Evidence the OBE/AP Is Real, From A Different Tangent - "Opposite Theory"

[lostsole]

Guess it's my day to make some posts. Lol. I hope they are helpful?

Anyway, I got thinking, my twenty years of studying NDE's, the knowledge gleaned, might be helpful for newer people who wonder if the OBE/AP, and other supernatural phenomenon are real or not. I know I used to wonder.

NDE's are at their core, out of body experiences, so I feel this post is right on topic for this forum.
 
In researching phenomenon like this for decades, there's a point you cross statistically, where these sorts of experiences are real without question. And, going with Occam's Razor principle, the simplest answer is often the best, then the probability post one's studies, is that the supernatural being real IS the simplest/best answer.

The materialist explanations then start to seem like mental gymnastics that are downright silly.

So, after about a decade of reading thousands of NDE's, I personally connected a lot of dots. Some of those dots I summarized in an essay I dubbed "Opposite Theory."
 
What is opposite theory, at least in my meaning?
 
It is when people have an experience that is opposite of their life conditioning, or they gain new knowledge they would not have had before that is opposite of what they would want to learn.
 
One could argue, maybe all of these NDE experiencers read NDEs/OBEs before they died? Fine, if you want to say that during the internet age. However, if you go back and read experiences from the early 1900's or 1800's even, then the features are the same clear back then.
 
There was no internet in those years gone by to easily learn what NDE's are like, and in fact, the further you go back in time, the more fearful people were to talk about their experience lest they be thrown in a mental ward.
 
So, with that said, I'll share a shortened bullet points version of my essay with some examples.

#1. The Life Review

- Most people have been conditioned to think of Heaven, Hell, judgement, God, Satan, etc. Even the non-religious will often think in these terms, despite they don't believe in religious concepts.
 
- Therefore, why do nearly all life reviews of NDE's have the following attributes that are opposite of people's conditioning?
 
- No judgement of any sort, save judging one's self, which you don't have to do.

- No literal "Heaven" or "Hell", or Satan.

- The life reviewees are put into the experience of everyone they affected in their lives and feel how they made others feel, good or bad. However they made others feel, then goes out in an energetic wave affecting everyone else.
 
So, in other words, the person in the life review may step into and feel dozens, hundreds, or thousands of other people's feelings that were all caused by the life reviewee's direct actions while alive.
 
- Imagine Hitler. He may have been placed into the souls of millions to feel directly how his actions affected all of those people, their children and even children they did not have because they were killed.
 
So, the above is pretty wild and typical people would not ever think of that sort of thing that happens in a life review. Therefore, it is opposite of most people's life conditioning, yet remarkably consistent in the life review between many people who did not know of each other prior to their NDE.
 
#2 Told to go back/work to do

- Most NDE's are told at some point it is not their time, they have work left to do, WHILE they are in the middle of a typically heavenly experience.
 
- Most say they did NOT want to come back but were made to.
 
- Therefore, this is opposite of what most people would imagine, or their minds would "make up." If it was a hallucination, then it stands to reason, the experiencer would choose to stay in the heavenly place and not return by force to what can often be an Earthly hell for many.
 
#3. 360 Vision

- Many NDE's go to the other side and their vision works in a 360 degree format, where they can see from all directions.

- As you know, throughout our lives, we see forward with two eyes. If the NDEs were the brain hallucinating, why make up this 360 degree vision? Why would nearly everyone that mentions it, all have this similar vision type of experience without knowing the other NDE'rs?

- 360 degree vision is opposite of most people's experience of vision.
 
#4. Telepathy

- In our normal lives, we all talk with our mouths, correct? Telepathy is the subject of movies and fiction. We know what it is, but we don't do it.
 
- In the collective NDE experience, I can't think of an NDE that the experiencer did not use telepathy to communicate.
 
- Therefore, yet again, this is completely opposite of people's conditioning of how they talk to one another. Why does everyone use "woo woo" telepathy on the "other side" if it is just a hallucination?

#5. Colors, Sounds, Music

- All of us are used to the standard colors, sounds, types of music, etc., that are in our environment.
 
- Numerous NDE'rs mention colors they have never seen before, sounds or music that is impossible on Earth, and so on.
 
- So, if the NDE is only a hallucination, why are so many people making up the idea that there has to be colors, sounds, etc., that they have never experienced before? This would be opposite of what we would expect.

#6. General Beliefs

-   Along the lines of what was said in the life review section, consider that most religious beliefs are based around NON New Age/Eastern Spiritual. Many people are Christian and believe in the bible for instance.
 
-   However, many Christians find experiences like the NDE/OBE to be demonic in origin.
 
-   But, then Christians who themselves have an NDE, often come back expressing concepts that are against their original beliefs and have New Age/Eastern Spiritual leanings.

-   Or, Atheists who come back and did not believe in anything, also come back with New Age/Eastern Spiritual leanings.

-   In both cases, these changes or additions to their knowledge are opposite of their conditioning.

-   In some cases, the person may not have even been aware of New Age/Eastern Spiritual teachings. I know I wasn't when I was religious, decades ago. Therefore, how did they learn knowledge they did not know?

-   This would be especially true of children who have NDE's and do not have many pre-conceived notions, yet also can come back with "New Age/Eastern Spiritual types of knowledge. How?

#7. Oneness

- Nearly all NDE'rs speak of "Oneness" or that we are all connected. Most average people do not think in terms of being connected to everyone else, the Earth, animals, etc.

- Thus, this is another example of learning the opposite of what we would expect.

# 8. No time

- We all live in this realm under the dictates of time. However, nearly all NDE's speak of there being no such thing as time on the other side, rather, everything is occuring at once.

- Thus, again, if the NDE were a hallucination, why would all of these people's brains come up with the bizarre idea of "no time?" That is opposite of everything they know regarding time and is even impossible to comprehend as humans.

The main take away is, once you read enough deeper NDE and/or OBE experiences, across the centuries, and across all various population, ages, and belief types, it becomes apparent that it is impossible for all of these people to have similar data that is opposite of what they believed, or they didn't know at all.

I've only given some of my examples of opposite theory, there are more, but this is long enough.
 
Anyway, so I propose, statistically speaking, that something supernatural is occurring. NDE's and OBE's in most cases, are not hallucinations of the mind, but are genuine experiences beyond the normal physical body.

Hope this helps someone. I may expand on this post if I think of anything important that I forgot.

I'll take a new posts break for a while now. : )

I will add a clarification for my original post. I said "most" NDEs a lot. In saying that, I meant most "deep" NDEs. And, specifically deep NDEs with those particular features.

There are numerous NDEs where people just pop out of their body for a bit and then pop back in. My essay is based on the deeper and more profound experiences that have similar commonalities. NDEs can be pretty different despite having some things in common.

Some features like "no time", "must go back", "oneness" are very common. In contrast, life reviews  are not very common, at least not the deeper ones. However, when people do have them, they are similar in scope.

Think of it like visiting Earth as a metaphor. There is blue sky, dirt, birds, rocks, etc., all over the place on Earth. Those sorts of things are common features. However, the many locations of Earth still differ dramatically in other ways.

For anyone that doesn't know and has interest, NDERF has a vast collection of thousands of them. I recommend starting with reading the exceptional NDEs here. https://www.nderf.org/Archives/exceptional.html

The standard ones are here. https://www.nderf.org/Archives/NDERF_NDEs.html

[Lumaza]

 All of those that you mentioned above Lostsole, attribute to any form of non-physical experiences. It is not just that way in a NDE or OBE.

 My question is, did you find what "you" are looking for? You can read all you want on NDEs and the subject of non-physical exploration. Until you have your own experiences, that's all they are is just "stories".

 Some people come here to the Pulse to challenge us to "prove it" to them. They don't realize that that is a lost cause. Why? Because it only matters what we believe and are shown to be true. I am not going to attempt to change anyone's mind on this. I will teach and help a person that is serious to get there though. They can achieve the success they are looking for. but it will take a lot of practice and patience to finally persevere. Unless of course they only want a "sneak peek" of what could be. I think during our lives everyone gets a "sneak peek", behind the veil. Many will dismiss it as a "hallucination or just a Dream". Some will pursue further knowledge on the subject. They will find though that this is not a subject that is easily spoken of, without some form of ridicule.

[lostsole]

All of those that you mentioned above Lostsole, attribute to any form of non-physical experiences. It is not just that way in a NDE or OBE.

Agreed. I think you misunderstood my intentions, or maybe you thought I was implying those other experiences are not important. That was not the case or my point.

My study at the time was focused on NDE's, that genre subject was my "launching pad" that converted me into a completely different life and belief system. I've expanded into numerous other things since, as touched on in my other threads. Like you, I'm multifaceted.   

And, indeed, what I've said covers other types of non physical experiences or can be experienced in those. NDE's are just a part of the whole.

I posted these older observations I made to assist any who may still be in doubt that these experiences are tangible and real. My post is in no way meant to negate the importance of one's own personal OBE/AP, etc., but rather to encourage the same by increasing confidence and faith in the subjects.

As for hard skeptics. I learned twenty years ago their minds are made up. I don't bother with them, it's a waste of my time and theirs. They are happy where they are at.

My question is, did you find what "you" are looking for? You can read all you want on NDEs and the subject of non-physical exploration. Until you have your own experiences, that's all they are is just "stories".

I actually don't agree with you entirely on this one. If one is open minded, then the experiences of others can cause great evolution in a person. After studying those many NDE's years ago, I was changed entirely as if I had gone through my own NDE. Everything in my life turned upside down, in a good way.

So, they were not just stories, they were powerful testimonies for me at the time. But yes, ultimately we all who are deeply dedicated on this particular journey need to "get out there." It is why I am here posting on this forum now vs lurking years back, when I was less sure of what I wanted.

As well, there are numerous average folks who are never going to pursue their own OBE, or whatever, but coming across NDEs or channeling, etc., still wake them up and evolve them along their own paths without necessarily having personal experiences. My wife, siblings and other friends are perfect examples of this. Stories matter.

Some will pursue further knowledge on the subject. They will find though that this is not a subject that is easily spoken of, without some form of ridicule.

This is true, but times are changing. All the obscure things I believed and learned many years ago were ridiculed by nearly everyone I told about it back then.

Now days, folks are becoming far more open. Society is waking up, albeit not quick enough imo. As an example, this waking up is evident in numerous new YT channels on these non physical subjects and tens of thousands of supportive comments that would not have been there ten or fifteen years ago.


 

[Xanth]

Guess it's my day to make some posts. Lol. I hope they are helpful?

Anyway, I got thinking, my twenty  ......  expand on this post if I think of anything important that I forgot.

I'll take a new posts break for a while now. : )

That was fascinating!  And actually further reinforces the concepts which Monroe shared about what he felt happens after one's physical body ceases to function here.  By Monroe's own words, he wasn't religious in the slightest as he wasn't raised that way. 

I still haven't reconciled the idea though that we still have these experiences because we're still, in some way, still connected to our physical bodies here in this reality.  They haven't FULLY died here yet and that might be an important part.  It's "NEAR" death... not "PERMANENTLY" died.

I make this distinction to a lot of people and they freak out saying that, "The doctors said they died!"... but then they don't realize that we humans actually have ZERO idea when death is permanent and non-recoverable.  So meh. 

Still, the simple fact that so many stories have so many similarities between them CANNOT be a coincidence. 

Some people come here to the Pulse to challenge us to "prove it" to them. They don't realize that that is a lost cause. Why? Because it only matters what we believe and are shown to be true. I am not going to attempt to change anyone's mind on this. I will teach and help a person that is serious to get there though. They can achieve the success they are looking for. but it will take a lot of practice and patience to finally persevere. Unless of course they only want a "sneak peek" of what could be. I think during our lives everyone gets a "sneak peek", behind the veil. Many will dismiss it as a "hallucination or just a Dream". Some will pursue further knowledge on the subject. They will find though that this is not a subject that is easily spoken of, without some form of ridicule.

Precisely.  I'm always puzzled by those people, but then they are usually materialists who don't realize that you cannot have another person's experience. 

[lostsole]

They haven't FULLY died here yet and that might be an important part.  It's "NEAR" death... not "PERMANENTLY" died.

First, I'm very happy you liked the post! Thank you for reading it. The opposite points despite they seem kind of "duh" to me now, still took me many years for all of that to sink in.

Anyway, I agree with your comment above. We truly don't know when the point of death is nor can any of us know what happens after we die for certain, how it works.

But, I can say that in quite a few NDE's, some folks bodies were reallllly messed up or near death for quite a while to where they should have been dead and still came back.

But, yeah, who knows any of this for certain. I do know people's brains can't learn stuff magically that they did not know before. So something is going on while they are near death.

[Xanth]

But, yeah, who knows any of this for certain. I do know people's brains can't learn stuff magically that they did not know before. So something is going on while they are near death.

I do have a theory on that... and it's why and how "psychics" work.  Basically, since we're all FROM consciousness, we each have direct access to all that consciousness "knows".  We should, theoretically, be able to tap into that (knowingly or unknowingly) to learn things.  In this case, the stuff people couldn't know (like what's going on in a surgical room) is known to the people in the room and you pick up on that through consciousness.

I dunno, I'm kinda just throwing crap at a wall and seeing what sticks here.  HAHA 

[lostsole]

we each have direct access to all that consciousness "knows".

Actually, I believe that also. We are already all that is at the core but we have all these layers or filters in place to separate us from our "I Am" or greater consciousness to play this "Earth game."

So, in theory, we should be able to in certain situations when our filters are down, (near death, OBE, some drug trips,) be able to access that info and our past lives as well, etc.

[Xanth]

Actually, I believe that also. We are already all that is at the core but we have all these layers or filters in place to separate us from our "I Am" or greater consciousness to play this "Earth game."

So, in theory, we should be able to in certain situations when our filters are down, (near death, OBE, some drug trips,) be able to access that info and our past lives as well, etc.

Exactly!  That's my explanation for things like knowing what you possibly could not know.  Some people have more direct "natural" access to that information than others - we call them psychics.

It also explains things like how when we project into environments which we haven't experienced directly ourselves and yet still see and know things about that place which are accurate - because someone, somewhere has been there or is there right now experiencing it.  It becomes part of consciousness. 

[lostsole]

Here's an interview with James Van Praagh the famous psychic talking about some features of the life review. He says exactly what I was saying above about the energetic wave in the life review.

Start the video at the 22:00 minute mark.