Physical planets with physical, intelligent beings

[Xanth]

The soul can be also tortured.

If you believe so.  Enjoy your tortured soul. 

[LightBeam]

The soul can be also tortured.

I have done many retrievals, and the only entities I needed to save these spirits from were themselves. No one was holding them hostages in dark environments. Their own beliefs and fears were creating the limits and immediate circumstances. I have never had to fight anyone in the astral in order to free myself or anyone else from something that it may have seemed against my or their wills. If you are afraid, then your frequency is extremely low, in that case if you are confronted by a negative energy, lets say external, you will not be able to shift higher because of your fear. If you are not afraid and know that light and love are most powerful, you will either simply shift away or send them love and they may accept if the time is right, or will not be able to stand it and will dissipate.

[Xanth]

For 34+ years now... that would also be my experience, Lightbeam. 

[LightBeam]

For 34+ years now... that would also be my experience, Lightbeam. 

Yes, I also want the inexperienced people who come here looking for answers and getting ready to explore, not to build fears based on earthly logic, because fears and limiting beliefs once established are very hard to concur, and may disable the capabilities of experiencing such a wonderful adventures.

[Lionheart]

Yes, I also want the inexperienced people who come here looking for answers and getting ready to explore, not to build fears based on earthly logic, because fears and limiting beliefs once established are very hard to concur, and may disable the capabilities of experiencing such a wonderful adventures.

I second this want. That's why I always try to quell any conversations of this type.

They do more harm than good. You are supposed to go into this practice with no expectations and then confront your fears. We know you can never really stop all of the fear completely. But understanding them and confronting them seems to dampen them quite a bit.

Being in the NPR from a point of view instead of a physical mindset makes it very hard to be attacked. Try stabbing light and see how that works out for you. 

[Xanth]

Awesomely put guys.

Couldn't have said it any better!

[AAAAAAAA]

Considering how you guys try and not think about this stuff with an earthly logic... how come you deny it just because you've never seen a soul tortured? Your reasons for denying that possibility is because you've never seen it happen in your 34+ years of "experience"? ... lol. That's cute. It sounds exactly like earthly logic to me. You are trying to justify against my "earthly logic"... with earthly logic. You are truly limited. All of us are. Being unlimited means that everything is possible. If you are saying that my scenario can't happen, you are are saying that you are limited....

[Xanth]

Considering how you guys try and not think about this stuff with an earthly logic... how come you deny it just because you've never seen a soul tortured? Your reasons for denying that possibility is because you've never seen it happen in your 34+ years of "experience"? ... lol. That's cute. It sounds exactly like earthly logic to me. You are trying to justify against my "earthly logic"... with earthly logic. You are truly limited. All of us are. Being unlimited means that everything is possible. If you are saying that my scenario can't happen, you are are saying that you are limited....

Believe whatever you want to believe.   As I said, enjoy your self created evisceration.

You are your own worst enemy. 

[AAAAAAAA]

Believe whatever you want to believe.   As I said, enjoy your self created evisceration.

You are your own worst enemy. 

Think of it more as a "workout" rather than me being my own enemy. You can always look at it like that, but the only time I give myself a hard time is when I will learn from it. Sometimes making things easy on yourself is the thing that is harmful to you.

[Lionheart]

Sometimes making things easy on yourself is the thing that is harmful to you.

It's not in simply making things better for yourself. It becomes truth to you only when you are ready to be shown it to be.

[AAAAAAAA]

It's not in simply making things better for yourself. It becomes truth to you only when you are ready to be shown it to be.

The "truth" seems to be a subjective thing. So regardless of who is "ready" or not, the truth will always be different for each individual.

EDIT : you shouldn't twist my words. I never once said "better", I just said easier.

[Rakkso]

Considering how you guys try and not think about this stuff with an earthly logic... how come you deny it just because you've never seen a soul tortured? Your reasons for denying that possibility is because you've never seen it happen in your 34+ years of "experience"? ... lol. That's cute. It sounds exactly like earthly logic to me. You are trying to justify against my "earthly logic"... with earthly logic. You are truly limited. All of us are. Being unlimited means that everything is possible. If you are saying that my scenario can't happen, you are are saying that you are limited....

I would accept this happens but only If seen from the 'my big TOE' point of view, with his PhysicalMatterRealities, PMR and PMR(n). N being any real number for the purpose of nuumbering realities. Non-PhisicalMatterReality., NPMRk, k being any real number. This means that there would be many almost and infinite numer more GOOD tottaly different kinds of realities, as many totaly random lower realities. So there could be another different lower NPMR experience were, 'soul torture' can occur, but certainly that'd be something completely independent for all of us. Which means that maybe you go to the place you blindly believe to go, were 'soul torture' can happen to you, if you feel you have been bad boy of course.lol.

The thing to dominate this is simple, change your beliefs, change your reality, since you say 'we are all infinite' i assume you perhaps know how each of us can go in the grander spiritual stair with its ups and downs. And how to simply Set the direction.

You can see this truth in many Succesfull Rich People as a real fact, most of them write books, take as an example Napoleon Hill if you will.

If you cant understand this, then you cant know it to be true. Perhaps its too early to start assuming that, that which happens in your dreams is hurting you and making you negative and realize its all just nightmarish stuff. (auto-subcouncious negative thought due to constant awaken negativite thought)

[Szaxx]

AAAA can you define your meaning of 'soul' within the context of your replies?
You have some valid points and some confusing one's too.

[AAAAAAAA]

AAAA can you define your meaning of 'soul' within the context of your replies?
You have some valid points and some confusing one's too.

Well, when most people think of themselves, they are thinking that what they see is truly them. I would argue that your body, is not you. Your SOUL is you. To define your soul, I would tell you that you are not Szaxx, but that you hear and see everything that Szaxx does.

This next part is kind of a "gray area" if you will. Of course, I'm not saying this is fact, because I cannot really prove it. But a while back when I trained my eyes to be sensitive toward different light (speaking of auras) , I noticed that I was able to see auras, as well as the astral body. So I would also argue that your "soul" also takes the form of its own body.

[Astralzombie]

Well, when most people think of themselves, they are thinking that what they see is truly them. I would argue that your body, is not you. Your SOUL is you. To define your soul, I would tell you that you are not Szaxx, but that you hear and see everything that Szaxx does.

This next part is kind of a "gray area" if you will. Of course, I'm not saying this is fact, because I cannot really prove it. But a while back when I trained my eyes to be sensitive toward different light (speaking of auras) , I noticed that I was able to see auras, as well as the astral body. So I would also argue that your "soul" also takes the form of its own body.

I think you will find that most of us here agree in large part with what you are saying in this post. But when you invoke the idea that souls can be tortured through external means (vs. self imposed), then you start to lose people. I'm not saying that it isn't possible but I've never seen it and other than you and religious zealots, I don't know anyone who believes it. I realize that just because we don't believe in something doesn't mean that it's not possible.

But you made the claim that souls can be tortured and and I would really like to know how you came about this "fact". Did you personally see it or was it written in a book by an author that you happen to place a lot of trust in. And if you did see it, is there no room for the possibility that you were misinterpreting what you saw? Remember that what you see in the astral is based on what is transmitted as well as what is received. A corruption in either will result in faulty communication.

edit: Case in point- You seem to react with hostility every time someone says something contradictory to what you believe.

[Szaxx]

Ok. Your interpretation of the soul is the 'you' within and this 'personal unity' is an individuality of being, whether you are experiencing physical, astral or energetic environments.
It's essentially a singularity of concious awareness.
Is this what you are saying?

[AAAAAAAA]

I think you will find that most of us here agree in large part with what you are saying in this post. But when you invoke the idea that souls can be tortured through external means (vs. self imposed), then you start to lose people. I'm not saying that it isn't possible but I've never seen it and other than you and religious zealots, I don't know anyone who believes it. I realize that just because we don't believe in something doesn't mean that it's not possible.

But you made the claim that souls can be tortured and and I would really like to know how you came about this "fact". Did you personally see it or was it written in a book by an author that you happen to place a lot of trust in. And if you did see it, is there no room for the possibility that you were misinterpreting what you saw? Remember that what you see in the astral is based on what is transmitted as well as what is received. A corruption in either will result in faulty communication.

edit: Case in point- You seem to react with hostility every time someone says something contradictory to what you believe.

It's not that I react that way every time someone says something contradictory, it just feels as if the same members constantly choose me as a target. Which is fine, I guess. There are plenty of people who disagree with me, more than which have been responding to any of my posts. If I was really a hostile person, I could react to them as much as I wanted to, but ultimately... it's a trivial issue. I guess the reason why I'm still here is because discussions are still fun, regardless if anyone agrees with me or not. I still DO read everything that people message me, along with any posts that are given into response of me previous posts.

In response, I would have to ask you what you mean by "external means"? I am referring to the soul being tortured by something or someone who inhabits the same plane that the soul can freely travel in. I guess everyone on this forum would call in the NPR or something. Yeah, it's possible that I could misinterpret something. But usually it's kind of hard to misinterpret something when it's a first-hand experience. Or rather, I should say that it is interpreted in a more personal way. It's really a subjective matter. I'm also not really a fan of taking serious thought into authors. Yes, I do think about certain authors sometimes, but I like first hand experiences better than reading from books.

Ok. Your interpretation of the soul is the 'you' within and this 'personal unity' is an individuality of being, whether you are experiencing physical, astral or energetic environments.
It's essentially a singularity of concious awareness.
Is this what you are saying?

Yes. And just like you can get hurt in your physical conscious awareness, you can be hurt in spirit too.

[DarkHorizon]

A limited being conjecturing the limitless. I'd like to know how that would be possible... Sure you can draw analogies, person A in the gym can lift a 100 pound weight while person B can only lift a 70 pound weight. But then you think for example, what if person A could lift infinitely sized weights and person B could only lift 70 pounds. Well, I point out that in between the gulf of 0 and 70 there is infinity.

[Xanth]

It's not that I react that way every time someone says something contradictory, it just feels as if the same members constantly choose me as a target. Which is fine, I guess. There are plenty of people who disagree with me, more than which have been responding to any of my posts. If I was really a hostile person, I could react to them as much as I wanted to, but ultimately... it's a trivial issue. I guess the reason why I'm still here is because discussions are still fun, regardless if anyone agrees with me or not. I still DO read everything that people message me, along with any posts that are given into response of me previous posts.

In response, I would have to ask you what you mean by "external means"? I am referring to the soul being tortured by something or someone who inhabits the same plane that the soul can freely travel in. I guess everyone on this forum would call in the NPR or something. Yeah, it's possible that I could misinterpret something. But usually it's kind of hard to misinterpret something when it's a first-hand experience. Or rather, I should say that it is interpreted in a more personal way. It's really a subjective matter. I'm also not really a fan of taking serious thought into authors. Yes, I do think about certain authors sometimes, but I like first hand experiences better than reading from books.

Yes. And just like you can get hurt in your physical conscious awareness, you can be hurt in spirit too.

Let's try to get to the meat and potatoes of this.  Perhaps we can put these fears at ease.
Exactly what kind of torturing are you eluding to that your soul can have done to it?  What do you feel can happen to your soul?

[AAAAAAAA]

Let's try to get to the meat and potatoes of this.  Perhaps we can put these fears at ease.
Exactly what kind of torturing are you eluding to that your soul can have done to it?  What do you feel can happen to your soul?

Why potatoes? Anyway, the soul can be "held". Apart from that, a soul can be broken and left unable to function rationally.

[Xanth]

Why potatoes?

Just a couple things I love. 

Anyway, the soul can be "held". Apart from that, a soul can be broken and left unable to function rationally.

I'm not exactly sure what those statements mean.

You mean that someone can take your soul (or I call it "consciousness") and while you're "out of body" can "trap" it so that you can not return?  Is that what you mean?

And I'm unsure what it means to break a soul and leave it unable to function rationally.

If you could confirm the above and clarify the rest a bit more?  We might be able to assist in alleviating this particular set of fears you have. 

[AAAAAAAA]

Just a couple things I love. 
I'm not exactly sure what those statements mean.

You mean that someone can take your soul (or I call it "consciousness") and while you're "out of body" can "trap" it so that you can not return?  Is that what you mean?

And I'm unsure what it means to break a soul and leave it unable to function rationally.

If you could confirm the above and clarify the rest a bit more?  We might be able to assist in alleviating this particular set of fears you have. 

I don't really know how else to say it. Someone can create a harmful bond with you, and you wouldn't even know it.

To break a soul is just like breaking people in this more physical reality. It means to damage them. To get inside of their head and to screw around with someone in such a way that they are left with long lasting pain.

[Xanth]

I don't really know how else to say it. Someone can create a harmful bond with you, and you wouldn't even know it.

To break a soul is just like breaking people in this more physical reality. It means to damage them. To get inside of their head and to screw around with someone in such a way that they are left with long lasting pain.

And where did you hear that this is something that you should fear?

[AAAAAAAA]

And where did you hear that this is something that you should fear?

I can't answer that This isn't the right place.

[Xanth]

I can't answer that This isn't the right place.

Ok then. 

Let's try a different angle.

I have to assume that you're only "believing" this source that tells you this information then.

Now, obviously I'm not offended if you want to believe something someone else says over us.  However, what we teach here is similar to Tom Campbell... don't simply believe someone (your source, or even us) when they tell you something or when you read something.  What you want to aim for is DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE of it.  So for the time being... just put what has been said in a maybe category until the time comes that you have enough personal experience to "know" one way or the other.

This is why we teach.  Or at least this is why *I* teach.  I teach so that you may learn to have your own experiences.  Only by having your own experiences are you going to be able to "KNOW" instead of simply believing.