Is astral body out during Lucid dream ?

[truth_seeker]

Is our astral body out during a Lucid dream (like in OBE/AP)?
Or is it just the same dreamscape (like usual dreams) played by subconscious, and we just feel it more clearly ?

If its out, whats the difference between a lucid dream Vs AP during experience (i.e. except how it starts) ?

[Stookie]

This has came up several times before, and no one really agrees. There are a myriad of viewpoints on the subject. I'd check them all out before assuming anything.

I believe them to be the same thing in the same focus of consciousness. Others believe an LD is a step below AP with less clarity. I guess it comes down to individual perception.

[Frozen Spirit]

Lucid dreaming always has some fogginess to it.  Even though when you are dreaming, things seem 100% clear, when you wake up you can definitely tell they were not.  From what I have read it seems that same fog isn't evident with an OBE and it truly clear.  I've had some very clear lucid dreams, but when I wake up, I definitely have no doubt they were dreams due to that little bit of fogginess in my memory.

[truth_seeker]

Ok, so it may or may not be the case. I then want to ask - what exactly is a dream ? Does it have any "real" siginificance or its just a playback by subcouncious of various things it percieves in councious state ?

[Stookie]

My lucid dreams tend to be very similar to my phasing with same clarity and recall. I rarely notice much difference, but perhaps my regular dreams are different too.

If lucid dreams and AP's are separated by clarity and fogginess, how do you differentiate a sluggish, foggy OBE vs. a mentally clear & lucid OBE. Under this definition, the sluggish OBE would just be a dream. Eh?

In the end really, it's all just consciousness and where we choose to focus our awareness within that consciousness. Trying to put labels on where we choose to focus is probably holding us back more than helping.

[Impermanence]

I agree with Stookie in the most part.

I think the difference is only in the degree of clarity and control you have over the experience. In the end thought, I think we are just exploring a part of our own consciousness. Thus, for me a dream and a OBE is mostly similar, only in the dream you filter out or color most of your perception.

[the-ownage]

This is a good question, and Stookie is right about there not being a definite answer for everyone. I can only speak for myself, but I don't believe we are in the astral realm when we are lucid dreaming. An OBE is ONLY (in my definition) when you leave your body, and still have control. I've had OBE's in my house, and I've also lucid dreamed in my house. I think lucid dreaming is more fantasy and unrealistic looking, almost like less details stand out like they do in an OBE, so clarity is "less" if that makes any sense.

[truth_seeker]

Since in dreams (even in lucid dream) we just observe or just follow whats being shown (we don't even question highly impossible events and things), and in OBE, we have the awareness to do things consciously, I feel they are different.

[Stookie]

I believe that the physical world and dream world are very similar, the main difference being a dream world is much more malleable due to its subjectivity rather than the objectiveness of the physical world. But both take place within the whole of consciousness. To view the physical as a "place" is the same illusion as not realizing in a dream that you're dreaming.

No matter what you're doing - LD, AP, OBE, Dreaming, sleeping, walking down the street - all take place within consciousness. A very quick "Frank's astral model":

Physical = F1
Dreams, LD's, subjective AP's = F2
Belief system afterlives = F3
Realization of illusion & other incomprehensible stuff = F4

[french_hustler]

I used to be confused whether I was lucid dreaming or OBE'ing.
Until the day I actually bounced out of my body.  When you are in the astral for real, you will know FOR SURE. 

Oh, and I read somewhere that when asleep, your astral body is resting just above your physical body.

[truth_seeker]

Need some help from all here.

Thanks french, but I am talking of the opposite case. I have had lucid dreams which totally appeared an OBE untill woke up and felt that it was just a lucid dream.

So is there a way by which one can know whether he had a lucid dream or an OBE ?

[Clarky]

At the moment I believe that your astral body floats in your physical body or just slightly above it whilst dreaming and this also applies when lucid dreaming.  I believe that unless you find yourself paralysed or in a state where you decide to project, then this will always be the case.  I think that sometimes though for whatever reason, your astral body can slip away from your physical body whilst dreaming and its sometimes possible to tune into where your astral body is located be it consciously or not and then start wondering about from there.  From studying the subject over the last few years and comparing with my own experiences, this seems to make the most sense to me.. for now.