Energy moving to project? what is this?

[Xanth]

Actually he can, and apparently does.

However, you are completely allowed to disagree with him. 
Which apparently you are doing.  LoL

The particular passage of Selea's post to myself which you are quoting doesn't quite make the assertions that you claim it does though.
That passage is simply Selea's opinion on what his believed advantages of his particular way of thinking is.  I'm fine with that. 

[Oversoul123]

A) Baloney! No-one can do this. Whoever says they can is simply lying.

So you're claiming that whatever you can't understand and/or experience is impossible? That's an egoistical/naive claim, wouldn't you agree? Following that same line of thinking, we can then assume that if one scientist can't discover a cure for 'X' disease, then no other scientist can? pffft...

Hell, even you're hero Thomas Campbell claims that he has reached such a high point of proficiency with mantra meditation that he can phase at will. Are you going to call him a flat-out a liar as well? Or will you simply put your ego aside and consider the possibility that there are things that are still beyond your ability to grasp?

[Summerlander]

Oversoul123, firstly, he is not "my hero" and secondly, I am still currently reading his Big theory. so far so good, he's got a good view of reality. Thirdly, he does not phase at will. He needs mantra, meditation etc. etc.

The conditions have to be right. He does not phase while he's walking. It's not a matter of not understanding or not being able to do it. It's impossible. Period. One might as well call daydreaming phasing in which an individual is not fully focused there. To enter the Phase, it is required preparation and it takes time. You can't just will it and it happens in that same moment. It's common sense. Take some exogenous DMT and you might have an OOBE without the prep. Other than that, no. 100% no. Maybe in a million years when our brains have evolved a bit more...

Actually he can, and apparently does.

However, you are completely allowed to disagree with him.  
Which apparently you are doing.  LoL

The particular passage of Selea's post to myself which you are quoting doesn't quite make the assertions that you claim it does though.
That passage is simply Selea's opinion on what his believed advantages of his particular way of thinking is.  I'm fine with that.  

Note how Selea words his beliefs. He states them as facts. And so far I have not seen him describe how he projects at will.

Anyway, what Selea proposes I've already posted in a different forum. Butler used the same method. I'm gonna let people believe what they want here but I guarantee you that no-one projects at will. As Rudy said, it's the holy grail of OOBErs but I'd like to rephrase it...it would be the holy grail of OOBErs.

[Oversoul123]

Oversoul123, firstly, he is not "my hero"

Fair enough...  

I am still currently reading his Big theory. so far so good

It's a very good book.

Thirdly, he does not phase at will. He needs mantra, meditation etc. etc.

Let me clarify something first, the purpose of the mantra is simply to silence the mental thoughts, once that is achieved, the meditator lets go of the mantra and slips into an emptiness-of-mind meditation. So once the meditator reaches a high point of proficiency with the emptiness-of-mind meditation, the mantra is ditched for all the following attempts at phasing. So, to put it simply, Mr. Campbell has reached a point in which, at any time during the night/day, he closes his eyes, let's go of the physical, slips into the void, and reaches the phase without a mantra or a pre-nap.

So my question is this, how is he not phasing at will? Isn't phasing a meditation in and on itself?  When someone asks, "Can you project at will?" they mean, can you project at anytime during the day/night within reason, not whilst walking, swimming, or taking a dump. So I'm confused, what exactly do you mean by 'phasing at will'.

Take some exogenous DMT and you might have an OOBE without the prep.

Whenever I take DMT, I get a natural urge to close my eyes, once this happens, voila. I'm in the phase. It's as if the DMT triggers an involuntary meditation and launches me into 'outer space'. At least, that's how I perceive it.

[Rudolph]

Mr. Campbell has reached a point in which, at any time during the night/day, he closes his eyes, let's go of the physical, slips into the void, and reaches the phase without a mantra or a pre-nap.

He also claims to be able to shift awareness at will, within a few seconds, and then be able to see auras.

I don't know if that constitutes a phase shift but that has to be some seriously reduced entropy state! 

[Oversoul123]

He also claims to be able to shift awareness at will, within a few seconds, and then be able to see auras.

That's right! It's been a while since I've read his book. If I recall correctly, he also theorized that it was possible to physically teleport your body to any address in the known universe/dimensions.  Not only that, but claimed that it was also possible to materialize objects from the NPMR to the PMR.  If I understood correctly, in order to do this you had to learn the 'source code' in NPMR and reduce your entropy to accomplish this.  It's mind blowing stuff! 

[Selea]

"Taught"...also, it's called being "pragmatic". He is not claiming that things don't exist...he is merely focusing on what is a given and what's relevant. Get a dictionary.

And tell me, how can you decide before what's relevant and what's not? I'm curious to know.

By pretending a thing is relevant and another is not? By thinking a thing is relevant and another not? I'm sorry to say it to you but that's a "method" that brings only to self-delusion.

You have clearly never tried the pre-nap method and probably haven't ever projected at all because if you had, you'd know that with the pre-nap/sleep (or wake back to bed) method, you don't necessarily experience lapses in consciousness.

The lapse is ALWAYS there. Noticing it or not noticing it it doens't really matter. It is a staple of using sleep methods. If you did know how to do "exit" voluntarily then you would have enough control to always notice the lapse. In your condition, you cannot.

What you call "mind alert" is just your recollection of it but the lapse it's always there.

Btw, many authors very experienced in sleep methods have talked about this "lapse" and that's always there, but I suppose you know better than all of them, isn't it?

You seriously need to try the nap method! Try it! The energy work is a waste of time. There are so many people practising it and most still don't know what they are doing. In my opinion, the scam is as clear as daylight. I asked you to point out the pseudo-science from Raduga and so far you haven't.

I've done both methods from a lot of time already. I never speak about things I don't know first hand and I always research EVERYTHING (especially things I don't like or I think they are "bogus" at first), differently from you. I know the differences in both ways, while you don't, and you tell me I should try something?

(Then if I didn't know nothing about it how could I know that you act in "automatic" when using sleep methods? This is a thing that's neither mentioned usually in books  - differently from the "sometimes lapse sometimes not". Isn't it strange that you take as evidence only some things that for your they would "prove" that I know nothing about it, when then you discard completely others that clearly demonstrates the contrary? Using the well known method of "pointing out only what is good to your cause, discarding all the rest", are you?)

All I see is that you have no intention of having an open mind and instead you continue insisting that this or that is "hocus-pocus" without never having ever tried it once and without either minimally care to experience if that's so or not. How do you call this? I call it being full of it, as you are.

As for Raduga I already told you that he doesn't either know fully of what he talks about (as you), what do you want more?

You need to do some serious research on sleep cycles and it is possible to do it before sleep (you will also find this in the book - do read it because I don't think you have - and if you have...well, you misunderstood its content.

What part of "YOU NEED *SLEEP* ANWYAY" you didn't get in my last message? Wasn't difficult to get. But I see you completely sidestepped all my examples. Good strategy, but it doesn't work.

The truth is that, once you enter the Phase and you believe that the playing with the "energy" has helped you, than that is exactly what you manifest. It isn't the energy or the vibes. It is your BELIEF and EXPECTATION that delivers results.

And you know this from personal experience, isn't it?

You come here pointing fingers and saying that many have no control in their experiences but so far you have shown me that you know very little (reminder: especially about what happens in the pre-sleep method). By the way, the people who enter the Phase while walking...you just believe them?

I didn't "believe" them, I've never believed nobody just because I had to. I've seem them doing it, they have been my "masters" somewhat 23 years ago.

Do you know what's the difference between you and me? The difference is only one of intent, as I already declared. I'm not interested in what is "right" or "wrong". I'm just interested on what works and what it doesn't and the only way to find out, seriously, is trying all the things by yourself, no matter what they are and what you think about them.

You instead are more interested on what you think you know, but the problem is that you know only what you care to know (and so only a part, and, in the end, just for this, nothing) and yet you think you are a master.

Here we go with the voluntary again...do yourself a favour and get a dictionary!

Now you are resorting to personal insults, I see. English is not my native language as I thought it was obvious.

LOL! You make me laugh. If you think he's so bad why did you bother to read the whole book? You did read it all, didn't you?

Would you please stop with this "LOL". Are you a child? Can we have an adult conversation without you here getting all owned by your emotions?

That's why many people are projecting because of him and they claim to have developed a greater control than before - after following Raduga's advice.

Can you please me quote me writing that the methods of Raduga (and btw, they are not HIS methods) don't work? I just said that they only pertain to using sleep.

Actually, this is incorrect. I can testify that you come out fully conscious when you apply this method. Partially conscious may occur but most of the time, you are fully conscious and focused on that reality.

So you tell me that you can decide beforehand to do a certain thing and you will do exactly the same thing after, not being carried aways by "impulse". Good to know, you must be the only one capable of doing so using sleep methods.

Pretending a thing is in a way without nothing else to compare it upon is not the smartest point of start.

Also, I've used this method to visit people and I've got some good results. Talk about having no control, eh?

Have you some problem of comprehension, pherhaps? What this have to do at all with control is beyond me, really.

Control is:

A) Capacity of deciding where to go BEFORE the experience begins.
B) Capacity of deciding what to do BEFORE the experience begins and carry up the plan after (and modify it "on the fly" depending on what happens, without "being carried" away and finding yourself doing a completely different thing if you so not decide to) as it can happen in "normal" life.
C) Capactiy of having full critical faculty as in "normal" life (this is tied to B). Full critical facutly means having full decision on what to do next if you so desire.

What you did is just a banal experience (in the sense that's it has no real practical value outside its own scope) everyone can have (and everybody having done these things have), what's so good about it? And more you either come here with your "proofs" to let me supposedly see how good you are, as if I would care. These things are good to impress your friends but do you seriously think they matter something?

To everybody his/her own ambitions, I guess.

Actually, what I meant by "same result" is that it is all the Phase, the same phenomenon. Not what you experience. what you experience is subjective and majorly dependent on your beliefs and where you mind is at. But I understand...you are looking for ways to discredit me and you feel that I've threatened your belief foundation. I understand...

It's not the same thing. There are many differences. Not all "planes" have ego as the starting point.

I don't feel threatened at all by what you say, I'm just sad that you are so sure of everything without either having tried to go beyond what you think is "correct" or it isn't.

I never said it was a phasing method...I said it is LIKE that. Read properly and stop making assumptions.

If you say that it's like a phasing method then it means that it has the same "structure", the same application on the way it works. Fact is that, on the contrary, it is completely different in structure and on how it works, they are not either minimally comparable. And then, please, stop to act smart, want you? I know exactly the way you "see" the method because you have only a certain structure to compare it to and so necessarily you try to put it in that perspective (and for this you don't understand how it works and you call some things unnecessary), and that structure is phasing.

You know nothing about how the technique works. You know absolutely nothing about it and you have either the presumption of wanting to tell what's necessary or unnecessary in the technique.

From where it comes all this pretending you know something about things you know nothing about? Have you ever tried researching on that method seriously to see if maybe some of the things are different than you supposed they were and then try them yourself if they were so or not? Have you ever tried to test if maybe what you thought "unnecessary" was maybe not so instead of pretending to know everything about it already because you think you obviously know "better"? I think there's neither need for you to answer that, isn't it?

But it's neither your fault. You ask me why I don't like authors as Raduga. You have the answer right here, right there.

Where did you see me say that it was created by Butler? And this is why you need to do some revision of what you claim to have read. By the way, why don't you enlighten everyone with you amazing Body of Light method? LOL!

I already have, read my post on Xanth.

Can you please stop now with personal insults and behave without being transported by emotions so that we can have a meaningful debate? Thank you.

[Selea]

A) Baloney! No-one can do this. Whoever says they can is simply lying.

If you say so...

You can think whatever you want but let me ask you this. What if you would be mistaken? Have you ever asked yourself this. Are you so sure you know everything about the issue to know already what's "true" and what's not therein?

B) Sometimes even in "normal life" you are not fully conscious or even fully aware of what is going on around you. In fact, the unconscious (or subconscious - hate this word as it is misleading) captures a lot more.

That's another thing, don't change topic. When you are not "fully" conscious in "normal" life is because you are not putting your full attention on what you are doing. That's a completely different thing.

If you use a sleep method you cannot decide a priori what it will happen after. Your body will "take control" and you will go on from there. Your impulse of the moment is what will guide you. You miss what it is called the "critical faculty", that's a part of the superconscious.

There's no decision on your part about this. In "normal" life you can either go in "automatic" but if you want you can take full control and behave with full critical faculty. Using sleep methods "outside" the body you cannot, you are always in "automatic" and there's no way outside of it.

There are people that "think" they have control even when "outside" using sleep methods but what they think it is "control" is just a motivation setted before. For example if you think intensely about doing this or that it is probable that your body will carry out the thing by itself (and this, in fact, it is a method to "control" the experience with a sleep method). This is what happens also by taking potent drugs that do the same things and how Shamans for example set their "voyages" before. However the difference is that this "intention" is only a sort of order carried upon, but it's not the same as having full control the moment things happens, and since you cannot know in anticipation what it will happen before how can you setup an intent that will carry depending on what happens?

Naturally this lack of "control" is, at the same time, one of the motives that either if you know how to exit voluntarily sleep methods are always good and necessary nonetheless. You can understand a lot about your "fears", "desires" etc. and how they change depending on what you do from using this "automatism".

C) I don't waste time building any thought body - when I separate, it may be already manifest or it manifests as I simply look to find it. If I don't have a body and I'm a floating point of consciousness, it doesn't even bother me - you don't really need one as it merely manifests because that is what you are used to during the waking state.

The "body" or "vehicle" is created for a motive. You don't know of what you are talking about.

And finally D (not E, Selea ) Yeah, a thought form that you can control with your mind...a do this for fun in lucid dreams. It is only a vehicle if you label it a vehicle. You can view it in second person and make it say "hi"

Again, it's another thing. The "vehicle" you create is NOT your "astral body". What would be the reason on putting the most effort on creating a "body" (since it requires months of work before the "body" is created fully) that it already exists? What you say makes no sense at all, neither on reasoning parameters. The method is not to be done in a single session, at all.

Why don't you stop pretending of being an expert on things you obviously know NOTHING about? If you would be a little more honest both with yourself and others we could have a better discussion.

[Selea]

My question was about whether you have an effective method for teaching this ability to project at will. Your reply did not answer that question.

?

I told you that there are methods, want to read my message again? I also told you that there is not a *specific* technique to do it. It is not a matter of doing a thing only. It requires training on various things.

If I ask, "Do you know the way to San Jose?" a good answer would be either yes or no. To reply, "point that way and start walking" is not helpful at that stage of the game. First things first. What if it takes two weeks to get there on foot and I only have 2 days?

A) I alredy replied "yes" to you.
B) If you ask me the better way how to go to "San Jose" I could tell you that it's better to take a bus than to go walking.

But.. since you mention it... just curious, which "Middle Pillar" method are you referring to? And if I start learning Raja Yoga how long will it take and how will I know when I have "learned" it?

The Middle Pillar is a method that treats chakras in a specific ways done appositedly for projection. When you will have mastered it you will be able to control at will the "light" formulated by using it.

Raja Yoga is, in little words, learning how to concentrate fully on an object without your attention never faltering. The amount of time it takes it depends on the amount of work you put upon it. Normally, with 2-4 hours a day? More or less two years (if you are using it only as a way to have a willing projection, as many occidental schools do, otherwise your entire life). Naturally it depends but in general good results starts to happen after this period. There are people that can do it either in less than six months but they are exceptions and anyway the "time" doesn't really matter if you are serious about it.

[Summerlander]

Where did I claim to know it all and of being a "master"...this is all coming from you, not me. I'm the first one to say that the Phase is elusive. As I've said to you before, you are deluding yourself with Chakras and energy work. Just because you feel the sensations (the mind has the power to create anything) does not mean that chakras and the energy system you speak of exist.

This is the difference between me and you. You claim that things exist without proof. I don't claim to know about the existence of anything. As for higher and lower realms...pfft...higher and lower are individual perceptions. For me it all happens in the same realm. Pleasantries and unpleasantries happen in the realm of thoughts during the Phase.

There is also a major misconception when it comes to Campbell being expressed here. His trilogy is his interpretation. It's a Big TOE - and the "T" stands for "THEORY"...that's right...theory. There is no evidence that you experience other realities whatsoever! The Many Worlds interpretation of in quantum theory is not yet proven. It could all be in people's heads still.

Even I don't claim that my visits to the people in Astral Viewers really did take place despite the fact that they were shocked at the apparent accuracies. Read things properly Selea and you will find that unlike you, I never claim to know anything for sure. Go back to my pervious posts and notice how they've been worded. You will find words like "apparently" for example. I never dismiss other venues as possible explanations - like coincidences or cryptomnesia, for example - so...where you claimed that I said I have proof...LOL...I don't know where you got that from.

I'm gonna be brief here now. I have come across many like you and I know exactly how you operate. Let me give you a piece of advice as this is what I do...question everything, my friend. Even what you think is the truth but have no real proof of it. Have you ever thought that what you have read might be wrong or that it is only someone else's opinion? Just because someone's got a book out there doesn't mean they are right.

I'll tell you what made me project: finding Robert Monroe's method in a book called Mind Games. It was only explained briefly and that is all it took. I was curious and after trying, it yielded results. I didn't need to read loads of books claiming that one must read the next issue and go on a course to be able to do it. I did not need this chakra and energy work business. You don't need it. That's the truth and I am living proof of it.

I have also tried to induce with and without the pre-nap/sleep. With the pre-sleep, it is easier because it primes you phisiologically for the induction. This is fact. Without the pre-sleep, it is harder but I have done it and I guarantee you that, despite the experience being different every time regardless of how you enter it, it is still the Phase state. Nothing else. It is like taking the same amount of the same hallucinogenic under the same conditions twice and both times the experience will differ. Why, because it all depends on where your mind is at. As I said before, and I feel like I am repeating myself here, the experience is subjective and open to an array of interpretations. You seem to refer to Campbell a lot but you also forget that he says that it is all "data". Data is not the same as information. Notice the analogy. If you see a light being singing melodiously to you, you may say that it's an angel - someone else may say it's just a figment of the imagination, or a demon in disguise, or an archetypal part of the personality that bears some symbolism.

You wanted to have a proper debate? Well, there you go...but you must be prepared to question what you believe in. Consider other angles.

[Selea]

Where did I claim to know it all and of being a "master"...this is all coming from you, not me. I'm the first one to say that the Phase is elusive. As I've said to you before, you are deluding yourself with Chakras and energy work. Just because you feel the sensations (the mind has the power to create anything) does not mean that chakras and the energy system you speak of exist.

You say you never insisted you are a "master" but you then insist a thing exist or not without either having researched on it or having tried it yourself.

I'm sorry but there's a great gap in the way you write about yourself and the way you behave.

If you act as if you did know everything already what good it does continuing insist that you know "nothing"? At last be sincere and say openly that you think you know everything already because this is how you act.

This is the difference between me and you. You claim that things exist without proof.

Of the series: "turning around the thing". I have always mentioned things that I know from personal experience. I have always insisted on researching on everything, also what you don't think it is "right" or what you think it is "bogus".

You instead insist that some things are "hocus-pocus" and they don't exist and yet when asked if you have researched on them you obviously say you don't care because they don't obviously exist for how you see it. Where's the "proof" you talk about here? I see only someone that thinks that he already knows that some things are right and some things are wrong, that some things exists while some are obviously just "illusion" just because you say so.

And an important thing is this: it doesn't matter if a thing is an illusion or not. The thing that matters is "can this illusion serve me for what I want to do"?

I don't claim to know about the existence of anything. As for higher and lower realms...pfft...higher and lower are individual perceptions. For me it all happens in the same realm. Pleasantries and unpleasantries happen in the realm of thoughts during the Phase.

Again, all of this naturally coming because you actually researched on what you are talking about and not just because you want to think they are this way, I see.

There is also a major misconception when it comes to Campbell being expressed here. His trilogy is his interpretation. It's a Big TOE - and the "T" stands for "THEORY"...that's right...theory. There is no evidence that you experience other realities whatsoever! The Many Worlds interpretation of in quantum theory is not yet proven. It could all be in people's heads still.

Campbell has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Put him aside. I'm not interested on debating others' concepts, true or not.

Read things properly Selea and you will find that unlike you, I never claim to know anything for sure. Go back to my pervious posts and notice how they've been worded. You will find words like "apparently" for example. I never dismiss other venues as possible explanations - like coincidences or cryptomnesia, for example - so...where you claimed that I said I have proof...LOL...I don't know where you got that from.

Are you serious? All you have written till now is just your interpretation a priori of what things are. You never cared to research on them. You just insist things you don't think exists are jut "hocus-pocus" and "garbage".

Really it seems to me that you have truly some problem on what you think is the way your behave from how you really behave. You should read your messages again because I don't see any openess in them about things that for you don't exists.

I'm gonna be brief here now. I have come across many like you and I know exactly how you operate. Let me give you a piece of advice as this is what I do...question everything, my friend. Even what you think is the truth but have no real proof of it. Have you ever thought that what you have read might be wrong or that it is only someone else's opinion? Just because someone's got a book out there doesn't mean they are right.

Again, are you serious? You are actually trying to tell me that now you are advicing me on to "test everything" when you are the first not doing it and pretending you know what's "hocus-pocus" and what's not? OMG, seriously, guy, you should check a little what you are saying because you are looking ridicolous, I'm not joking.

I already told you I always tried EVERYTHING by myself, differently from you. It's evident in all I written to you. I've insisted that maybe things are not exactly as you see they are, I've always gave you an option, a thing you have never done, and now you want to seriously turn all around and insist you are the one checking everything?

Well, if that's what you like to do, be my guest.

I did not need this chakra and energy work business. You don't need it. That's the truth and I am living proof of it.

And here it ends the fable again of "I check everything".

The fact that you think you "don't need it" it doesn't mean that truly they serves nothing. If one day you will start checking everything instead of pretending you are doing it then maybe you will find out that, as I explained, to have the control you need some of the things you call "hocus-pocus". You aren't interested in control right now but more on having experiences and for this you don't need these things. If one day you will begin to wonder "why I cannot do this or that" and start researching on it maybe you will understand that what you consider "hocus-pocus" or "unnedeed" can make a difference.

If then you discover otherwise good the same. At last you will have tried yourself instead of pretending you know that already.

I have also tried to induce with and without the pre-nap/sleep. With the pre-sleep, it is easier because it primes you phisiologically for the induction. This is fact. Without the pre-sleep, it is harder but I have done it and I guarantee you that, despite the experience being different every time regardless of how you enter it, it is still the Phase state.

You really don't get it, isn't it? Pre-sleep of after sleep the methods you use REQUIRE your body to go to sleep anyway. It doesn't change anything at all. What changes is only the way you employ sleep, not the fact that you need it as a "catapult" to have the experience.

Nothing else. It is like taking the same amount of the same hallucinogenic under the same conditions twice and both times the experience will differ.

A shame that shamans tell otherwise. Maria Sabina for example always did go in the same place when taking psylocibe mushrooms. Don't mistake what usual people can do to what *all" people can do.

Why, because it all depends on where your mind is at. As I said before, and I feel like I am repeating myself here, the experience is subjective and open to an array of interpretations. You seem to refer to Campbell a lot but you also forget that he says that it is all "data".

Campbell? I have referenced Campbell? Where?

Data is not the same as information. Notice the analogy. If you see a light being singing melodiously to you, you may say that it's an angel - someone else may say it's just a figment of the imagination, or a demon in disguise, or an archetypal part of the personality that bears some symbolism.

I already told you I'm not interested on what a thing "is". I don't care at all if an angel is a light for you and an "angel" for me. What matters, the only thing that matters, it is that doing certain things certain things happens. What they "really" are doesn't interest me in the slightest.

They interest only people that like to debate in theories on what it is so and what it isn't without never doing anything and losing themselves in things that have no importance at all.

What difference it makes if the sun is only a planet or Tatewarì? The only difference is that the one not caring can see both, the one caring can see none.

You wanted to have a proper debate? Well, there you go...but you must be prepared to question what you believe in. Consider other angles.

I believe nothing as I believe everything, depending on what part of the "trip" I am in.

[Pauli2]

Selea, I think you are being tricked, so listen...

Perhaps things come into a different light if I say that Summerlander
has been banned from another forum, where he was a Moderator.

My impression is that Summerlander got banned because he wrote
degrading and belittling posts to various users on so many occasions
the there was no other option for the remaining moderators in question.

So don't stretch yourself too far and get into trouble, because you
can probably guess who will cheer.

[Rudolph]

A) I alredy replied "yes" to you.
B) If you ask me the better way how to go to "San Jose" I could tell you that it's better to take a bus than to go walking.

A) No, you didn't. I explained that very clearly.
B) I did not ask you about a 'better" way. I asked if you if you had an "effective" method.

Selea, I think you underestimate the knowledge and ability of many of the contributors here. When you say "The Middle Pillar is a method that treats chakras in a specific ways done appositedly for projection. When you will have mastered it you will be able to control at will the "light" formulated by using it" -- it sounds like you are caught in your own little world of SeleaThink and you can't get out long enough to simply grasp what others around you are really saying and asking.

I asked you about your "method" of Middle Pillar because I am aware of about a half dozen significantly different variations on the central them which you lightly touched on.

I am trying to get very specific and you keep returning to generalities (which makes it look like you really don't know what you are talking about).

As I've said, if you really do have applied knowledge that arrives at a specific result, I am all ears.

So... Raja yoga can require six months or a lifetime... or something inbetween, heh. Not real helpful. I know one school in India where they teach that if you follow their system of Yoga for Four Lifetimes the devotee will attain Liberation from the Wheel.
 

No thanks.

[Summerlander]

Selea,

You have failed Rudolph too.

As for Pauli2, well...there is always two sides of the story and in his statement you will find that he doesn't even know what the altercation in Viewers was about. He is also sore because I told him on several occasions to stop believing everything he reads.

Your last post has just shown me that you are clearly not interested in having an intellectual debate, but rather, more focused on contradicting me at all costs. You need to realise that if you continue like that, people will lose interest in anything you have to say.

By the way, go on Viewers and you will find two threads called "Where's Summerlander gone" and "I miss Summerlander", I have my sources and evidently there are people who think I was wronged...go there...check!

And quit saying "are you serious" - it's getting tedious now. No, I'm not serious...I'm doubly serious. I have no interest in going down your road because I don't need it. I can do things in the Phase state by simply believing I can or via expectation. That is all one needs, really. As for going to the same places...you completely missed the point. The woman you use as reference can go to the same places as anyone can...as I said before...it also depends on where your mind is at. You have a thing for aliens then you are likely to see/visit alien worlds. You have a thing about deities then you are likely to experience this. If you have stray thoughts in the Phase, then you are likely to land in random places. If you have focused intent, then you will get where you want to be (particularly when it comes to visits). It is all mind, selea. If the belief in energy systems that you believe in helps you, then by all means use it - perhaps that is what you got used to - but don't start saying to others that they are incapable of this and that if they don't do as you do because that is completely inaccurate.

Here's a few sayings, which funnily enough are found in the Big TOE, and may serve as a basis for deeper thought:

"Whatever one believes to be true either is true or becomes true in one's mind."
- John C. Lilly

"When we argue for our limitations, we get to keep them."
- Peter McWilliams

"If you don't change your beliefs, your life will be like this forever. Is that good news?"
- Dr. Robert Anthony

[Pauli2]

As for Pauli2, well ... he doesn't even know what the altercation in Viewers was about.

From the AstralViewers forum:

"I just banned Summerlander guys, I'm sorry but he has just become too much. If anyone still thinks he didn't deserve it I remind you that that there and more then four good, active members who have left because of his attitude. I can't keep him around if all he does it fight with everyone. Maybe he can eventually come back but for now he can't."


Wow...

All he does is fight with everyone...

[Xanth]

From the AstralViewers forum:

"I just banned Summerlander guys, I'm sorry but he has just become too much. If anyone still thinks he didn't deserve it I remind you that that there and more then four good, active members who have left because of his attitude. I can't keep him around if all he does it fight with everyone. Maybe he can eventually come back but for now he can't."


Wow...

All he does is fight with everyone...

And that doesn't help, Pauli.  What do you think you're doing by posting that here?
Let's keep the Astral Viewers stuff on Astral Viewers and not bring it up over here please.
As far as I'm concerned he's got a clean slate over here.

EDIT:  I'd like to mention that this goes for everyone.  Please don't bring up issues or problems from another forum here, especially not as a means of discrediting or supporting your case.  Thank you. 

****************************************

With that said, we have a discussion going on here, which I would like to see become a bit more civil... please, let's discuss IDEAS not PEOPLE.

Remember that whatever is said, regardless of HOW it's said, is only that person's opinion... and further to that, we seem to have people here who seem to be emotionally distraught at the idea that "THEY MIGHT BE WRONG!"  UH OH!

I'll make this one passionate plea... if you feel that you've never been wrong in your life, or if you have issues with "being wrong", I highly suggest you delete your account now because fact of the matter is nobody can possibly be "CORRECT" in a discussion of this nature.

So please, let's tone this back a bit and not get personal.  Discuss IDEAS not PEOPLE.

[Psan]

From the AstralViewers forum:

"I just banned Summerlander guys, I'm sorry but he has just become too much. If anyone still thinks he didn't deserve it I remind you that that there and more then four good, active members who have left because of his attitude. I can't keep him around if all he does it fight with everyone. Maybe he can eventually come back but for now he can't."


Wow...

All he does is fight with everyone...

I tend you avoid answering him, after reading a few of his posts here. He is generally too defensive of his opinions and it seems he is more interested in showing how smart and knowledgeable he is compared to others. His energies are sometime unbearable. Too brute. Almost every thread he posts into turns negative.

This forum is too precious to leave just because of one person. I request you all to show compassion towards such people and forgive them. Please stay here and share your knowledge, however diverse and non-traditional or crazy it may sound, its all good if it makes you a better person.

Peace

[Psan]

On topic:

The concept of (mental) 'energy' was invented so that you could work easily within your mental realm. Its more of a technical term than a thing, just like a 'thought', its not a thing but a process in your mind, but is  very 'real' in a sense. You can study the energy and you will come to a conclusion that its perception can be very real once you develop sensitivity towards it.

Unfortunately, the word energy clashes directly with the physical energy (=that which does physical work), and causes a conflict of beliefs. In physics also it is a concept. A very useful and convenient one. To avoid the conflict I generally use the term Prana. Again some people might think that its old-fashioned or new-agey thing. Its the only option available.

It's not useful to ask whether its real or not (you will run into a debate at most instead of truth), more useful question is - how can I benefit from it ?

Well, I don't guarantee that you will. But like many other things in the world of psyche, you must try it to know it. Experience is everything here. No amount of book reading will make you wise. So go ahead and act on his suggestion (IAC fellow) and see what happens.

Don't forget to update us all. All the best

[Summerlander]

I agree with that statement in that it is more of a process in your mind rather than a thing and if it works for some, then good. I personally feel that I am doing great without it. Now that I agree with you, am I forgiven?

ps. I really do agree with the statement, by the way!

[Xanth]

I tend you avoid answering him, after reading a few of his posts here. He is generally too defensive of his opinions and it seems he is more interested in showing how smart and knowledgeable he is compared to others. His energies are sometime unbearable. Too brute. Almost every thread he posts into turns negative.

This forum is too precious to leave just because of one person. I request you all to show compassion towards such people and forgive them. Please stay here and share your knowledge, however diverse and non-traditional or crazy it may sound, its all good if it makes you a better person.

Peace

And to that end, I also highly advise that if you're reading a post and it seems to "disagree" with you... please do make use of the "Report to Moderator" functionality, and we'll try to deal with it best we can. 

And definitely as Psan has suggested, if certain people "get your goat", please try your best to not interact with them.  I realize that sometimes it's hard to do that, but it's in the best interest of all involved. 

And one last thing... it's okay to disagree with people regarding a particular subject or idea, BUT try to keep your disagreement in a positive manner.

[Oversoul123]

Summerlander, I don't know what part of your text was directed at me, exactly, but if you're alluding that I take any of Campbell's theories as fact then you must be hallucinating. I simply stated some of his 'mind-boggling' claims.  First of all, I don't believe in anything.  All I know is that I am self-aware, that's it, capice?.  Regarding Campbell, I like the pragmatic, data-testing, approach that he brings in respect to phasing. That is all. The rest, I'll have to experience it myself.

Here's an interesting study; A team of researchers led by the Massachusetts General Hospital found that participating in an 8-week mindfulness meditation program appeared to make measureable changes in the grey-matter density in the hippocampus of the brain (known to be important for learning and memory), and in structures associated with self-awareness, compassion and introspection. Decreased grey-matter density in the amygdala (known to play an important role in anxiety and stress) was also reported.

Source:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110121144007.htm

Now, if you don't consider the possibility that meditation can 're-engineer' the brain into a state in which, somehow, it might be possible to phase at will, then...  I don't know what to tell you. Maybe heed your own advice? The human brain is still, for the most part, unknown; so we don't know anything for sure.  Note, I'm not claiming that this is the reason why Mr. Campbell can phase at will; I'm just throwing it out there.  Food for thought...

[Xanth]

Tom is very capable because of the time and effort he's put into studying altered states of consciousness over his many years since working with Monroe in his laboratories.  I have no doubt in my mind that he does what he claims he does. 

As for your previous post, Oversoul, it was well said. 

Don't "believe" anything anyone ever says to you.  As Tom would put it, simply keep an open mind about it, but don't judge it "correct" or "incorrect" until you have personal experience to back it up.  And in the end, you can only prove things to yourself... not to anyone else.

[Summerlander]

Summerlander, I don't know what part of your text was directed at me, exactly, but if you're alluding that I take any of Campbell's theories as fact then you must be hallucinating. I simply stated some of his 'mind-boggling' claims.  First of all, I don't believe in anything.  All I know is that I am self-aware, that's it, capice?.  Regarding Campbell, I like the pragmatic, data-testing, approach that he brings in respect to phasing. That is all. The rest, I'll have to experience it myself.

Here's an interesting study; A team of researchers led by the Massachusetts General Hospital found that participating in an 8-week mindfulness meditation program appeared to make measureable changes in the grey-matter density in the hippocampus of the brain (known to be important for learning and memory), and in structures associated with self-awareness, compassion and introspection. Decreased grey-matter density in the amygdala (known to play an important role in anxiety and stress) was also reported.

Source:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110121144007.htm

Now, if you don't consider the possibility that meditation can 're-engineer' the brain into a state in which, somehow, it might be possible to phase at will, then...  I don't know what to tell you. Maybe heed your own advice? The human brain is still, for the most part, unknown; so we don't know anything for sure.  Note, I'm not claiming that this is the reason why Mr. Campbell can phase at will; I'm just throwing it out there.  Food for thought...

That is very interesting. Actually, this agrees with what I have said in previous posts in other threads here. The brain is a tool which is slowly improved by consciousness. Check my guide that has been made stick and you will find something along these lines too. I personally think, from experience that the Phase can turn telepathic and precognitive. On a larger evolutionary scale, the brain is being improved to best express the potentiality of consciousness.

I believe that people can project at will, but this projecting at will thing requires a little effort (that's how I do it - I once projected in less than two minutes from employing my method and I don't call that "projecting at will"). People can't just think "I want out now" and suddenly they have entered the Phase in the blink of an eye. Selea said he knows people that project while they are walking. I disagree with this. It may be possible in the distant future, but not yet, in my mind. Unless, of course, there are some peculiar brains out there that enable an individual to Phase at will. Otherwise, they have really familiarised themselves with the whole process and they have become exceptionally adroit at it. Anyway, and this is more to Selea, you don't necessarily need the body of Light thing to achieve this.

I'm not saying it's impossible but I find it dubious. I am also wary when it comes to believing what is published by these authors and what they claim (which could be gimmicks to attract wider audiences). a lot of what Campbell says resonates with me. A lot of Kepple's ideas also ring a bell and resonate with my experiences. But we must be careful about what we find out there. Many people also believe carrots preserve your vision and you never have to wear glasses...this is, of course, a myth.

Thanks for sharing that, by the way. It was really good and seems to support that which I have been thinking for some time now. Also, I was not referring to you personally with my comments and I apologise if it came across to you that way.

[Lightning]

Don't "believe" anything anyone ever says to you.  As Tom would put it, simply keep an open mind about it, but don't judge it "correct" or "incorrect" until you have personal experience to back it up.

Good advice, especially when dealing with the metaphysical realm.

[Oversoul123]

Xanth, I agree 100%.

Summerlander, fair enough, we probably had some misunderstings, that's all.  Oh, and Tom didn't make any claims, they are his theories, my bad; and I agree, we should analyze our own experiences ourselves, and reach our own conclusions pragmatically.  So no worries, it's all good.