Obes are not Natural (?)

[weetabix]

Fearful, irresponsible and unaware...

Won't you really be normal like majorities !?

-Weeta

[Moonburn33]

do i need to point out the myriad unnatural things you use, including tools- such as spoons and forks?

[Moonburn33]

natural does not mean safe.

if you practice a form of energetic development sanely and in a balanced manner over many years, then it will yield results.

[Euphoric Sunrise]

Because people are told it isn't natural. They are told humans are not capable of such things, and so the idea is shunned. Children are told there is no such thing as "supernatural". It's part of the conditioning everybody goes through. Unfortunately the conditioning of the west often means we miss out on stuff like that.

[Kazbadan]

But there are many tribes aound the world, that live in contact with nature, and their people don tuse AP, only the xamans. In many cultures, ocidental, oriental, africans, etc, there is that idea of AP to be acomplished only be a few elected.

Why is that so?

[jilola]

quote:In many cultures, ocidental, oriental, africans, etc, there is that idea of AP to be acomplished only be a few elected

Well the last three words sum it up. Power and influence.
Suppress something while claiming the right to do it yourself and you have something to wield for fun and profit [8D]

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[narfellus]

Kazbadan, there are many ways to answer your question. Raising the energy levels and chakras and realizing ones true self is a very very old tradition. I'm not sure how common OBE's are, but i'm sure the trend is rising because of the internet phenomenon and books and the spiritual dirth of most people. They desperately want to Know God and the so-called Meaning of Life. Our society does not teach that very effectively, and leaves it up to religion and parents, who don't know all of the answers either. So, they hear about "spiritual enlightenment" and how easy it is, and they try it without understanding the implications of what they are doing.

Now, OBE's are natural in the sense that we all dream, our inner self uncoils every night and projects into the astral. Conscious control of this experience is hard to do. And yes, the experience can be dangerous because it is Man learning about Cosmic Lessons that they don't usually learn until after you die. It's like taking a glimpse into the afterlife without all of the tools to understand what you are looking at.

Shamans, naguals, spirit leaders, etc, from time before time have been people chosen to share what they know with others, for them to learn who and what they truly are. Some people i believe are naturally stronger and adapted to controlling their mind and body, and others aren't. Some people engage in such studies for Self-Enlightment, others engage for Self Gain: see the future, gamble on winning games, make money, talk to spirits...they see these abilites through the common human materialistic veil, and that effectively clouds the outcome and brings out their own weaknesses.

As far as an intermediary between the common people and the spiritual leader, yes, this is common. Maybe because it takes a lifetime of training to do it properly, probably many lifetimes. Inexperienced, unwise, impatient and rash people can EASILY lose their sanity by delving into techniques they are not capable of handling. How many people do you think try to OBE without even believing in God? I shudder to think. They are looking for God in places that they have no business being, because God is not there. He is within, just as He/She has always been.

Eh, post is getting long. Sorry.

[Kazbadan]

But what is the problem in making obes without believe in a God?! I dont believe in God (Bible god) because he seems to evil to be truth (another thread for itself), but even if weren´t that, i dont need to believe in a god. Budhistic teachings, teached me that. Why believe in a god if you and all of your surroundings are god by itself? I am God, so why should i adore God? No one should adore himself (by adore i mean to idolize). Instead there is only need for love for everyone, love without conditions. This kind of love excludes the need of a god, as an external being (by opposing with more oriental ideas in wich god is us).

[jilola]

Runlola: Hah! Never thought I'd see the day[] Last time you agreed with me, this time I with you.

The reason is indeed that of control and perpetuating a system which provides power and influence to some.

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Kazbadan]

What´s about you two Lola guys? Something is missing me....

[narfellus]

oh, i wasn't saying you have to believe in God to AP. I meant i think that lots of people use metaphysics to look for God, or prove to themselves that he/she exists. Or DISPROVE, if that's their gig. In my own opinion i think that developing ones psychic talent is deeply immeshed with spiritual talents: develop one and you're training the other too.

[narfellus]

and what i "shudder" to think about are the people with no spiritual beliefs at all that AP and get all kinds of negativity attracted to them and end up worse than before. Of course, that can happen to anyone, God believing or not.

[Kazbadan]

If obes are so natural as people say, why there are little people having it in a involuntary way? A good percentage of people with spontaneous obes are the ones suffering of insmonias or the like. Why this? Maybe obes are not real...maybe they are not so natural as people say...

Or maybe it is  a door dangerous to pass trough, only opened to a few elected people (maybe some other lucky guys).

What do you think about this ideas and about the fact that there are not so many spontaneous obes (in non believers or people that never heard about obeS) among people?