Practicing but not getting too far

[Bluebird]

Hello astral people!

I've been reading the forum for about 8 months now. I have become a Frank K devotee. I've read pretty much all there is to find on Frank. I've read many of Xanth's articles. watched a lot of you tube stuff on AP. Read most of the Monroe stuff. So "technically" I know whats up. "Experientially" I don't know whats up. 

I've had a couple mild experiences (one short lucid dream, One SP experience) since reading the forum. I've been practicing the wave 1 CD focus 10, with a mental rundown for about six months now. Probably about three times a week.
I usually practice at around 5:00pm when I get home from work. I have also tried a couple times in the early morning at around 6:00am. I go to sleep at around midnight and get about 6-7 hours of sleep on the week days. I sleep in on the weekends and can get up to 10 hours of sleep. This doesn't seem to make a difference with the way I experience my practice sessions.

I have an office job so my body doesn't get a lot of physical work out time. But I'm pretty healthy for a male in his 40's.

I do dream pretty much every night and make an effort to remember my dreams and mentally step through them after I wake up. I don't keep a journal as I wake up early for work and don't have enough time. I know I could make the time but...

Problem is I can't seem to stay conscious and always fall asleep. Although I feel like I'm becoming more aware of my imagination by repeating the rundown, I still cant sense the transition point between wake and sleep. I guess I've always been a heavy sleeper. I have not lost interest in AP but it just doesn't seem like I'm getting any closer to anything.

Any advice for a heavy sleeper?

Thanks!

[Astralsuzy]

Are you too comfortable.   If I am in a comfortable bed and lying in a comfortable position I often fall asleep.   It is better to be somewhere where you are not too comfortable. 

[Bluebird]

Yes, I've read about that, During the day I usually practice in my daughters bed because its different than my bed and its in a more quiet part of the house. But I'm still very comfortable.

I don't understand how I could relax my body if its uncomfortable? Seems like I wouldn't be able to focus away from the body.

Well I'm not having much luck now so I will give a chair a try. Thanks!

[Astralsuzy]

Your daughters bed is still a bed.   Of course you know that but it is still comfortable and not advisable to use.   I would not make yourself too uncomfortable because being too uncomfortable can make it hard to ap.   If the chair is comfortable to sit on then that is OK.   I have ap lots of times when I am not comfortable.   The thing is to not think about that you are not comfortable.    Ignore the uncomfortable feeling and get on with it otherwise you may not ap.   If it does not work keep persevering with it.   Practice makes perfect.  If you are still falling asleep I have other tips for you but start with this first. 

[Lumaza]

 Hello Bluebird and welcome!

it sounds like "Wave 1" CD isn't working for you. Time to find a new technique. Have a look around this Forum, there are some great techniques to aid you in losing your physical focus. If you are good with visuals, this link will give you some helpful exercises. I find that practicing being "non physical" period during the day can be very productive with the Art of Projection.

There are other great links in this thread to help you as well. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/the_doorway-t46013.0.html

Lastly, what really stuck out to me from our initial post was this line  "I don't keep a journal as I wake up early for work and don't have enough time. I know I could make the time but..."

Now what would happen if Eddie Van Halen, Eric Clapton or Jimmy Hendrix would have said "I know I could make the time but"? People can and will always make the time if they are truly serious about their Art.   This is all mental conditioning. Anything that happens while you attempt to project is positive progress.

I found great success when I was new by just staring at a "candle flame" for 15-20 minutes in a dark room. I then blew the candle out, shut my eyes and just noticed the "imprint" of that flame in my visual. If it disappeared, as it would, I would bring it back. The next thing I knew my body was vibrating and I could swear a Helicopter was landing on my roof, the sound was that loud. It scared me, but I couldn't wait to do it again.

The next time I attempted to AP, I used the same visual and soon I was looking at my room or a representation of it with my eyes completely closed. I did this all by sitting in a comfortable chair. I never attempted to AP from my bed in my when I was new to consciously aware projection. But, I have had many many bouts of SP and have exited my body during those.

[Bluebird]

@Astralsuzy
Just wanted to know if you sat in a chair with your head/back supported like a lazyboy or if you sat upright without your head supported like in meditation?

@Lumaza
Thanks for your welcome!
I've been reading the forum long enough to know someone was going to bust me on the time thing:) Whats funny is I actually play guitar!

You kind of answered my question to Astralsuzy but also brought up a bigger question. I have done a fair amount of meditation and would often get to a very light tingly state but never sounds or heavy vibrations.

I'm a little confused at what the state of mind needs to be to project. I kind of thought you needed to be somewhat asleep and that along with some kind of visualizations was the difference between meditation and AP.

It sounds more like AP can occur with just meditation and some sort of imagining. I'm just realizing this after reading your and Astralsuzy's replies.

Is it just that there is a loophole in the state between waking and sleep where you can accidentally project? Making it more accessible for people who haven't put in all the concentration work that someone who can just sit in a chair and shift they're focus has?

[Lumaza]

I'm a little confused at what the state of mind needs to be to project. I kind of thought you needed to be somewhat asleep and that along with some kind of visualizations was the difference between meditation and AP.

It sounds more like AP can occur with just meditation and some sort of imagining. I'm just realizing this after reading your and Astralsuzy's replies.

Is it just that there is a loophole in the state between waking and sleep where you can accidentally project? Making it more accessible for people who haven't put in all the concentration work that someone who can just sit in a chair and shift they're focus has?

The "state of mind" you should have is just to create and maintain a focus outside of this physical reality. Meditation is a great way. From what I understand from people that teach meditation, it is important to quiet the mind. But they also teach that when you get "hypnagogic imagery", that you should ignore it and stay in the moment. When I attempt to project anytime I see any imagery I allow it to build and take me deeper. I never fight it. The deeper it brings you, the less focus you have on your physical body.

Some people do experience a "conscious loophole". This could be known as "mind awake/body asleep", which is what you are trying to do to project in general. To do that you simply stay consciously aware as your physical body goes to sleep.


A accidental conscious projection can be initiated by inducing a bout of SP. To do this you have a "dreamless" one hour pre-nap about 3 hours before you go to sleep. This will interrupt your REM sleep and cause you become more aware. You will then awaken in SP about 3-4 hours after you go to sleep. Sometimes that SP can come quicker then that though.
Bedeekin spoke about this method in this thread here. He calls it "Pre-Sleep Induction".
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_astral_consciousness/fantastic_obe_technique_bedeekins_method-t31819.0.html

[Astralsuzy]

I always have head support.   I would not like to ap and find when I wake up my head has leaned over and I have a sore neck.   Lying down in a recliner is a good way to relax without getting too relaxed.    It does not have to be a recliner or course.

[Bluebird]

I've read the Bedeekin post before. I had forgotten about it. Its funny there is so much information on AP, so many techniques, its seems impossible theres not one method out there that works for everybody. Or a pill to take. The first and only time I had a lucid dream was recently after I had a wisdom tooth pulled and I was doped up on pain killers. I realized what was happening in the dream because I had been reading this forum. I even looked at my hands at which time I woke up.
Point being, I thought I had figured out some magic formula with the Codeine pills. BUT I was unable to lucid dream again even when taking the pills and setting up the same circumstances surrounding the fist experience. Very frustrating. I did learn that I was going to have to work at this.

Last night I tried the Bedeekin method and I had some success. I feel I got very close to a solid Focus 10 but not quite. My body felt like a lite, blown up balloon. I was letting a voice run in my head saying random words, whatever came to me. I just observed the words and didn't judge them. That was kind of hard because they got pretty weird at times. At moments here and there a strong image would present it self in the back of my mind, like phone poles with wires, or a snow capped mountain with a lake at the foot of it. At some point I slipped under. But I feel this may be the method for me. I'm still going to try the rundown sitting in a comfortable chair.

Thanks to both of you for the help. Even though I read about AP all the time, actually talking to real people with experience opens new doors...

[Lumaza]

 Bluebird, here's a good simple exercise that you can practice daily. This will eventually teach you how to have conscious projection from a totally awakened state.

Pick any "simple" visual target or tactile sensation that you wish. You don't want to make it complicated or complexed at all. Close your eyes and feel or see it. Hold that sensation or visual as long as you can. When it disappears, bring it back.  Do this for 10 cycles. Now write down your results.

Tomorrow you are going to do the same thing, but this time you will hold your focus there longer. The next day longer. Write down what you are experiencing, no matter how trivial you think they may be.

In the beginning you will be able to hold your "complete" focus on your chosen task for only a couple of seconds. After a week, maybe a minute. But then you will find it gets easier and now when you close your eyes, something is already there.

After a couple of weeks when you do this, if the scene you choose starts to "morph" into something else, go with the flow. Just passively observe whatever new is happening and allow it to bring you deeper.

This really helps you open your mind to other forms of awareness as well. Like for instance why I used the analogy above about famed Guitarists. On some level I knew you would understand that.  

[Bluebird]

Thanks Lumaza, I'm going to try that. Like I said I used to meditate pretty often to I'm use to concentrating on keeping a blank mind and letting thoughts slip by. But I've never tried holding an image. Those couple images I saw last night had a more 3D quality than my usual imagination projects. So I kind of get the gist of where I'm trying to go with this. It just seems so impossible that that my imagination can become something other than a blurry dream. Anything I normally think about is presented to my minds eye as if looking through a long pipe. Only parts of the scene in my mind can be in focus, and only for a moment or two.

So your saying all this AP stuff is just trying to focus, keeping your attention on, and concentrating on what is in your minds eye until it becomes real? Or from a physical standpoint, until it is perceived as real?

Strange. Its like the mind is always perceiving the physical but if you train it to perceive itself...there's some sort of feedback loop created that sends the mind spinning off alone.

[Lumaza]

Those couple images I saw last night had a more 3D quality than my usual imagination projects.

That's the progress I am speaking of. The 3D imagery shows you you "are" projecting.

So your saying all this AP stuff is just trying to focus, keeping your attention on, and concentrating on what is in your minds eye until it becomes real? Or from a physical standpoint, until it is perceived as real?

You are trying to achieve a non physical focus "until" the scene becomes "real" Example, I start out shooting an imaginary basketball. Pretty soon I see a hoop that the ball is going in. Then I see the person who that is passing the ball back to me. Pretty soon I am in a game of 5 on 5.

Do you see my point here? All I did was start with the simple repetitive act of shooting an imaginary ball into the darkness before my eyes. The rest of just morphed into my vision. I didn't question it. I didn't look back to see what my physical body was doing. I just joined the scene at hand and enjoyed it. I left the questions for later.

[Astralsuzy]

That is a great suggestion Lumaza.   Thanks for that.    I get impatient if I do not see things immediately.    I will start practicing and I will start making it longer.   I will try not to expect to see thing immediately.   It has also given me another idea.   I do not think I snore but I hear snoring sounds when I am practicing to ap.   My husband said I am not snoring.   When I hear the sounds I will start imagining something.   

[ThaomasOfGrey]

I have heard the snoring sounds before. I was alone at the time so I couldn't be sure if it was me or not. It is probably a sign that you are close to transition.

[Astralsuzy]

 ThaomasOfGrey it is definitely a sign that you can ap from it.   If it does not work, you are very close to ap.   You have to keep persevering with it.   I was not sure if I could ap when I heard myself snore.    I tried to ap and I was able to.   I persevered with it and I did it.   I have ap about three times when I heard myself snore.   I heard myself snore last night but I did not persevere with it.   Since I have been determined to ap I have been hearing myself snore lots of times.   

[Bluebird]

Just back to report some success with all this. I can't say that I have been practicing the techniques in this thread to the tee, but I have been very aware of them continually and most nights will practice some form of visualization and body relaxation before going to bed. I will do the same thing if I wake in the middle of the night upon going back to sleep. I really kind of abandoned the wave one CD method and all other methods in general. I just decided to relax and let my body and mind make its own technique. Just kind of stay aware of what I'm trying to achieve and keep exploring the space in my non physical mind. I don't know if that makes any sense but it seemed to have worked.

So a couple of nights ago I became conscious in a dream and it was very powerful and exciting. It didn't last for that long but it was definitely a big happening for me. As the days go by the memory of it becomes more and more like just another dream but I know I was lucid.

What I learned from all this, is that just staying aware of the possibility of non physical awareness, can lead to being able to take advantage of the situation where it is possible.

Physically I might have been primed because I had taken a nap earlier in the day, and went to bed a little earlier than usual that night. I was also doing physical things around the house that day. So it seemed my body was exercised and well rested. The lucid dream happened at round 6 in the morning.

Also one other thing to note is that I am on the antidepressant, Lexipro. I was worried that it could affect my ability to do this, but apparently not.

Thanks for all the help and I will continue to report any more experiences!

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Good progress, the memories of lucid dreams do tend to fade a bit, even if you log them. I have started to take notice of the surrounding events of a lucid dream to find any patterns. My first suspicion is that I cannot be too tired, if I am it is more likely I will sleep right through the night.

I tend to become fully aware towards the end of a dream and I usually wake up in the early hours when it happens. The trigger is probably the increasing need to go the bathroom and how much this effect rouses awareness compared to how tired you are.

It can be really good as a reliable trigger, but it has a really big downside in that you cannot effectively utilize the drowsy state to re-enter a dream. My first focus upon waking is usually going to be the bathroom.

The passive approach to conscious projection can be effective. I have phased over many times using that technique. It doesn't take all that long, I have got there in as little as 5 minutes. The only downside with this approach is that you have to be really on to it to successfully complete the transition because the difference between being passive and something happening is so jarring.

[Bluebird]

I tend to become fully aware towards the end of a dream and I usually wake up in the early hours when it happens. The trigger is probably the increasing need to go the bathroom and how much this effect rouses awareness compared to how tired you are.

This is pretty much exactly what happened to me. It was towards the end of a dream that I transitioned to being aware and the situation totally changed and I was in control. I did wake up to go to the bathroom but I didn't have to go really bad. I can see how this type of stimulation may wake the consciousness just enough to become aware.

So I can see how a lot of techniques are geared towards stimulating the body just enough for the awareness to happen. Just a poke at the right time in the morning.
Another thing that could be a possibility is that my dog sleeps at our feet in the bed and often flinches and moves a bit during the night. That could also be a stimulus waking the body a bit.

Gives me an idea for a cool little device to give you that poke at the right time! Possibly a soft wristband or ankle bracelet that has a small cellphone type vibrator inside it hooked up to an alarm clock. you could set it to vibrate for a couple seconds at a certain time in the morning.

Alright you heard it here first folks!!! "The Lucid Dream Bracelet" just $19.99!!!!

Actually you could do this if your cell phone has a "duration" setting for its alarm. Mine doesn't but I'd imagine some do. Or perhaps there's an alarm app with that functionality. Just put it in your sweatpants/pajama pocket or stuff the phone in your pillow.