Near-death study Dr sam parnia

[donnie]

At 18 hospitals in the U.S. and U.K., researchers have suspended pictures, face up, from the ceilings in emergency-care areas. The reason: to test whether patients brought back to life after cardiac arrest can recall seeing the images during an out-of-body experience.

People who have these near-death experiences often describe leaving their bodies and watching themselves being resuscitated from above, but verifying such accounts is difficult. The images would be visible only to people who had done that. This study started back in oct 08 And ended in oct 12. 20% of people have a
cardiac arrest have a NDE.

I think Dr sam parnia objective & made the study bulletproof. Over the last 3 year's there looked at 2500.heart attack cardiac arrest. 20% will say they had a NDE. The 500 should see the hidden images. If not why not.? W soon find out if NDE are real or false.

[Bedeekin]

It's a good idea from a physical reality standpoint but it's dubious do you not think?

After resuscitation the doctor asks.... "what were the numbers?"

"What numbers?"

"On top of the shelf"

"What?"

"we placed numbers on top of the shelf for you to see and report back... if you lived after your brief death"

"What?"

"we placed numbers on the top shelf to prove that NDEs are real"

"REAL?"

"Yes! Did you see any numbers?"

"Well I suppose I was pretty busy experiencing my whole life review so IT MIGHT HAVE KINDA SLIPPED MY MIND!"



They couldn't think of any other way than to get someone in what is the final moments of life to look at a poxy card while looking down on a medical team trying to resuscitate them?

This does not contribute to the reality of NDEs.

Interesting though. 

[donnie]

Why is it dubious for.? Alot of NDE describe see in doctors. And say you were doing this or you were doing that i was you. And Dr say's did you see that picture. And they did'nt. Why.?

[Bedeekin]

Not all describe seeing doctors. Also many times the viewpoint is seen from a stationary point in any part of the room.

If you were undergoing the experience of dying... and for a brief second or 30.. you found yourself staring down from the corner of the room... and all these people are rushing around trying to save the life of this body, which is you then realise is you... then you suddenly got whisked off down a long tunnel with a light at the end... you arrive at the destination and it's a being of light or a dead relative.. and they shpw you love warmth and compassion... and then you are given a life review (which is a common occurrence)... then you were told or thought you are not ready... then you find yourself back in bed... and probably not conscious straight away...

Do you think you could remember a sequence of numbers that was placed on a shelf somewhere?

NDEs aren't always like the example I gave above.

Also.. it's not as though they come out float above their body, then zip back in, to wake up afterwards. There is a massive profound experience between then.

They probably didnt see it because they had much better things to worry about.

[donnie]

Where you getting a sequence of numbers from.? It' a simple picture.?  I remember see you and nurse doing this it was all so clear. Can you describe crash cart next to me.It was in the room to next to me Yes. As clear as day. Could you tell me what it look like yes. What about the big picture on it.?

[desert-rat]

If you knew that you were dying or dead would you   hang around a hospital room to read some numbers , or maby go to the astral garden to meet with passed on loved ones ?    I dont think ever one choses to remember a N.D.E. on some unconscoious level .  There is a story of some one at a hospital that had a N.D.E. they saw a pair of shews on a ledge , later a janitor found them .  Many believe that we all go out of body at night during certain parts of sleep , but dont remember . The o.p. of this thread might want to read some of the other accounts of N.D.E.s there are quite a few .      desert rat

[Bedeekin]

Oh sorry... I'm getting mixed up with an OOBE test that was done that used a numbered card... that she got right btw. it's amazing how we make mistakes about relevant information in real life.

I still can't see how it proves in the afterlife. It may prove that people have a RTZ OOBE during the very first stages of death.

I still can't see how they would notice something so banal in the face of a life altering experience.

Here are some examples of NDEs

Dr. George Ritchie's near-death experience

"George leaves his body and sees it lying in his bed. He is not aware the dead body in his bed is his. Wanting eagerly to travel to Richmond, Virginia to start college, he finds himself flying in the air toward a city. He is not sure how he acquired these strange powers of flight and transparency. He arrives at a city and discovers he has lost his solidness. He flies back to the hospital and sees his lifeless body in the morgue and realizes he has died. "
http://www.near-death.com/ritchie.html



When all of Pam's vital signs were stopped, the doctor turned on a surgical saw and began to cut through Pam's skull. While this was going on, Pam reported that she felt herself "pop" outside her body and hover above the operating table. Then she watched the doctors working on her lifeless body for awhile. From her out-of-body position, she observed the doctor sawing into her skull with what looked to her like an electric toothbrush. Pam heard and reported later what the nurses in the operating room had said and exactly what was happening during the operation. At this time, every monitor attached to Pam's body registered "no life" whatsoever. At some point, Pam's consciousness floated out of the operating room and traveled down a tunnel which had a light at the end of it...
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html


Rev. George Rodonaia's Unusual NDE

The first thing I remember about my NDE is that I discovered myself in a realm of total darkness. I had no physical pain, I was still somehow aware of my existence as George, and all about me there was darkness, utter and complete darkness - the greatest darkness ever, darker than any dark, blacker than any black. This was what surrounded me and pressed upon me. I was horrified. I wasn't prepared for this at all. I was shocked to find that I still existed, but I didn't know where I was. The one thought that kept rolling through my mind was, "How can I be when I'm not?" That is what troubled me.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence10.html

Betty Eadie leaves her body through her chest and floats above her bed. Three hooded monk-like beings appear whom she identifies to be her guardian angels. They tell her that they have been with her for "eternities" and that she died prematurely. Concerned about her family that she left behind, she travels in spirit to her home to see them; but she discovers that she cannot be seen by them. Betty then returns to her body where her guardian angels are waiting for her.
http://www.near-death.com/eadie.html

Here is some further reading so that you know what I'm talking about..

http://icitizenpatriot.com/nde-stories/nde-archive/nde-archives-lists

[desert-rat]

This guy has done some N.D.E. work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Moody  http://www.lifeafterlife.com/    and there is are some more that you can find with a web search .  desert rat

[donnie]

 3 year's there looked at 2500.heart attack cardiac arrest. Only 20% will say they had a NDE. The 500 who had a NED beetween 80 & 142. will say they  remember being above there body's And looking down The images. Pictures have been set up for that.? And when interviewed will be asked what they remember. That's all it is. If it's not a false memory. If a NED is a real memory then the picture's should of be seen.

[Szaxx]

Ok maybe this so called test is done in a typical way of,
Work it out.
Parina
Invert the first and lose the last
Whats left 'about' is who's the test.

Think basic crossword.
Snd the name belongs to...

[desert-rat]

P.S. I think if the doctors told them " there are hidden objects in the room some where , if you do have a N.D.E. look for them and remember what they are ."  The people had no idea that a Dr. put a poster with a message on it some where for them to find .   Most people are going to watch the doctors .  desert rat

[Bedeekin]

3 year's there looked at 2500.heart attack cardiac arrest. Only 20% will say they had a NDE. The 500 who had a NED beetween 80 & 142. will say they  remember being above there body's And looking down The images. Pictures have been set up for that.? And when interviewed will be asked what they remember. That's all it is. If it's not a false memory. If a NED is a real memory then the picture's should of be seen.

No... there is no should!! These are peoples personal deaths. not some tenuous scientific test.

There is enough evidence already to prove some sort of existence of consciousness... You surely had no time to read the links I provided.

Read them...and then you have a valid argument and something to back it up. I'm not being difficult... I'm just saying it's not as black and white as that.

[donnie]

With no real proof. That's why this was set up for.? Google Dr sam parnia.

[desert-rat]

Hear is the wiki on Sam Parina http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia    There are some other sites on him . Many people that have had a N.D.E. that see loved ones , see them at 18 - 25 years of age not the age they last saw them , that does not make scence if it were just imagnation .  desert rat  
p.s. to the o.p. of this thread , maby you can learn to go out of body and see for your self , that is what this site , and many more are all about ! 

[Bedeekin]

The experiences themselves are life changing to those who experience them.

It doesn't matter one iota what science thinks or believes... No one deserves to 'know' that it is real or not other than those who experience it.

Ssaxx... I am crap at crosswords... I got... darin... then got lost after the bit with 'about'. 

[Szaxx]

Ok, Ill give you a helpful clue.
About, means its an anagram.
The clue is, its a million dollar question.


The basic info presented reminds me of 'the answer'.

[donnie]

I think amost die in would be life changing any way.?

[Szaxx]

Lost a post,mmmm.
About denotes an anagram.
Its a million dollar question.

[desert-rat]

You dont haft to die to astral project .  There are methods of medatation and self hypnosis .  On Sam Parina , I dont get the anagram part either , but I think he is a real person . desert rat

[Bedeekin]

Yes... totally donnie. So can you not see that picking and remembering a very unimportant detail whilst undergoing such a transformative experience would be very hit and miss?

I've read about Sam Parnia before.. he means well, but he is tackling it from the wrong side. I am just tackling this from one side also... assuming that this reality is solid. Working out that NDEs are real It's just not as simple as it seems because first 'real' has to be defined.

[donnie]

All his doing is see in if it's real or a false memory.

[Bedeekin]

I know. But the short sightedness of science as a fragmentary thing won't find any answers to NDEs or metaphysical reality.

Say one person gets it right... does this prove that NDEs are real?

[donnie]

The short sightedness of science.? 

[desert-rat]

Some things are hard to prove using science .  Donnie how old are you , and what part of the world are you in ?   Hear are some N.D.E. forums http://www.near-death-forums.com/  http://near-death.com/forum.html  http://neardeath.ipbhost.com/  http://curezone.com/forums/f.asp?f=206  http://www.experienceproject.com/groups/Had-A-Near-Death-Experience/574  http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/000/64.html  http://lifeafterdeath.com/near-death-experiences/  http://nhneneardeath.ning.com/forum  http://afterlifeforums.com/list.php/category/41-Near-Death-Experiences  http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/science-religion/139925-neurosurgeons-seven-day-near-death-experience.html     If some one broght back info from a N.D.E.  lets say grand maw had a numbered   Swiss bank act .  and she gave you the number , would that be proof ?  desert rat
p.s. I am a man , 55 , I live just west of Phoenix AZ U.S.A.

[Bedeekin]

The short sightedness of science.? 

When it comes to this subject... not the science that brings us microwave ovens, MP3 players and Furbees.