A Question from a New OBE'er

[Jeff_Mash]

I personally haven't, although when I am in the astral, I do feel a kind of "at home" feeling.  Almost like a fish being placed back into the water after being extracted for an unknown period of time.

Perhaps you are hungering for knowledge regarding a past life experience, since you mention that you feel like you're missing a huge part of your life.  I have never had this feeling, but the more I project, the more I learn about myself, and my surroundings.  


Keep smiling,

Jeff Mash, Founder and Editor
MyJokeMail.com - Jokes and Humor
http://myjokemail.com

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Chamos:

Never forget that the worlds around you spin on their own axsis, not yours.

Do they? Everything around you is perceived subjectively.  So we can say that the worlds spin around our very own axis. It is just that they spin not only around one axis and they spin on every axis in a different way.


***Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.***

[Chamos]

Technically, density, if the worlds all spun on your own axsis then alot of things in life would be very different. You can perceive the worlds as spinning on your axsis but in reality they have their very own axsises, laws, rules, forms, shapes. Though in some ways, at least in some people's point of veiws, the worlds might spin on their axsis, though it would be highly selfish of them, because everyone in the worlds around you all accumulate to that particular world's axsis thus making it a completely original axsis all it's own.

Leslie-Ann Cho

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Chamos:
Technically, density, if the worlds all spun on your own axsis then alot of things in life would be very different. You can perceive the worlds as spinning on your axsis but in reality they have their very own axsises, laws, rules, forms, shapes. Though in some ways, at least in some people's point of veiws, the worlds might spin on their axsis, though it would be highly selfish of them, because everyone in the worlds around you all accumulate to that particular world's axsis thus making it a completely original axsis all it's own.

Leslie-Ann Cho

On the first glance it might appear selfish but it is not. All "bad" and "selfish" behaviour ultimately results in hurting yourself (most would call that karma).

Look at a mentally disordered person! How do you know it is him who is mentally ill and not you? It is that everybody thinks this way, so you think it too. Still it could be you instead of him who is not right in the head.

There can be absolutely no proof that the world is just so how we think it is. So we can say that the world only exists in our heads.

What we think about the world changes rapidly. It did so the past 3000 years and it will likely go on like that. 500 years ago they would have called you a heretic for saying the Earth was moving round the Sun and not vice versa. This supports only everything exist only in our minds. We cannot have any significant evidence. We can never know the truth.

You cannot even prove that I do exist. Even if I were standing right before your eyes, you could not prove it. There would always be the possibility of an illusion or an phenomenon of other kind. It could also be a special kind of "tape" you were watching. A tape that has not 90 minutes capacity but 80-120 years. Try to prove that it is not so.

Thoughts like these do not make you selfish.


***Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.***

[clandestino]

hi Chamos, can you tell us a bit more about the longing that you have felt, and why astral projection might give you the answers ?

[Chamos]

I will have a bit of trouble explaining it, because it's a feeling that I've never been really able to pin down rather than a thought, oppinion or veiw that I've created and analyzed over and over, but it's really this feeling that all the time, even just when I'm breathing, I want to be -somewhere- I can't say where because I don't really know but I do know that I can't seem to find where my heart cries out to. And when I just sit and do things, like type, write or homework, I feel this tug that calls me, this emptiness that longs to be filled. Like I was complete, whole, -full- before something happened and now I'm only half here, not even half here.

I sometimes just start crying, I actually had to go to the psychiatrist for that one cause mom found out. The doc just said I was suffering from the divorce my parents went through but in all actuallity if they want a divorce let them! It's not my life but their's and I can't be selfish if they want something else, besides, I'm happy with their new girl/boy friends. They're cool, well, except mom's, he doesn't even put on a shirt if my friends and I visit mom, plus his house feels like a tiny closet full of negativity, but I'm babbling so I'll cut it out.

Anyway, I've never felt like I belonged here, like the place that my heart cried out for was my real home, the place where I belonged, and not here. I've always felt like that, so when I found out that I could access my akashic records through astral projection I started practicing, maybe my answer is in the past? maybe I'll never find it until the future, that's why I'm focusing on astral projection to find out why I feel this way.

Leslie-Ann Cho

Never forget that the worlds around you spin on their own axsis, not yours.

You yearn for something you do not know, search for something just beyond your thoughts, long to return to a land you've never been to, and need something you've never heard of. Knowledge will fill that gap, as soon as you realize that knowledge comes after emotion and you need both to lay the foundations of your world.

[Tom]

Of course I wanted astral projection before I knew what it was or that it existed. My idea was to create a machine to separate my consciousness from my body and store it in a computer of some sort. Back then there weren't really computers the way computers are today. It was pain that drove me to think that way. I changed my mind. It is not a physical device but astral projection which is my goal. It is not pain driving me but the pursuit of pleasure. There is no gradual transition between avoiding pain and seeking pleasure. It is the act of will. It is a decision. Do it now if you know what is good for you and care for the good.

As for the idea of an axis, it is not the way things work. Sure, all objects have their own axis which spin. That is unimportant. The universe is limitless so every point is the center of the universe. That includes me. I am the center of the universe and all the universe surrounds me. My selfish needs and wants are mine. Selfish? Sure. I am a self with needs and wants. People who do not attend to their needs and wants just make work for other people. People cannot abandon their own goals and purposes to other people to accomplish, because purpose cannot be given away.

Some day I will be as wise as Ayn Rand. The book "Atlas Shrugged" says everything I never learned the words for.

[density]

quote:Originally posted by Tom:
Of course I wanted astral projection before I knew what it was or that it existed. My idea was to create a machine to separate my consciousness from my body and store it in a computer of some sort. Back then there weren't really computers the way computers are today. It was pain that drove me to think that way. I changed my mind. It is not a physical device but astral projection which is my goal. It is not pain driving me but the pursuit of pleasure. There is no gradual transition between avoiding pain and seeking pleasure. It is the act of will. It is a decision. Do it now if you know what is good for you and care for the good.

Do you remember the film "Tron". They dematerialized an Orange and it appeared then on the Computerscreen. The next was a Programmer who became a "Program" in the computer system. The idea of OBEs is old. I once read in a Nostradamus book that he used a kind of machine or method to see into the future. He in China for instance, many people know the Chinese word for "OBE". The idea of having an OBE is frequently used in films and novels. Even Chinese legends and fairy tales talk about OBEs.

quote:

As for the idea of an axis, it is not the way things work. Sure, all objects have their own axis which spin. That is unimportant. The universe is limitless so every point is the center of the universe. That includes me. I am the center of the universe and all the universe surrounds me. My selfish needs and wants are mine. Selfish? Sure. I am a self with needs and wants. People who do not attend to their needs and wants just make work for other people. People cannot abandon their own goals and purposes to other people to accomplish, because purpose cannot be given away.

Perfectly right! I was once told a story about a woman that gave her own eye to save her husband eye. The woman was marked for the rest of her life. Once beautiful and adorable she became ugly. Eventually her husband left her for another woman.

How can a person be loved if he does not love himself?

Chamos,. somehow I think your view is a little pessimistic. Of course, many of us are longing for something. Perhaps it is the truth we are after or it is the excitement. However, to say that we do not "belong" here cannot be true. Whatever we do we cannot leave this world, because it would still exist in our memories. The only way to do that is amnesia. And even then it cannot not cease to exist in our minds as it would stay subconsciously forever. Even an OBE is no way of escape. The physical world will always be part of us.

I know that kind of feeling. The feeling of not belonging to this world. I had it before. Maybe on bad days it might return, as it did before. But when I think about it I know it is a deception. The only reason you fell so is that the world of your imagination is much better and it makes no sense that the real world is not like that. I know step that is needed to make this a perfect world is not a big one, but it is one that everybody must do at the same time. Unfortunately, when we do the step, they do not do it. When they do it we are too angry with them because they did not do it last time.

Everything changes when you start to imagine the Universal Centre is you. You just have to dare it.




***Minds are like parachutes. They only work when they are open.***

[Chamos]

density: my longing isn't a veiw or oppinion. It's a feeling I've had since preschool when I was afraid of being alone for fear that my nightmares would come true and I'd find everyone all happy around me, ignoring me, while I disappear. (ack, I tend to remember alot of my dreams, it interupts my schooling alot) Also, it's a feeling that I don't belong. Not me saying that I don't belong here because I'm unhappy. I'm happy here cause it's fun and I can do my school work with out being worried about being teased daily like in intermediate. I'm not saying that I want to use astral projection to "escape" as I just want to use it to find out what happened in my past lives to see if that's why I feel this way. Anyway, I don't know why the whole thing about the world's axsis got so big because it was a quote I wrote a couple of years ago to convince myself that life in intermediate school wasn't so bad because the people who made other's lives miserable would find them selves as the only ones "out of the loop" so to put it.

Leslie-Ann Cho

Fate brought you two together, Destiny decreed you love another.

Never forget that the worlds around you spin on their own axsis, not yours.

You yearn for something you do not know, search for something just beyond your thoughts, long to return to a land you've never been to, and need something you've never heard of. Knowledge will fill that gap, as soon as you realize that knowledge comes after emotion and you need both to lay the foundations of your world.

[clandestino]

ha ha...I got a bit confused about everyone responding about the world's axis too !!

That's no good to hear about getting teased at school - glad that you're happier where you are now. I'm no counsellor or anything, but I was teased a bit at school too, and I reckon I came out a tougher person after it.

Anyway, whether or not you get the answer to your question through studying astral projection, who knows...but i'm sure you'll meet a fair few interesting people and their opinions on these notice boards !
Mark

[Tracy]

Chamos,

  This is my first time replying to the forums but I can relate to longing for something that is AP related without even knowing that AP was even possible.  Through most of my life I could feel my astral form inside this physical body and had a longing to be free from it but knowing that can only be achieved by actual physical death.  At times I could  (split concienceness?) see myself from above myself looking down as my other half  (physical) would be doing something physical such as watching a movie.  I finally got tired of just accepting this as all my astral could do and dove into the research which lead me to obe's.  I would say that it is very good that you are listening to yourself and are listening to your heart.  Please do not get discouraged about needing to find the answers , you are not alone.  Of the experiences that I have been having, there is a two fold.  You have to be open to finding the answers ,and you have to be patient in letting the answers come to you  in time.  This second part is the hardest, be patient.

best wishes,

Tracy

[Tom]

The physical body is below the etheric body, which is below the astral. The astral body is below the mental body. The astral body is the source of emotions, while the mental body above it and governing it is the source of thought. If you have a feeling you can govern your body with it. Negative emotions cause harm to the body and positive emotions make is stronger. You have a mental body with which you can choose between the two. You can decide how to feel. Feelings should not be allowed to rule the mind and cannot do so unless the mind gives up its right to rule the feelings. If you have given your feelings or your physical body the right to rule over your mind, you can use your mind still to choose to put the lower bodies in their proper places.

[Tracy]

Tom,

So you are saying that the astral body-(emotion) is stronger than the mental body -(thought)?  I think that feelings can be a way the mind expresses unknown emotions that  the physical is not aware of.  You are right that feelings should not be allowed to rule the mind, but the mind should be sensitive to what the emotional is trying to say.  You can learn a lot by listening to your emotional side, learn more than you ever could realize.

best wishes,

Tracy

[Tom]

Nowhere did I say that the mind is stronger than the emotions. I said that the mind must rule over the emotions. The muscles are more powerful than the nerves in terms of the energy they release, but unless the nerves are functioning smoothly under the guidance of the mind their strength is likely to cause harm. It is still the mind which makes choices and governs the body. I stated that emotions have value, in that positive emotions can help strengthen the body. They can also help summarize experiences and pre-process them for the mind. I know that well enough, but I will not place feelings of physical or emotional nature above the mind. See the difference?

[Tracy]

ahhh, yes I  understand what you are saying.  I was uncertain about your meaning on the astral body being below the mental body.  But I'm OK now.

[Tom]

Are you also okay with the idea of choosing how to feel about and respond to situations in your life? Are you willing to take responsibility for your power and the need to choose how to direct it?

[Tracy]

I am fine with choosing situations in my life and what my feelings are in those situations.  I do know that using wise decisions and understanding the emotions envolved in these decisions should be considered.  Listen to the feelings in the situation.      I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to power.

[Tom]

Power is the ability to do work, just like in a book on physics.

Haven't you seen the vague references in this thread to feelings without reasons? Haven't you thought that it sounded like refraining from making a choice to feel better, or even to believe it is possible? I did not even see references to information delivered by those feelings.

[Tracy]

Yes, I understand that it might be better not to make a decision because the effect could be negative to others.  Or to not make a certain choice because it would feel better not to. But  I do not think that a choice should be ignored because of emotion.  Some of the hardest decisions are made with the worst feelings attached to them.

[Tom]

I think you've lost me. It has been close for some time now. I may have misunderstood you. Now you've lost me for sure. What do you mean?

[Tracy]

Ok, OK  I know this discussion has been drawn out ,and I did understand you near the beginning.   Thank you for the info!  

Chamos,
    Sorry about the long discussion, I hope you some of your questions have been asked.

best wishes,

Tracy

[Chamos]

No prob, no prob at all. It was intersting to hear what you both had to say. And I do have some of my questions answered, not all but then again if I did there wouldn't be a reason to search.

Leslie-Ann Cho

[Chamos]

Has anyone here ever felt a longing for something or somewhere that they can't identify before learning about OBE's? Anyone ever felt like they were missing a huge part of their world? Or needed something they couldn't find? I have, and when I found out about AP I felt like I could search there for answers. But once again I must ask if they've ever felt a longing for something they don;t know before learning about AP or hearing about it from someone else.

Leslie-Ann Cho

Never forget that the worlds around you spin on their own axsis, not yours.

You yearn for something you do not know, search for something just beyond your thoughts, long to return to a land you've never been to, and need something you've never heard of. Knowledge will fill that gap, as soon as you realize that knowledge comes after emotion and you need both to lay the foundations of your world.