TED and Mainstream Science battle with 'Psience'.

[Bedeekin]

I'm not sure they are suppressing anything other than the common man/woman's ability to be anything other than a worker ant.

I really don't think they can or indeed are suppressing us spiritually and consciously. They have their heads stuck into what makes money.. not how you can go to Alpha Centauri for free.

[Lionheart]

 You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.

There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.

When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.

I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .

I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.

But I do now.

The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.

Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.

...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.

This is when once again, you become a quiet observer!  

[Wi11iam]

I am speaking of world governments, the wealthy elite, and major corporations to name a few. I am only referring to the "powers that be" in this PMR.

From what I can gather; these also have their counterparts in the 'afterlife' much as we all do and I think there really might be some or a lot of truth to the idea that they have been part of the elect for centuries and perhaps eons.

Reincarnating over and over into their positions, they keep their place in the scheme of things.  It is possible that just as they manipulate through various means here in this world, they also do the same in the NPM.

However, they are out classed because they seek to keep the illusion alive and while there is a certain power to this, it too is illusionary compared to that which they purposefully seek to hide (veil).

The individual who can learn from this will not have to go through that lesson again. 

[Wi11iam]

You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.

There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.

When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.

I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .

I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.

But I do now.

The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.

Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.

...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.

This is when once again, you become a quiet observer!  

I cannot say why this has been so for you.  What I can say is that if there is data which might be helpful then there is no good reason to suppress it.

If you would encourage individuals to practice ways of achieving OOBE and 'seeing for their selves' then you are not merely being an observer but you are consciously participating.
If what they experience is only subjective and based on belief then what you encourage may be no more or less than participation in illusion – something for the ego self to get distracted with and of no real value to real growth.

It is important to understand that just because you might experience things while attached to this PMR does not prove that this will be what is experienced when that body you have eventually dies...

Maybe it will maybe it won't, but I caution vigilance myself.  When veils conceal, deny, prohibit, censor, then we can shrug and accept the official explanation (observe how that is going in this world) or we can make an effort to get closer to the truth.

One thing I do not want to have to answer to is why I kept my mouth shut...and I don't think an answer such as 'I was told to just observe' will cut the mustard.

The most likely reply to such would be 'who told you?' and to say 'Oh I don't know, I only know that I was shown what they could prevent me doing, so I assumed they were an authority over me' would be pretty lame to say the least.

[Lionheart]

 I now understand exactly why you don't AP Wi11iam.

You answered my question without even knowing it.

So now, you will feverishly go over what you said, looking for what I am talking about right now.

You are becoming easier and easier to read! 

[Astralzombie]

One thing I do not want to have to answer to is why I kept my mouth shut...and I don't think an answer such as 'I was told to just observe' will cut the mustard.

The most likely reply to such would be 'who told you?' and to say 'Oh I don't know, I only know that I was shown what they could prevent me doing, so I assumed they were an authority over me' would be pretty lame to say the least.

Who do you think we might have to answer to?

I do not like to go into much detail concerning many of my experiences. This is only because they are intimately personal and can provide no more data than what someone can see and learn for themselves.

Contrary, to what you might believe, no one here is guarding any secrets of the astral, we are all guarding personal truths. And I do mean all.

You are in danger of trapping yourself into a belief of their being secret keepers of the astral. There may or may not be, I don't know. But I can guarantee, that there will be secrets withheld from you when the times comes because you already believe it so. Just be careful about that.

[Wi11iam]

I now understand exactly why you don't AP Wi11iam.

You answered my question without even knowing it.

So now, you will feverishly go over what you said, looking for what I am talking about right now.

You are becoming easier and easier to read! 

You need to become honest...with your true self.

You never asked me a question.  You are a game player, but this is no game.

You will discover that - not by observing or even accepting. 

[Wi11iam]

Who do you think we might have to answer to?

I do not like to go into much detail concerning many of my experiences. This is only because they are intimately personal and can provide no more data than what someone can see and learn for themselves.

Contrary, to what you might believe, no one here is guarding any secrets of the astral, we are all guarding personal truths. And I do mean all.

You are in danger of trapping yourself into a belief of their being secret keepers of the astral. There may or may not be, I don't know. But I can guarantee, that there will be secrets withheld from you when the times comes because you already believe it so. Just be careful about that.

Simon – do you read the other posts?  I was commenting on another post regarding what was said ... specifically;

" I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out."

Your not going into details about your experiences is not relevant – many people have do and will continue to do so and it is that data which interests me and allows me to connect the dots.  Your sharing or keeping things to yourself is not any issue for me.

I do not have an opinion on anyone here guarding 'secrets of the astral' because their 'secrets' are most likely subjective experience which as you say, is personal to them.

Whether I 'believe' or not that secrets will be kept from me is not here nor there.  If you were to tell me that if I believed that no secrets would be kept from me, would you also guarantee that this would be the case?

Indeed, how can you guarantee anything?

[Wi11iam]

Another likely reason TED disasociated might have to do with mention of mind altering drugs.

I was reading some BB rules and this is what they said about posting on the topic of drugs:

Drug discussion
Drug and substance usage is practiced by some shamanistic groups and individuals, to obtain spiritual experiences. While such practices are up to the individuals concerned, the discussion of these things is a matter of public concern. Detailed discussion of drug usage for the purposes of obtaining spiritual experience is not allowed on the Astral Dynamics forums. Our forums attract a wide age group, including children and teens. Exposing impressionable members to ideas and promises of spiritual experiences through substance use is not allowed. Such conversations should be conducted outside of the forums, and not posted in public. Conversations that discuss and/or promote drug usage are also illegal in some countries.

Please understand that this reasoning has *nothing* to do with respect issues for mature individuals or religious or shamanic type practices involving drugs and substances relating to spiritual experience, to all of which we have the utmost respect and consideration.

The 4 key points of this issue:

1: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au is available internationally to anyone

2: Many impressionable young people and teens frequent this forum.

3: Discussions on using drugs, illegal or legal, to achieve spiritual and OBE type experiences could legally be viewed as promoting drug use, and as promoting drug use to minors, in some countries.

4: To allow adult drug related topics and discussions in such a public and international forum, that discusses spiritual matters, would force us at the very least to seek extensive legal opinions from multiple countries, to impose and enforce age limitations and proof of age of membership, plus extensive legal disclaimers in multiple languages, international litigation insurance, lawyers, etc, etc, etc. This would be a proverbial nightmare.

This puts the discussion of drug use relating to spiritual experience in the 'too hard basket' of our forums.

Special note regarding Salvinia Divorum: This substance is in Australia, and controlled in the US. It is also illegal on some U.S. states (see: http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_law3.shtml). In light of this, it is considered an illegal drug and falls under the above rules. Please do not consider Salvia to be "okay" to talk about, regardless of how you personally feel about it or whether or not it is legal where you happen to live.

This decision is final.

http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/faq.php?faq=boardrules#faq_interpretationrules

This is from Astral Dynamics Down-Under Community and is shows that even the open-minded groups encouraging awareness of altered state experiences are loath to have to deal with the subject, so it is no particular wonder that general scientific communities are not interested in being associated with the subject.

[Astralzombie]

Of course I'm reading the posts and I was replying specifically to your response in regards to Lion stating what he has been told in the NPR, namely to not tell others and to just observe.

To say " I don't know, I was just following orders", does not cut the mustard in military tribunals covering war crimes but it's perfectly acceptable and understandable when someone is shown subjective truths in the NPR. Again, to understand this reasoning, one needs to have their own experiences.

I must have completely misread your words, so I apologize if I have. Twice now, two members have reported that they have been told in the NPR not to speak of certain experiences. Both times you responded how that doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported. I mistakenly took that to mean that you were interested in their subjective experiences. Silly me.

[Lionheart]

I must have completely misread your words, so I apologize if I have. Twice now, two members have reported that they have been told in the NPR not to speak of certain experiences. Both times you responded how that doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported. I mistakenly took that to mean that you were interested in their subjective experiences. Silly me.

It doesn't matter what Wi11iam says about the fact that it doesn't cut it and that everything should be reported.

You either listen and abide or you don't get to access the information anymore. Plain and simple.

Which means we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place! 

But, I wouldn't expect Wi11iam to understand this anyways. Perhaps this is the reason the NPR hasn't revealed itself to him consciously aware already.

[Mr.Flip]

You know in a way you have been right all along Wi11iam.

There is much that I haven't said, a lot of things that I have come to know during my NPR visits.

When I first started to AP, I was told to "just observe". I chose to question everything instead and also shared my experiences and what I learned from them with others.

I was then "banned", from who, I never did find out. Could it have been from my own Consciousness, I have found that anything is possible .

I couldn't figure out for the life of me why I was being chastised for trying to help others with what I was seeing, learning and experiencing. I even called Coast to Coast a couple of times to set their Guest straight.

But I do now.

The reason is simple, people will find out all of this when they are ready to. They will find out the answers to all their questions, once they are ready to deal with and handle those answers.

Just like I was shown my truths, everyone gets to witness theirs when they are ready for that information to be shown to them.

...and after while you come to just "know" things. It's not really coming from a conscious memory you have. You just do.

This is when once again, you become a quiet observer!  

u know lionheart i may bump heads with u at times but that right there is 100% i can agree with and very very well put.

but throwing in my 2 cents i was told that looks can be deceiving and that sometimes in life we have decoys, right now as we speak they are debating the definition of marriage and the rights of homo sexual individuals, which i do agree is an important inevitable subject to a certain degree, but! it is a total diversion for the majority of the country to get their attention away from the economy which in reality is way more important at the moment... i feel the same when it comes to NPR and physical reality....

i do truly believe in my heart that the i guess so called "discovery" of NPR is super important to the moral and intellectual foundations of a living being but at the same time i believe and i mean truly believe that recognizing, enforcing and Defending the unalienable rights of an individual in the physical and (NPR) is way way more important than getting the knowledge out of astral projection or NPR whatever

if we fail to do that then there wont be anyone left even believing that they are free living individuals in a PHYSICAL REALITY, everyone will be a mindless worker ant

Conspiracy wise? dude I'm from chicago of course they dont want the scientist to expose anything, corruption knows an uneducated people is easiest to persuade or manipulate. corruption stems from Evil and the root of all Evil is the Love for Money and or POWER

NPR or astral projection is Self Evident enough said

[Astralzombie]

I don't necessarily believe that there are different realms or levels of the astral but it sure seems like it at times.

Some of my experiences are completely painted by my "wants" and expectations and other times, there seems to be very little that is influenced by the same. Regardless of how this all works, we will only see what we are open to seeing. Plain and simple.

If I'm completely closed off to something existing, I won't experience it but if I am open to the possibility of something existing, then I just might see it whether i consciously want to or not. When we are ready, we will each see our own truth's. What does that mean? Exactly what it says.

There are somethings that are facts objectively despite what we believe while there are other things that may only be true for you because you personally want to believe it. Both are personal truths.

[Wi11iam]

It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one.  To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.

I am connected in other ways and not exempt in the slightest. 

[Mr.Flip]

It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one.  To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.

What truth !!!!!
do you even know specifically of what you speak of !!!
Do you honestly believe there is something NEW in our spiritual understanding?!!!!
Tell me this Truth PLEASE right here in this topic!!! I want to be enlightened since i have not found this Truth, the final Truth, the one Truth to rule them all!!!

At the end of the road we realized that there was no new destination, but that the Goal is to not forget the road which leads to the Final destination.

[Wi11iam]

What truth !!!!!
do you even know specifically of what you speak of !!!
Do you honestly believe there is something NEW in our spiritual understanding?!!!!
Tell me this Truth PLEASE right here in this topic!!! I want to be enlightened since i have not found this Truth, the final Truth, the one Truth to rule them all!!!

At the end of the road we realized that there was no new destination, but that the Goal is to not forget the road which leads to the Final destination.

If you are telling me that I am exempt then where is the evidence?

[Mr.Flip]

Im not excluding u im all im saying is that ur final truth is to uphold that which has always existed and been self-evident

[Wi11iam]

Im not excluding u im all im saying is that ur final truth is to uphold that which has always existed and been self-evident

My comment which you quoted:

It remains evident that being able to travel in other realities does not in itself change the way things are unfolding in this one.  To suggest that because someone is more focused upon what is going on in this reality and as a result is purposefully exempt from experiencing other realities is religious thinking and bears no resemblance to the actual truth.

was in relation to a prior post with a personal comment directed at me and isn't even relevant to the thread topic, other than perhaps to show the difference between a scientific type approach and a religious type one.

I have no 'final truth' - I do not even understand that expression.  That which has always existed is not always evident to 'self'  .

[Astralzombie]

Hey there, William. 

I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?

Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.

[Wi11iam]

Hey there, William. 

I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?

Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.

Hey there (I forgot your name) 

Do you think what you describe above is what death is about? 

[Astralzombie]

Hey there (I forgot your name) 

Simon

Do you think what you describe above is what death is about? 

It's interesting that you asked that because my intro into all of this occurred spontaneously and in that moment, I 100% believed that the only way that the experience was possible was if I was dead.

So, I tend to believe that it might be a close experience but of course I can't be sure.

[Wi11iam]

 

It's interesting that you asked that because my intro into all of this occurred spontaneously and in that moment, I 100% believed that the only way that the experience was possible was if I was dead.

So, I tend to believe that it might be a close experience but of course I can't be sure.

Well Simon, my own experiences show me that something similar occurs at death, although as you say, we cannot be sure - but certainly the death of the body will provide us each with an answer eventually. 

I was wondering something. What would you do if you were to awake and find yourself in the "astral" spontaneously with all your awareness and focus?

Would you take advantage of it and explore or would you exit? You have already acknowledged that you have done your time in the "astral" without your full awareness as everyone does. I know you are very goal oriented and you have your reasons for not projecting but I don't think you would pass up the opportunity to explore with full awareness if were to just happen.

Eventually it will happen upon death, if it happens at all and is not 'all in the brain' Simon.  Sometimes we get distracted from the reality we are predominantly within (just as surely as we get distracted by it) - for me the important thing is to learn exactly who/what I am and channel that into whatever reality I am experiencing - such a tiny role in the scheme of things but enjoyable enough.

[Mr.Flip]

I have no 'final truth' - I do not even understand that expression.  That which has always existed is not always evident to 'self'  .

well of course they have to be self-evident or else it couldnt have been found/discovered, but it does not rule out that it is hard to solve

Eventually it will happen upon death, if it happens at all and is not 'all in the brain' Simon.  Sometimes we get distracted from the reality we are predominantly within (just as surely as we get distracted by it) - for me the important thing is to learn exactly who/what I am and channel that into whatever reality I am experiencing - such a tiny role in the scheme of things but enjoyable enough.

And Death is the ultimate KISS proof!
Death reveals a level of equality with every living being. Life obviously is in connection with consciousness.
With Life comes Power, with power, Responsibility and  This requires a foundation
having a conscious means you are aware of the descions between good and evil or bad whatever u chose, because if your not aware of the two then your ignorant towards the other, you Ignore it.

and that video makes a great point we do have a War on consciousness, and it comes from bothsides because even saints can be ignorant towards the natural rights of others.

[Wi11iam]

well of course they have to be self-evident or else it couldnt have been found/discovered, but it does not rule out that it is hard to solve

And Death is the ultimate KISS proof!
Death reveals a level of equality with every living being. Life obviously is in connection with consciousness.
With Life comes Power, with power, Responsibility and  This requires a foundation
having a conscious means you are aware of the descions between good and evil or bad whatever u chose, because if your not aware of the two then your ignorant towards the other, you Ignore it.

and that video makes a great point we do have a War on consciousness, and it comes from bothsides because even saints can be ignorant towards the natural rights of others.

Everyone of course is entitled to their beliefs in good versus evil.  Those who do should not judge those who prefer not to take sides, but of course often judgement is part of the reason such beliefs exist in the first place. 

[Mr.Flip]

So what is wrong with judgement?