Why wont spirits tell anything useful ?

[Ben K]

They dont clear past knowledge, it is there for you to find if youd like

Memories from past lives can be remembered through meditation etc., just like memories from your early childhood can be remembered.

You say "They clear past knowledge" like someone else does it to you. You make a concsious decision IMO.

As for only seeing the bright side, there are 2 sides to everything. Pain and pleasure only control you if you let them, again IMO. There is no "system" of pleasure and pain, you bring these things upon yourself.

Well, I thought about it, but I dont see it. Just think about your school, what would be your condition if you forget completely the things you learnt in the past standard, as soon as you enter the next standard ?

Thats not a very good metaphor. I guess a more accurate metaphor would be, you go through kindergarden, graduate, and decide wether or not you want to move on to 1st grade. Once you start 1st grade you can of course remember all the past teachings,(this knowledge we call intuition) but you forget things like conversations you might have had with classmates, the grade you recieved in K, etc. etc. But using a school as a metaphor isnt very reliable in itself

[Psan]

Ben,
I acknowledge your answer. Right now I can't say whether whatever views I hold are true, its all a theory. So I will let the time decide, while I sit here on the fence

[phantoms_rose]

Another interesting perspective is that life is like a computer game, and this would explain why nearly all the problems are there.

Hi

From my understanding, yeah. Life is like one huge virtual simulator. Not sure if its necessarily a concentration camp, but think about it....what would happen if an intelligent virus took over the World of Warcraft servers?

Ive been aware from many seperate sources that if 3D existence is like a computer game, then the Egyptian god Thoth would be the master programmer. Incidentally, he also runs the Akashic records.

So why dont ya'll astral project to the record hall and say "Hey! Thoth-bird-man-dude! We need to have a talk!" and ask him all this stuff yourself? As the god of communication (among many many other things) I think its safe to say that wont annoy him, lol, and he most certainly would have something interesting to say or do. He is the trickster god as well, so it may not be what you expect. Hehe, and tell him Corie sent you!

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie

[Blackstream]

Holy crap necromancy. I was wondering why I got an email saying someone responded to a topic on a board I haven't been to in years. This topic is about 4 years old man.

[phantoms_rose]

Holy crap necromancy. I was wondering why I got an email saying someone responded to a topic on a board I haven't been to in years. This topic is about 4 years old man.

Yeah well Im a noob and it was an interesting topic.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

I get useful communications from spirits and deities ALL the time!
I think the first 'reason' you should have listed is: "You were not ready to listen, hear, or learn.", But, I guess, if you had known that, you would have been. Also, what constitutes 'useful', as far as you are concerned? I mean, imagine having access to the internet, but there are no search engines? There's an amazing amount of incredibly useful information available, but no way for you to find it, or find the kind of information that would be most useful to you at this time. From your posting, I feel that it is unlikely that you know the first thing of any interacting-with-spirits techniques or magickal techniques. These are the equivalent of having a computer with an operating system in your language and the beginnings of the knowledge of URLs so that, given enough time, intelligence, and focus, you can 'patch together' your own "search engine". And then there's the phenomenon that there are a large number of magickal systems out there, and only a few (but no-one knows which until you try them and find out) are going to 'fit' you, work well for you, return any 'useful' results for you. A major barrier to learning any such techniques, or fully trying any such systems is a lack of readiness to listen, hear, or learn. You have to become open to the possibilities to experience any of them.

I fully hope that you realize the value of what I am trying to say, that from it you get a clue, and open to hearing, to learning, and that you find the way that works best for you!!!
Biggest Brightest Blessings!!!

[PurplAstrlMagma]

I think that there are two types of people who want to receive that kind of information from spirits:  People who want to increase their personal wisdom and power, and people who want to convey it to the world, i.e. the ones who go on about huge fleets of alien spaceships hurtling towards Earth to arrive in 20 years or some such.

It makes me think that the majority of such communications are false, from trickster spirits having a joke on us and manipulating our hopes and beliefs.  I also believe that for people who are ready to receive such information, spirits or angels or whatever sometimes reveal truths of a more or less profound nature, which if the person so chooses, they can reveal to those they also believe to be ready.  But a website full of crazy-sounding prophesies or truths, to me, is probably junk.

What is interesting is th holographic, synergistic nature of communication. For those ready to hear, listen, and learn, even the communications intended to convey the least sense possible can be an inspiration to discover the truths of whatever the hearer is focused on. Intense mystical truths can be found in the animated Pink Panther series. I know the writers did not intend them to be there, but to the open mind EVERYTHING is a clue, and those who are communicating cannot help but be used by spirits deep within all to get certain things across to those who are ready.
Those who aren't ready could receive the specifications necessary to create a Pentium 4 computer in 1976, and not be able to make heads or tails out of this amazingly useful data.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

redcatherine,
Was that a poem?  
I think you misunderstood the problem that I'm addressing. I did not deny the possibility of spirit communication. The warnings, prediction of accidents, inspirations and art/romance etc are good enough signs of spirit communication.
We also have very direct communications which prove their existence.

Its also true that its very hard to communicate with higher beings, given our limitations and their limitations. But whenever such communications are realized, we get no new knowledge out of them which humanity can use for its evolution.

The unscientific and 'just for my own problems' approach is so unfortunate.

And if we did get "new knowledge which we  could use for our evolution", would we recognize it, would we use it, would we value it? So many people have problems with ideas like predestination, how do you know that a spirit who shares knowledge that helps you evolve is going to have your own ideals of where you want to grow toward at heart? So then your choice is to use the info or not, without knowing the result until you do. Meanwhile, all sorts of personal and group evolution techniques are out there, having become rife and popular since the 1900-s, but they take work, dedication, and an attitude where you don't mind if 'normal' people think you are crazy to apply and get results out of. Where do you think that all these techniques came from? I mean, few were dictated directly from the Spirit Realms, but most were inspired, then tried out and refined, by such people as Mathers, Crowley, Dionne Fortune, William Butler Yeats, Ernest Holmes, Jose Silva, Eric Bandler, the list goes on and on.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

Indeed! Personally I wil be convinced when a spirit is able to lucidly and fully communication the working principles of the zero-point field or resonant healing. Either would be acceptable!!!!! And either would have the effect of massively reducing human suffering....I'm not holding me breath though

Imagine not being a college student, not being in any kind of relationship with the guy at all, and going up to a professor of Quantum Physics and saying anything like : "I will be convinced when I hear a lucid and jargon-free communication of Quantum Physics...but I'm not holding my breath." Do you think the result would be anything positive? Even if he was in a good mood, what indication does he have that you will be open to his explanation should he try to give it? Then if he gives it, it isn't going to be jargon-free...so it might not be as lucid as you seem to want. Why should you expect that someone who doesn't live in anything like our reality is not going to have completely different ideas that might be difficult to translate clearly? Why should the spirit have to do all the work in presenting the message in such a clear and your-world-view-way that you will accept it. Can you not see that making such requirements is a barrier to receiving that communication that you are putting up purposefully?

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=CaCoDeMoN link=topic=18156.msg157692#msg157692 date=1111861151]

Technology? Show me at least one channeling that has any technological value.

Ever heard of Nicolai Tesla? If you've read his original notes it is evident that he often communicated and worked out details of his devices with entities that were not physically there.


Also math has nearly nothing to do with nature.

What? Do you really think that Fractal Geometry would be anything more than just a bunch of nice-looking Julia-sets unless there were all kinds of confirmations of its usefulness in Nature?
The leaves on trees tend to grow in orders of geometrical progression, and throughout nature, anyone who looks can see applications of the the square-cube law.

In nature nearly everything is partially random, and in math nothing is random.

Oh right! There's no math having to do with perceived 'rules' of chaos or anything!

There's also no proof of connection of energy body to fibronacci sequence, and if there is, show it to me.

Show me any 'proofs' of things involving the energy body! The only one I've ever run across is that when the probe of a galvanometer is run across a person's skin and it goes across an acupuncture point, the needle in the gauge moves suddenly and intensely. This proves that some kind of energy difference involving electrical potential is exactly at the spots mapped thousands of years ago in China. It doesn't prove anything more than that. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still (Ben Franklin, I think). Because of that, it isn't proofs or facts that matter in regards to spiritual matters, magick, dealing with the energy body, or anything like these, it is experience! You can't have an experience that your mind is closed to the possibility of.

Physics was also researched without help of any spiritual entities, if it isn't so then show me the proof.

I don't know the exact quote, but the guy who discovered the benzine molecule first saw its shape in a dream.

I think that best motivation comes from within, and spirits are not needed at all for humans to create something beautiful. Courage and compassion are taught by parents/life, not spirits.
Also show me a definite proof of "spirits preventing tragedies and causualties". Of course I am not talking about things like one prevented death, but something bigger. Spirits don't prevent things like in Iraq and Sudan.

And would we want them to interfere in how we work out our free-willed destinies if they did? There are records of such interventions, but only when most of the population involved has an open-to-spirit outlook before the intervention begins - - - see the various miracles of Our Lady of Guadalupe, not to mention the entire life of Joan of Arc.

It's not true. I think that Angels are just too proud to communicte with people, they consider human race unworthy.

It's not that. When an Angel learns something s-he knows it forever, s-he can't un-learn it and adjust to swiftly changing events. Angels do communicate with humans but so rarely that the events involved are catastrophic, and then rarely recorded. The vast majority of Angels learned how humans were when they first interacted with us, thousands and tens of thousands of years ago. Having that idea of who we are, why would they be interested in communicating with us at all? Understand that when you communicate with a Devil, while you are interacting, it automatically activates and inspires all the baser parts of your nature,, and thus when you communicate with an Angel, not only does it activate and inspire all the higher parts of your nature, but you activate and inspire all the baser parts of its nature. Why would anyone want to go thru that experience? The motivation has to be truly intense to get over the negatives of the experience itself. It's not about worthiness, it's about how things are. Imagine that a homeless person who hasn't bathed in years, continually picks his nose and butt, and has Tourette's Syndrome has the ability to summon you whenever he wants, trying to beg or steal the good things you have. Are you going to want to interact with him much? Regardless of his innate worth as a living being, are you going to enjoy interacting with him?

If it isn't so, why then communicating with demons is extremely easy,

There are several reasons why communicating with either Devils or Demons is easy, and the primary one is that our intense emotional reactions are like luxury-food to them. Imagine being summoned by someone who always looks more beautiful than you, who has a better attitude to everything than you, and who radiates chocolate and fine liquers. Aren't you going to go out of your way to make it easy for such a being to summon you? Then there's how reactive we are. Humans are easily scared, and fear is almost exactly to Demons what chocolate is to most women. Tasty and intoxicating. Another reason is that, because of how automatically they activate and inspire our own baser natures, when a Mage can heal a Demon or a Devil, his own baser nature is healed very intensely, and he goes thru intense personal evolution. Angels don't need to be healed, and neither do our own higher-natures. Of course, it is quite rare that a Mage even tries to summon a Demon or Devil in order to help it, or can follow thru when that is the intent.

much easier than communicating with dead relatives?

What techniques have you tried? When have you tried them? Do you understand that the very techniques by which Devils and Demons are summoned can be used for any spirit? Or are you just talking out of your hat?
[/quote]

[PurplAstrlMagma]

Sorry, delay caused me to double-post.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157785#msg157785 date=1111907362]

Thats right. There are none.

Physicists are far away from spiritual activities,

Depends on the Physicist. Quantum Physics is approaching reflection of quite a few mystical/ metaphysical theories from the past.

so there's no chance that they would communicate with spirits for proposing theories.

If you want to deal with matter, investigate matter, become a hero of matter, you incarnate into a material body. Why would discarnate spirits be interested in the whole hypothesis, test, theory sequence concerning matter?

And as we all know very few theories survive the test of time, so anything if it was communicated 100 years back to physicists is wrong !

Truly? So sure are you? What if the information given was just not recognized or applied correctly, or was given to those, like you, not ready to hear? Ever heard of broadcast power? Free electricity? Radical idea, but JP Morgan seemed to have major problems with it.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157789#msg157789 date=1111909425]

So, whats the equation for computing the intensity of chi-energy?

I'd tell you, but you wouldn't understand half of the terms.

Oh, heck, why not!

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.


How would you calculate the coordinates of your astral location?

By the time you began, you would have moved, since on the Astral you instantly go wherever you are thinking about. Think about the Rocketeer movie, where the rocket-pack--wearer would turn toward whatever he was looking at.

How many times higher is the frequency of buddic plane from that of astral?

Error. Is like asking how much more the volume of space on the surface of Luna is compared to all of space. The space on Luna is a subset of all space. The Buddhic plane is one of an almost infinite number of Astral Layers. It might be important, when asking these questions, to research and know a little bit of what you are talking about before you try.

I wouldn't be surprised if you find these questions stupid and are laughing on me. But hopefully I conveyed the point that only physical plane yields to mathematical analysis.

Okay. When has anyone said anything that opposes that?

And perhaps we dont need spirits to tell us that, we are spirits ourselves who are in the best position to see that.

What we do expect (is) that if a higher spirit on a higher plane has learnt any such laws about their own planes, which can help us here to progress spiritually, should have communicated them by some kind of systematic means.

Why? Do college students who aren't majoring in education visit kindergarden and systematically communicate anything to the kids? If they did, what would the kids retain and use? It's not about worth, it is about our ability to be open to the info, and then to process the info, to integrate it into our lives.

But obviously that has not happened, and we are wondering the whys and hows of that in this thread.

Not just that, but the way you have presented yourselves, you seemly aggressively and smugly closed-minded, so even if there were such communications for you, you will not acknowledge or use them.

Its a different matter altogether that you chose to support the "claims" of someone you know for whatever reasons.

Well I dont know what CaCoDeMoN is asking here, but I feel he is just saying that her claims are just her opinions and personal experiences, not based on scientific experiments.

Again, science is not the only way to do things or discover things. Since these areas are affected by the quality of the thoughts of the explorers, the scientific way automatically makes certain experiences impossible. You seem to be trying to say that the only useful information anyone ever gets is discovered or communicated by way of science only. If you'd said that from the start, I'd have ignored you completely.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg157960#msg157960 date=1112013789]

How are you gonna effectively map astral when everyone perceives it differently? Even your own perceptions of the same thing (e.g your room) in astral differ from visit to visit. The liquid nature of it defys any such attempts. There are no directions and no time, no laws and no maths holds. Bruce will surely map it, but it will be his own version.

What we need here is different pointers, perhaps of mental nature, which can be unambiguously shared by all.

That already exists, in the form of the Astral Layers. The 'lowest' one and the easiest to get to (automatically once Projecting) is a complete reflection of all of Physical existence. Then, depending on the culture in which the mapper is based, various layers are either numbered or named or both. The last thorough such mapping was done thousands of years ago in India, although a vague-er map was created more recently called the 'Tree of Life' figure of the Qabalah.

Then we can proceed to invent a logic not based on numbers, so that one can follow those pointers using a special astral logic and arrive at some destination without having any previous experience of that astral location. This is of course my guess only.

Sounds like you're ready to dive deeply into the Qabalah.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Chaoslogic link=topic=18156.msg158100#msg158100 date=1112082718]
I'm a bit angry here. Why is that everyone we channel insists on being self-help guide instead of providing us with interesting knowledge? Practical knowledge? I don't care about the other planets we're never going to discover in this life time. Where's the cure for AIDs or cancer that would save hundreds of lives? If it's in the Ashkashic, as all recorded knowledge of the past, present, and future is (and the certainty of a future discovery of cures is an inevitable possibility, and not a matter of "if" it is discovered), it should be accessible! So where is this information?

INSERT: I'm getting the intuitive feeling here that they could tell us, but thatwould be cheating. It still doesn't answer why projectionists and channelers couldn't do this.

Your feeling about 'cheating' is correct. They could do this. They can do this. They do do this all the time, but then we stop the game of existence, define what is cheating, remove the actions of cheating, penalize those who cheated, rewind time a bit, and start everything up again (this is often what perceptions of 'missing time' are about). It does no good to an individual to take away his/her chosen challenge, the way s/he wants to learn about matter and mortality. It's like helping a butterfly emerge from its cocoon without struggling. The struggle is necessary to form its wings properly that it might fly. If you help it, its wings don't form right and it cannot ever fly. So, when you look at helping or healing a person, whom are you helping? Cheating to take away a person's challenges is even worse in effect on the growth of those involved. If there are cures for AIDS accessible on the Astral (and there are), the thing to do is to get the person afflicted skilled at Astral Projection, so if it is part of his/her pre-scripted way of learning and being entertained, then s/he can involve it in his/her story.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg158440#msg158440 date=1112279587]
It can be a training ground to develop your abilities and control your mind by slowing it down to a low vibration. The solid physical dampens the thought = action spiral effectively, giving you a better control.

Exactly.

Having said that, why would anyone build such a horrific training school? And why would one still like to come here after a single experience.

The lessons learned here, the memories of this place are amazingly persistent.

If you really wanted to learn something it could have been at least painless and a little bit pleasent, with an option to painlessly abort the training.

Yeah. Such lessons don't 'stick' at all. They are incredibly forget-able. No-one sticks thru the rough periods in such places. Try out Yahoo chess, and watch how many opponents will quit a losing-game rather than seeing it thru and possibly getting enough negative experience to learn from it. The 'abort' is painless, and doesn't affect their rating, where a loss would definitely do so.

See, you can find metaphysical lessons almost anywhere!

Oh, and most importantly, I dont see a need to destroy all the knowledge of youself before going to a school.

A large part of the 'adventure' is self-re-discovery. Would any of the Survival shows have been nearly as entertaining if everyone had access to all of their things and resources? So life of Earth is like one tremendous 'Survival reality TV show' where the most important resource of each participant, his/her memory of self and abilities, has not been removed but veiled and passworded so that it can't be accessed without a lot of personal work.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

author=Psan link=topic=18156.msg160979#msg160979 date=1113944698]
Pain and pleasure, reward and punishment..... can be very effective methods of training, as we all know. (For the less evolved).

Nah, they work on pretty much everyone! What's most intense about this existence is that the relief from pain is itself an intense pleasure!

I feel that its only natural that we find ourselves in such a system. Perhaps the next level in this game will be driven by a hunger for knowledge, desire to create, curiosity and enjoyment.

This "level" is driven by those for some people (or you wouldn't have the terms to use).

[PurplAstrlMagma]

Hi

From my understanding, yeah. Life is like one huge virtual simulator. Not sure if its necessarily a concentration camp, but think about it....what would happen if an intelligent virus took over the World of Warcraft servers?

Ive been aware from many seperate sources that if 3D existence is like a computer game, then the Egyptian god Thoth would be the master programmer. Incidentally, he also runs the Akashic records.

So why dont ya'll astral project to the record hall and say "Hey! Thoth-bird-man-dude! We need to have a talk!" and ask him all this stuff yourself? As the god of communication (among many many other things) I think its safe to say that wont annoy him, lol, and he most certainly would have something interesting to say or do.

Indeed, but be ready to have to make agreements with him to share the knowledge you learn, and be delegated the training of someone who comes to Him that He doesn't have time for. That, in a nutshell, is a lot of what happened to me.

He is the trickster god as well, so it may not be what you expect.

Knowledge is tricky! Pretty much all knowledge gods are trickster gods (Hermes, Coyote, etc).

Hehe, and tell him Corie sent you!

:Love Light and Peace:

Corie

[Stillwater]

I'd tell you, but you wouldn't understand half of the terms.

Oh, heck, why not!

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

That is not good enough, lol.

You can't just write an equation like that- you need to define the terms and operations involved. For instance, what does the (~) indicate? Equations like that have no meaning if the terms are not defined.  I can say
De= {5(wL^4)}/384EI, but if I don't say De-deflection, or w-uniform load, the equation is gibberish.

I am legitimately interested- you should explain what you have written. It is of no value to speak to an Arabic person, and Answer their questions in Russian, unless you are going to translate for them 

[PurplAstrlMagma]

That is not good enough, lol.

You can't just write an equation like that- you need to define the terms and operations involved. For instance, what does the (~) indicate? Equations like that have no meaning if the terms are not defined.  I can say
De= {5(wL^4)}/384EI, but if I don't say De-deflection, or w-uniform load, the equation is gibberish.

I am legitimately interested- you should explain what you have written. It is of no value to speak to an Arabic person, and Answer their questions in Russian, unless you are going to translate for them 

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

Vtnl = 'Volitional', meaning an entity that can focus its will on something. F is 'focus'. ^ is exponential, so ^2 is 'squared'. lim is 'limit'. A = 'acceptance'. The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

So, the maximum value of Chi in an area is determined by (racial energy throughput times minimum spatial sample) [intensified at a greater value than exponentially](the will of the volitionals involved times their Focus squared) limited by the general Acceptance minus the Acceptance of the group of volitionals in that area.

Got it?
I'm not sure that I do.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

For the non-math geeks, 'factorial 5' would be 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1; and the result would be '120'. Since multiplication is 'only really fast addition', this could be represented as (5+5+5+5) = 20, (20+20+20) = 60, (60+60) = 120, (120+0) = 120. So I'm sure that )~ can be worked out thru multiple applications of the exponential operator, but I'm not exactly sure how.

[Royal-Gambit]

Obviously we have gotten a bit off track

I have pondered this question once before and its a bit of a doozie of a question, here is why:

First of all, what most people don't understand is that spirits with a good identity, we will go under assumption that all spirits are of similar form (race), tell us nothing but the things that matter. They can tell us there is eternal life, there is a god, not to sin, compassion, love , ect.

When we ask ourselves, what is useful? Surely nothing interpersonal is useful. Anything I could ask for in a greedy fashion is downright silly. Something like healing knowledge is very useful, and has been given to quite a few.

Ok the big one, where is the cure for cancer? Well, quite honestly I dont think I have ever met a person who asked for it. Professor Howard Storm, very famous man these days got all of his questions answered by a christian angel. Since I am sure there are many different religions on this forum I wont go into too much detail, but time and time again we hear stories of prayer healing things. If faith is all a person needs to live their <100 year life, and staying unselfish. Then it becomes quite obvious: All knowledge that we need to know is already here (within your religious texts), NDEs, because anything pressing another definition of useful is likely to be selfish.

David Herzog can cure. I can cure. Faith can cure...

If someone comes up with an intelligent 'useful' information, I will take this a bit more seriously.

Thanks, and great topic

[Stillwater]

tx)~Vtnl*F^2, lim = A-Grp Area A.

Vtnl = 'Volitional', meaning an entity that can focus its will on something. F is 'focus'. ^ is exponential, so ^2 is 'squared'. lim is 'limit'. A = 'acceptance'. The operator is not " ~ ", but " )~ ", and I don't quite get what it means, but it means something as much more intense than exponential than factorial is more intense than addition.

So, the maximum value of Chi in an area is determined by (racial energy throughput times minimum spatial sample) [intensified at a greater value than exponentially](the will of the volitionals involved times their Focus squared) limited by the general Acceptance minus the Acceptance of the group of volitionals in that area.

Thanks, purple. What are the units involved, though? What quantity, for instance, is focus, or "volitionals"
measured in?

[redblackmask]

Most likely though they know you don't deserve to hear the answer to the information.

[PurplAstrlMagma]

Thanks, purple. What are the units involved, though? What quantity, for instance, is focus, or "volitionals"
measured in?

I wish I knew, or could understand the answer when Source tells me. I've asked for explanations of the answer, and those answers just confuse me too. Sorry.