Energy raising, is it necessary?

[Deanwttck]

Ive tried to AP ,what seems forever, 2-3 years, with no luck. Having read Robert Bruce, how to AP in 90 days , alpng with other books,he stresses the importance of raising your energy,thru energy bouncing etc.  I have a hard time doing this for any length of time , usually just a minute or so, cause I guess I'm kind of sceptical, and I think this is just a waste of time. For others out there, is this an important part of your AP process? . I guess if I hear from a lot of AP -ers that this really helps , I could take it more seriously . Thanks

[Szaxx]

I've had experiences for around 50 years. In the last 2 I've found I'm not on my own. Energy work may help, I've never known it and never needed it. I've tried it after reading the book and found it useful in removing pain of all things. I have a basic working knowledge of acupressure and it's strangely related.
If you feel it's not for you then find something else. There's plenty on this site in the stickies. Have a read, something will be there to grab your attention.
If you can relate to the experiences, a question is all you need to ask as in your post on this topic.
It will be answered, there's help in many different aspects of this art already, searching for them is reasonably easy.
It's a big site.
Welcome to the Pulse, I hope your soon finding the answers and having that experience you're wanting.

[Xanth]

If you're skeptical about something, the chances of it happening naturally are greatly reduced.  That is probably the problem.

ALthough, I'll tell you outright that "energy raising" *IS NOT* required in order to project... I have never done any of that stuff.

[Stillwater]

Robert Bruce has a very different perspective than you will mostly find here.

I haven't found energy work necessary to project, and I am not even sure it is beneficial for projection in all honesty. Personally I am very speculative about what "energy work" actually represents. My own personal leanings tell me it might be an intention and manifestation thing- you want very much to have an effect, and thus you do such and such technique rigorously. Perhaps the intention itself causes psychosomatic effects, or perhaps it has something to do with a more metaphysical expression of will.

Energy work absolutely has results for the serious practitioners, but as I said, I don't think it is because the practitioners have worked out the science of it all so much as they might be tapping into some intention-driven phenomenon. If I am right in thinking this, then your determined intention to project will get you just as far.

[Astralsuzy]

Xanth is correct.   You do not need to do energy raising to ap.   I think people want you to do it so they can sell their course or book.  They try to make ap more complicated so they can sell something.   If you think you need to do energy raising to ap then you are more likely need to do it.   If you do not think you need to then you do not need to.   I have ap a number of times and I do not do energy raising. 

[Astralzombie]

I have never done any kind of energy work. I don't know the name of the chakras. With that said, I do not discount the importance or the validity of it all as I know that a great many people benefit from it. I even believe that it has probably saved the lives of some people and helped to improve their overall health.

If the day comes that I fell as if I am not progressing or I see another need to, then I will even consider doing energy work myself.

IMO, I think that trying to do too many things at once is a hindrance and can become confusing when trying to understand the different terminology and viewpoints.

For years, I didn't even know that I was meditating. I just considered it relaxing and clearing my mind.

This doesn't imply that their is no benefit to doing energy work before you are able to AP. It may even enhance your experiences and accelerate your learning.

I don't know what I don't know but I do know that I had my first intentional OOBE relatively quickly and I was about as ignorant as you could be when it came to all the techniques, methods and philosophies regarding the matter.

But I had belief galore that it was real and that I could do it.

[Stillwater]

I don't know what I don't know

Classic Rumsfeld 

[Volgerle]

I've told the story here already a few times. I know I am pretty alone with this and understand the bias of those who do not and never experienced strongly "energetic" events, but:

Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence. - William Cowper

I have personal proof. In other words: I did not find energy (work). But energy found me. 

My first exits were highly energetic (kundalini and all that) events and I did not "expect" or "intend" them, neither did I know about them in theory before.

I did not know about "chakras" and "kundalini" then. Neither about "energy work", had not read from or about Robert Bruce then (just Buhlmann and Monroe) when I had my first conscious exit.

While this might be seen as proof that energy work is not necessary, this is on the other hand PROOF to me that 'energy' is not the RESULT of intent or expectation, they might be TRIGGERS though. But "energy" has its own reality.

In my experience back then, I had read about "vibrations" in Buhlman's book, which was the first and only one I had read then, so maybe there was an expectation to "feel" at least something. That might have helped trigger it (or not).

However: the very fact that I had no vibrations at all the first time but a VERY VERY DIFFERENT ENERGETIC EVENT almost tearing me apart (literally) proves to me that this "expectation" is not the explanation. Neither is "intent".

My "expectation" of "sth with vibrations, as mentioned in that book (Buhlmann)" might at the utmost helped to trigger this event, but the trigger is not the experience itself moreover since the experience was not vibrations. So the ensuing event of something UNKOWN - which I only later VERIFIED theoretically by other accounts on the internet and in literature is PROOF enough for me. Personal proof.

I do not perform a lot of energy work a lot today. And yes it is true, here I agree, you don't have to know about it or do it to have NPMR experiences. This I also can confirm from my own experience.

But that does not mean the energy is "not real". Neither does it disprove that it can be beneficial for some projectors, like it is beneficial to train your muscles for achieveing better sports results.

I know many will not want to follow what I have to tell here (except maybe CFT and Lionheart of whom I know to be energetic experiencers too). This also shows to me why some of the more "energetic" experiencers don't feel home here and left , with e.g. Todd who had amazing "etheric projections" producing raps and other telekinetic effects in his physical room as a very good example:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/etheric_projection_and_kundalini_symptoms-t37565.0.html

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/is_obe_been_proved_scientifically-t37667.0.html;msg308883#msg308883

I still don't understand why people try to prove OBE's by using their visual sense in the rtz (example card tricks, 5 digit numbers, etc.)

I have moved objects during etheric projections. This is my recommend way to prove OBE's and the rtz are real. If you have difficulties in figuring out how to move objects, you can practice on a psi or chi wheel. There are some good youtube videos showing how.

Once you get good on the psi or chi wheel, then you can start practicing moving objects during etheric projections.

In my opinion, etheric projections are about energy. Relying on the visual sense may lead to reality fluctuations.

I have moved objects under different etheric states. I'll give one example of me actually moving an object from each etheric state.

1) One etheric state is by expanding your etheric body while it is still in the physical body. This would be an etheric ballooning expansion which makes contact with an object to move it. This has to be done relatively close to the physical body, since the etheric body is technically still attached to the physical body, but it has expanded to make contact with the object. The most amazing example of this etheric state is when I was laying in bed on my back and knocked a curtain down off its rail. This scared me a lot, until I realized what I did. I inspected the curtain afterwards to make sure it was a valid experiment. The curtain came down at the exact same moment I willed my etheric energy towards it.

2) The second etheric state is by actually separating your etheric body from your physical body and moving your etheric body to the object. There is no etheric ballooning effect with this type since there is an actual separation of the etheric body from the physical body. The most amazing example of this etheric state is when I knocked the toilet bowl cleaner handle apparatus off my shower wall frame. I put it here to allow it to dry before I would store it away. This one I had to pull in etheric matter from the environment to make my separated etheric body denser to allow myself to be able to knock it down. After I knocked it down, I went straight back to my body to confirm this experience was successful.

You see, it's tiring for me reading about all of this closed-mindedness, but okay, I have to accept the bias.

Still, I remain adamant with good reason in asserting that there is a reality of its own behind the millenia-old energy body / chakra / meridians theories (hindu-vedic, buddhist, native-american or whatever), accupucture and other energy healing modes also proves it to me, and we should not forget that these theories are not 'religious' but are based on observations (buddhist, esoteric, meditation science, if you will).

[Stillwater]

I found at a very young age very much of use in the Upanishads. My feeling is that the Vedic and Buddhist paradigms of the chakras represent a real phenomenon. By real, I mean something that has a demonstrable experential component common across many individuals. I have felt it myself very strongly. I have felt powerful (and sometimes overwhelming) sensations in the areas attributed the the chakras very often during meditation. For that reason I can never say there is no reality to it. 

When attempting to formulate explanations of what is going on however, I typically try on the explanations that require the least assumptions to be true. So I guess I go with a deconstructive approach: what do "energy events" provide the experiencer with? "Sensations" must be the answer in every case, otherwise nothing would be experienced. The sensations that most resemble to me those that I have experienced and others have described to me are intense nerve firings. The "vibrations" to me feel very much like hyper-firing sensory nerves, like every nerve ending in my skin and head has lit up like a christmas tree, therefore that is the explanation that seems most plausible to me. Further, the "chakra sensations" all occur coincidentally enough at major nerver ganglia, and to me very much feel like a pulsing, throbbing / buzzing that has its closest analogue to me in the sensations of a mis-struck nerve.

I think it is very possible to argue for these sensations to represent some sort of energy body effects, but to me that approach requires a few points. The first would be an explanation of why physical attributions such as nerve effects are insufficient to account for all the of experienced effects. The next point would be a sufficient reason to posit the existence of something not everyone agrees to exist. Now that second point is possible clearly, because we are all here because we believe something which the scientific community doesn't recognize as existing (projection to other realities) nevertheless exists. All of this withstanding, I haven't encountered a strong argument yet for the existence or explanatory necessity of energy bodies tethered to our physical body. I have felt powerful sensations and others have as well, but going from the sensations to an explanation of what the sensations are, are two different steps.

[Astralzombie]

I wasn't trying to answer the question of energy work being a real phenomenon. I was just replying to the original question as to whether or not it is necessary to project.

In my case, the answer is no and it appears to be true for a few others as well.

I am not close-minded to it's validity or importance. I just haven't personally found a reason to do it myself but like I said, I am completely open to it should the day come that I feel it is needed.

[desert-rat]

I dont know if it is necessary , but many of the self hypnosis a.p. tapes use one form of white light meditation or another another . Some will use a bubble of white light , others will have you visualize white light in each of the chakras .  This is a post by me on another forum it is from a book and based on the Golden Dawn ritual of the same name .
http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=56764

[CFTraveler]

Ive tried to AP ,what seems forever, 2-3 years, with no luck. Having read Robert Bruce, how to AP in 90 days , alpng with other books,he stresses the importance of raising your energy,thru energy bouncing etc.  I have a hard time doing this for any length of time , usually just a minute or so, cause I guess I'm kind of sceptical, and I think this is just a waste of time. For others out there, is this an important part of your AP process? . I guess if I hear from a lot of AP -ers that this really helps , I could take it more seriously . Thanks

Energy work is never a waste of time- it has helped me in many ways, including projection.
There are various ways to project-the preferred method in this site seems to be phasing, which is essentially applied clairvoyance. for this energy work is not that helpful, because it's essentially a procedure that uses no sense of body or movement or effort.
But for 'old fashioned' OBE, where you move your awareness to another place in what appears to be physical reality, energy work is extremely helpful- the difference between getting halfway stuck or having no control when you manage to get out.  So, of you're not able to stay 'out' long enough, energy work may make a difference, because it helps you have a sense of what your energy body is (and that it is, something some people will tell you doesn't exist) and how to use it.
So, it depends on what you're trying to do.  And for OBE, I say that you may or may not need it, but I think you do.

[Szaxx]

I'm unsure of the closed mindedness. Having read the topic again, valid comments on the title have been made.
It comes over generally, as not being a technique used by many but it's not being discounted. Your reference to todd's experiences is a very good utilisation of energy with a purpose but doesn't address the original question.
Reading NEW (the book) has opened up to many, the energy involved can be used to aid in an exit. It does something to help, it's easier from personal experimentation but not a necessity.
I had to laugh though, thinking about our art. How could you even accept it's existance with a closed mind?
Im either missing your point or misinterpreted the comment.
We're in this together and having myriads of nocturnal adventures.
It's all about energy as you feel the lack of it when you get that too familiar pull. Times up...