Horrible experience... Too terrified to go back? Any help would be appreciated!

[Valkry]

Hello everyone.

My name is Tiffany, I'm 20 years old and I recently started to practice lucid dreaming and astral projection... I have always been interested in the occult, from a very young age, but only recently started attempting to lucid dream and astral project, and I have been having enormous success. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but I seem to have a real gift and talent for it. I started really training last week, and since then I have had an OBE or lucid dream virtually every night, sometimes up to three in one night!  I know this sounds naive, but I know this is my calling. I have never felt as alive or passionate about something in my entire life. This is something that I both excel at and love doing. 

Thus, I require your aid.

Last night I went to bed at around 10 PM. I experienced my first lucid dream at 1:30, and I quickly managed to turn it into an OBE. It was wonderful. At 2:30 I had my second lucid dream/OBE. Its a 7 (I am a 7 Life Path) day for me in numerology, so this is expected. (Side note: I've never managed to project from the trance state, I have a talent with lucid dreaming so I use that talent to procure OBEs, I will practice in trance every day though.).

At around 3:30 AM, though, something horrible happened. I was in my body, body fully asleep, mind fully awake. I was preparing for another OBE, I could tell I was ready because of the light patterns in between my eyelids (I rarely get strong vibrations and go off of the light patterns instead). I attempted to float out, but only got about a metre. Then I panicked. There was someone in the room with me. She spoke, and I heard the voice outside my head as clear as day. She said "I'll know when you're ready" or something like that. Anyway, I don't like when there are astral entities in the room with me. I have had problems with demons now for a couple years (my doctors call this schizophrenia with Borderline personality disorder), and I'm now trying to expel them, but they seem to be attracted to me for some reason? Anyway, I was suddenly locked in my body - paralyzed. I could see her form coming over... she grabbed onto my wrist - and this was so real. I felt it. I could feel her clammy, dead hand around my wrist as though it had happened in the physical realm. I stress, I was NOT lucid dreaming, or dreaming, I was in my body, 100% aware, ready to project, but unable to. Then she started touching my body and then she told me she was going to bind another demon to me, or something along those lines. She kept saying "Preparing the ritual" and she started doing all these weird occult-like symbols in light on my stomach. It was so terrifying! I have never been more afraid in my life! I was trying to beg her to stop, but I couldn't move my mouth, I tried to teleport out of there, to my boyfriend's house, but it didn't work, I tried to sink into the bed to escape, but I could only get a few inches. Eventually I managed to wake up out of fear. It was such a vivid experience. I woke up crying "PLEASE STOP, NO I BEG YOU" aloud at the top of my lungs. I could still feel her presence in the room with me when I woke up, which is rare because I'm on antipsychotics now to counteract the presences I used to feel at night all the time. Eventually, though, it subsided.

All night I had to work really hard at NOT having a lucid dream, lol. My mind automatically brings lucidity to my dreams as of a week ago, and all early this morning I kept having false awakenings because I would try to wake myself up before I could dream... I was too afraid to have another OBE or lucid dream, I was afraid she would be back, and the last thing I need is another demon feeding off my energy. Just a couple days ago another demon came to me when I projected, and tried to have sex with me of all things! Again, I had to force myself to awaken, rather than enjoying an OBE. Its most scary and irksome and I'd really appreciate any aid in warding off these terrifying nuisances? I know you're supposed to use willpower but... I tried my absolute hardest and I didn't have any results, aside from waking up... I know its a good thing that I woke up, but I don't want to be destroying every chance at an OBE I have just because of these lower realm pests. I would most appreciate any advice.

Thank you very much,

Tiff

[CFTraveler]

Hi Tiffany.
You most probably had a Dweller on the Threshold experience.  This is not a demon, demons rarely mess with humans.
A dweller is one of a few types of entities, all aspects of self.

One is simply your halfway projected energy body (or expanding energy body) which causes a fear feedback loop, and your thoughts give it form.  In other words, you started to project, and your energy body expanded around you.  Your physical brain detected this energy and automatically reacted as if it were a stranger, since your bedroom is your personal space.  This reaction sent your feelings to your energy, and gave it a scary menacing form/feeling.  This forms a feedback loop that only ends when you wake up completely (and reintegrate in-body) or go towards your projected double (a scary proposition, but one that works, from experience).  If you do #2 you will integrate out of body and can continue your projection.  You may feel a little disoriented at first, but if you get away from your physical body asap you'll be able to achieve the RTZ (etheric) projection.

The second type of self aspect is the guardian (which also sounds like) which will keep you from projecting.  It may symbolize your subconscious fear, or it could be a higher aspect of yourself that knows you are not ready to do this and it's keeping you from doing it.

The third type of dweller is a teaching self aspect- it knows that fear is not good to have in projection, and it may teach you about fear, if you are projecting, consciously or spontaneously.

Negative experiences are par for the course in projection, but not all negative experiences are caused by negative entities.
Also, there are many low-order negative entities that are troublesome (but not dangerous, they are just scary) that are not demons.  When you encounter negative entities, they are usually of this kind.
Demons are rare, and don't really mess with humans, unless there is some compelling reason that is beyond the scope of this post.

So try to not be afraid, because fear is the food that attracts the negative ones, and the dweller is also possibly trying to teach you a lesson about fear, and how to get rid of it.

[Valkry]

Thanks so much for your response!

I'm so glad to know that these aren't demons I've been dealing with. That makes me a feel a lot more confident.

So I have to try to move towards the dweller, rather than fearing away from it? Its definitely easier said than done, but I'll try to remember this if it happens again (hopefully not). So strange how this creature could have been an aspect of myself... It was so terrifying and it seemed so foreign, and definitely outside of myself. I do understand what you are saying though. I do feel as though I am indeed ready for astral projection, though yes, I admit I may have been subconsciously afraid (though certainly not consciously), considering the experiences I have had with what I thought were demons (but am now ecstatic to know likely aren't!  ) for the past couple years. I was afraid I would encounter them there, and up until reading this post, I thought I just had.

If it was actually just a lower-realm entity, I draw quite a bit of comfort from that as well, for I have read that yes, they are quite harmless and thank you for confirming that. 
If it is a negative entity, do you have any advice on how I could, somehow, banish it from my presence? I tried to teleport away from it, but that was ineffective. I was completely paralyzed.  I would like to know in case in future I have encounters with them.

I am so relieved to know I am not dealing with demons, that has completely rekindled my desire to practice every night, including tonight. Hopefully I'll be out again soon! 

Thanks for your help!

[CFTraveler]

If you want to take precautions, I would suggest something like taking a salt bath or a shower, blessing your area, that type of thing.   The important thing is that you feel safe, so you don't project this fear to your projected energy.

[T.L.]

I don't believe in demons, ergo they don't exist. Your expectations and beliefs (like your beliefs that demons exist) will mold your experiences. Out of body experiences are not just about what you experience while out, but also about your beliefs and experiences in your daily life. If a person does not have a strong will, or even has a miniscule belief he or she will fail in doing something you can be assured they will fail in most everything related to projection (and possibly in physical life as well). This post does not pertain specifically to you, just to people in general.

It takes a strong will to project, and a even stronger will to guide the experience without negativity or fear. I think sometimes people underestimate just how powerful an experience projections are, and often come into negative experiences. It's funny I have had more experiences than I can count, and have not had even one negative experience with 'entities'. Which goes to show me that beliefs mold a lot of other projectors' experiences.  When you believe in something like religion, well obviously you will have some negative experiences as you believe in 'evil'.

I think the most negative thing I have happened to me in an experience is falling from great heights all the way until I hit the ground, but I just call that fun. If you keep having those kinds of experience, you would probably benefit from really exploring your ideas about the afterlife, and perhaps practice thought control as even a stray thought in a projection will have an immediate action. Good luck.

[angelout]

I can really relate to your fear level, I must however disagree, there most sertainly are demons. I am a born again Christian myself, but I also have lucid dreams and OBE's. I just know how scarey it can be, that terror, what goes on in your soul. Commit your travels to Christ, if He wants you to travel you will, but safely. Its all about power, but its can also be about your soul, keep yours safe, this isnt childs play.

[CFTraveler]

I can really relate to your fear level, I must however disagree, there most sertainly are demons. I am a born again Christian myself, but I also have lucid dreams and OBE's. I just know how scarey it can be, that terror, what goes on in your soul. Commit your travels to Christ, if He wants you to travel you will, but safely. Its all about power, but its can also be about your soul, keep yours safe, this isnt childs play.

I didn't say there are no demons.  I said that demons are relatively scarce and rarely mess with people, like lower astral wildlife do.  I agree that God wants you to travel freely and asking for protection is very effective, but please don't instill fear where there doesn't need to be.

[The Present Moment]

I don't have an opinion on whether negs, demons, or other presences are real or products of our mind. What I have always done when one shows up is to project a positive energy towards them and myself. This is easier said than done when you feel fear like that.

Are these experiences happening during the day, or only at night?

[T.L.]

I didn't say there are no demons.

CFTraveler I think angelout is referring to what I said, and I did say they do not exist. By that I mean demons are just man made ideas, rather than being actual creature entities that exist to wreak evil havoc on the innocent... This is a view I have had for a while even before I began to have out of body experiences. Since I have had countless experiences now and still have yet to come into contact with 'demons' or any negative entities for that matter, it strengthens my viewpoint. My view being fear is what is creating these things some of you are coming into contact with. Whether you realize it or not fear is not only conscious level but it is a subconscious thing as well, and even the slightest subconscious thought will have a huge reaction in an obe.

It's not only fear initiating these kinds of things that skew people's opinions and memories of the event, but it is also the projectors opinions and bias that comes through when explaining an experience. For instance if I had a projection, seen some guy and he talked to me for a bit and perhaps made some suggestions... when I recount the experience later I will say just that. Then there are those under the same exact circumstances will say it was a 'guide', yet others will say 'guardian angel' and others still will say it was an 'angel'. Religion, beliefs and bias really play a role in projections, if you are religious or have other certain opinions whether you like it or not it will interrupt or come through in your experience.

I am sure if I was religious and believed in such a thing as heaven or hell I am sure I would have some overly ecstatic/emotional experiences, and or some horrifying experiences. I myself have bias' and opinions that come through in my projections but I try harder than most to make sure I do not let that interfere with my descriptions of what actually took place.

[Steel Hawk]

Traveler is technically correct. But, I'm PARANOID!

You know you can probably walk through a city your entire physical life with nothing bad happening to you. But there are people who aren't so lucky.

You have to be careful. I've dealt with the dweller but this seems a bit different. Drawing on your stomach in light. Your dantian is located in your stomach just below your navel. This is where the majority of our spiritual energy resides.  Spirits can be focused to a particular point using symbols.

I've never heard theory (other than fluff) on how to bind a spirit to a human, I think I have something some where that describes performing it on a cat.

What you say seems to read true with me. The best place to plop a spirit would be where it can get the most energy for it's existence. And on a human I would put it on the abdomen chakra / dantian. I think that's metaphysically sound.

Writing in light is something written quite a bit about, even in Modern Magick - you know draw a pentragram of blue light on fire with your finger tip for protection. Essentially using spiritual energy to create a symbol -- using the same technique for a binding would make sense.

Normally in physical reality if you wanted a very good bind you would use blood, at least I would (I've never hurt anything other than myself -- so lets just say I haven't done that a lot). You want to bind a spirit to you? Sure just take it's symbol (sigil) think of it to an extreme level of focus and in your own blood draw just below your navel. You'd be saying "Hey you! Look food! Come get it anytime you want!"

I think what you described is the same operation but much more advanced an in the astral.

I don't want to freak you out, but everything you said makes perfect sense and I haven't read about it in any books. Hope I'm wrong.

I can make a lot of speculations as to why someone would do this to you, I'd guess based on your "disorders" you have a lot of magickal energy that you radiate out -- probably giving you a higher chance in having this happen than average Joe.

I'm biased though - I do believe in demons aka spiritual beings with bad intentions. I use to be in a dark place though, where I didn't care what the consequences were, if I had to use them to get what I wanted I did. So later in life I've had some close calls with them.

Normally I'd never make a post like this, but I feel like I read your story and thought "Wow! That is how you'd do that!". Again, I apologize if I scare you or some how make it worse for you. I hope you continue to explore without fear, if you want advice on protection contact via email (check my profile).

Anyway... Not trying to start a flame war just my personal take which may or may not be flawed.

[kurtykurt42]

You have to be careful. I've dealt with the dweller but this seems a bit different. Drawing on your stomach in light. Your dantian is located in your stomach just below your navel. This is where the majority of our spiritual energy resides.  Spirits can be focused to a particular point using symbols.

I developed a thought based energy program that cloaks my lower three primary energy centers. My spiritual teacher projected and saw me and thought that I was sick because all he could see was my heart chakra and up. He then was surprised to find that I have the ability to cloak (make invisible) my primary energy centers, so that even he can't see / feel them. 

[T.L.]

Your dantian is located in your stomach just below your navel. This is where the majority of our spiritual energy resides.

No offense, but I'm still not convinced on the whole energy centers/chakra thing. The reason being is I have yet to verify this for myself. When Im out and look at people for the most part they look as they are when I see them in the physical. Short of one experience where I was able to view myself (energy self) as a sort of weird blue creature with white lines..etc. This doesn't really prove anything to me though, because I do not like making assumptions as to what I was looking at until I know for sure. Anyway, other than that some interesting thoughts.

[Valkry]

Well I projected twice this morning, and actually was blessed with meeting my spirit guide (different than the one I had a few years ago.  ) but she was wonderful and I felt very safe.

I'm still hoping the entity I encountered was a dweller, because I'm going to project and swoop at it next time, or will it to disappear, or (sounds corny but I heard it works) send it all the love I can muster out of my heart chakra, and see what happens. I have a plan to work with a dweller, but not with a negative entity as Steel Hawk suggests. 

If its a negative entity, I'm not sure what I'll do. I'm going to try creating a protective shield around me again (it worked for this morning) and my boyfriend and I are going to devise a ritual to ward them away, but if anyone has any more suggestions on what I can do to ward away negative entities I would really appreciate it.

I had some more run ins with some pests in a lucid dream I experienced last night, and it was annoying, tried and failed to banish them, but I made the best out of it and wasn't afraid.

[SkepticBoy]

Could these negative entities be a some kind of bi-product of your medication? if I may say so.

[Valkry]

Oh no, I definitely don't think so. I only became capable of projection once my medications kicked it, the illnesses are nearly crippling without them. I'm on an anti-depressant and two kinds of anti-psychotics and they have been so helpful. The doctor said it would take about 5 weeks before they reached their full potential, and within that time span I have began to project every night without fail, often multiple times in a night. This is key: If I miss a dose, I am unable to sleep, and thus unable to project. I think they have very much been beneficial to me in controlling the voices/presences/"possessed" behaviour, as well as having frequent OBEs.

[Steel Hawk]

I'm still not convinced on the whole energy centers/chakra thing. The reason being is I have yet to verify this for myself.

Being a skeptic is good no doubt. I have no idea what crept in over the years, I most likely do have some erroneous beliefs. But I'm past that. I have working theories that work (at least for me anyway) so until something can no longer be deal with practically or theoretically I continue with my theories that work, because well they work. The theory of relativity may have some flawed points, but until it fails there's no reason not to use it. (Not that my theories are anywhere near that level! Jesh!)

Oh and who knows what it is (this being). Is it a subconscious fear? The imagination? A dweller? A demon? We can only make an educated guess. I just prefer the be prepared approach.

You know you hear a loud unusual noise when you're asleep at night, it's probably nothing, but I assume it's someone breaking in trying to kill me and arm myself when investigating the problem. Sure I could just go down and see what it was (probably nothing) and not be paranoid, but if there ever was a real threat I'd be caught with my pants down. It's what keeps me alive, I take the same attitude towards the astral -- don't get caught with your pants down, it's probably nothing. This probably inhibits my progress as I'm constantly looking over my shoulder but ah whatever maybe one day I won't care anymore :S

[kurtykurt42]

You need to be a skeptic and open-minded or else you will never find the truth.

I'm on an anti-depressant and two kinds of anti-psychotics and they have been so helpful. The doctor said it would take about 5 weeks before they reached their full potential, and within that time span I have began to project every night without fail, often multiple times in a night. This is key: If I miss a dose, I am unable to sleep, and thus unable to project. I think they have very much been beneficial to me in controlling the voices/presences/"possessed" behaviour, as well as having frequent OBEs.

Anti-depressants and two kinds of anti-psychotics!? I'm pretty sure that those medications won't help you too much in the long run.

[ka0s]

I read through this entire post and you said that you would not be able to project without the medications. I have been on several medications before that increased my potential at astral projecting--But I learned to part from them to a degree to continue my exploring. If your ever in the situation again. Shout for your guide or just SHOUT out loud. Sometimes that is even enough to ground you in your experience/and or change the experience itself. atleast for me. i have also read about the dweller but have mixed feelings on it since I have never encountered it myself. I would be concerned and take precautions regarding your particular situation .

[Valkry]

Anti-depressants and two kinds of anti-psychotics!? I'm pretty sure that those medications won't help you too much in the long run.

Why not?

Not trying to be patronizing, just genuinely curious.

They've helped me a lot thus far. I no longer have racing thoughts, hear voices, see things, act unpredictably, etc. My depression has subsided greatly since starting astral projection, and I've only been able to do it since I've been on these meds. I take two types of anti-psychotics yes, but the one is at a very, very low dose and I just use it to help me sleep... I don't understand how these medications could be unhelpful? I've tried going off them 2 times in the past 2 months and have ended up in the hospital both times...  I can't really function without them.

[TheGreatProvider]

Id say that it is your own fear striking you. You should find out what makes you afraid.
when you say that you really love astral projektion then theres no doubt that it is what you should do it.
Master it and evolve as much as you can. if you feel that you were ment to astral project then the greater will help you achive what you are looking for. when that woman is telling you that she waits untill you are ready could mean that you need to get rid of your fear so that you can learn more beautiful things from the thing you love.
Talk to your heart and you will find your solution.

[Berserk]

If you are on anti-depressants and 2 anti-psychotics, is it safe for you attempt astral exploration, given that schizophrenics routinely encounter demonic illusions?  Only a psychiatrist is competent to answer such a question.  I am not presuming that you are schizophrenic, but this issue is tough because of psychiatrists generally dismiss astral encounters as illusory.  I wish you had access to a psychiatrist who is open to astral travel.  I still think you should consult your psychiatrist or prescribing professional before resuming astral travel. I am worried about an unintentional catalyzing of psychopathology. 

Don

[FinalTurisma]

you are in control.

[Valkry]

If you are on anti-depressants and 2 anti-psychotics, is it safe for you attempt astral exploration, given that schizophrenics routinely encounter demonic illusions?  Only a psychiatrist is competent to answer such a question.  I am not presuming that you are schizophrenic, but this issue is tough because of psychiatrists generally dismiss astral encounters as illusory.  I wish you had access to a psychiatrist who is open to astral travel.  I still think you should consult your psychiatrist or prescribing professional before resuming astral travel. I am worried about an unintentional catalyzing of psychopathology. 

Don

I have been diagnosed with Schizophrenia and Borderline Personality Disorder, but have been doing wonderfully on medication.

My psychiatrist is very closed to the idea of astral travel, so turning to him isn't really an option. I have been consciously astral traveling every night for awhile now, and most of my experiences have been positive ones, with a couple of very negative encounters... which I thought was to be expected with astral projection; good and bad voyages.

I know that with my illnesses there is a likely a significantly higher risk of encountering negatives, so I am taking preventative steps, as well as learning to overcome the fear I have of them.

[thirdeye26]

I am no expert; but I firmly believe that demons and negative entities cannot approach you against your will. They can bully you only if you are afraid of them. Why not try some psychic self-defense? Surround yourself with  bright white light. Tell yourself firmly that you are well protected. If they are demons, that should keep them away.

Now, they could be products of your own negative emotions and thought patterns, the end product of all your lives on earth; and in that case, you need to do a lot of soul work, which includes eliminating negative thought patterns and fears.

Hope this helps!

[Enix]

Hi valkry
Sorry to here of your schizophrenia,  I had a mental breakdown in October and The hospital is a very scary place. So I can understand your scared to get off medication. I'm curious if you felt as if other people in the hospital were having an  effect on your thoughts. I felt like my thoughts were being interfered with by others.  I went in there super sensitive and confused (though I was getting better on my own.) To a depressing atmosphere with others who were overly sensitive, confused, angry, anxious, scared and not to mention a staff that thinks your crazy. I'm sure the atmosphere takes on a mind of its own as well.

      After a few days I was injected with medication which of course hit me like a ton of bricks, Everyone has to listen to group therapy sessions while heavily medicated. Your expected to reply to answers if you ever want to leave the hospitable.

Sessions are geared towards being a normal citizen living a safe, simple and boring life.  Half the time the employees can't understand patients answers because there's only one right answer to the question asked. Medication makes the patients tired,concentrating makes patients tired, so I'm guessing going to a session and falling asleep afterwords has a somewhat hypnotic affect.

      I felt such weird energy and emotions, I had strange thoughts that didn't feel like mine and heard voices. I swear my thoughts were interconnected with other peoples actions and words at times which I know sounds strange. Due to being controlled I think I developed some weird sense of mind control for awhile. I noticed I was too analytical too. I know the whole experience integrated some paranoia within me after an hour or two of being there which of course didn't help.

Personally I got off the medication right away and have been just fine.  I would suggest trying to get off it after a few months of being stable but that's just my personal opinion cause I don't trust the stuff. Maybe try practicing yoga and see a witchdoctor, Shaman, Reiki Practitioner or possibly all three. Otherwise the doctor will do the easy and profitable thing to do and keep you on meds. Our Health Care system would probably consider the alternatives crazy.

I would also suggest being with someone with mutual trust. I think my family with there constant questions played a partial factor in the breakdown itself. For certain the hospital visit since my dad who's a pastor came at me with a cross and the name of Jesus. I saw this as a challenge looked deep into his eyes used some kind of black magic by speaking intensely into his eyes and pushing back energetically with one of my hands. He freaked out and called the cops. Anyway its a difficult time, I know certain things I was experiencing prior to this was a reality and some was confusion. I felt like I had no control and wanted it to end. With the right help and atmosphere I think I could have came out of my strange alternative state of consciousness a lot smoother than the hospitable though.