Classic OBE vs. Phasing

[Tee1234]

Tee1234,

Perhaps this article I wrote for my website would make my ideas on the "RTZ" more clear. 

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2011/02/22/what-is-the-rtz-focus-1-projection/

Wow, I can see how you took that the wrong way, -my bad. When I said I exit my body and im in "real time", I didnt mean it the way its coin phrased there.

Had no idea you guys had real time coin phrased. -lol

Heres what I meant.- When I exit my body im actually in my room. Its real. Not a hologram, hullucination, any type of mindbender, its real. Its like this every time I do it, which is alot. There's no question where I am, like I said I could watch tv if I wanted. I mean that dice thing I did was a sure thing for me.
Also I said- When I leave my room I leave real time. And with real time I obviously meant where my actual bedroom is where my physical body is. ya see-
Thats why I did that dice experiment. get it?
The farther I move away from my body it starts to change though. Its almost like I have a 10-15ft radious from my body before I cross over.
I go to the Astral. I know when im there its unmistakable. Its not hard, I dont even question it I always know where i am.

See here it is from my view. I do this almost everynight. Heres how it goes for me..

EXAMPLE: Vibrations come, I exit my body. Im in my room watching myself sleep.
Say Beavis n Butthead is on tv while im going to sleep -I can finish watching it when I exit my body. I can float in front of the tv and watch the rest of the episode. -Guys, thats an actual obe, if anybody cant do something like that, then Id question if your actually having an obe.

Im curious, after reading some of these threads seems like alot of people our mistaken dreaming for obes.

Xanth, you understand what im saying though. I have no doubt that when I first exit my body im in my actual bedroom. Im actually staring at myself sleeping -its me. Then I go do whatever, wherever I want. No doubt its all real -no doubt.

Since were talking about this though, how is it for you? Tell me step by step. Dont be afraid to get down n dirty. Start from the vibrations.. send me a message if ya want instead.

[Tee1234]

This is very typical. You can interpret this in a number of ways. You have either gone from the RTZ into the astral...OR...when we have such experiences we are unconsciously creating constructs every time, meaning not the real thing.

The immediate vicinity can often be accurate as the sensation of moving away from the body may prompt the brain to produce something that will make sense or that ties in with your separation decision. A construct from expectation. All the while it may not know that you are conscious of inducing what you call an OOBE.

The further away you go from the "expectation" construct which may display a few anomalies anyway, the more the neurons feel like they can "relax" become more loose in their communication and produce more nonsensical environments as by now they may be aware that the conscious self isn't necessarily expecting the rules that apply in waking life... not so strictly anyway. Perhaps the brain allows this to happens because it is aware that the conscious self will still retain its sanity. It is very much like one has entered a lucid dream from a 'waking state' of mind.

Did you know that if all the neural connections between your brain cells were laid out end to end they could reach to the moon and back? and the cells are more numerous than all the stars that we see in the universe. Think about that. Our brains are supercomputers which constantly develop if we look after ourselves. It also grew itself which is amazing!

..Bro, I dont even know what your talking about.

[djed]

Tee, Hi, I have had many OOBE, classic, starting in the bedroom hovering over my body, then sometimes walking outside, going down the road seeing people.
Or other times I would just dive up through the roof and I am in the astral flying over beautiful countryside going to other cities.
Sometimes I have experienced hypnogogic sounds, vibrations so powerful they are, at the same time, painful and pleasurable. Many times I have no vibrations.
I don't know why this is. I have read that the vibes are there always but so fast that we don't perceive them.
One of my theories is that the vibrations are caused by the unblocking of our chakras (energy centers) and as we get clearer of these obstacles we dont get vibrations.
If someone can verify this or knows who has written on this explaining this phenomena I would be interested.
Cheers, djed 

[Summerlander]

Tee1234,

Perhaps this article I wrote for my website would make my ideas on the "RTZ" more clear.  

http://unlimitedboundaries.ca/2011/02/22/what-is-the-rtz-focus-1-projection/

This is a more feasible explanation of RTZ projections. It could still be metaphysical environments, accurate ones...and even the information that we definitely couldn't possibly have beforehand might have been acquired due to the possibility that we are the same consciousness on another level. This theory states that RTZ is an accurate simulation of the physical realm manifested by all of us.

Perhaps it is the final version of the idea before it collapses into reality as it also conveys time and the time can resemble waking life time. If you imagine a spectrum going from a 'loose' (possibly even abstract) archetypal reality which can manifest in so many different ways to a settled physical reality, the RTZ business would be the indigo before the violet.

In other words, if you prefer this terminology, RTZ is the ethereal realm that sits between the physical and the astral. But don't visualise this as though they are sheets of paper stacked on one another. It's about consciousness...not physical things.

..Bro, I dont even know what your talking about.

What don't you understand about my quote and perhaps I can clarify.

[Pauli2]

I base them entirely upon my own experiences with Phasing and Lucid Dreaming. 
My direct experiences have proven to me that we're not in our bodies to begin with.

I've now come to page 359 of the Frank PDF compilation (1187 pages in all) and have so far found very few detailed experiences of Frank on his own. And at times I feel _really_ provoked by his style of writing!

Have you written down anywhere, any of your experiences which support the theory that we are not IN our bodies, so we can not go OUT of body?
Could you please show us those experiences? Thanks.

Or are u just guessing and leaning on Frank's old posts?

[Xanth]

I've now come to page 359 of the Frank PDF compilation (1187 pages in all) and have so far found very few detailed experiences of Frank on his own. And at times I feel _really_ provoked by his style of writing!

Have you written down anywhere, any of your experiences which support the theory that we are not IN our bodies, so we can not go OUT of body?
Could you please show us those experiences? Thanks.

Or are u just guessing and leaning on Frank's old posts?

I'm talking about MY OWN experiences... and you keep talking about Frank.

You obviously don't seem able to grasp the concept of "having your own experiences" and how that is the only goal you should have.

I'm really sorry for you Pauli that you just don't seem to get it.

[Bedeekin]

Nothing leaves because if it did... I would be leaving something 'out' most of the time. Rarely do I actively separate nor conventionally return. I seemingly most of the time seem to focus and/or connect to my 'astral' (hate using that name) while it is in the middle of being somewhere doing something; as though I have suddenly possessed it while it was in the middle of something. This says to me that I am simply directing my focus to something that's already disembodied... in whatever sense.

Also I have come out of OOBEs several times because someone entered the room or called my name... I was theoretically 'away' far from my 'physical'.

[Pauli2]

I'm talking about MY OWN experiences.

yes, do you have them anywhere? In detail?

Have you written down anywhere, any of your experiences which supports your theory that we are not IN our bodies, so we can not go OUT of body?

Could you please show us those experiences in text?

Thanks.

[Pauli2]

Nothing leaves because if it did... I would be leaving something 'out' most of the time.

Contrary.

Most of the time we _do_ leave something out. For example both RB and Moen talk about it!

RB states that some part of us are in body and some part is out of body. Several other authors support the mind-split idea.

Moen talks about people going OBE, even when they are awake in physical reality. One example is right at the beginning of his 4th book, where a friend of his is up in F 27 while her in-body part is watching sit-com reruns!

[Bedeekin]

But nothing seems 'out'... per se

Where is 'out' anyway? This is internal not external.

RB also says that we need psychic protection from 'negs'. Who is Moen?

[Xanth]

Contrary.

Most of the time we _do_ leave something out. For example both RB and Moen talk about it!

RB states that some part of us are in body and some part is out of body. Several other authors support the mind-split idea.

Moen talks about people going OBE, even when they are awake in physical reality. One example is right at the beginning of his 4th book, where a friend of his is up in F 27 while her in-body part is watching sit-com reruns!

And you're basing this entirely off SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCES.

How about what YOU think Pauli?
What is Paulieffect's personal, experience-based opinion of it?

As for the specific example you provide, how does it exclusively prove that we're "in" our bodies?
I could just as easily say that it proves that we're not in our bodies at all as it shows the ability to focus our consciousness in many different directions at the same time. 

The fact of the matter is that what Robert Bruce, Bruce Moen and many others talk about is only their interpretation of "their" experiences.  It doesn't really apply to anyone but themselves.  This is the point that I've been trying to get through to you about over the past year... unsuccessfully apparently.

I'd love, one day, to hear Paulieffect talk about his interpretations of HIS OWN experiences without having the need to compare them to anyone else.

[Pauli2]

And you're basing this entirely off SOMEONE ELSE'S EXPERIENCES.

How about what YOU think Pauli?
What is Paulieffect's personal, experience-based opinion of it?

As for the specific example you provide, how does it exclusively prove that we're "in" our bodies?
I could just as easily say that it proves that we're not in our bodies at all as it shows the ability to focus our consciousness in many different directions at the same time. 

That's _not_ a valid answer.

So...

Your own experiences, to back up your claims!

Please.


---

Most likely you don't have a detailed answer, with experiences of your own and fail to back up your claims.

I think you're falling into the Frank trap of believing but not verifying with experiences of your own. You fail to question if your guru can verify his claims by _any_ experiences of his own to a certain degree, detail and quality!

Moen can!

RB can!

[Xanth]

That's _not_ a valid answer.

So...

Your own experiences, to back up your claims!

Please.


---

Most likely you don't have a detailed answer, with experiences of your own and fail to back up your claims.

I think you're falling into the Frank trap of believing but not verifying with experiences of your own. You fail to question if your guru can verify his claims by _any_ experiences of his own to a certain degree, detail and quality!

Moen can!

RB can!

You're still stuck having other people's experiences.  The most you can ever hope for, Pauli, is a belief in what your "authors" say.  You'll never actually KNOW it for yourself.

I feel like I'm wasting my breath with you, Pauli.  :/

[CFTraveler]

But nothing seems 'out'... per se

Where is 'out' anyway? This is internal not external.

That's a judgement dependent on worldview, not a fact.

Who is Moen?

Bruce Moen, a student of Monroe's.  Does soul retrievals and teaches how to do it.

[Stookie]

It's both. From a more physical perspective within time/space, yes, awareness separates. From a more non-physical perspective, there is nothing to separate from, it all happens within consciousness and there is no "outside". It just depends on your current perspective. Sometimes I gather that not many on this forum have experienced consciousness beyond time/space. It changes everything.

[Bedeekin]

"it all happens within consciousness and there is no "outside""

Exactly.

[Tee1234]

"it all happens within consciousness and there is no "outside""

Exactly.

What do u mean? Are you saying you dont actually leave your body??

Cause if thats what you guys are saying im gonna have to strongly disagree.

Do you do the phase thing or the vibration.... jus curious?

[NoY]

Your mind is a giant sphere that covers all of life, made in the image of god
all you are doing is moving your focus from your 5 senses to somewhere else in your greater mind

all of life is within your mind and you never focus outside of that

:NoY:

[Pauli2]

"it all happens within consciousness and there is no "outside""

Exactly.

Based on what experience?

_Exactly_?

[Bedeekin]

From a none physical perspective.

I was agreeing with stookie.

There is an internalization when it comes to AP.

So if you separate into your 'astral' room... and walk to the door... do you think that this movement corresponds to the real world? In terms of position in space?

[Pauli2]

So if you separate into your 'astral' room... and walk to the door... do you think that this movement corresponds to the real world? In terms of position in space?

I haven't been able to walk, but managed to float out from a random SP, so yes I felt it was in the physical world, initially. Very physical. Not more physical than the physical and not less physical than physical. Just very physical.

Your turn.

[Summerlander]

You guys are all arguing about something you know bonk all about! LOL! You are all a bunch of idiotas!

From a none physical perspective.

"none physical"??

LMAO!

I haven't been able to walk, but managed to float out from a random SP, so yes I felt it was in the physical world, initially. Very physical. Not more physical than the physical and not less physical than physical. Just very physical.

Your turn.

Your dreams can feel physical too but they are NOT!!!! Also your brain is very much active when you OOBE and dream! 100 billion neurons each having about 20,000 shared connections! Something for you to think about!

[Bedeekin]

I haven't been able to walk, but managed to float out from a random SP, so yes I felt it was in the physical world, initially. Very physical. Not more physical than the physical and not less physical than physical. Just very physical.

Your turn.

I see...

haha... trick question passed. You float.

We got a 1st Phaser Summerlander!!... we got a 1st phaser!!!

[Pauli2]

LMAO!
Your dreams can feel physical too but they are NOT!!!! Also your brain is very much active when you OOBE and dream! 100 billion neurons each having about 20,000 shared connections! Something for you to think about!

Why am I able to know when I go LD then? How am I able to distinguish between the two states OBE and LD?

Don't pull my leg by saying that there is a border state where I can't tell one from the other, because I already know that.

[Xanth]

Based on what experience?

_Exactly_?

Give it a rest Pauli.
It's been spelled out for you multiple times already.

If you haven't understood it by now, you probably never will.