Etheric Projection and Kundalini symptoms?

[Volgerle]

The topic of "etheric (body)" projections came up in another thread here, but I would like to ask other people here if they ever experienced sth similar to what I did and what I now suspect it could have been an etheric body OBE.

For text length reasons it is better to put it into a fresh thread. I copy it here from another forum (yeah, I'm lazy) where I have this OBE journal. It was my first conscious projection (after an NDE-like experience and possible projections as a child which I remember only vaguely) in November 2009.

Regarding the energetic aspect: The funny thing really is that for a while I thought these were those famous 'vibrations' I read about. After this experience, months before I had the first 'real' vibrations, I thought that people who wrote in forums or books that vibrations are 'sth pleasant and enjoyable' were stark raving mad . No, this wasn't pleasant at all!

It should be noted that I wrote this down 1,5 years later with a little more practical (and theoretical) knowledge about AP and vibrations, in April 2011 (this includes the comments below it). E.g. when this happened in 2009 I did not know yet anything about Kundalini or its symptoms.

Again, sorry for the length but as this was my very first intended projection I then took great pains to describe it as accurately as possible, also since it was so remarkable, even in hindsight. Although in the meantime I had multitudes of APs, telepathic & clairvoyant/precognitive dreams, some validations from dreams and APs and even some waking-state apparitions or manifestations, this 'historic' one still makes me stand in awe whenever I reminisce about it.
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(copied from here: http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?11852-Volgerle-s-Lucidiary&p=96617#post96617)
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    21/Nov/2009
    First Exit (Brutal Spine-Waves, Kundalini?)

    Mid-November, two months on, what had happened in the meantime? Well, not much. But I read a book.

    Only a week after the surgery, I browsed Amazon and probably by some (divine? / higher self?) intuition instead of searching for books on NDE, which would only have been understandable and which I also did at later points in time, I typed 'out-of-body' into the search field. (Btw, Astral Projection was not a term I knew a lot about then, I heard it but did not even relate it to OBE, but rather to sth like dreams, a kind of clairvoyance or even meditation (all of which is not even entirely wrong, of course).)
    Almost naturally, Buhlman's book "Adventures Beyond The Body" (in German it is even "Out Of Body") came first. I bought it and read it. I was absolutely astounded how "simple" it seemed to be and that you could really "walk" through your living room as a non-physical being, and all that not just when you were "near death".

    I did the induction exercises (combined visualisation/tactile practice and affirmation). Only after a few days of finishing the book and starting the practice, very early I had those talked about "energy sensations" during the night: I heard strange sounds, remember a lifted stiff arm (I think Buhlman also mentions it in a list of possible 'events') and had inner 'energetic' jumps and movements - all while in bed sleeping or in hypnagogia or when waking up from it. I knew now I was in for more.

    This lucadventure might be categorised as a very classic RTZ-OBE. However, and that makes it interesting, it is 'framed' by a lucid dream conversion and a postlude False Awakening (semi-lucid) dream. So we have 3 'classics' in one pack. (After an NDE-type experience 2 months prior to this, I now already had received a huge bag of non-physical experience ... not so bad for a first-timer, huh? )

    1) Dream Conversion

    I dream that I am flying a familiar street of my old hometown uphill, approx. 3 metres above the ground, which leads to the street of my parent's home. In physical life, I have went and cycled (as child and schoolboy) and later driven it up with my car countless times.
    However, suddenly one thing really strikes me then. Not the fact that I am flying. It is rather the fact of HOW I am flying. I am making swimming movements (breaststroke). I notice that this is so utterly stupid and funny alike. Why am I SWIMMING through the air instead of 'normally' flying? At this very instant, this observation literally TRIGGERS my exit sensations, and something starts that I will never in my life forget.

    2) Out-Of-Body exit / RTZ-projection

    The view changes drastically. I am lucid. And I see the ceiling of my bedroom. Strange thing is that the room appears to be with the light on. I see everything clearly. I am lying on the back (unusual for me) and I also see one arm lifted (again!). It is stiff, I cannot move it, it is fixed up in the air. I also don't really feel it, it is like an alien part or an artificial limb attached to my (otherwise also paralysed but still 'felt') body. But I also don't want to change anything about it.. I want out and I know it has started now. "It" is, besides my new view, the 'energy sensations' I feel.

    However they are NOT the famous 'vibrations' at all. I did not know these vibrations then. Only later I did. Today, I know them well, of course, and I can say that this was VERY VERY different! Those WERE NO VIBRATIONS at all!

    Sorry if this bores you now a bit, but I need to try to give a description as detailed as possibly, becausee I have a suspicion now of what it could have been, which I could not have known either then or during the following days and events, due to a lack of knowledge about these matters. I will enlarge upon my question later in the Comments section, but now first my attempt to render a detailed description of what I felt and then mistook as 'common vibrations' (what a joke from today's POV). I have, so far for me, not read ANY account on exit sensations here or elsewhere that has stated anything similar to this, which makes my inquiry even more urgent now as it was then:

    As said, those 'energy sensations' were nothing like vibrations. Those were BALL-LIKE WAVES along the SPINE. Heavy, violent and almost disruptive as it seemed. Not from head to toe but only through my torso (neck to lower intestines / genital area). I cannot conclusively remember anymore if they went up-down (from neck area on downwards) or vice versa. It could have gone either way or even with a changing of directions.
    I did NOT feel any pain. Just movement. Possibly I heard roaring, crackling, sizzling, rustling sounds which more or less correlated with the intensity of the wave-balls' movements. One wave going through my body lasted possibly 1 - 1.5 seconds. The 'low-tide' intervals probably 1 to 2 seconds on average. Sometimes the intensities varied. I tried to give it a graphic expression here, you see it is not absolutely regular, intervals for the pauses (-) as well as for down- or upward moving wave 'blobs' (O, o, 0) vary:

    --O--O---o----O---0--o---O--O--o--> (time direction)

    There are two words I would like to use to describe the whole movement: Orgasmic/Ejaculative and Peristaltic. But all that without the respective body feelings (unfortunately in the first case ).
    So it was as if my torso would have been a great GIANT PENIS at the very moment of ejaculation or a part of the digestive system while it's transporting and processing its content in peristaltic muscle movements.
    Another good way to compare it to would be strong electric jolts, but again and - in this case fortunately - without any feelings, just the "movement".

    Again just to give an impression on what is meant by 'peristaltic' (mostly used in connection with pumps or the human digestive system), consider it like this, but only much much faster (1 wave-interval per 1-2 second or so):



    This video shows it even better (still, again: much too slow, though):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cEwVdA8_qs

    So I hope you get the idea of what I went through - or better: what went through me - then.

    And I was and still am sure it was 'not physical' at all. (How could it be ??! This is not the nervous system. I also should have felt pain then, I should have been bursting into parts! Any scoffers should explain it to me or better try experience this for themselves, and then they will admit: "this stuff is f***** real!")

    What is even more strange, and it makes me marvel about myself (and I am not a warrior-type of guy!): I stayed completely calm. I let it happen. Maybe there was a kind of attitude involved telling me sth like "hey, you begged for it, so here we go, now don't complain and grit your teeth and get to it!". Maybe it was still due to my hypnagogic / trance-like state. But why did I not get out of it?
    And that is not the entire story. I also endured it (knowing that it would ease off soon) because it was somehow FAMILIAR. It is a "I've-been-there-before"-feeling. But why and how? Discussion see below.

    After it waned (or even when it was gone completely, not sure anymore) I started to lift. Possibly the subconscious reason for my lifted arm then was that I wanted to use it as a kind of 'launch ramp' all the time. That's another hint to a strange familiarity .. as said, this was my first conscious and deliberate projection, I had not done this before.

    So I went out and the first thing to note is: The room was dark again as I slowly soared to my room's ceiling. I looked ahead then for the short time I looked at the wall and ahead again, the ceiling (immersed in darkness now again) before me.

    It should be noted, I also had a strange voice when talking to myself shortly (or "thinking aloud"), it was somehow vibrating, sounding high and modulated (not the human-like female voice, that's a different story again). I don't remember anymore what I said to myself then, possiby some "oh"s or "ah"s only. That, however, again, was not orgasmic either.

    Now the next funny thing: I stopped at the ceiling. And I did not know what to do. Then the idea to just "turn around". Turning around of what? Of me. But what is me? I have no idea if I had a "body" then because I had not paid attention to it/myself. I was just a cloud or point of consciousness during the whole exit.

    Then I just "turned around" (no, it seemed I did not have the purported 360 degrees vision, I really shifted somehow). Looking down where me in the bed should have been I first only saw darkness. Then I concentrated (thinking also about BUhlman's short commands such as 'clarity now' or 'vision now'). After a while I could see a figure lying there on the side (not on the back). After a while I also could make out the face clearly. It was me. I looked pale in the darkness, almost a bit like a moon face.

    But you know what striked me most about this, even today when I remember it (and which is possibly also responsible for the moon face appearance)? The kind of picture that really clings to my memory now that first comes to my mind when I remember this event, making this an almost iconic representation of this whole lucidventure:
    The very weirdness of SEEING YOUR OWN FACE WITH CLOSED EYELIDS. I looked so 'strange' (in a double sense) that I even did not clearly recognise myself for a second because of this 'alienating' view. When do we see ourselves with closed eyelids? Logically, we don't in mirrors. On photo snapshots when we were blinded by flashlights or on surprise snapshots possibly. But "live" at the same instant? This picture sticks with me, probably for the rest of this life! I will never forget the picture of that guy that is me down there in the bed 'asleep' with closed eyelids. Even today, I count this experience among the top-ten of strange sensations and experiences of my adventures.

    After I had 'identified' myself without the slightest doubt, which was otherwise not so difficult since all was 'realistic' and there were no dream imagery or reality fluctuations involved, I decided (wisely and as recommended for newbies) to cut it short and 'go back' immediately. I just went down, which was then much faster than going up.
    However, before I re-integrated, another remarkable observation. First, for a split-second I saw my face 'close-up'. Secondly, I heard my breathing (exhale) - but different, as if still somehow from the outside.

    3) False Awakening

    I got up and went into the bathroom. I passed some time there, also looking at myself into the mirror. All looked normal. I reflected on the things passed now. I was happy at my success of 'astral projecting'. Then, only after quite a while, I thought to myself 'hey, why not go to my parent's bedroom now, and wake them and tell them what happened?'. Then I realised what a strange idea this was. (Possibly it was caused by the dream I had before about flying to my parent's home). Why did I say that? I was an adult now and I had not live with my parents in their home for many many years now. Then I realised that I was still dreaming and woke up.

    Comments / Afterthoughts:

    First of all, sorry, I will keep further posts on lucidventures much much shorter. I just felt the need to enlarge upon this, since it was my first 'projection', and due to all those circumstances and detailed memory. Therefore I restrict this section (although much more would be to say for me here) only to the issues of FAMILIARITY and KUNDALINI.

    The issue of FAMILIARITY with those waves amazes me even today. Perhaps, in our super/sub-conscious memories and as reincarnating beings, we all "know" this already since it is similar to what happens when we die. Or perhaps I had/did this as a child in this life and just don't remember. Or I was a keen projector in a previous life. Or Perhaps I really only thought that THIS were the famous vibrations I read about (what a joke!). But today I know there were NO VIBRATIONS. Those were different. I had only one further experience like this a few days later. After the again-violent exit it failed due to exit blindness and fear issues.
    Fear issues also kept me from going on then. I read more books on the topic. Monroe's first book actually increased my fears, it was so different from Buhlman's optimitic take on the issue. Then I read Bruce's Astraldynamics and while I did so, I sometimes had the feeling that I was falling out of my body in waking state! That was enough for me! I actually decided to have a break of a few months, not trying anything. I needed a rest (who should blame me after all that, I had my proper dosage, after all)? So I slammed the door shut again at the end of the year and I did not have any experiences (Sometimes I even affirmed "I stay inside my body" before sleeping!).

    Maybe someone more experienced in this matter can answer this. Recently I came to suspect that it might actually have been a KUNDALINI-like experience (note the added "-like", please!). Here, people also report on spine-related 'snake'-like heavy energy sensations. If you look at the video I linked, you see that 'peristalctic' movement is indeed pretty 'snaky' if seen from a specific angle. But they also tell of body cramps and even danger of life. I did not feel this way although the waves also had a 'crampy' aspect to them. Of course, since mainly the torso was affected, it is highly likely for me that the energy was using a 'channel' that leads up/down the physical spine through which the 'awakened' energy was streaming in brutal thrusts of different intensity.

I could so far not really bother to dig deeper into the topic of Kundalini. If someone can tell me it is NOT Kundalini-related, I am fine. I wasn't keen on any Kundalini-experience so far. And if it was Kundalini, well, so be it, but I am even less keen to live through this again for understandable reasons. Two times is enough and I am happy in the end that later (according to logfile starting Feb 2010) I discovered that 'vibrations' are something very very different from that!

[Pauli2]

I have, so far for me, not read ANY account on exit sensations here or elsewhere that has stated anything similar to this, which makes my inquiry even more urgent now as it was then:

   As said, those 'energy sensations' were nothing like vibrations. Those were BALL-LIKE WAVES along the SPINE. Heavy, violent and almost disruptive as it seemed.

I'm making guesses now.

I think it's possible that you've had an OBE or something similar, at the same
time you've had a kundalini experience or perhaps pre-kundalin, as there is
something which is similar to kundalini but not at intense.

I've read that there are at least 5 different types of kundalini raise effects.
One feels "like an ant crawling", another feels "like a monkey jumping", and
there is of course the snake-like experience.

I've had something similar, but milder, and so far I've not been able to consciously
make any OBE, only from SP and very short (about 2 seconds). So the kundalini
experience may not be completely related to OBE even if there probably is some
kind of connection.

Similar for me, I didn't know much of kundalini, but the months before my experience,
which can be read here, I read a lot about the kundalini phenomena by some odd
coincidence.

Also when my kundalini experience started at work, I didn't became afraid, strangely
enough. I should have I guessed, but I was rather calm, perhaps mildly excited.

As you can see in the link above, my kundalini experience was ice cold and went
from base of spine to top of head, with a small breakage between the upper part
of my neck and my forehead.

To this date I can still get cold areas in my upper body, mostly in the left side of my
head or neck.

I don't know if there are any special effects to date, more than opening me up to more
possibilities related to non-physical whereabouts.

I have tons of vibrations when I do meditation session, but still no OBE, and my "kundalini oil"
experience was completely without vibrations, it was just smooth, slow and silent.

[todd421757]

I also see one arm lifted (again!). It is stiff, I cannot move it, it is fixed up in the air. I also don't really feel it, it is like an alien part or an artificial limb attached to my (otherwise also paralyzed but still 'felt') body. But I also don't want to change anything about it.. I want out and I know it has started now.
 
As said, those 'energy sensations' were nothing like vibrations. Those were BALL-LIKE WAVES along the SPINE.

I did NOT feel any pain. Just movement. Possibly I heard roaring, crackling, sizzling, rustling sounds which more or less correlated with the intensity of the wave-balls' movements.

There are two words I would like to use to describe the whole movement: Orgasmic/Ejaculative and Peristaltic.

In this case fortunately - without any feelings, just the "movement".

After it waned (or even when it was gone completely, not sure anymore) I started to lift.

So I went out and the first thing to note is: The room was dark again as I slowly soared to my room's ceiling. I looked ahead then for the short time I looked at the wall and ahead again, the ceiling (immersed in darkness now again) before me.

Any scoffers should explain it to me or better try experience this for themselves, and then they will admit: "this stuff is f***** real!")

Volgerle,

Thanks for sharing your experience  You had an impressive 1st obe.

Based upon my experiences, I will give you my opinion on what happened. I only have etheric projections in all my 12 years of projecting. I never astral project or phase. Etheric projections are what I love to do. They are very intense projections that would be too intense for most people.

You definitely had an etheric projection. I am for sure of this. But, you had an etheric projection without having the proper vibrations. It is not recommended or desirable to have an etheric projection without the vibrations.

The purpose of the vibrations is to help loosen the attachments the etheric body to the physical body to make the separation process easier and more pleasant. Without the vibrations being present, you have a different type of consciously or unconsciously forced etheric projection. This is not as pleasant.

Without vibrations, the only way to have an etheric projection is to slowly separate a part of your body. In your case, it was the arm. After this happens, you will feel your etheric body start to have a pulsing wave action. Sometimes I have the sensation of pulsing wavelike movement of the etheric body in the exact same fashion as you. These ball-like waves were your etheric body moving INSIDE your physical body. With vibrations, you normally don't feel this happening as intensely. But, when you don't get vibrations, you can feel this movement happen in a more intense fashion.

After you got this movement going for a little while, your etheric body finally was loosened from the attachment to the physical body. At this moment, you felt your etheric body lift towards the ceiling. The darkness you saw is very common with etheric projections.

Etheric projections are as real as it gets. With vibrations, the separation of the etheric body is easier and less intense.

[Stookie_]

Thanks for sharing that Volgerle, it was very detailed and interesting to read. I don't really have anything to say though... I've never had a kundalini experience.

However, I can completely relate to having an experience I've never had before and it seem VERY VERY VERY familiar, as though it's something from way back in my past that I know never happened.

[catmeow]

Yup, thanks for sharing Volgerle, always a pleasure to read your experiences.

[Volgerle]

@all:

Thanks for your answers. I will update here what Robert Bruce answered about this experience. The same day when I posted this here I also put a question as to this in the "Ask Robert" section. However, sometimes it takes him weeks or even months to answer a question. I had wanted to do this long before, but forgotten or postponed it every time. It's time I get the conundrum of this strange energetic experience(s) on the table again.

@Pauli

Interesting read with your 'ice slug' moving so slowly. Do you still have your cold-slug/oil experiences today, or just the occasional cold spots? I don't have anything moving slowly for hours, but I can well relate to cold energetic spots (or sometimes 'wind chills' that do definitely not come from 'real' wind), also on the third eye.

I also have other 'energetic' experiences, which I can tell about here at a later date, they also have to do with healing abilities (I suppose), especially with my hands which are heavily "activated" (by s.o. or at least by s.o. encouraging me to do it before).

@todd

Thanks, very interesting. And all of your theory really fits my experience neatly. So the idea of an 'etheric projection' really gains more and more underpinning now.

The 'stiff arm' was a partial etheric body loosening? So did I get this part out with my consciousness "in" it? This makes indeed a lot of sense as then (only in the 'early' days) I was really 'automatically' lifting my arm in order to use it as a 'ramp' from where to start from. I cannot express it better since this is really what I did subconsciously (in trance!). How does it work with the consciousness projected?

Also, as you say, the energetic action being 'inside' the body is very correct for me. I experienced (later) vibrations as somehow being more 'on the skin' or even coming from my surroundings, or both, as a kind of synchronisation process. And much more pleasant of course. Those "kundalini" waves were felt as coming from or better: happening deeply inside of my body (spine, torso).

Also, could this kind of high frequency modulated 'own' voice have to do with this etheric body, too? It seemed almost to be a kind of 'mechanical' thing to me, not really feeling 'telepathic' or 'thought'. It is hard to express though.

I also had a strange voice when talking to myself shortly (or "thinking aloud"), it was somehow vibrating, sounding high and modulated (not the human-like female voice, that's a different story again). I don't remember anymore what I said to myself then, possiby some "oh"s or "ah"s only.

Regarding vision: When I was in trance experiencing the heavy waves, I was lying on the back and looking up at the ceiling (before exit) and could see the room alight. I assume that this was my astral body or astral 'consciousness / sight'.
It could not have been my physical body, as the room was dark (in the physical) and also since I am a side-sleeper, which I also later saw, as I spotted myself lying on the side, but with the face showing more upwards to be perfectly visible.
It also could not have been the etheric body either then because as you say it was then dark again (after the exit over my arm-'ramp' was managed) in my room. So I guess all first three bodies were involved somehow.

Moreover, in the astral body I could see the 'stiff' arm in the 'lightened' room, but I also described it as 'stiff' because it was also completely numb then, it was 'outside' of my 'felt' region. I could not feel it at all although I knew it was 'raised' for the ramp as I saw it then. So I hypothesise now: The arm was actually an etheric part externalised and to be used as a ramp for my consciousness to exit (in the etheric vehicle) a few meters (as one couldn't go further) into the RTZ?

Wow, fascinating!!!

@stookie

Yes, this memory or knowledge is so strange somehow. It is even more like a normal 'deja-vu'-feeling. It is a really baffling assuredness of sth 'known and handled before'. "Been there, done that".  
Btw, the same applies to the lifted arm, described above. I did this just 'automatically', it was no planned course of action or strategy. It just was 'natural' to do so then, as if I had done it before. It was 'knowledge' retrieved and willfully applied in trance state, knowledge of what to do in this specific (etheric body projection) situation with my given circumstances (newbie, first conscious projection, what and how to do it) in this life at least.

@catmeow

Thanks, yes, mostly it is also a pleasure for me having experienced them, except for this very brutal one . Although I need to say that I am of course happy now having 'survived' it and being sure that I won't go through this again to have experienced it after all.

Today, I assume it was even a necessary (although a bit too abrupt) parf of my energy body awakening. I had started it with some jumping sensations in the nights before. It is like when you ignite a car engine and the first times you do this it just keeps spluttering and shutting off again. On that night, the 'ignition' finally worked, but it was a heavy, sudden kickstart with the motor running, although at high speed it kept moving in first gear = 1st body = etheric body only. (The more I think of it the more I like this analogy ).

[Pauli2]

@Pauli

Interesting read with your 'ice slug' moving so slowly. Do you still have your
cold-slug/oil experiences today, or just the occasional cold spots?

Very seldom I have the ice slug feeling today, and if I get it, it seldom last
more than half an hour, and never have the distinctness it had in the beginning.
The cold spots (physically experienced) are more common, sometimes they turn
into warm areas.

I think todd's post may be closer to what you may have experienced
than my ice slugs, which probably are something different from your
original experience.

[todd421757]

1) The 'stiff arm' was a partial etheric body loosening?

2) So did I get this part out with my consciousness "in" it? This makes indeed a lot of sense as then (only in the 'early' days) I was really 'automatically' lifting my arm in order to use it as a 'ramp' from where to start from. I cannot express it better since this is really what I did subconsciously (in trance!). How does it work with the consciousness projected?

3) Also, could this kind of high frequency modulated 'own' voice have to do with this etheric body, too?

4) When I was in trance experiencing the heavy waves, I was lying on the back and looking up at the ceiling (before exit) and could see the room alight. I assume that this was my astral body or astral 'consciousness / sight'. So I guess all first three bodies were involved somehow.

5) So I hypothesise now: The arm was actually an etheric part externalised and to be used as a ramp for my consciousness to exit (in the etheric vehicle) a few meters (as one couldn't go further) into the RTZ?

1) Yes, the stiff arm was a partial etheric body projection. I have also had many partial projections with only my feet lifting out, and sometimes my head is the only thing that lifts out.

2) Yes, you got this part out with consciousness in it. Etheric consciousness is energy consciousness which is present in all parts of the etheric body. Etheric consciousness is different than physical consciousness in an etheric body projection. There are less earthly desires and emotions involved in etheric consciousness. There are no dreamlike visions in pure etheric projections. The dream-like visions people may report in some etheric projections is due to the dual awareness force of the silver cord. Keeping a short distance to the physical body prevents some of these dream-like visions. This is why you had no reality fluctuations since you remained close to your physical body. The etheric body can only travel a short distance. But, even though it is a short distance, it more alive and real than any other non-physical experience, since you are truly operating in another body.

3) The sounds you heard was the modulating sound sensation that occurs when you transition from the physical plane to the etheric plane. It is like a sound vibration. It is usually is a modulating pitch change that you hear.

4) Etheric sight goes from being able to see the room lit up during partial separations to blackness which occurs immediately after full separation. Then sight may come back later during the projection. Yes, all first three bodies were involved.

5) Your hypothesis is correct based upon my experiences

[Volgerle]

Robert answered this: "The practice of OBE will cause stimulation to the kundalini and, depending on your energetic makeup, this can cause kundalini symptoms, and even spontaneous kundalini activation."

http://www.astraldynamics.com.au/showthread.php?13999-Etheric-Projection-related-to-Kundalini-symptoms

Hm, well, maybe the etheric energy body is also the kundalini stuff somehow? 

[catmeow]

Well I believe that the chakras and etheric body are closely, if not intimately, related. It stands to reason then, that the practice of etheric projection will activate some of the chakras (or vice-versa) and could give rise to kundalini effects?

[todd421757]

Hm, well, maybe the etheric energy body is also the kundalini stuff somehow?  

Kundalini is the energy of the internal chakra system of the spine and head centers. Kundalini activation is when you can take the energy from one or all the chakras and raise its ascent upwards.

Kundalini is the internal energetic framework of the body. While the aura (Vehram energy system) is the external energetic framework.

Whether these two energetic systems are made up of the exact same energy or different compositions is unknown.

According to Max Heindel, he says they are different.

The etheric body is made up of 4 parts according to author Max Heindel. I would agree with him on this. There are two higher ethers and two lower ethers that make up the etheric body.

I believe the two lower ethers form the internal kundalini energy, and the two higher ethers form the external aura or Vehram energy system.

According to Max Heindel, the two lower ethers normally don't exit the body except at death, but he says it is possible for them to exit during an obe or during a medium seance. But he warns against it.

On the other hand, the two higher ethers can exit the body during an obe with no adverse side effects.

For further information, please check out Max Heindel's "Silver Cord and Seed Atoms". Below is a link to it. I can't find a pdf version of it.

http://www.rosicrucian.com/scs/scseng01.htm