High focus levels and bst have me worried

[jilola]

Actually it's said "For God so loved.. that he gave His only begotten son so that..believeth in Him..."
This refers to one's belief in God, in my opinion.
And since God  made us in his image alludes to us being God and God being us, it follows that as long as we realize we are diviine of our own right and axct accordingly and acccording to our best ability all is well.

All religions are man's attempt to put existence into words, which is impossible.
We are divine and of the divine. That bestows us with a certain amount of responsibility in our everyday lives but only the extent of our best conscious ability.

Doubt all organized religions because in the end they are but feeble attempts to describe an experience of one's true existence.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[JustLikeThePill]

thanks for your input. what does l&l mean?

i honestly dont think i am god and god is me. when he says he made us in his image, i think it means that he the way he wanted them. he had an image (vision) of how he wanted us and he made us to be that. its like saying he loves us just the way we are because he made us that way and wants us that way. he loves everyone even those that dont love/believe in him. or thats just my take on it.

i dont want to reject my religion. i really dont like to call it a religion because its just what "i" believe. i mean i dont agree with the bible on everything and i do have my own opinions that differ from the bibles, but for the most part its the same. i dont even have a demonination or go to church lol.

still.. it has be extremely worried. for a second i thought "maybe f27 IS heaven, it never says its not" then i remembered that only those who accept God go to heaven.. or thats just my beliefe so please, no one get mad at me. I know we dont just stop existing weather theres a god or not, but i dont like believing in 2 things at once that say different things happen when you die. it greatly disturbes me.

[Van-Stolin]

Don't stop believing man.  Really all the astral is is a point where you realize that all things physical are meaningless and so you can move one to higher planes this is where heaven is and Robert has told of this so look up some of his posts.

[Kelbel]

Dont worry, i've been there. What I suggest to you, is this. Study! Study everything you can get your hands on, I recommend reading on Buddhism, Kabalah, and the 7 astral demninsions. Beliving in the 7 astral layers so to speak is pretty much what I go by, it's a very conforting way to veiw things, and you dont have to abondon some of the things you hold dear, like your god, or Jesus. I have full faith that you are a good person, and while on your search for the truth, somthing happens to you, im sure your god, or whoever is out there will welcome you with open arms. Knowledge is power, the more you know, the better you will feel. []

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by Kelbel

Study everything you can get your hands on, I recommend reading on Buddhism, Kabalah, and the 7 astral demninsions.

As jilola said:

quote:All religions are man's attempt to put existence into words, which is impossible.

I will say that the divine/spiritual/etc can be experienced, but verbal communication is not able to remotely describe it.

But if you have never been exposed to other religions then reading up on them can give you some new ideas.

If you look beyond the literal with more understanding of the spiritual, then Christianity does hold some truth and wisdom.

I see religions as stepping stones into the spiritual that goes beyond words. They are to be questioned so you can learn and attain better understanding, not be to followed blindly. When you reach the point that you start to question your religion and beliefs, then you are ready to start on a true spiritual journey. Each person's path is unique to them so no one can tell you what you should be doing.

[seth817]

What is BST [?]

[Fyrenze]

quote:Originally posted by seth817

What is BST [?]

Belief System Territory -> BST.


][\/][

[JustLikeThePill]

thanks guys, that brought some comfort, but its still... worrying. Its like i cant believe in two things at once.

i mean beleiving in the BST and that all people go to f27 once they "ascend" is totally contradictory to everything i believe, you know?

[beavis]

Go to astral and see for yourself. Faith in a religion and faith in astral both suck.

[Fyrenze]

Faith is good. Faith in a misconception is not. I'm not saying your religion is a misconception - I leave that to you to discover.

][\/][

[Mustardseed]

Hi there
Just my input. I would be careful what I read and believe. I am also a Christian. Have been a Missionary for 25 yrs and for a while I had a hard time with OBEs. I have them and had them since childhood but why where and how. ?? I have experimented with OBEs my own way and am starting to understand a little of how it works. I would also be careful about inducing them!! and take Monroes book as well as this site and the stuf you here with a lot of salt. The folks you talk to here are often just guessing and speaking from the experience of their "teachers"., What Christianity and other beliefsystems are in the understanding of Focus levels is just guesses really not an exact science. I take a good time to pray about my experiences and never induce them. They mostly come as I am praying anyway. Look in the section of Spiritual selfdefense and see how messed up some people have gotten. It is no game there is a reason and there is right andf wrong. Its all in the motive.
Regards and prayers Mustardseed

[one_each]

I grew up as a Christian and many years ago, I started asking the hard questions no one could answer.  The response I got was something like, "I don't know, God knows."  Well, I started asking God in prayer.  Then I heard about OBEs and wondered about them.  Since I knew other Christians did not know the answer about them, I asked God.  That night I had my first OBE.

My advice is to put your faith in God and listen to him.  When in doubt, ask for guidance.  Remember this, seek and ye shall find.

[Mustardseed]

Well said 1each

[Ceriel N]

Not only "seek and ye shall find", but also "you shall find what you seek", and that is as much a curse as a blessing.
If you have expectations, they will be met if you are dilligent enough, but it might be an illusion that you get instead of the truth. If you expect something to have a particular appearance, then it most probably will. Such is our power: enough to distort reality itself if we are not careful.
It is so very hard to see beyond the veil. We seem to learn by being wrong rather than getting it right. Unfortunately this is a parallell with a child learning that the plate is hot and should not be touched the hard way. =/

[Passionate-fool]

Hey Justlikethepill,

You are right to be worried about two beliefs that contradict each other my friend[].  I am a Christian as well and have come to learn that God never contradicts Himself.  I can't claim to have knowledge of BST or f27 or any of that.  Yes, it is good to read and to learn, but remember the bible isn't God's holy word for nothing.  The message of the bible is that you are broken and need to be saved.  Remember that, cause everywhere else you look they are going to try and tell you that you can do it on your own and you don't NEED to be saved.  They are trying to tell you to elevate yourself to the position of "god" so you can "ascend" into the glorious infinity of the astral or whatever people think of it.  This concept is preached with such intelligent and flowery speach that it is hard to catch the real meaning behind it.  Just look at what they relegate our beloved Jesus Christ too!!!  A TRAP!!!!!  Just remember the feelings you have had when you were especially attuned to Jesus.  Its that sense of FREEDOM!  They are trying to massage your PRIDE Pill.  The Original Sin.  RUN FROM IT!!!!!  You are NOT God.  You NEVER will be.  Don't listen to anyone who tells you that you are.  There are many helpful and fascinating things out there to learn about existence, but ALWAYS have your bible out to be a measuring stick!  ALWAYS pray about what you learn!  NEVER look to your own power!  TRUST GOD and HIS POWER!  Its the only sure way things will turn out good.

For those of you who take offense to my post.  So be it.  This wasn't for you.

Praying that blessings will rain upon you Pill!

Passionate-fool.

[JustLikeThePill]

Thanks passionate-fool

I completely agree. i've had time to think about and and i've come to the conclusion that i wont worry about the BST and f27. if i get there while aping, then great! but i wont worry myself over it. God is def. true and this most likely is just your subconcous (bst)

i DO feel better now, thank you so much!

[Mustardseed]

It is quite a odd thing that while these astral pulsers for the most part do not believe that God confines anyone. That there are no absolutes and that it "is all in your mind" they also confine those that believe in a eternal and omnipresent and unlimited God to some place they call the "focus level 27" . It is the same principle that make them state that "you are God" and "he is God" and "we all are God" the only one who is "only a man" is Jesus[] think about it.

Astral traveling seems to be something that is natural and inherent in man. A gift, like playing the guitar. Some pick it up in 1 week others take months and years. Some never try and some really desire it. I think it is all in what kind of music one plays.

I think that the Church system is so afraid of this and the possibility of a "moving of the Spirit" that they try their best, as they always have, to stamp out any wildfire among their members, and in the process become dead and cold without any fire at all, and they are happy with this predictability.

Regards Mustardseed

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

It is quite a odd thing that while these astral pulsers for the most part do not believe that God confines anyone. That there are no absolutes and that it "is all in your mind" they also confine those that believe in a eternal and omnipresent and unlimited God to some place they call the "focus level 27" . It is the same principle that make them state that "you are God" and "he is God" and "we all are God" the only one who is "only a man" is Jesus[] think about it.

Astral traveling seems to be something that is natural and inherent in man. A gift, like playing the guitar. Some pick it up in 1 week others take months and years. Some never try and some really desire it. I think it is all in what kind of music one plays.

I think that the Church system is so afraid of this and the possibility of a "moving of the Spirit" that they try their best, as they always have, to stamp out any wildfire among their members, and in the process become dead and cold without any fire at all, and they are happy with this predictability.

Regards Mustardseed

Nobody is "confining" people who believe anything to F27.  F27 is simply a label used to try and describe the area these "believers" seem to create for themselves.  As with all labels, it is useful to a point, but fails to accurately reflect the full reality of what it attempts to describe.

--Soulfire

[Chris]

Many people misunderstand the statement, "I am god and god is me". It is not that you indeed ARE as big and powerful as god... that is the you that is here in this limited existance. It is simply that you are a member or part of god. Remember when Jesus said to his disciples, "you are members of my body". This is in fact the essence of what many believe to be the trinity. Division of consciousness and energy within a whole. Think of it this way... Is my finger part of me? Can it be said that my finger is part of Chris? Absolutely. However, is my finger greater than Chris? No. We are all part of God, but no one person is greater than the whole. Your higher self is greater than you since you are only a part of it... however, it is possible to gain the perspective of the higher self and bring some of that perspective into the smaller part which is the you here in this limited 3D Physical reality.

[Akensai]

I'm not a Christian myself, but I will try to find so common ground between us, so I can answer your question.

God is the highest existence, as a Christian you would agree on that. There is nothing higher, nothing more than god. Then "we are god" simply means we are PART of god. If god was a large sea and we are but one wave on that sea, the wave is part of the sea, but different also, this is us, a wave on the sea of existence. Perhaps we are not even the wave, but only the very top of it and what lies between the deep sea of existence and the very top of this wave? What leis between haven and earth? I don't know. Can any on earth really know?

I dare say no one can! We know only very little, some more than other. Here I think it's helpful if you read Robert Bruce - <Ahttp://www.astralpulse.com/articles/robert/articles_44.htm> The Catch Basket Concept. In short belief in what you actually know.

Do you know god, you don't. What do you know of the bible? This is a most important question. If you belief in the bible you need to know why. I'm not going to attack any of your beliefs and I won't mention what I think of the bible either, but I want to say that when you belief something you have to come to know what you belief or it will be just blind belief. Your belief in the bible should only be if you know that every word it contains can indeed be tested for truth.

The bible contains much wisdom on how to lead you life, do you live by these words. If you do, have they brought you what they said they would. IF so then you already tested part of the bible.

I think there are 3 parts of the bible.

1)   History.
2)   Rules and advice on how to live.
3)   Prophesy.

History you cannot test, agrological and historical research is not reliable enough to take it as a fact.

The second you can test! By living by the rules and advice the bible brings. "By their fruits you shall know them" Do the rules and advice in the bible brings you good fruits, does it bring you a joyful living, does it bring you fulfillment?  I can not answer this for you, but this is a question you should ask yourself in all honesty.

Prophesy. This is where things get complicated; you cannot test this just like history, but is far more important as deals whit YOUR future. You follow the bible, because what it says about the god and the future. It tell you what the future brings you when you follow its words, but you cannot test them, it is faith. Again nothing wrong whit faith, but you must ask yourself; does the bible answer my question about life in a satisfying way? I cannot answer this for you, but this too is a question you should ask yourself in all honesty.  

When you have answered your questions, you will know if you rightfully doubted your religion or not.

Regarding astral travel and focus level, Belief System Territory.

The same goes for these things as for the bible, you have test them. Don't belief any of it just because it is written in a book. However there is reason to belief it could be true? IF you think so you go and test them. Astral travel you can learn (guides and books enough about it), if you made this step and you confirmed that astral is true you can test the focus level, Belief System Territory. This will indeed take some time, but should not be impossible. (if so than you have answer to your question none the less)

First you take knowledge > then you logically think about it, you see if it is logical in reference whit what you already know Then when you think something is possible.(You take in account the possible dangers whit testing)  > you test it. If it holds true than you truly know.

This is your tool for finding out the answers to your questions.

The last thing I want to say is; "seek and ye shall find", is absolutely true, you have make effort to find the answers and the will come. (But don't have to much expectation on when, these things don't come over night.)

[holy reality]

all beliefs are equally valid/invalid... and all beliefs are equally likely.

since there are 6 billion people in the world, and each of them have different sets of beliefs, even if they adhere to an organized religion... and since mankind has been around and developed religions since the beginning of time, which is.......... i have no idea how long... thousands of years...

those are thousands of billions of different belief systems.

the chance that any one of them could be precisely right is extremely obscure.

and in my darkest moment fetal and weeping
the moon tells me a secret, my confidant
as full and bright as i am
this light is not my own and
a million light reflections pass over me.

if you were born into christianity, your beliefs are NOT your own, they are direct reflections of your parents, preachers, teachers, etc.

Think about it. Imagine you were born in the middle east.... you'd be saying the exact same thing right now, except you'd be questioning Islam (providing you were an exact duplicate of yourself, just in a different location.

If you were born in India you'd probably be a Hindu. If you were born in Africa you'd probably be a "pagan" but regardless of where you were born, YOU THINK YOUR BELIEFS ARE RIGHT.

They aren't even your beliefs to begin with. I could take a kid and convince him the sun is God, very very easily, so could you, and that is precisely what society and especially our parents to do us.

They take THEIR beliefs (which they got from someone else) and they tell you that they are right, and force them into your head before you know any better.

If you kept a kid locked in a woodshed you could convince him nothing exists outside the shed and that if he stepped out of it, he would die... it's like that Greek philosophy story about the people that refused to leave the cave.

There is nothing wrong with questioning and even abandoning your beliefs, it's the only way for you to establish your own identity. You aren't thinking for yourself if everything you know about life is shaped by a book that someone else conditioned you to believe to be true.

If there is a God, and he is even remotely "loving" and "forgiving" like the Bible wants you to think, he is not going to send you to hell for trying to find the truth for yourself... he's going to praise you for it.

Think about it... why would God want people putting blind faith into something that they were raised into? I mean... seriously... corrupt, horrible people, have controlled organized religion since the beginning of time.... look at the horrible things that Church did in the middle ages, do you really think that they wouldn't alter the Bible, WHEN THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE COPIES OF IT, to suit their well beings and to better control people? It is widely thought that the whole concept of hell was invented by the church during those time periods to scare people into doing what they say.

God does not want you being a blind sheep.... it is that blind faith that makes tyranny, oppression, murder, etc. possible. God doesn't want you saying Heil Bush, or Heil Hitler, he wants you looking at why you believe what you do, and trying to make sense out of all of it, he doesn't want you sending fuckloads of money to televangelists just because they say JESUS in a nice, sentimental southern accent.

"To think for yourself you must question authority."
But I don't know how to put this rant any simpler than to quote reflection.

and in my darkest moment fetal and weeping
the moon tells me a secret, my confidant
as full and bright as i am
this light is not my own and
a million light reflections pass over me.

If your beliefs are worth having in the first place they will survive open minded and objective questioning. God doesn't want you blindly trusting rich, murdeorus, corrupt people (Bush/Osama, using God as a reason to kill, for example), nor does he want you trusting people that are making money in his name.

I mean either a huge chunk of the world is predestined to hell and God is a big bully, or he understand what people are going through and as long as they try and find their own spirituality, he's happy... he created them in the exact circumstances in which they live in after all, so he should certainly understand what they are going through, he's supposed to be omnipotent... how can he expect you to randomly choose from 3 or 4 mainstreamed religions and just HOPE that you picked the "right" one?

Questioning your beliefs is a key step in achieiving your own idenitity, and this goes for OBE beliefs too.. why do you even believe in a belief zone just because you've read about it, for example?

Even if you manage to go to one while out of body it could just be the result of your subconscious recreating something that you had previously read about.

Question everything.

[Soulfire]

Great post, Holy Reality.  

[Ybom]

I almost went into a political post! Thanks for putting my focus on the wrong thing here, holy reality! [xx(]

Anyways regarding what you read about the BST, you're putting more faith in an article online than the Bible? If you're going to believe in something like that, I suggest you get to know the authors a bit better before you decide anything (heck, I'm still shaking in my birthday socks [naked feet leh] about the whole Yellowstone going to explode thing, but I don't actively think I'm going to die 1 second from now due to it). What I mean is, I have been lead to believe something via an original article that really means something and seems to provide strong evidence about something, but when I asked questions about it that hadn't really been asked to the person before, the story usually starts to change. What it turns out to be usually is they apply logic to a psychological question which cannot be answered rather than experiencing something on the level which they speak.

If you want a very very strong example of this, I can give you one that directly relates to me. There is a video game (quite popular really) called Xenogears. This RPG for the PS1 details a skewed interpretation of everything from Heaven and God, to the origins of the human race, based loosely on the bible and changed with writing talent to make sense. To this day I love that as a well written story, an artistic interpretation of faith and spirituality. But there was a point in time I actually was considering creating a faith based on this story, simply because it filled in a lot of answers to questions I had been thinking about for some time. Some of them still fit in in their own spot, but other things just don't align properly now. What happened? I'll tell you what happened, I continued to learn and morph my beliefs based on what I experienced and figured out.

So here's what I'm saying in a nutshell. All that gobbledygook that you're reading, be it the bible, articles linked here, articles via a google, logic, philosophy class, peer knowledge, or whatever; try not to be afraid of what if's from those! Do you want to lose part of your free will to choose what you want in a religion or belief structure due to fear of the future (and what someone says)? I don't, but if you do, go ahead and be afraid of being stuck on an island. I don't really care, because there's lots of things to explore there...fun (and where there's an island, there's many many beaches...)

Do you get my drift here, or should I go further?

[golding_light]

This is just my theory on religion and god, so im not judging anyone, just sharing my opinion.

I believe that religions are similar to cults, i mean i guess you can call jesus one of the first cult leaders, If he even did exist, then he was either a drunk, or a plain lyer who really needed attention, because come on, if you really think about it, believing in god is almost like believing in santa or monsters under you bed. The idea of monsters or vampires is completely ridiculous, but not god or jesus, of course not, thats all real, GIVE ME A BREAK!

I think if Jesus did exist that he was a just a very moral man, with a big heart, and if anything went around giving a hand to people and giving them advice, and then hundreds of years later the churches blow the story out of proportion maing him sound like a super hero or something, but just think of this for a minute. A  long time ago when the catholic church was basically the law, is was easy for them to justify their laws because they would say "You are braing one of the ten comandements", or  "You are a sinner", so basically they used jesus and the rumours to control people, and to also have people put faith in the churches and follow them, LIKE A CULT.

Im am not saying i am absolutely right about all this, because nothing is imposible, only improbable. But maybe who ever reads this should atleast reflect on its possbility, because to be strong and mature is to humble ones self,so be open and think about it, for i used to have faith in god and religion when i was younger, but then i became more aware and more intellectual.

[JustLikeThePill]

all my life i have been told about god ect ect, and i have investigated other religions, so i'm not just going along with the crowd. I read about the higher focus levels and the BST and now i'm starting to question the bible and God. I am saved, so no matter what i know i wont go to hell now, but i dont want to use that as like, "well if i start believing something entirely different, then i've still got jesus so i wont go to hell" oh well attitude, you know? i mean god said accept Christ and you'll be saved and go to heaven ect ect, but acording to all the literature, people who follow beliefs like that end up "traps" on "islands" in the bst. that doesn't sound fun. And when they "ascend" they go to f27, whats up with that? i'm starting to doubt my own religion and its REALLY getting me worried.

seriously its scaring me. please help if you can.