How does Roberts descriptions compare with Monroes

[Frank]

In the old mystical terminology the term "Astral" is the the equivalent of a single Focus number (don't ask me which one, but someone else may know). But these days the phrase, "the Astral" tends to be used as a collective term meaning any realm that is not Physical. Which is how I use the term.

In other words, when I say, "projecting within the Astral" I mean I could be on any Focus level (or plane). But to a traditional mystic, they would take it that I was projecting to one plane (or Focus level) in particular.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

I see.
In the traditional descriptions it is said that there are 7 planes with 7 subplanes within each.
The astral was the first one I think.

However, you could use the term astral in a collective sense like you say.

I have done some reading and the higher 'planes' above astral are really higher levels of consiousness rather than planes as such.

Douglas

[Adrian]

Greetings,

The Astral levels or sphere are actually the lowest vibrational levels,  collectively speaking, but of course have vibrational levels within them, which I suppose are analogous to the Monroe "focus" levels.

Above the Astral realms, which cannot be exceeded by Astral projection due to the density of the Astral body, are nine further spheres. In fact, the idea of spheres or realms is somewhat symbolic as everything is more like a vibrational continuum from the highest down to the lowest. The very lowest is the material, physical world which is still a vibrational level, and immediately above that, relatively speaking is Malkuth, the Astral planes.

When the residents of the Astral realms finally shed their Astral body - when material things no longer have any significance, then they continue in their pure Mental body in Spirit, and ascend according to vibration/ perfection.

There are various representations of these spheres, but the Kabbalistic representation is  the "Tree of Life" which is as follows:

Malkuth (the entire Astral sphere)
Yesod
Hod
Netzach
Tiphareth
Geburah
Gedulah
Binah
Chokmah
Kether

Malkuth, or the Astral planes, are the desire planes where Souls still have a material view of existence. In order to progress to the higher, and more beautiful spheres, Spirits have to arrive at the realisation that the materialism is an illusion, and then they can progress in the Spirit on the infinite path.

With kind regards,

Arian.

[Gandalf]

hmm,
it could be then that the 'focus 27' that monroe describes sounds like the highest or near the highest astral vibration/level.
People who hang around here probably stay until they're ready to shed their astral bodies and enter the mental level.

But even to reach this highest level of the astral seems like a major achievement.

Douglas

[Frank]

Gandalf: Focus 27 is not really the highest. It's just that this is the first of the regions populated by people who are fully aware they are dead and fully aware of where they are (dead and proud of it, as I say).

I was contacted by a guide this morning, as it happens, in answer to the enquiry I put out a few days ago. He was telling me of a Focus 45 or what he called "alien regions".

I remember listening avidly to what this chap was telling me. Afterwards I was mulling over what he'd told me, as it was so fantastic and so out of this world, and there's this voice in the back of my mind telling me to get up and make notes. And I thought, yeah, I'll do it in a minute. But I went and fell asleep.  So most of the valuable info has gone from my mind.

Yours,
Frank

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf:
hmm,
it could be then that the 'focus 27' that monroe describes sounds like the highest or near the highest astral vibration/level.
People who hang around here probably stay until they're ready to shed their astral bodies and enter the mental level.

But even to reach this highest level of the astral seems like a major achievement.

Douglas

For many people I would say that reaching planes above the astral is a major achievement. Most people are SO caught up in materialism that I think it will be hard for them to move beyond it. The astral seems to be closely tied to the physical so it can give you pretty much any kind of material thing that you want. This can lead to loops that Frank has descibed for us in his lessons with his guide. But maybe these loops are good, as hopefully these people that are caught in them will eventually realize what is going on and be able to see beyond their materialism.

The subject of astral projection, OBEs, and anything to do with other planes can be somewhat confusing, especially at first. There is no set terminology for these things, and it can be very difficult to describe nonphysical things in languages that are so physical. There are the traditional mystic terms that many use, but then there are those that wish to remove their research from the "occult" and base it on their own experiences in a more scientific manner. In doing so they come up with their own terms. Then there are those that use terms from both areas in a casual way. So one word could be taken several different ways, such as astral. So it takes a little reading to understand how a person is using a word. From what I have read, authors use different words but are all describing pretty much the same thing. In a way I think this is good as it shows that even though people have approached astral travel from different points they seem to always find the same basic structure.

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by Gandalf:

I have done some reading and the higher 'planes' above astral are really higher levels of consiousness rather than planes as such.

Douglas

Basically, the modern way to think of Astral planes is in terms of focal points of consciousness. As opposed to travelling "out of body" to a particular region/plane/ring: as they have been called in the past in more mystical circles.

From Adrian's post I realise I was wrong. The Astral, in mystical terms, is not just one Focus level (as previously assumed) but is a term that for the region that encompasses Monroe's Focus levels 10 to 26. Which is basically everyone who is existing in emotional interplay of one description or another.

I'm assuming then, where Adrian says, "Spirits have to arrive at the realisation that the materialism is an illusion" before they can progress higher. It's the same as us now thinking in terms of thought-fuelled emotion creating the circumstances that surround you; coupled with the realisation of the need to remain emotionally closed.

Yours,
Frank

[Gandalf]

I was interested in comparing Monroe's descriptions of the astral with Robert's.

Are they broadly compatible?

From what Frank and others describe, Monroe breaks the astral down into 'focuses' which seems a good way of describing different levels of the astral in modern terms, including the 'belief zones' all the way up to the 'true 'afterlife zone' of focus 27 and above.

How does this equate with robert's description of the higher realms.

Monroe's focus zones seem to describe different levels/focus points within the Astral realm, Robert goes further though and describes higher realms over and above the astral such as the buddhic and atmic dimesnsions which he says are NOT part of the astral.

However the atmic dimension which he describes as being the true 'spirit world' sounds similar to the description of the focus 27 on the astal realm but Robert believes this to be separate and above the astral realm.

Anyone have any ideas?

Douglas