truth is subjective.

All sorts of information is presented.
It is up to the individual to consider the available information, investigate further, and make up their own minds.

Ultimately, each person will experience what s/he wants to believe or is convinced to believe,
because we each experience a subjective reality.

Since reality is 'illusory' (no real solidiity) in nature,
'peace' is ultimately attained by 'peace of mind' and 'knowingness.'


This forum and others like this one, facillitates 'peace of mind' and 'knowingness.'

Thanks to all here, who are helping people realise more of their potential as 'spiritual beings'
through OOBE, phasing, astral projection, lucid dreaming, remote viewing and more.



~

[Karas]

There will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.


This is true. The world will change when individuals change. And real change requires an incredible amount of hard work. So I am not holding my breath.

What your saying is both true and false.

The goverment controls 2 groups:
religious groups and the non-religious groups. Now have you not relized that the pope and others go to the goverment meetings to sort out things within the churches?

Both the goverment and religious leaders are trapping the minds of all and your right "

There will always be religion as long as there are people.
The problem isn't religion. The problem is people.

"

And it's people who try and interpret the text to suit the there agenda. Look at the pope and how he demonise spirituilty and not only that but we get bunch of christains telling other Christains how to interpret the bible and demonise each other... Religion plays a huge part in this and your just turning away from the truth. No christain is like Jesus infact no one follows his yogi ways >_>  

Now let's look at one of the false christ called Paul has to say.

Romans 13
" All of you must be willing to obey completely those who rule over you. There are no authorities except the ones God has chosen. Those who now rule have been chosen by God.
2 So when you oppose the authorities, you are opposing those whom God has appointed. Those who do that will be judged.
3 If you do what is right, you won't need to be afraid of your rulers. But watch out if you do what is wrong! You don't want to be afraid of those in authority, do you? Then do what is right. The one in authority will praise you.
4 He serves God and will do you good. But if you do wrong, watch out! The ruler doesn't carry a sword for no reason at all. He serves God. And God is carrying out his anger through him. The ruler punishes anyone who does wrong.
5 You must obey the authorities. Then you will not be punished. You must also obey them because you know it is right.
6 That's also why you pay taxes. The authorities serve God. Ruling takes up all their time."

No religion = no power over minds and the goverment will lose control over there subjects.

And I totally agree with you, only we can change but for that change we need to get ride of rubbish that traps us into duality.


The Great Dictator by Charlie Chaplin

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsYAdS8tmmI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Ident]

You're still discussing religious organisations, past and present, rather than the innate need for religion of a thinking being.

Religion comes into existence as soon as you attempt to formulate an explanation for why anything is the way it is. We can't really exist without it.

The powers that be (have been, will be) will always use methods to control and subjugate that they deem effective and efficient. Perversion of religion has been one of the most effective in modern Western history.

[AndrewTheSinger]

Define 'world peace'. A place where everyone is loving and caring for one another all the time? How can that happen in a reality where the needs of our bodies are our main concern? A beast will kill to serve its needs, and so will a lawless or impious man. One of the things that distinguishes men from beasts is our responsibility to be ethical, due to the understanding that there may be a greater purpose to our earthly existence, that maybe we're being observed, and our actions now will determine our destiny in this life and in the next one.

So, to answer your question, no, you can remove everything from the mortal world and you won't get peace, because this is a deficient type of existence, where senseless people struggle in vain against death by destroying one another.

[Fresco]

I don't usually say this often, but Zareste is correct.

There will never be world peace as long as religion exists.  There will never be world peace as long as people are "different" in some way.

It's not about bringing the world together.  It's about bringing yourself together.  You only have the power to change yourself... but through that, is the way to change the world.

If the entire world practiced positive Law of Attraction I think we could eventually have world peace

[Killa Rican]

It's not a 100% human error. Observe history. If you really believe in a metaphysical reality. Then you will realize some of it is human nature, and some of it isn't. "Deitys" or the entitys we perceive them to be put strange thoughts into peoples heads to begin with.

[Stookie_]

If the entire world practiced positive Law of Attraction I think we could eventually have world peace

That would only work if everyone had the same intentions, but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls. This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life. If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do).

Things just aren't so cut and dry. Perhaps everything is happening exactly the way it was supposed to and we're just complaining because it doesn't fit our ideal world. It would be nice to have a bigger picture to look at.

[Ident]

The problem most worthy of being solved is that people wish for problem-free lives.

As for the rest, remember that how someone treats you is their karma; how you respond is your karma. A semblance of harmony on Earth might be attained if more people simply gave a moment's thought to the greater good before acting or reacting.

[Rudolph]

Look at the pope and how he demonise spirituilty

I look at the Pope and I do not see him demonizing spirituality. Please back that bigotry and hate-speech up with something real. (But you won't... because it is not true)

The goverment controls 2 groups:
religious groups and the non-religious groups. Now have you not relized that the pope and others go to the goverment meetings to sort out things within the churches?

This is pure drivel (and bigotry). The government has a job to do and the Pope has a job to do and sometimes their jobs require cooperation. Groups working together is a natural inclination among humans since ancient times. Sometimes things work out well and sometimes not so well.

Big fish eat the little fish. The entire scheme of life on planet Earth is built on conflict and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

Individuals who sit around pointing the finger of blame at outside organizations as the source of the world's problems are delusional. This is the first step in the Co-dependent blame game that enables and empowers these outside groups. This sort of 'victim mentality' is self destructive and those who wallow in this victim consciousness have ceded their responsibility to The World and walk away from their birthright to a Higher State of Consciousness.

The truly enlightened accept personal responsibility for their own lives and circumstances and get busy doing the HARD WORK of learning and growing in Consciousness and Awareness.

The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...

[Karas]

I look at the Pope and I do not see him demonizing spirituality. Please back that bigotry and hate-speech up with something real. (But you won't... because it is not true)

This is pure drivel (and bigotry). The government has a job to do and the Pope has a job to do and sometimes their jobs require cooperation. Groups working together is a natural inclination among humans since ancient times. Sometimes things work out well and sometimes not so well.

Big fish eat the little fish. The entire scheme of life on planet Earth is built on conflict and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change that.

Individuals who sit around pointing the finger of blame at outside organizations as the source of the world's problems are delusional. This is the first step in the Co-dependent blame game that enables and empowers these outside groups. This sort of 'victim mentality' is self destructive and those who wallow in this victim consciousness have ceded their responsibility to The World and walk away from their birthright to a Higher State of Consciousness.

The truly enlightened accept personal responsibility for their own lives and circumstances and get busy doing the HARD WORK of learning and growing in Consciousness and Awareness.

The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/film/story/2010/01/12/avatar-vatican.html

What really annoys me is the fact this old fart thinks he has the right to tell anyone anything... Don't get personal... He's is only human who thinks he has divine powers to tell people how to live and what to demonise

 8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.

9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.

10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.

11The greatest among you will be your servant. 

12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 

[Fresco]

That would only work if everyone had the same intentions, but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls. This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life. If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do)

Sorry, but I completely disagree with all this

[Rudolph]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/film/story/2010/01/12/avatar-vatican.html

What really annoys me is the fact this old fart thinks he has the right to tell anyone anything... Don't get personal... He's is only human who thinks he has divine powers to tell people how to live and what to demonise

None of the quotes you gave support your earlier claim about "the Pope ... demonizing spirituality". It is not getting personal to ask someone to back up their false claims. It is not personal to identify a bigoted statement as being a bigoted statement.
Your bogus claim now stands as proof of your dishonest position on this.
Note also that your insulting and disrespectful words say more about you than the man you try to denigrate.

It is not that the Pope "thinks he has the right to tell anyone anything" -- as leader of a very large and very ancient religious Tradition it is his responsibility to inform the faithful on those Traditions to the best of his ability. Someone has to do it. Otherwise it would cease to be an Ancient Tradition. I think he knows he is only human... probably more so than the arrogant deceivers who go around spreading Lies and bigoted hate-speech about that ancient Faith. (If these things were said about ANY other world religion there would be an uproar of indignation here. This is really unbelievable).

[Xanth]

I think that link Karas posted makes her point perfectly.

Rudy, I think you just love to complain... 

[Lionheart]

 Once again the topic of Religion causing disagreements. That is the simple reason I decide to stay clear of it. 

[Szaxx]

Agreed,
The stirring of a hornets nest is very unwise...

[Fresco]

Once again the topic of Religion causing disagreements. That is the simple reason I decide to stay clear of it. 

Religion and politics brings out the worst in people

[Ident]

Until everyone has resolved their karma, which might never come to pass, the world will always have both silly people and greedy people in it to do silly and greedy things.

I accept that some might consider this to be a religious viewpoint. 

[Stookie_]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with all this

Cool, but what exactly about it do you not agree with? I'm not trying to antagonize or be negative, but no one can learn anything without ideas being expressed.

[Thread Killer]

The stagnant and lazy sit around obsessing over Evil Corporations, Government, bad parents, old boyfriends, artificial sweeteners... on and on...
Rudolph; I'm not a fan of your angry rhetoric, but the above line is awesome. Show us more of that keen sense of humour. ...artificial sweeteners...nice.

[CFTraveler]

I have to side with Rudolph on this one too.
The Pope is the spiritual leader of a large and established religious organization, not some self-appointed guru who took upon himself the task of telling people what to do- and as such it is his job and duty to make proclamations about  spiritual and social matters.   If he didn't, he would not be doing his job.  No one forces anyone to follow his declarations, that's why we have freedom of religion, you don't even have to agree or like what he says.

[Fresco]

That would only work if everyone had the same intentions

This I agree on, but thats a given since I already acknowledge the fact the entire earth would have to practice positive Law of Attraction

but everyone would be trying to attract different things and where one person comes out on top, another falls

Disagree with you there, in an ever expanding universe there are enough "things" to satisfy everyone, and all people should come out on top.  

Keep in mind that not everyone cares about being a billionaire, some do and some dont.  I personally would be happy with just 10 to 20 million $

This world is about balance, not everyone having what they want. You have the bad so you can have the good. You have to take both in life

No, the good and the bad would both simultanously be raised to a much higher standard of living

If everything in your life was perfect, you would create problems that didn't exist (like many people do)

Wrong, because when you practice positive LOA you simply cannot attract negative things in your life. Its impossible, because it breaks the fundamental rule of the "Law of Attraction".

The problem is the vast majority of the world today practices negative LOA by default.  Thats why the world is in the mess its in right now

[Fresco]

And just to get back on topic, would eliminating religion throughout the world reign in peace and stop wars??  The answer is 'no'.  And here's why:

Can you name one war in 20th century that was fought over religion??  I cant even think of one, to be honest.

WW1 was fought over real estate (Europe)
WW2 was also fought over real estate, but more globally
Korean war was fought over geopolitics
Vietnam war was fought to stop the spread of communism.  So it was over idealogy
Iraq wars 1 & 2 were fought over oil....oopss.....I mean weapons of mass destruction  
Afghan war was fought to stop terrorism

So ditching religion will have very little effect on warfare.  And even though I believe in God, I have very little sympathy for religion or going to church

[Rudolph]

Iraq wars 1 & 2 were fought over oil....oopss.....I mean weapons of mass destruction  
Afghan war was fought to stop terrorism...

This whole post is actually a fairly astute assessment of the situation.
But just fyi - Saddam had lots of WMDs - don't get sucked in by the mass media propaganda.
The main reasons to invade Iraq were threefold (As presented to the UN by the US Secretary of State)
* WMDs
* Resolution 1441 violations
* Open support for Terror

Any one reason alone would be sufficient justification for war but especially the last two. All THREE were valid.

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

For those wishing to get half a clue may I suggest reading;

Saddam's General by Georges Hormuz Sada &
Saddam's Bomb Maker by Khidir Hamza