Hitchhiker

[jilola]

Why does he have to be a neg?

Couldn't it be a human souls trapped in the belief systems and wanting someone to carry him away to the afterlife proper?

2cents & L&L
jouni

[drinsomno]

hey patrik dont worry about the length of your post you gave a lot of useful info.hopefully someone else will help you with this.i am sorry i cant help but i might find someone who can.the only thing i can tell you to do is to tell the hitchhiker to get lost it might work...
well i hope i can help.
[][][8D]

[Patrik]

jilola,
Actually that is a very interesting view on it... Perhaps he is hoping that clanging on to me, and I projecting to the higher levels will cause him to project with me, in a way "hitchhiking" to the higher levels with me.

Still curious how he in one moment is a real nasty being, doing everything he can to scare. And in the next seem to be like any human being, except does everything to clang on to me.

It is an interesting idea, and worth consideration, thank you.


drinsomno,
hehe, if it was just that easy On one hand, if he does it because he is afraid, and want help, I do want to help him if I can. But on the other hand, I have no idea how to help him if so, and he does ruin my projections making it impossible for me to explore the astral.


Again, if anyone has any ideas or suggestions they are appreciated, thanks.

[jilola]

Well, since the astral is thought==action and thought==perception, here's what I'd suggest.

The poor sob has been stuck there, lost and frightened for who knows how long. Frantic searching, panic, despair and loneliness makes him desperate and you pick up this desperation, panic, fear etc.
You interpret this frantic plea for help as an attach and thus your mind creates the image of the icky weirdo clinging to you.
Once you grabbed him he all of a sudden felt human, later you actually saw him as a human.

Ask him if he need assistance. I'm fairly sure thhat is the case.
One shold be careful to see what is really there and not what one thinks should be there [8D]

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Kerrblur]

Hello,

    I got one thing to say about this, your theories are awesome, and the post is not too long, because it shows you give details in your concerns.  But I will tell you this, I had the same problem with the hitchhiker entity.  Every time I would project, I would have this nasty old man, (in my case he was older than mid 40's) clinged on my back, just hugging me, like he didnt wanna let go.  I'm not sure what things this man had said to you, you didnt go much into detail about this. This man that was hugged on to me would talk to me for what seemed like hours and hours, just talking in a non-threating way about how the astral is bad news for us humans.  He was almost like a salesman talking in your ear for non-stop amounts of time! he was very intelligent.  My hitchhiker would answer me, but would either be very vague or wouldnt answer the question, but talk literally all around it, just like government people do on the news.

 I will tell you this though, the hitchhiker guy that was on me for 6+ months would never let go, and I learned that the more I faught with the man, the more he clinged on and was always there. Here is what I did.  After he would start clinging on to me even when i was in my bed still, and just trying to sleep, just like your situation, I thought its enough, i had to find a solution,  I said to myself, fighting him, is making this man more and more eager to prevent me from projecting because at first, i would project, aND THEN he would be hugged on me, now he is holding meback from projecting period.

What you have to do is one of two things; ignore the SOB til he gets the point that you arnt no easy-to-sway human who can be scared. . . or complement the basterd who is hugged on to you, "you are a 'Good friend'."  like him alot! i am serious.  It worked for me, As soon as i started giving the guy complements and excrement, ignoring him, the F*ck never came back after awhile.  The hitchhiker would pout and moan and ask why im not talking or fighting, after awhile, he disappeared. and the 1 out of 200 people thing kinda of makes sense, theres very few of these guys, that hugg people, and MAYBE just maybe the one who is on you, was the one who was on me, and the 1 in 200 thing MAYBE means theres only one of these, because it takes along time to get rid of these basterds, once hes off someone, he takes his time finding the weakest person.

Well im not saying im weak, but it just took alittle longer to understand things.  but in the end, i was stronger. cause the hitchhiker is one of the strongest entities there is.

[Patrik]

jilola,

Thank you, once again you gave me a new and interesting perspective on it. The next time I will try and see what he wants. I have thought this many times, and it's easier to say it when in body, then actually doing it when out and you have a strange being/spirit grabbing you.

But if he wants help, I guess a little fear can be worth it. Especially if it will help him, and help me to be able to explore without him grabbing me every time.

[jilola]

Kerrblur: Have you ever been caught in the feedback loop?Where whatever you do only makes thing seems worse an after a while you forget it's you doing it and then wake up in total panic?

Think about how these guys have been i that sort of a loop for, for the sake of argument, 100 years. They are so engrossed in their delusion they can't see beyond what they've come to believe is the reality. That's why the guy would retreat when you didnät fight him. He believes there should be a fight. He doesn't remember anything else. They are deranged in sense and it will sometimes take a lot of effort to break their delusion.

Well, that's what I've come to believe.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Kerrblur]

ok, lol i havnt ever woke up in a panic except when i was a small kid.

But When you cease to fight, you cease to feed them the energy they long to cling on to you for.  Anything negative, they want!
I ceased to fight, and i gave the man positive energy, and i reverse the whole purpose that he was clinged to me for.

[Patrik]

Kerrblur,

Thanks a lot for your post, finally someone with the same problem, and actually able to get rid of him. I was beginning to be afraid it just wasn't possible, and he would stick on me as long as I kept projecting.

The fact he is able to penetrate my circle of protection and pentagrams however does make me wonder if he actually is negative, or just very confused. I think perhaps the best thing to do, is first try and talk to him, see if is is possible to get any sense out of him. Perhaps try and invoke a master, see if I can do anything to help.

If that does not work, then I will defenetely try your "like him alot" method... which by the way was very funny to read It will defenetely not be easy, but if that is the only way for him to leave me alone, then so be it.

Thank you a lot for your response

[Makaveli]

I've been held down and had my legs grabbed from behind after separating a few times.  Both times I just focused on staying positive without fear and it went away so I was able to continue the projection without problems.  

[Patrik]

Markaveli,

These problems aren't tactile imaginations, nor entities trying to prevent you from projecting. He grabs me AFTER projection, not during... He does not try to prevent me from splitting... He prevents me from going somewhere when I am actually split.

And trust me, staying positive does not help... I have tried that many times... I have seen his entire body, and touched him on many parts... It's not a being you can simply ignore... he is really persistent.

[Kerrblur]

Hello,

    Listen these entities are very intelligent, there masters of psychology.  The only way of getting rid of them is to do reverse psychology on them.  You must learn how to not fear them but instead, think of them as a f*cking joke.

Cause thats all they are to me now, there a joke, in fact if I had one of them on me again I'd start laughing and throw them b*tches  into my psi balls.

But serious, if you cant do this, you wont be rid of them, my philosophy(SP?) on it all is, negative cant live if theres a positive, (DUH!)

[Patrik]

I was just lucky to get out of body, I was in bed, rolled over and down on the floor. I stood up, saw nothing but blackness, and of course entity wrapped around me imidiately. I started laughing, trying to be nice, "Hey! How are you?"... "Nice to see you!" he seemed to get annoyed and/or surprised. He responded something like "I am the negative entity", I am not sure he used that term, he might have said demon or something else negative. I responded "Ohh really, is that you?"... all the time sounding happy and just in good mood.

After having laughed a while, trying to be nice... He stopped grabbing me, and instead lifted me up, started to carry me... Around this time I started to be able to see again... It was dark, but I could clearly see the room.

I tried to sound amused, he said "I am gonna hurt you!" and I responded "haha you do that!". After that he began sinking down through the floor, having me in his arms... I saw some room below... I began trying to invoke a master... kept saying it over and over again... But for some reason, one or two words each time became "silent", like I temporarily lost my voice.

I tried not be worried, and I think I managed it quite good... But I began to get afraid he would take me to some discusting place... I put my hand on his head... trying to imagine "lightnings" that would hurt him to go into his head... Didn't work... So I began to really "feel" energy get out of my hands, with intent to hurt him and create lightnings... Then I woke up in bed.


Stupid guy... Kerrblur, did he by any chance take you anywhere or do anything similar? I know I should probably have kept calm and found it amusing... But him taking me some place right after saying he would hurt me... not that fun, lol

On an addition... Kerrblur, I don't think this is related... But just in case, I have an astral cat which visits me most of the nights... sleeps next to me in bed. This is a normal cat, acts and feels like a normal cat. I have petted him when split, I have seen him etc...

The cat has even helped me a few times realize I am split, and waking me up from a dream by licking me in the face, waking me up out of body. So I cannot see why this would be related, the cat is very nice... But just in case, did you have anything like this that suddently stopped once you were rid of the guy?

Thanks.

[jilola]

quote:But I began to get afraid he would take me to some discusting place... I put my hand on his head... trying to imagine "lightnings" that would hurt him to go into his head... Didn't work... So I began to really "feel" energy get out of my hands, with intent to hurt him and create lightnings... Then I woke up in bed.

That there sounds like the beginnings of a feedback loop. You got worried, then tried to escape the situation. When that failed you got scared a bit, used force, didn't work, used more force, got more scared... etc
All the while the situation worsened because of your ointerpretation being out of control.

Well done, imho. I still maintain the guy is looking for help but hopelessly lost in his own delusions.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Nay]

Very interesting.  I've had something fly behind me, it never touched me but the negative energy it gave off is how I knew it was there.  

Actually after all was said and done, I laughed because I was trying to do something and then this energy would show up, so I would fly away and land again only to have it follow me..[]  I did this several times.  I finally gave up on finding a peaceful, private place and called it a day. []

Nay

[Dream Cadet]

In an OBE, I was grabbed from behind.  I percieved it to be a woman. Her arms wrapped around me at about mid chest. It felt like we were playfully dancing.  Like a couple of people horsing around at a party. We were kind of gyrating in a playful way.[:I].  I didn't get anything negative from it. She didn't actually let go. I just returned and the OBE ended.

Hmmm! Now I wonder![]

D.C.

[upstream]

Three years ago, I started to be suspicious when I began to think about myself as "we" at flying times somwhere in F21/22 dreams. At one of those times, when I flew through a window with great speed, I've found that someone is grabbing my ankle.

After that, I begun to aware that something is on my back. When I've attempted to get through a narrow passage, something pinched to one of the object of the previous place and the connection is stretched like a rubber band, holding me back. I've found this incident tend to repeat all the times, when I'm around the RTZ and trying to get through such narrow passages ("elastic windows") which are supposed to separate places not connected in RTZ. Some kind of sensory resistance for changing dream places?

First I tought that my back represent something from the corner of my awareness, perhaps my sleeping body projected into the dream space, similarly when body postures and pressures are appear in dreaming. However, I have had found that my usual hiperspeed of flying was greatly reduced, too. Zooming became difficult, and started to be saccadic, too.

At one of those struggles with narrow passages, I've discovered that a packsack was atteched on my back. When I've got aware of it I began to hear a creepy voice whispering that not to deal with it, just go on - I've forget immediately the whole incident. This repeated for days until I've reached a point to I started to be afraid and began to condition my consciousness for the next time.

When this accident was repeated a few days later I was more than ready, got very angry and grabbed back. For the first time I was able to examine teh supposed origin of my mysery. I knew what I was dealing with is an interpretation but I'm do my best to describe what I was seen. Well, it was like a great green worm with pink marvel melting away turning into snot within seconds.

An another time of grabbing back, I've lost my consciousness by some kind of "social trap": an old man materialized from the midst of nowhere, went to my kitchen and eat all the food he was found. At the same time he was constantly spoke to me, joked with me and have told many funny tales - until I lost my consciousness and found myself with him in a regular dream.

I don't know whether the packsack went away on his own, or we are together so far, but after app. one dozen of conscious encounter with it I come to a conclusion that its origin is stacionar by its very nature and don't travel at all. Someone/something simply installed an energy pack on my astral body. This connection later manifest as arms grabbing me from behind, but in reality it works like the silver cord: strech and connect my actual state of being with the stationer state where the center of consciousness of the hijacker is reside.

Of course, it's easy to be wise after the event, but I have an idea.
The solution may be simply that you should examine your astral body, and uninstall the attachment point. The trojan have to be installed at you neck/heart region.

I'm suppose we could do the same: signing someone by putting a bit of your energy field into his/her astral body, for the purpose to being able to monitor his/her activity. May be we can accomplish that by stretching our imaginery arms from the vibrational stage to our target. Please wise...


>>> upstream


P.S. Nay, I will catch you soon, it's for sure. And we will fight. (fading, evil laugher)

[Nay]

quote:P.S. Nay, I will catch you soon, it's for sure. And we will fight. (fading, evil laugher)

LOL..weeeeeeeeee my first stalker! []

I got to looking at Astral Dynamics and want to quote a bit more  that is after what you quoted Patrik..[^]

In case you are concerned about missing a chance of beneficial spirit contact: a simple way to test a spirit (to tell a good spirit from a bad spirit) is to politely but firmly ask it to leave and return another time when called on.  A good spirit will understand and leave immediately, and will return another time when called on.  A bad spirit will either point-blank refuse or will make up some excuse, e.g., that they know what's best for you.

The consensus among projectors is that these hitchhikers are attracted to fear.  They are most likely to appear at times when projectors become fearful or anxious during an OBE.  In some cases, you have only to think of a hitchhiker briefly and it will appear.  The wisest preventative measure is to control fear and not think about the hitchhiker in any way, not even for a moment.  Drive all thoughts of it out of mind and focus on the OBE, at all times.

Providing you are courageous enough, a good way of dealing with this situation is to bravely confront or attack it.  Do not listen to it no matter what it says.  Demand it leave immediately and threaten dire consequences if it does not obey.  If this does not work, create a baseball bat or other weapon of choice and use it to beat the manifestation until it leaves.  [:O]


For me to do the latter, I'd have to be pretty peeved....HEHE, so I'll just stick with ignoring it. [^]

Nay

[Kerrblur]

Patrik,

    You need ot listen to me closely.  The actions you took were perfect, absolutely perfect, now did you notice when he was getting mad when you were complementing him, that he was trying to tactics to try to scare you, he hasnt ever dragged me, but that might be because of when he had me, i posed a new tyactic on him, that he hadlearned and knows your trying to do it, THEREFORE he is coming up with his new scare tactic to try to show you nothing works.  Theres no damn feedback loop happening.  The cat most likely might be a cat that is attracted to your effectionate(SP?) energy.  Now you need to confront this man everytime and dont have any thoughts about fear, or anything cause like i said there masters of studying the mind.  

 He is dragging you to try to scare you, trying to show you he is powerful, but you cannot attack him, you must reealize this (which i know its easier to think it now than when your in the astral) that he is a big joke!! he is dragging you because he can read your thoughts and feed form your fear.

There is absulutely nothing he can do to hurt you, but you cannot fight him.  use your intuition on this one, you know im right, theres nothing else you can do but do what I said, even by what you had described to me about your experience,

__________________________________________________________________________
I tried to sound amused, he said "I am gonna hurt you!" and I responded "haha you do that!". After that he began sinking down through the floor, having me in his arms... I saw some room below... I began trying to invoke a master... kept saying it over and over again... But for some reason, one or two words each time became "silent", like I temporarily lost my voice._____________________________________________________________________________

Listen, he is getting worried, but, he won this battle, lol im serious if you wish for me to meet with you i will, ill meet with you at a set time, you message me on AIM or MSN messanger (aikido999@hotmail.com)  Ill find you in the astral and help, if you see me, thatll give you the courage to be nice to the f*ck.

Thewre the most intelligant entities, thats why there so rare, and most likely noone here has had these people on them but you and me.
You are doing good, just need to do it more, and instead of doing lightning bolts on him, Send him positive energy!!!! like when you heal someone, you laugh while doing it.

[upstream]

Please cut & paste experiences on cats to their right place @ astral experiences / cats & power-lines, before I'll get angry. Your experience is significant.

>>> upstream

[Nay]

Yikes upstream..it's ok [] I'm sure people will read the few lines about the cat on this thread just fine.

Now take a deep breath []....better?

*skips out, singing I feel pretty, oh so pretty..*

Nay

[Patrik]

jilola,
I didn't think I got very scared, but I did want to "escape" the situation. I guess next time I just have to try and stay calm, no matter what... which is easier said than done, but now I really want him gone!

Dream Cadet,
This entity grabs me around the stomache, and it sure doesn't feel "playful" Usually he makes sure I cannot move my arms, holding his arms around mine, so only thing I can do is move my legs.

upstream,
To be honest I don't think it's the same entity... I don't have any attachment points, at least I doubt it. The man usually attacks me from behind, but as you read I can get him to show up in front of me. When he attacks me in bed, he is standing next to bed, grabbing my arms in front.

Then the time I split this morning, as I wrote, he attacked me from behind... But when I started laughing at him, he changed positioning, and began to carry me. I am not sure "how" he carried me, but I think he had one arm on my back, and the other under my legs. My head was a bit over his head, and I was able to touch it without problem.

[upstream]

Order is the soul of everything.

DO IT NOW !!

[jilola]

quote:I didn't think I got very scared, but I did want to "escape" the situation. I guess next time I just have to try and stay calm, no matter what... which is easier said than done, but now I really want him gone!

Didn't say you were[]

Like kerrblur seems to agree with me, being friendly and positive toward the guy works and indeed is what I'd try to do myself.
The situation you describe remindsme of some cases where some entity would harass and hound me while out. The more I tried a) leave or b)force him to leave the more difficult it became. Initially I tended to get nervous and increasingly uncomfortable until I reached a threshold and started into the self-perpetuating spiral of fear-defense-more fear.
You just have to remember that you cannot be harmed and that the more positive you stay the less his delusions affect your perception and surroundings.
If nothing else, being unperturbed by the guys actions will make you seem like a formidable opponent and give him incentive to either stop playing silly buggers or leave you alone.

But whatever you deem appropriate is what you should do. The actions you take are an expression of your self at a given moment.

I just have difficulty in wrapping my brain around the ease at which anything out of the ordinary is deemed negative and an opponent to vanguish. What's with the race to blast everything away without even trying to understand what one is blasting at? Perhaps there is more to being in the astral than just having fun exploring?

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Patrik]

Kerrblur,
Thanks once again, I really hope you are right. I was a little worried that perhaps my attempt to shot "lightnings" on him made him realize my bluff, and now will be even harder to get rid of.

But one thing is certain, he did NOT get happy when I acted all nice and friendly Out of all times he has attacked me, this is by far the best result I have gotten in causing a serious response out of him.

I am also glad you don't think the cat issue is associated to this, I really like the cat, would hate it to be part of something negative.

Thanks.