Why wont spirits tell anything useful ?

[Psan]

Even if you exclude the made up fake communications, the amount of useful knowledge that any spirit has ever communicated is almost nil.
I can expect that the info coming from so called 'lower beings' and ordinary spirits would be useless or nothing new, but even the so called 'higher beings' just go round and round in circles with meaningless gibberish.
So far I never came across any kind of 'intelligent communication'. So I may be wrong here. By such communication I mean any information which helped in some kind of achievements or reveling any truths.
Moreover they never try to disclose the mechanisms by which they communicate and sound very vague when asked.

The whole situation puts spirit communications in the category of pseudosciences such as astrology, where there is a lot of heat but no light.

I can only guess the reasons for it -
1. Its all fake, no one can communicate with spirits really.
2. Spirits don't want to interfere with normal workings of the world, so don't pass any higher knowledge down.
3. They want us to learn in a hard way, using our own intelligence.
4. They do say things in thought forms which are useful, but our physically rooted minds distort it and filter it out during communications.
5. They think that we have enough knowledge about the physical and non-physical to carry on, and there is no need to over burden us with things which we wont use and understand anyway.
6. They are only as intelligent as we are, so don't posses any more knowledge then we do.
7. They are not interested in physical at all.
8. They have got rid of all things related to physical and cant seem to relate to them anymore. So our questions about physics are Chinese to them.
9. They are afraid that we would misuse the knowledge.
10. They prefer to communicate useful things via dreams, inspirations, insights, gut feelings, intuitions and such.
11. They are already in full communication with our 'higher selves', so there is no need to repeat the things here on earth.

And I can think of more....but that's all for now.
I'd like to have your opinions on the matter.

[Tombo]

I agree with you

[CaCoDeMoN]

Not always. Channelings from Azazel, Thoth and Lucifer at www.joyofsatan.com do make sense. Most of meditations there were designed with their help.

[Psan]

I may go blind if I read those red texts on black.
But I tried reading the section on meditations and its some eastern occult stuff in a language of video game story.

[Telos]

12. They possess less knowledge than we do.

[wisp]

Psan,
Number 4 suites me best.

4. They do say things in thought forms which are useful, but our physically rooted minds distort it and filter it out during communications.
 

IMO, there is a time factor that contributes to less than ideal communication methods, for the sender as well as the receiver.

[Chaoslogic]

Spirit Guides communicate their knowledge to you by telling you what NOT to do when the time arises. Like, DON'T take that road. Or, SAVE your money. Or, DO IT NOW, not later.

Communicative, tangible relationships exist, but in order to experience them, you need to develop those abilities. You sound a lot like where I am right now. Believe me, you are not alone in being confused, or should I say, doubtful about the whole process. If you want to learn more about spirit guides, Sylvia Brown is a very recommended and highly respected mystic.

You will find her to be very level and competent, much like Robert Bruce.

Spirit Guides are not omnipotent beings. Supposedly, they are there to ensure our charts are met and that our contract with God continues on task. The only reasons I would communicate with them would be for insight or confidence.

Since imagination is the bridge between them and us, it's common for messages to be misinterpreted. To compare with an example, imagine the task of translating another language into English using an on-line translator.

Spiritual communications are that foreign language. And it is up to your mental software -- imagination -- to translate it into something understandable. On-line translators are never accurate, and neither is your mind. The problems for both the software and your imagination stem from the programming. In this case, any success with your imagination comes from focus.

Remember, focus keeps your imagination from running wild. Don't waste time telling yourself you have the focus. You'll know if you're a novice like me if, during an exercise, you ask a question and it comes back in gibberish. Like, "Yes, my name is WuuuWahOOOooEEeAAooUUUAhhhEEe. . ." and so forth.

You'll also know if you're making it up if there's no sense of notice or urgency in your heart or chest area. You'll know especially if you can control the conversations (by writing off the answer and putting words into his or her mouth).

But don't worry. This falsification can actually summon something up, even if you believe it's false!

The second element here is intuition. Again, it can be hard to tell what's real and what isn't. You may have had one or more of those experiences where you KNOW something is true. There are signs to look for, but since they are subtle, you need hands-on experience to distinguish them.

The feeling will NOT go away if you try and shake it off. It will come from the heart, or the chest or stomach, and often, there will be a powerful overwhelming feeling about it. It comes in the form of choice usually, and often as a warning. People identify this as their inner voice, intuition, or premonitions. Everyone gets them. You never HAVE to listen to it, but if you don't, there will be hell to pay. The feeling is unmistakable. There is always a powerful urgency to it. "DO IT NOW! THERE'S NOT TIME TO THINK! I IMPLORE YOU TO HEED MY ADVICE!"

Spirit guides are only interested in keeping you from getting your butt into a sling. They're not there to turn you into a wise, all-knowing guru about everything (i.e. intellectual subjects, like space and medicine).

I want to add that the whole bit on imagination came to me a few days ago when I was "imagining" an exercise with an "imaginary" spirit guide. There was a turning point when it felt like another presence took over and from there the conversation became about easing my doubts about spirit guide communications being "just my imagination".

If you ask me, there are many components you can develop that are related. It is the same as in college where you must take many difference courses that are independent, but related.

[Nostic]

You know, as I grow and learn more, I really get the sense that the answers we're looking for are far simpler than we may think. I think it's the typical human mind that complicates and distorts things.
There are levels of understanding. For instance, understanding something logically just touches the surface of knowledge. As you grow and gain more experience, you can often look back on concepts that you once thought you understood with greater clarity. I mean, you really did understand them at the time, but your depth of understanding, you realize was at the bare minimum.
I think it's all a matter of the depth of your understanding. Words and logic offer such little depth.

Beyond that, I think it's our job to figure our way through this world. I get the sense that if guides are helping us, it's their responsibility to do so in a covert way, so that we learn our lessons for ourselves. Otherwise, they'll be infringing on our growth.

[Psan]

Telos: That might be true for many of them. But we cant generalize. In many of the communications they try to pose as very wise and all knowing but fail to convey any smart and practical things.

wisp: Whats this time factor? I couldn't get you.

Chaoslogic: That's a good post. I see that you focus only on guides, whose intention is obviously not to cater to your curiosities. They only warn or direct or advice in personal matter. I think there is no way to know whether any intuitions that we get come from guides or not.
The imagination method works for many. I read Robert Peterson's account. Here I have a doubt that you are talking to your subconscious, not to external entities. A quick check is to ask something that you yourself don't know(even remotely) and can be verified quickly and unambiguously. It should be a easy to answer question not about yourself or about 'big' philosophical things or related to future.

Nostic: You have some good points. Its hard for me to believe that all the useful things that a spirit or a guide would tell us will be an obstacle to our growth.

[GorillaBait]

I think that there are two types of people who want to receive that kind of information from spirits:  People who want to increase their personal wisdom and power, and people who want to convey it to the world, i.e. the ones who go on about huge fleets of alien spaceships hurtling towards Earth to arrive in 20 years or some such.

It makes me think that the majority of such communications are false, from trickster spirits having a joke on us and manipulating our hopes and beliefs.  I also believe that for people who are ready to receive such information, spirits or angels or whatever sometimes reveal truths of a more or less profound nature, which if the person so chooses, they can reveal to those they also believe to be ready.  But a website full of crazy-sounding prophesies or truths, to me, is probably junk.

[wisp]

Psan,

Messages come in various ways. When I get a chance I'll write up an example how time is a factor regarding getting information through to one's present.

One source may very well be our own self. Do we meet our later or earlier selves along the way in life? I believe this happens. The most obvious are in dreams.

GB,
Future events is an interesting subject. I believe misunderstandings of the future is easy to do. If we exist in past, present, and future at the same time, it seems to reason some things can get misconstrued. Some things may be intentional, but some may be honest misunderstandings. When a group gets together, there may be a tendency to make a mountain out of a molehill.

[redcatherine]

the amount of useful knowledge that any spirit has ever communicated is almost nil..... even the so called 'higher beings' just go round and round in circles with meaningless gibberish.So far I never came across any kind of 'intelligent communication'. So I may be wrong here. By such communication I mean any information which helped in some kind of achievements or revealing any truths.Moreover they never try to disclose the mechanisms by which they communicate and sound very vague when asked.The whole situation puts spirit communications in the category of pseudosciences such as astrology, where there is a lot of heat but no light.

spirit and angels have inspired music inventions literature films and art
they have prevented tragedies and casualties
they have uplifted and encouraged
they have moved our hearts to romance
to courage to virtue to compassion
they have motivated us

spirit communication is open to all but it is not easy for all
it takes time practice and patience
when we are too suspicious we remain closed off
when we are too accepting we are open to confusion and deception
so how to go ?
go to the source
check it out yourself

it is easier to speak to a grandmother in spirit than to an angel
an archangel is harder to see or hear

how much meaningful communication can come from our deceased rellies
when they never learned to speak to spirit as humans they don't speak well to live humans when they become spirit it takes time to

mahatma and archangels have useful information to impart
but how many have learned to hear or see them or even tried

it is easier for spirits to  reach us in dreams but how many live ones recall their dreams ?

and how many live ones are  spiritually aware
I would guess it to be a small percentage
i feel it would be less than 1 percent of humanity

what is the purpose of this life ?
we are spirit in a human form learning or attempting to learn
to evolve the universal mind and shift our consciousness forward and upward

Spirit does teach us the way to enlightenment
that is something

muses inspire us make us hear the music
see the plan
have the dream
make the technological advancement

i  feel you need to prove it to yourself by sitting in meditation
and making a connection with your own guide

mine gives me heads up signs

my son's life was saved when he heard an angel tell him to stay at a mate's house and not go out to the cinemas he heard this message repeated but ignored it and was hit by a car at 80 kph
then he heard the angel say you are not meant to die today
you will escape death
but not the pain
next time
listen

my life has radically changed due to spirit communication
i could not begin to persuade you with my own experiences
who am i
why should you trust me
you should not
you should find out for yourself
go straight to the source

my words will mean nought to you otherwise
we must all see and hear for ourselves

so if you are truly curious about how life altering spirit communication can be you should open your channel and tune in

Om Shanti

[Chaoslogic]

Psan, in fact, that entire conversation about 'imagination' came about from me asking such a question. Even when it was all in my imagination, I was saying that it could "just be my imagination". Whether or not it was made up, I still got a very insightful response. And that response changed my perception for the better. In fact, I have a better understanding of how spirit guides can communicate with people, when previously I was looking at it only as halfway idea instead of a full one.

I've read Peterson's treastie, but oddly enough, I don't recall any of those methods. That's where I first learned about inner voices (being connected to spirit guides. Previously, I had grown up with my mom mentioning how they saved her from car accidents).

During inner monologues, I'm always impressed by how wise and articulate my thoughts are. It's my voice, but it is being guided; like a hand that is being guided to draw, write, or feel by another hand.

[Nostic]

Nostic: You have some good points. Its hard for me to believe that all the useful things that a spirit or a guide would tell us will be an obstacle to our growth.

Yes, I agree, not all.

[Psan]

redcatherine,
Was that a poem?  
I think you misunderstood the problem that I'm addressing. I did not deny the possibility of spirit communication. The warnings, prediction of accidents, inspirations and art/romance etc are good enough signs of spirit communication.
We also have very direct communications which prove their existence.

Its also true that its very hard to communicate with higher beings, given our limitations and their limitations. But whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

The unscientific and 'just for my own problems' approach is so unfortunate.

[Rob]

Indeed! Personally I wil be convinced when a spirit is able to lucidly and fully communication the working principles of the zero-point field or resonant healing. Either would be acceptable!!!!! And either would have the effect of massively reducing human suffering....I'm not holding me breath though

[Psan]

During inner monologues, I'm always impressed by how wise and articulate my thoughts are. It's my voice, but it is being guided; like a hand that is being guided to draw, write, or feel by another hand.

I can second that as I have similar experience. Sometimes during inner dialogues I would stop thinking along the habitual lines and something out of the box pops out. It often sounds like a wise quote from a great man, but totally new to me. Then I wonder how could I make such a statement, it feels like a 'foreign thought'.

I don't know if there's any psychology going on here or it is a real communication from someone who's 'listening' to me.

[redcatherine]

redcatherine,
Was that a poem?  

no it lacks rhyme , metre or alliteration
and as such is not poetry

i am quite serious in my discourse i assure you

But whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

What does one expect ? Is not spiritual enlightenment , technology, music ,art and literature useful ? What would you have instead ?? ...lottery numbers ? What do you really expect ?

How do you suppose we will evolve if not spiritually or technologically ? Spirit communication aids both of these . Or did you mean comically or economically ?

As for physics and Maths ...do you suppose these have not been divinely inspired ? Math mimics nature . The human energy body develops along the lines of Fibonacci as do many patterns of nature . God is the greatest mathematician and notable minds like Sir Isaac Newton studied his great work in the spiritual alchemy of the human body .

[CaCoDeMoN]

What does one expect ? Is not spiritual enlightenment , technology, music ,art and literature useful ? What would you have instead ?? ...lottery numbers ? What do you really expect ?

How do you suppose we will evolve if not spiritually or technologically ? Spirit communication aids both of these . Or did you mean comically or economically ?

As for physics and Maths ...do you suppose these have not been divinely inspired ? Math mimics nature . The human energy body develops along the lines of Fibonacci as do many patterns of nature . God is the greatest mathematician and notable minds like Sir Isaac Newton studied his great work in the spiritual alchemy of the human body .

Technology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.
Also math has nearly nothing to do with nature. In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random. There's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me. Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

spirit and angels have inspired music inventions literature films and art
they have prevented tragedies and casualties
they have uplifted and encouraged
they have moved our hearts to romance
to courage to virtue to compassion
they have motivated us

I think that best motivation comes from within, and spirits are not needed at all for humans to create something beautiful. Courage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.
Also show me a definite proof of "spirits preventing tragedies and causualties". Of course I am not talking about things like one prevented death, but something bigger. Spirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

it is easier to speak to a grandmother in spirit than to an angel
an archangel is harder to see or hear

It's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy. If it isn't so, why then communicating with demons is extremely easy, much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

[Rob]

Dude yous post is full of assumptions and innacuracies.....catherine I hope you don't mind me fielding this one! Sure you wont  

Also math has nearly nothing to do with nature. In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random.

Say wha?? Whether things in nature are random is hugely debateable. Quantum shows us probabilities but apparent random-ness on this scale his little, if anything, to do with the macro-world of nature. I mean its pretty tricky to apply Schrodingers Cat theory in reality - the cat knows damn well where it is and will make sure everyone else does too!! But I jest. Thats the biggy in quantum interpretation, whether its truly random or just appear so due to out lame probing techniques. As Einstein said in that famous debate:
"God does not play dice" to which Bohr replied "who are we to say where God places his dice?". When you have two of the biggest giants of physics in the last century at heads on a topic like this, your certainty in yourself is......um.....

Besides, maths is our way of describiing nature, and it seems to do such a damn good job.....oh yeah and maths can describe probabilites (random) quite adequately too....

There's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me.

Proof? You mean mathmatical proof of something relating to the energy body? ROFLMAO good luck!!!!
Anyway.....I can give examples, would that be acceptable do you think?
All through nature. Sea shells, plant growth, etc etc etc etc.......etc.......etc....just google is FFS. In brief, in nature growth follows these sequences to harmonise themselves with the natural movements of energy.

Other research which has been done on the direct connection between fibonacci sequences and the movements of energies is in a book called "The Golden Vortex" which is crazy cool. Highly recommend, but only if you've got a seriously open mind...

Other examples of spirals (perhaps fibonacci) being crucial include:
- Beltrami force free vortex
- Russian tosion fields
- Need I go on?

Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

Are you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements, or are you just trying to sound clever and shut Catherine up?
Besides, do you honestly think any respectable scientist would jeopardise their career and work by admitting it was given to him by spiritual entities? The very idea is ludicrous. Further, most scientists are 100% switched off to this stuff, so any entity that did want to help through these things would probably have to do so through subconsicous channels. Still, the best we have in the public domain is the discoverer of DNA and his dream about snakes.

Courage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.

What gives you the right to say that? Besides you've wrong, I've learned important lessons on these thigns and more from both my parents and various entities, both dark and light.

It's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy

I have never met an Angel, but from the above statement its obvious that neither have you. However, some people have, such as RB, and I feel quite confident he would not agree with you.
Angels are high spiritual beings, the concept of them turning their nose up at us is very low and IMO quite silly. The reason they dont communicate so much is more likely so that we dont come to rely on them - we are, after all, here for a reason, and no doubt they know this very well too. Conversely, if you read RB's account of the high spiritual world you'll see he saw plenty of angels there, which would indicate interaction.

Come on Caco, I'm sure you're both more intelligent and less arrogant than your post makes you out to be! I guess we all have bad days       .

Rob

[Psan]

Technology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.

Thats right. There are none.

Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

Physicists are far away from spiritual activities, so there's no chance that they would communicate with spirits for proposing theories. And as we all know very few theories survive the test of time, so anything if it was communicated 100 years back to physicists is wrong !
Now dont tell me that spirits lied to physicists just for fun.

And whoever inspired a scientist to build a nuke or bio-weapons was not very intelligent. Perhaps he was a demon not an angel, one would say. I admire his knowledge of nuclear science. It is strange that no angel prevented its use, or even warned. On a serious side, its not possible to get a proof. You are breaking your head on a wall, if you are asking a proof from people who are already "sure" about such communications.

Spirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

Thats why I say that the "only for personal use" approach is so unfortunate, given their powers to predict so accurately.

why then communicating with demons is extremely easy, much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

Even demons don't leave a trace. But its not correct to say that angels are proudy, they could be at most indifferent or work in background. Although demons usually make their intentions very clear, angels are shy in giving away their secret methods of operating.

These are not my views, just some observations. So if anyone knows about things that are otherwise, please put them down here.

[Psan]

Besides, maths is our way of describing nature, and it seems to do such a damn good job.....oh yeah and maths can describe probabilites (random) quite adequately too....

So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

I wouldn't be surprised if you find these questions stupid and are laughing on me. But hopefully I conveyed the point that only physical plane yields to mathematical analysis. And perhaps we dont need spirits to tell us that, we are spirits ourselves who are in the best position to see that.

What we do expect that if a higher spirit on a higher plane has learnt any such laws about their own planes, which can help us here to progress spiritually, should have communicated them by some kind of systematic means. But obviously that has not happened, and we are wondering the whys and hows of that in this thread. Its a different matter altogether that you chose to support the "claims" of someone you know for whatever reasons.

Are you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements,

Well I dont know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments. Even if true, they are not acceptable because that's how science works.  

[Chaoslogic]

We all assume the mind exists, even though there is no physical proof of its location or its nature. Should I believe that the mind doesn't exist because there is no proof that it does, likewise to how one can't believe in spirit guides for similar reasons?

[CaCoDeMoN]

Proof? You mean mathmatical proof of something relating to the energy body? ROFLMAO good luck!!!!

" connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence" is a mathematical statement so there should be mathematical proof for it or it'll be just a pointless statement.

Are you actually serious in all these "show me the proof" statements, or are you just trying to sound clever and shut Catherine up?
Besides, do you honestly think any respectable scientist would jeopardise their career and work by admitting it was given to him by spiritual entities? The very idea is ludicrous. Further, most scientists are 100% switched off to this stuff, so any entity that did want to help through these things would probably have to do so through subconsicous channels. Still, the best we have in the public domain is the discoverer of DNA and his dream about snakes.

This way you could also say that sciencists get their ideas from aliens, but don't want to say that in public, so their reputation will not be destroyed. Both of these are claims without evidence. I think that some ideas can appear in dreams because when the conscious mind is occupied with something, subconscious is occupied too, and it's far more powerful than conscious mind. Even I sometimes have dreams that are not based in physical reality, but are all about mathematical equations.

Come on Caco, I'm sure you're both more intelligent and less arrogant than your post makes you out to be! I guess we all have bad days

If someone has different point of view it doesn't mean that he's arrogant. I am probably less intelligent than most users on this forum, but at least I see that not all that seems to be paranormal really has to be so, frequently there are much more realistic explanations.

[CaCoDeMoN]

And whoever inspired a scientist to build a nuke or bio-weapons was not very intelligent. Perhaps he was a demon not an angel, one would say. I admire his knowledge of nuclear science. It is strange that no angel prevented its use, or even warned. On a serious side, its not possible to get a proof. You are breaking your head on a wall, if you are asking a proof from people who are already "sure" about such communications.

"Sure" doesn't necessarily mean "right".

Even demons don't leave a trace. But its not correct to say that angels are proudy, they could be at most indifferent or work in background. Although demons usually make their intentions very clear, angels are shy in giving away their secret methods of operating.

They do. Not in physics/mathematics, but once I've found excellent chakra meditation that was channeled from Azazel. It was many times more powerful than anything I've seen before. Also I've seen a meditation channeled directly from Satan but I've never tested it.

Well I don't know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments. Even if true, they are not acceptable because that's how science works.

No, I'd just like to see an example of a channeling that has any scientific value.

So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?
How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?
How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

I think that answers for questions 1. and 2. could be researched, but at 3. is should be first checked if there really is such thing like frequency of the planes.