Teleportation?!??!

[desmodromic]

Anything is possible.... 

I just felt like saying that  Carry on

[Hal]

Hi, I was just browsing the subjects here when I came across this discussion about teleportation. It reminded me of an article I read this A.M. on www.foxnews.com in their Scitech section relative to the subject. It really gets technical---but informative.

[CamiGurlRox]

Yeah, I think I saw that as well.  They've only done like 1 electron across a room or something.

[Stookie]

But at least it was an electron. They've only done it with photons before.

[CamiGurlRox]

Yeah, but apparently we were supposed to be teleporting OURSELVES by now...

[zareste]

So, how would one go about opening a wormhole....

I may just have the answer. I dreamt about a 'warp gate' some years ago that was built on the other end of this galaxy. The humanoids designed it as a way of sending objects between star systems, avoiding the long shipping times of space flight. They put gates in a few star systems for testing. When two gates are activated, they 'close the distance' so you can throw an object in one gate and it will come out the other. This was useful because it circumvented the speed of light. An object could cross light-years in a very short time. It isn't traveling faster than light, but simply crossing a warped distance.

I remember it looked like the Hadron Collider.

I later met someone who described a similar 'warp gate' from a dream - it was exactly like the one I saw, and worked the same, but he got to talk to the humanoids personally and they gave a more detailed explanation. The gates used electromagnets attached to a series of rods, all arranged in circles that would spin around so the magnets would oppose each other and change polarity rapidly. (he had trouble describing it) The gates were then powered with extreme energy so the magnets would create a gravitational warp similar to that of a star or a black hole.

Apparently, activating one gate would make a warp with no effect, but activating two would cause the warps to connect and form a tunnel. If I'm correct, the gates could only shorten distances based on how much energy was used. For example you could turn 5 miles into 5 feet with moderate energy, but less energy would only shorten 5 miles to 50 feet, which is less useful. To close a distance between star systems required some extreme energy.

So I guess that's it. Extreme magnetism. I'm sure spirits use similar methods to teleport around.

[Summer]

I read that the Chinese where doing experiments having children teleport small objects out of container and the objects would get fused into the side of the container.   I think it is an exciting prospect though, I mean imagine being able to teleport anywhere on earth or beyond!

This reminds me of the Montauk Project. Or I've heard some call it the Philadelphia Project. Supposedly Einstein and a few others were working with the navy on teleportation. Their experiment went something along the lines of surrounding a naval ship (with men on it) with an electromagnetic field, I think in an attempt to keep everything intact while sending them through a worm hole or  somewhere around the Bermuda Triangle. They appeared for a brief moment at the coast of New York, and then back where they started. Though, most of their bodies were sort of molded to each others' as well as to the ship, as if their molecules had all scrambled. Maybe because the surrounding electromagnetic field didn't work properly to keep their bodies intact through gravitain against the vaccuum-like space they were traveling through. Or maybe there wasn't a second worm hole or portal open where they were attempting to teleport to. I'm not sure, its interesting enough, I just don't know enough about it

[AmbientSound]

It seems like the geometry of a movement pattern plays a big role in matters of energy. Magnets rotating in a circular pattern produces an electric current that runs perpendicular to the circle. I wonder what would happen if you made a magnet in the shape of a mobius strip, or moved it in such a pattern rapidly.

[SkepticBoy]

I may just have the answer. I dreamt about a 'warp gate' some years ago that was built on the other end of this galaxy. The humanoids designed it as a way of sending objects between star systems, avoiding the long shipping times of space flight. They put gates in a few star systems for testing. When two gates are activated, they 'close the distance' so you can throw an object in one gate and it will come out the other. This was useful because it circumvented the speed of light. An object could cross light-years in a very short time. It isn't traveling faster than light, but simply crossing a warped distance.

LOL!! sounds like you've watched too many Star Trek episodes.

[CamiGurlRox]

These are all interesting prospects, but none of them are accessible to average people...That's the problem.

[SkepticBoy]

Quote from: seth_w on September 23, 2008, 19:14:21
I read that the Chinese where doing experiments having children teleport small objects out of container and the objects would get fused into the side of the container.   I think it is an exciting prospect though, grin I mean imagine being able to teleport anywhere on earth or beyond!

Anyone have any more info on this please.

[zpr]

I came across this topic and noticed many of you are having difficulties understanding their translations, and I don't blame you.  But seeing as I speak both Russian and English fluently, I feel obligated to provide a proper translation of his method.

He divides his method into two segments: Creating the model, and using your energy to power it.

You must pick an object and familiarize yourself with it.  (The example he uses is a coin).  Know its size, shape, color, texture, smell, taste, etc.  The more information you have, the better.  The idea is to get the object embedded into your subconscious.  Next, you must pick an origin from which you will teleport your object from.  He recommends using a place where you know there are currently many coins.  Then you must decide on a destination.  He recommends using a place that is already a common destination for your object in your subconscious (ie. your pockets, wallet, purse, etc. because you generally put coins there when you receive them as change, and this is a subconscious act).

Now that you have created your model, time to make it happen.  Take as much energy as you can from your body (and possibly other sources, though that was not mentioned) and gather it in your solar plexus, which is located just below the ribs.  Once you have enough, (the more the better) fire it out of your head chakra.  It is important to understand that unlike the rest of your chakras, your head chakra is open to the world; it is a connection between you and the outside.  You will be firing your energy through your head chakra into a vortex above your head.  When you blast this energy through your head, your consciousness will attach itself to the energy.  It was _heavily emphasized_ (and quite unclear in the translation) that the energy in the vortex must be spinning very fast with an extremely high frequency.  In other words, it must be very powerful.  Then, the vortex must be directed to locate the object and "suck up" it's energy into the vortex.  Once you feel that this has happened, you must _drop_ the vortex back into your body, allowing your own energy to disperse and the energy of the coin to be directed (through your subconscious) to the desired destination.  It is important to note that when your energy leaves your head, it must shoot out, not merely flow out and it must plunge back into you, not just casually re-enter.  This emphasizes the strength required in realizing the model.

And that's all he really says.  I shall be practicing this in the near future.  I ask anyone with positive results to report back to this thread.
Thanks!

[CamiGurlRox]

Awesome translation thanks!

[army_66]

i really want to do it its just that idk if its possible to do it but you never know it maybe will happen

[SkepticBoy]

Has anyone looked into this anymore lately? I have been checking out Nikolai Denisov's vids of people in his online lessons and who claim to be successful. I cant help thinking though that these people know him or something and are pretending to have success so he will look genuine and the fact that he says no scientists want to test his claims makes me thinking somethings not right here.

Anyone else have any views on this all?

[kurtykurt42]

After reading all of the posts on this topic I would have to say that zpr and Zareste are on the right track.

Zareste refers to 'warp gates' or what I like to call stargates. Anyone who has seen the show is familiar with how they function.

Zpr talks about how to Teleport objects using only our thoughts from one location to another based on Russian experimental research.

However, both of these techniques don't explain how to instantly Teleport people from one point in space to another... which is what I am interested in learning how to do. From what I understand the Russian and American governments are the only ones that know how to do this by reverse engineering alien technology from UFOs. Obviously using the technology is simple but recreating it is another thing.

So, for now I would have to say that our physical bodies are not capable of Teleportation by using our thoughts. But as time progresses and are planet enters areas of space with higher vibrational frequencies (2012?) the pattern of our DNA may change and allow for things like this and telekinesis and many other abilities to manifest.

[Stillwater]

I am actually taking a class with a famous metaphyscian, and we discussed teleportation for at least a full day's worth this week, lol. Most experts (Parfit, Swinburne, etc) who have written about teleportation seem to feel that if we are talking about "scientific" teleportation, that it is not so much a way of traveling, but a sophisticed way of dying, lol.

It gets into questions of how personal identity is defined, and if our personal bodily stream of consciousness can survive our body being disbanded, and reassembled elsewhere, or scanned and replicated, as some proposed in science fiction. I recall a joke in the original Star Trek where captain Kirk relies on this concept, thinking of it as a way for his current ego to commit suicide, without depriving the crew of its captain, lol.

There are actually some who feel that the idea of self is an illusion, much as Siddhartha claimed, mediated by having memories of our past actions; these people would say that we are in effect not much different from a clone who was created on the spot, and given a history of memories and thoughts, for all the sense of self we have. Such people feel that we would survive a teleportation session, but in the same sense that a person whose sense of self is purely dependent on their memories does.

I tend to think that people have an immaterial mediating element of some sort, because of other metaphysical issues that otherwise arise, so these questions are mostly moot to me, as they are questions for materialists and physicalists to ask themselves, but the question of whether our awareness would follow with the teleported copy is still difficult to answer.

[kurtykurt42]

I'm curious to know what the famous metaphyscian thought about physical body Teleportation. He probably went into detail about how non-physical Teleportation works, which is very important if we are to understand how this all fits together. In my previous post I said that our physical bodies are not yet 'ready' to be able to do this type of Teleportation, or it may be that the space around our solar system does not allow for physical Teleportation. Because I think by now people would have seen more people teleporting... 

[Stillwater]

I'm curious to know what the famous metaphyscian thought about physical body Teleportation. He probably went into detail about how non-physical Teleportation works, which is very important if we are to understand how this all fits together. In my previous post I said that our physical bodies are not yet 'ready' to be able to do this type of Teleportation, or it may be that the space around our solar system does not allow for physical Teleportation. Because I think by now people would have seen more people teleporting... 

I mean metaphyscian in the philosophical sense. The issues we were concerned with deal with how our personal identity and perspective is maintained. The type of teleportation that is relevant here is a process that is performed on an individual by a device, one that is now theoretical, but whose principles are fully understood, and can take one of two forms. The first is to physically deconstruct an individual, taking care to create a detailed map of the individual's atomic structure which is used to later reconstruct them again when the atoms or energy stream arrives at the destination. The other is similarly to deconstruct them while again scanning, and use other matter at the arrival site to rebuild a replica of the person. Both methods require destroying the original person, because supposedly the Heisenberg uncertainty princeple would prevent one from obtaining a scan of every atom's position without altering molecular bonds to the point of breaking them, and dissolving the person. So either way, the original person is destroyed, and one method involves rebuilding them with the same material.

Most people feel scientific teleportation in this manner will kill a person, and merely provide a replica of their body on the site of arrival. The interesting thing is that some experts believe that this would not make any difference to our own perception of our self, and that we would have the experience of leaving and arriving, as it is only our memories that provide a sense of identity, they argue, and that the replica of us who arrives is no different from the person who you are now, who inherited a physical form with memories from your self of ten minutes ago, just as the replicant would have.

This particular Metaphyscian doesn't himself proclaim that non-physical teleportation is possible, because, of all things, he feels that humans are fully material beings, with no immaterial element, and that God will reincarnate people by providing them with a new physical body, but that they temporarily cease to exist while they have no form; although I am quite entertained by the fact that there are several Catholics in our class, who make no mistake about their stance against materialism pro-dualism, and who won't let him rest, lol- although to his credit, he entertains as possible, and marginally probable almost any notion people present him with, and confesses his tentative uncertainty with his own conclusions.

The writers that I know of who have addressed the problem are, Derek Parfit, Richard Swinburne, Saul  Kripke, and Roderic Chisholm.

Swinburne is the only one of those I know that thinks of teleportation in an immaterialist way, but I think a couple of the others entertain the idea.

Here is my Prof's (Peter Van Inwagen) wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_van_Inwagen

Like I said, he believes some goofy things, but I have noticed that if you are involved with philosophy long enough, especially the contemporary stuff, you have heard semi-credible arguments for almost any conclusion, and have a tough time really fully believing anything without question.

[Yamabushi]

The funny thing is that at the Planck scale every material system is being de-constructed and re-constructed again, about three tredecillion times per second. In this sense, everything is teleporting all the "time."

The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle has been experimentally proven to be situation-dependent. Uncertainty cannot be applied, in any regard, to a beam of monochromatic photons, especially coherent ones, for example. The Nobel Prize winning exact measurements carried out by Hans Dehmelt upon an electron trapped (in a Paul trap) for three months also refutes its universal applicability. The key to transPlanckian transduction (teleportation) lies in causal mechanics, which requires a subquantum model of physics - something we are still lacking as long as we collectively continue to suckle upon the nipple of Einstein.

YB

I mean metaphyscian in the philosophical sense. The issues we were concerned with deal with how our personal identity and perspective is maintained. The type of teleportation that is relevant here is a process that is performed on an individual by a device, one that is now theoretical, but whose principles are fully understood, and can take one of two forms. The first is to physically deconstruct an individual, taking care to create a detailed map of the individual's atomic structure which is used to later reconstruct them again when the atoms or energy stream arrives at the destination. The other is similarly to deconstruct them while again scanning, and use other matter at the arrival site to rebuild a replica of the person. Both methods require destroying the original person, because supposedly the Heisenberg uncertainty princeple would prevent one from obtaining a scan of every atom's position without altering molecular bonds to the point of breaking them, and dissolving the person. So either way, the original person is destroyed, and one method involves rebuilding them with the same material.

Most people feel scientific teleportation in this manner will kill a person, and merely provide a replica of their body on the site of arrival. The interesting thing is that some experts believe that this would not make any difference to our own perception of our self, and that we would have the experience of leaving and arriving, as it is only our memories that provide a sense of identity, they argue, and that the replica of us who arrives is no different from the person who you are now, who inherited a physical form with memories from your self of ten minutes ago, just as the replicant would have.

This particular Metaphyscian doesn't himself proclaim that non-physical teleportation is possible, because, of all things, he feels that humans are fully material beings, with no immaterial element, and that God will reincarnate people by providing them with a new physical body, but that they temporarily cease to exist while they have no form; although I am quite entertained by the fact that there are several Catholics in our class, who make no mistake about their stance against materialism pro-dualism, and who won't let him rest, lol- although to his credit, he entertains as possible, and marginally probable almost any notion people present him with, and confesses his tentative uncertainty with his own conclusions.

The writers that I know of who have addressed the problem are, Derek Parfit, Richard Swinburne, Saul  Kripke, and Roderic Chisholm.

Swinburne is the only one of those I know that thinks of teleportation in an immaterialist way, but I think a couple of the others entertain the idea.

Here is my Prof's (Peter Van Inwagen) wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_van_Inwagen

Like I said, he believes some goofy things, but I have noticed that if you are involved with philosophy long enough, especially the contemporary stuff, you have heard semi-credible arguments for almost any conclusion, and have a tough time really fully believing anything without question.

[kurtykurt42]

This particular Metaphyscian doesn't himself proclaim that non-physical teleportation is possible, because, of all things, he feels that humans are fully material beings, with no immaterial element, and that God will reincarnate people by providing them with a new physical body, but that they temporarily cease to exist while they have no form...

So, he's trying to say that we are not in control of our energy body once our biological physical body dies? And since we are fully material beings we have no energy body to begin with I guess...

Or is it more logical to assume the we are energy beings that inhabit physical bodies and have the ability to use these same energy bodies to 'teleport' to other dimensional planes by altering the frequency of our energy with our thoughts? 

I believe that the top argument happens in parts of this universe where there are beings with extraordinary power that can control energy very well with there thoughts. But for the most part the second argument is what I believe to be the truth that makes up the majority of the universe.

[Stillwater]

So, he's trying to say that we are not in control of our energy body once our biological physical body dies? And since we are fully material beings we have no energy body to begin with I guess...

Yeah, it's a funny idea, really. He feels that material can explain every aspect of ourselves proven to exist, and that furthermore, since our consciousness can be made to blank out completely (dreamless Delta sleep), and since it is shown to be so dependent on brain-states (if our brain is injured in certain ways we don't really do much thinking or experiencing at all), our mental world is completely brain-dependent. On the flipside, he feels that there are certain metaphysical issues that can only be resolved with the addition of an immaterial God. To be honest, I have never encountered another person with this combination of beliefs.

Or is it more logical to assume the we are energy beings that inhabit physical bodies

When you say more logical, what do you mean? what are your particular arguments here? I know of certain circumstances of the universe that seem to either force either this conclusion, or an extremely sophisticated version of materialism (panpsychism- all matter is self-aware), but I am curious to hear your particular arguments that you in turn feel force this conclusion in a logical way, which is an extremely strong case. I think the mental has been demonstrated to carry a certain fundamental primacy in the universe, but there are several means of bringing this primacy about, and to be honest, I am not 100% certain myself which in reality holds, although I have my bets too.

The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle has been experimentally proven to be situation-dependent. Uncertainty cannot be applied, in any regard, to a beam of monochromatic photons, especially coherent ones, for example. The Nobel Prize winning exact measurements carried out by Hans Dehmelt upon an electron trapped (in a Paul trap) for three months also refutes its universal applicability. The key to transPlanckian transduction (teleportation) lies in causal mechanics, which requires a subquantum model of physics - something we are still lacking as long as we collectively continue to suckle upon the nipple of Einstein.

Hey Yamabushi

This may well be, but you would still need to make an argument not for its lack of universal applicability, but its lack of applicability in this particular case. This particular case involves somehow measuring the position of the atomic material making up our bodies, and any way that I know of to do this would still alter the position and energy levels of these atoms to the point of fatally disrupting our body's bonds. You would need to die for it work, or so it would seem at this point. Further evidence of this fact is the notion that you could use the information gained to make not 1, but 5 copies, for instance, of the original body, and no one believes that they would all be you, so in my opinion, the 1 copy normally made would not be either.

[kurtykurt42]

When you say more logical, what do you mean? what are your particular arguments here? I know of certain circumstances of the universe that seem to either force either this conclusion, or an extremely sophisticated version of materialism (panpsychism- all matter is self-aware), but I am curious to hear your particular arguments that you in turn feel force this conclusion in a logical way, which is an extremely strong case. I think the mental has been demonstrated to carry a certain fundamental primacy in the universe, but there are several means of bringing this primacy about, and to be honest, I am not 100% certain myself which in reality holds, although I have my bets too.

After carefully studying and thoroughly investigating these areas of energy and consciousness it is up to each individual to come to their own conclusion. I don't really want to force others to see the truth if they are not ready. Therefore, it may not be possible to present this material to some people in a logical way until the technology exists to prove it. Religious beliefs and fear can prevent people from understanding the truth and I have found that sometimes, no matter what, there is no logical argument strong enough to convince someone of the truth.

[Stillwater]

After carefully studying and thoroughly investigating these areas of energy and consciousness it is up to each individual to come to their own conclusion. I don't really want to force others to see the truth if they are not ready. Therefore, it may not be possible to present this material to some people in a logical way until the technology exists to prove it. Religious beliefs and fear can prevent people from understanding the truth and I have found that sometimes, no matter what, there is no logical argument strong enough to convince someone of the truth.

Indeed- you can't really force anyone to believe anything. When two people are having a discussion about beliefs, it is very rare that people will actually chage their opinions; this is partially because most people don't really honestly appraise what the other person is saying to the fullest and most unbiased extent possible, and also partially because even if another changed someone's opinion, most people have too much pride to admit that that is what actually occurred, and won't even admit it to themselves until much later.

That said, I am not asking you to prove anything, nor to force others to believe; I am just curious what your reasoning might have been, as I am of any who claim to come to interesting conclusions- I think we are only the more informed by hearing a multitude of arguments in a given question, especially those we may not even agree with, as they allow us to better define what our positions are by what they aren't. So you don't really need to say anything- but it might be interesting

[kurtykurt42]

More information is always good information, that's for sure.

Why do you think that it's not possible to 'force' someone to believe? Children are told what to believe all the time, they are never really given a choice.

But with regards to energy and consciousness, I think that we can use our thoughts to create prayers or 'energy programs' and then store them in primary energy centers (chakras). We can then send these programs to others which re-writes their chakras all together, it just takes a little time for the entire process to take effect. 

How this relates to Teleportation... who knows?